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Post by mannygrossman on May 7, 2021 13:28:15 GMT -6
Yeah, me too. I took her to mean she was talking more about Carr's features rather than Berkowitz's. By the way, John was a friggin model compared to his bro Mike. I've seen some pics of Mike Carr at his own wedding and the dude was FUGLY! Well that's intriguing. Did you manage to get a copy or see who else was in attendance? I have 3 pics from the wedding but they just show Mike and Wheat. Also Mike and his bride and parents. But no male or female friends of him. I'm not sure I'm authorized to release them just yet but I will definitely be putting them in a video at some point.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 7, 2021 13:32:22 GMT -6
Speaking of photos, Webbrain is down again or maybe I just can't get it to work. Anyway I did manage to save pretty much all the photos of the key players if anybody needs them. Well, as many as were available, their collection was incomplete.
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Post by mannygrossman on May 7, 2021 13:39:24 GMT -6
Speaking of photos, Webbrain is down again or maybe I just can't get it to work. Anyway I did manage to save pretty much all the photos of the key players if anybody needs them. Well, as many as were available, their collection was incomplete.
I've sent the guy who runs that site a plea to open it back up. He's kinda ornery, but he seems to think I'm ok.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 7, 2021 13:54:57 GMT -6
Having watched the entire documentary now, I'm struck by how similar Zeman's approach is to Tim Reiterman's when he wrote about Jim Jones and Peoples Temple in "Raven." In both, there are numerous instances in which something interesting and potentially even vital is mentioned or shown only to be glossed over. In other instances, interesting and potentially vital things that easily *could* be shown are not. For example, Zeman obviously had full access to Maury Terry's 1997 interview with Berkowitz--so, after everything that the viewer had already seen and heard about the Process Church, it would have been very easy to show Berkowitz identifying the sketch of Ken WITHOUT any prompting from Terry. The sketch was sitting in Terry's lap, but viewers were not made aware of its significance. I appreciated the coverage of the North Dakota angle, and the interviews with authorities there. All the claptrap at the end ("Rudderless chaos, no organization, no conspiracy, etc., etc.") was precisely that. I'll keep my thoughts about Joseph Borelli to myself. I liken Joe Borrelli to the character Stan Valchek from The Wire...not too bright, but just savvy enough to play the politics game well and attain rank. I couldn't agree more. Borelli was a good team player and spouter of the official narrative.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 7, 2021 13:56:17 GMT -6
Was wondering about "Grant's" myself. No idea! I was watching part one of The Sons Of Sam again and you guys had brought up "Grant's"..... The part where Maury is on a call in radio show where he gets into a feisty exchange with that egomaniac pompous ass NYPD Detective Sgt Joe Coffey, that was The Bob Grant Radio Show! Interesting! I loved Maury's retort to Coffey; he didn't miss a beat.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 7, 2021 14:46:51 GMT -6
Hmm. I have wondered if some sort of clues or hints have been sprinkled throughout the series. Pic related. Attachments:
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Post by justiceseeker on May 8, 2021 8:29:33 GMT -6
Speaking of photos, Webbrain is down again or maybe I just can't get it to work. Anyway I did manage to save pretty much all the photos of the key players if anybody needs them. Well, as many as were available, their collection was incomplete.
It went down again sometime during the 7 days leading up to the documentary launching...so either it was getting hammered by visitors, or someone got spooked for some reason, imo...
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Post by mannygrossman on May 8, 2021 8:33:49 GMT -6
Speaking of photos, Webbrain is down again or maybe I just can't get it to work. Anyway I did manage to save pretty much all the photos of the key players if anybody needs them. Well, as many as were available, their collection was incomplete.
It went down again sometime during the 7 days leading up to the documentary launching...so either it was getting hammered by visitors, or someone got spooked for some reason, imo... I have heard the owner of that site is sort of an emotional dude. He got pissed at one of the members of my team and railed on Facebook about some grievance. I asked him to restore it, but haven't heard back.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 8, 2021 9:13:04 GMT -6
I had the same impression...told him on Twitter that it plays as if it's the first 4 parts of a 6 part series, with parts 5 and 6 missing. As someone who enjoyed Cropsey and Killing Season, I was just underwhelmed by this one. The people who post on these boards, the ones who are in Carl Denaro's Facebook group, the researchers who Manny deals with on his YouTube series, are not the target audience for this Netflix series.
Those people already have an in-depth knowledge of "The Ultimate Evil" story and have already formed an opinion of what they believe in the story - Process/no Process, Manson I, II or zero, NYC/Yonkers vs. rest of the USA, etc., etc.......
The target for this Netflix series is to get new people interested in the case, buy the book, subscribe to Netflix, etc.
If people get hooked on the story, then it's time to explore the more in-depth worlds.
Remember, we all started off this way when we were first exposed to "The Ultimate Evil" and it was exciting!
However, think back of how overwhelming the story can get, following Maury's path through the maze, when you first started reading "TUE". The pseudonyms alone can drive one nuts!
Netflix and Josh Z. didn't want to overwhelm their target audience. It may be the right move, because that's how Maury lost a lot of readers by making the story too involved to connect the dots.
For the rest of us here, all we can hope for is this new audience catches "the bug" that we all caught with "The Ultimate Evil" and one day joins us here, or somewhere, and wants to contribute and be inquisitive. We shall wait for the day when they ask - "Now, which one was "Danny" and which one "Vinny"?"
Ya know, I may have been too hard on Josh or expected too much. He only has three boxes (surely 40 years of research would provide a mountain) and found the DiMasi interview on his own. Maybe Maury gave him just enough material for the doc, he did keep everyone compartmentalized.
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Post by mannygrossman on May 8, 2021 10:32:02 GMT -6
I can attest to a huge uptick in views of my series since May 5th, with a lot of new posters saying that they never heard of the cult before and now are hooked on the story. Josh deserves credit for popularizing the subject. His aim, as he told me directly, was to do just that. He never set out to solve the case or expose any new info that us in the hardcore SOS commnunity already know.
By the way, I am working now on a a possible weekly show with Jason Goodman of Crowdsource the Truth on Youtube. He is a very popular host that deals mainly in libertarian/right politics, but also esoterica. He caught the video series and like so many others he got hooked. He never knew Berkowitz was in a cult. He's having me on his show for a regular series where we talk all things SOS. It's in the planning stages, but he is saying our first show might be May 17th. Carl will probably end up being a guest too.
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ace
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Post by ace on May 11, 2021 11:20:08 GMT -6
That last line. "...and to cover a larger motive".
The "apocalyptic trials" were misdirection. Would they have kept going if David didn't get that ticket?
They keep going in terms of knocking off "weak links".
Was the operation winding down anyway? Why make it a signature (.44) operation with a logo and a wicked sense of PR? Was it Mafia-connected or was it a "fuck you" to the mafia? "We can shut down the whole city if we want"? Clubs and "night life" suffered a loss during that time. Who ran the clubs? Did another organization farm these hits out to a bunch of Yonkers shit-kickers? Or was it just a bunch of stoner witches paying back "straight society" out of a sense of disillusionment, disenfranchisement and despair?
Attachments:
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Post by justiceseeker on May 11, 2021 19:20:26 GMT -6
That last line. "...and to cover a larger motive".
The "apocalyptic trials" were misdirection. Would they have kept going if David didn't get that ticket?
They keep going in terms of knocking off "weak links".
Was the operation winding down anyway? Why make it a signature (.44) operation with a logo and a wicked sense of PR? Was it Mafia-connected or was it a "fuck you" to the mafia? "We can shut down the whole city if we want"? Clubs and "night life" suffered a loss during that time. Who ran the clubs? Did another organization farm these hits out to a bunch of Yonkers shit-kickers? Or was it just a bunch of stoner witches paying back "straight society" out of a sense of disillusionment, disenfranchisement and despair?
NOW you're cooking with fire... It was late-1970's New York...EVERYTHING was Mafia-connected...whether they were on the giving OR receiving end of the dirty work... By the way, Joe Borrelli wasn't smart enough to catch the clue in the letter addressed to him...and Carl Denaro's editor totally missed that the co-writer transcribed it wrong when he put it down on paper for inclusion in the book... Is it about a certain person? Is it about the nature of one of the murders? Both? Take a look and decide for yourself... Too bad Johnny and Steve Dagrosa aren't still with us...
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ace
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Post by ace on May 12, 2021 8:50:54 GMT -6
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ace
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Post by ace on May 12, 2021 22:25:27 GMT -6
Hi Ace
I think that was last week's episode that you attached (part 2 - "Knock on Coffins")
Here is this week's part 3 ("Hello from the Gutters") and gives more extensive parts of the interview that Maury did with Brother John Paul Ranieri:
Haha, thanks! I really wasn’t sure what to make of John Paul the first time I read about his connection to John Carr. For whatever reason, *that* sounded fantastical to me, like maybe he was just pulling Terry’s leg to be part of the story, attention-seeking behavior. Now, it makes a lot of sense. Probably impossible but damn I wish more contemporaries and associates of John Carr would come forward. Not to call Brother John Paul a liar, but to maybe explain how “new leadership” came about and to shed more light on old leadership.
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Post by mannygrossman on May 13, 2021 5:48:07 GMT -6
Brother John has quickly become one of my favorite characters. I am working on a new video about his map of the Wahlstrom murder at Van Cortlandt Park. There will be some very interesting new tidbits about Karen that I've come to learn from her old students from the early 60's, including one that was very good friends with her.
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