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Post by justiceseeker on May 14, 2021 3:57:04 GMT -6
Anybody care to guess how many members of the Twenty Two Disciples Of Hell are still alive? That's an interesting question, GV
I wonder how many SOS researchers/fanatics have tried to assemble a list of the "22 Disciples" names over time!
Your question brought to mind something interesting that Alphonse, over on the Kidkenoma blog, wrote a couple of years ago (I don't know if Alphonse is here on this board also. It would be GREAT, if so!)
Here is what Alphonse wrote then:
"And I always wonder, did the SOS cult actually refer to themselves as “The Children”? If so, I wonder if any of the “children” might have had a moment of clarity about their own future. The main distinguishing feature of the god Moloch, the cult name allegedly used by Mr Real Estate, is that Moloch was known to preside over the sacrifice of children. And indeed it looks like at least 21 of the 22 Disciples of Hell, and quite a few bit players on the sidelines have been eliminated, and then Moloch himself.
In summary, an operation was set up dealing porn (including snuff movies), prostitutes, and drugs, all in fairly sizable quantities whereby a great deal of revenue was generated and laundered, and then the whole thing was shut down, using members of the cult to eliminate other members of the cult till then there were none, including, finally, Mr Real Estate himself."
I went and read that Kidkenoma blog piece about Howell to see if the apparent discrepancy between Howell's age at death and the purported age of "Mr. Real Estate" at death could be reconciled. It wasn't. After reading the post and numerous comments and replies, though, I have two thoughts; 1) I felt like I needed a shower; and 2) A psychiatrist would have a field day and could make a full-time career out of some of the personalities behind the comments. And someone using the handle "Aquarius Hador" is posting comments? That's interesting, at least...
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Post by bustedflush on May 14, 2021 8:18:38 GMT -6
Brother John has quickly become one of my favorite characters. I am working on a new video about his map of the Wahlstrom murder at Van Cortlandt Park. There will be some very interesting new tidbits about Karen that I've come to learn from her old students from the early 60's, including one that was very good friends with her. Just watched the vids, great job, the Wahlstrom stuff is real head scratching and gut wrenching RIP. I wish all this technology was around 20 years ago, my family comes from Yonkers a few even owned bars(not the Emerald Isle) and if I new all this new info back then I would have grilled my grand parents and aunts/uncles. I remember reading TUE in the late '80's and asking a few questions. Apparently Untermeyer was the worst kept secret. It's been so many years no one left to ask. Some of the places they lived and owned don't even exist anymore, all plowed/rebuilt over. Bit of a shame MT kept so much close to the vest. Even if there was a simple message board set up in the 90's might have helped. Yonkers the city of hills, where nothing is on the level.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 14, 2021 10:58:47 GMT -6
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ace
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Post by ace on May 14, 2021 16:48:32 GMT -6
The part about buying up liquor licenses was interesting. More territory means you could move a lot more bad stuff.
The opening interview with Berkowitz talking about making way for the Antichrist made me think of the letter Manny mentioned where a fifteen year old Michael Carr was concerning himself with world government.
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mike23
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Post by mike23 on May 14, 2021 22:56:29 GMT -6
As far as the # of shooters goes,I always thought it was seven.Berkowitz for Lauria and also Suriani/Esau.John Carr for Lomino/Demasi.Michael Carr for Placido/Lupo."Manson II"for Freund.The North Dakota gunman for Moskowitz.That would be 5. Here's where maybe I've been wrong all these years-for some reason I always thought the Denaro and Voskerichian shootings were done by 2 different women which would take the total to 7.I dont remember ever seeing in print,or hearing in any interviews,of anyone,it was the same woman in both cases.Maybe somebody can recall if there was any information suggesting one woman did those 2 shootings.Thanx.
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Post by Omega on May 15, 2021 6:19:26 GMT -6
As far as the # of shooters goes,I always thought it was seven.Berkowitz for Lauria and also Suriani/Esau.John Carr for Lomino/Demasi.Michael Carr for Placido/Lupo."Manson II"for Freund.The North Dakota gunman for Moskowitz.That would be 5. Here's where maybe I've been wrong all these years-for some reason I always thought the Denaro and Voskerichian shootings were done by 2 different women which would take the total to 7.I dont remember ever seeing in print,or hearing in any interviews,of anyone,it was the same woman in both cases.Maybe somebody can recall if there was any information suggesting one woman did those 2 shootings.Thanx. You are not alone, Mike, I always thought, for years, it was seven overall shooters based on that chart breakdown in "The Ultimate Evil" and Maury's "Inside Edition" interviews with Berkowitz.
The updated Maury, through Detective Marcos Quinones, information (revealed in the Josh Z. podcast) has six shooters. He names Berkowitz, the Carr brothers and Bill Mentzer. He says a woman was a shooter. He tells Josh two names, who are bleeped out on the podcast, one who is that woman's name and both suspects are still alive. That's six. OK, plausible, if Denaro and Voskerichian are the same shooter (a woman).
Detective Kevin Murphy is at five shooters. This is where it gets interesting. He doesn't name names, nor does he allude to it being he has identified only five shooters, but there maybe others unknown. He says five shooters. You got to figure he agrees with Berkowitz and the Carr brothers. It is not clear if Murphy agrees with Mentzer. So, if Mentzer is not in Murphy's equation, who are the two remaining shooters who did the Denaro, Freund, Voskerichian and the Moskowitz/Violante shootings?
All this goes to show, and this is also evident in the discussions we have been having here on the boards with the whole "Mr. Real Estate"/"Mr. D."/"Donovan" thing, is we are no closer to identifying the players in "The Ultimate Evil" than when we first finished reading it in 1987 or 1993 or 1999 or........ We are still running around in circles, trying to figure things out. You would think, here in 2021, some of this stuff would have concrete answers by now. But, no. Seems there are even more questions than answers.
Maybe that last line that Maury wrote in "The Ultimate Evil", sums it up best, the confusion and frustration all of us feel, who have tried to figure things out over the years on this case -
"It is the sound of America screaming."
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ace
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Post by ace on May 15, 2021 7:19:38 GMT -6
We have a better understanding of the operation but I don’t feel things are wrapped up in the least.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 15, 2021 10:49:14 GMT -6
And remember, just because the shots didn't look well-aimed does NOT prove, in any way whatsoever, that the shooter was a "woman." THAT is one of those unwarranted "assumptions" we've been hearing so much about.
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Post by justiceseeker on May 15, 2021 15:24:51 GMT -6
As far as the # of shooters goes,I always thought it was seven.Berkowitz for Lauria and also Suriani/Esau.John Carr for Lomino/Demasi.Michael Carr for Placido/Lupo."Manson II"for Freund.The North Dakota gunman for Moskowitz.That would be 5. Here's where maybe I've been wrong all these years-for some reason I always thought the Denaro and Voskerichian shootings were done by 2 different women which would take the total to 7.I dont remember ever seeing in print,or hearing in any interviews,of anyone,it was the same woman in both cases.Maybe somebody can recall if there was any information suggesting one woman did those 2 shootings.Thanx. You are not alone, Mike, I always thought, for years, it was seven overall shooters based on that chart breakdown in "The Ultimate Evil" and Maury's "Inside Edition" interviews with Berkowitz.
The updated Maury, through Detective Marcos Quinones, information (revealed in the Josh Z. podcast) has six shooters. He names Berkowitz, the Carr brothers and Bill Mentzer. He says a woman was a shooter. He tells Josh two names, who are bleeped out on the podcast, one who is that woman's name and both suspects are still alive. That's six. OK, plausible, if Denaro and Voskerichian are the same shooter (a woman).
Detective Kevin Murphy is at five shooters. This is where it gets interesting. He doesn't name names, nor does he allude to it being he has identified only five shooters, but there maybe others unknown. He says five shooters. You got to figure he agrees with Berkowitz and the Carr brothers. It is not clear if Murphy agrees with Mentzer. So, if Mentzer is not in Murphy's equation, who are the two remaining shooters who did the Denaro, Freund, Voskerichian and the Moskowitz/Violante shootings?
All this goes to show, and this is also evident in the discussions we have been having here on the boards with the whole "Mr. Real Estate"/"Mr. D."/"Donovan" thing, is we are no closer to identifying the players in "The Ultimate Evil" than when we first finished reading it in 1987 or 1993 or 1999 or........ We are still running around in circles, trying to figure things out. You would think, here in 2021, some of this stuff would have concrete answers by now. But, no. Seems there are even more questions than answers.
Maybe that last line that Maury wrote in "The Ultimate Evil", sums it up best, the confusion and frustration all of us feel, who have tried to figure things out over the years on this case -
"It is the sound of America screaming."
"Micki" and "Milenko".
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ace
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Post by ace on May 15, 2021 17:02:56 GMT -6
Re: "Micki"
If it was in TUE I don't recall, but going over Maury's old Facebook posts it sounds like she could handle a pistol. I might have sympathy for her if she wasn't such an obvious god damn liar.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 15, 2021 17:12:50 GMT -6
Re: "Micki"
If it was in TUE I don't recall, but going over Maury's old Facebook posts it sounds like she could handle a pistol. I might have sympathy for her if she wasn't such an obvious god damn liar. The Mick is a guy
"Somewhere over the rainbow.................."
Ah. Also the nickname of Wheat.
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mike23
Junior Member
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Post by mike23 on May 15, 2021 17:14:53 GMT -6
Mick,of Northfield Center ,Ohio,allegedly!
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ace
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Post by ace on May 15, 2021 17:37:22 GMT -6
Mick,of Northfield Center ,Ohio,allegedly! Wait, when did this one surface?
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gv889
New Member
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Post by gv889 on May 15, 2021 18:00:49 GMT -6
Does anyone have Mick's Height & Weight? Was he of small stature? Remember the NYPD ballistic technician told Carl Denaro that he was shot by a 90lb weakling!
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gv889
New Member
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Post by gv889 on May 15, 2021 18:02:44 GMT -6
Was Manson ll Mentzer or the shit-kicker from North Dakota?
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