|
Post by Morgana on Jun 19, 2022 19:26:11 GMT -6
justbecause,
I understand what you are saying.
Thanks for the input.
|
|
|
Post by marionumber1 on Jun 19, 2022 19:57:53 GMT -6
It didn’t help when he threatened to expose Maury as a rape victim to bolster his theory that Maury wrote TUE as revenge against the Carrs (an old Wheat talking point). Here's something weird: the "John Carr raped Maury Terry so he got revenge by framing Carr for Son of Sam" theory was, as far as I can tell, first promoted by a vehement pedophile ring "debunker". This guy has been at it online since the early 2000s under several names, including Roy Harrold (on Websleuths, discussing the Johnny Gosch case), Vindalf (under which he left a 1-star Amazon review of Nick Bryant's book The Franklin Scandal), fantasypopper (on Reddit, where he's made several baseless posts and comments to dispute pedophile ring connections to the Dean Corll and Johnny Gosch cases), and RDobbson (on Twitter). He also used to post on this very forum under the name mysteriouscourtier. Here he is on Twitter advancing that theory as far back as late 2020: Perhaps Manny came up with that same theory independently, or he happened to come across RDobbson's postings and decided to adopt it. But I find it a little strange that Manny tried to promote the same obscure theory as a disinformationist who has quite literally made it his life's mission to "debunk" elite pedophile rings. And I couldn't necessarily say that the theory is false, but there is no evidence for it that I'm aware of.
|
|
|
Post by justbecause on Jun 20, 2022 4:25:21 GMT -6
The really strange thing is that Grossman insisted Maury must have been raped by Scout. How this necessitated a revenge story against the Carrs was unclear but Manny was very careful not to accuse John of any wrongdoing.
Manny soon dropped it after getting called out for threatening to shame someone who he believed to be a rape victim.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Jun 20, 2022 7:03:14 GMT -6
1. Berkowitz hasn't actually done shit since he got arrested. Oooohhhh, a whole carload of people CLAIM he has done shit. But, he hasn't actually done shit. For example, that anedecdote in Maury's book about Terry Gardner in Minot receiving a book on witchcraft with "Berkowitz's" handprinted notes in the margins is horseshit. Peter Levenda (or, "someone" at the Magickal Childe, but Peter is the obvious one) annotated that book, and mailed it to Gardner. It was postmarked at the post office near the Magickal Childe. Did Maury KNOW it was horseshit? Good question. Even in his own book, he admits that most of the horseshit he was fed about "The Process" and "Mr Real Estate," etc, came from "Vinny and Danny." NOT Berko.
2. The version of Carl's alleged shooting (has anyone ever seen one, single, solitary picture of the BACK of his head?) given in detail in Maury's book is pure unadulterated horseshit. It seems funny that Carl, Maury's "friend and researcher," never set him straight about it.
3. There is a lot of horseshit in Maury's book. And a loooooooooooot of synchronicity between Maury and Peter. A LOT.
4. All you gotta do is, go through Maury's book, replace the word "Process" with the word "Mafia," and all is made crystal clear. Even Carl's shooting. ESPECIALLY Carl's shooting. In fact, if there was one shooting that absolutely screamed MAFIA from the starting gun (get it?) it was Carl's.
5. So, what the fuck IS Manny up to? Don't ask me. He ACTS like he has severe bipolar and PTSD. But it might be an act. Or it might be a handicap he has learned to exaggerate. Or he might be controlled and manipulated (don't laugh.) Or he might be nuts. But he has definitely been jerked around.
6. Speaking of horseshit, what about Berko's nonexistent biological sister Roslyn? He has an older sister named Betty. But no Roslyn. I ask, because, his father, Tony Falco, lived most of his life IN Roslyn, NY. A little old village on Long Island, east of Great Neck, surprisingly close to where Carl and his family lived before they moved to Flushing. I mean, either he named ONE of his kids after the town he lived in, or..............
|
|
|
Post by marionumber1 on Jun 20, 2022 10:10:03 GMT -6
For anyone who's interested in doing a handwriting comparison of those annotations in The Anatomy of Witchcraft, I actually have a copy of the "hunted, stalked and slain" note from the limited portion of the Arlis Perry case file that police gave to me. And I have also wondered about this group of prison informants that Maury relied on. Most of the time it's presented as if these informants are just passing on information that Berkowitz told them, but this isn't always the case. I made reference to this in another thread some time ago: "Vinny" had knowledge of the (Nugan Hand?) heroin trafficking operation that did not come from Berkowitz. From p.831-832 of the 1999 edition (my emphasis added): As for the Process, I don't entirely dismiss the role of such a group, though I have always seen it as little more than a CIA/MI6 front for murder-for-hire and other organized crime operations. Maury sometimes presents it like that but at other times plays up the bizarre witchcraft angle, and those are some of the weakest parts of his whole book in my view (e.g. all the tenuous occult associations that he and Larry Siegel were trying to pick out of the Breslin letter). Not to mention it does seem like the sources promoting Process involvement in other major cases have often been questionable. For instance, Maury makes a big emphasis of how Vincent Bugliosi was on to the Process connections of Manson from the start, and has nothing but good things to say about his work prosecuting the Manson case; though it's pretty clear per Tom O'Neill's book that Bugliosi's prosecution theory was a work of fiction. Ed Sanders was the other major source of Manson/Process links, and while I believe Sanders himself was honest, much of his investigation relied on a private investigator named Larry Larsen who's been into some very interesting cases ( Los Angeles Times, "The Larsen Files : Their Cases Alone--J. David Dominelli, the MGM Hotel Fire--Make Them Extraordinary. But There’s Another Twist: They’re a Father-Daughter Detective Team", 1987/06/07): And Maury's own California investigation, which is full of so many anonymous sources that it's nearly impossible to verify, was helped along by "former" high-level FBI agent Ted Gunderson, an incredibly suspect figure in his own right.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Jun 20, 2022 10:42:46 GMT -6
Correction: Carl's mom WORKED (at a bank) in Little Neck. They didn't live there. Which doesn't explain anything about "Roslyn Falco."
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Jun 20, 2022 10:53:52 GMT -6
Jebus, Mario! I didn't even see your posts with the Arlis docs and vids etc. Sugar frosted pumpkin stickers! Yeah, that looks like Berko's handwriting, all right. But, who mailed it to Gardner from the neighborhood of the Magickal Childe?
|
|
Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
|
Post by Jon on Jun 20, 2022 11:10:14 GMT -6
"Vinny" existed. I can't be more specific than that, unfortunately, but Maury didn't invent him.
|
|
|
Post by marionumber1 on Jun 20, 2022 14:42:00 GMT -6
Jebus, Mario! I didn't even see your posts with the Arlis docs and vids etc. Sugar frosted pumpkin stickers! Yeah, that looks like Berko's handwriting, all right. But, who mailed it to Gardner from the neighborhood of the Magickal Childe? That is really interesting for sure. Where was the postmark (on what was mailed to Gardner) revealed? I was away for much of the past year and still need to catch up on a lot of the Son of Sam research, but I'd be really interested in seeing that if it's something you're able to share. According to TUE, Berkowitz had it "spirited out of prison to a friend". Interesting milieu for Berkowitz's "friends" to be hanging out in. Now, do we know for sure that Berkowitz wrote these notes while in prison, rather than perhaps having written them before his arrest and then having the book get mailed out later? And is it known whether/how he was able to get this book while in prison? According to the police report from the Arlis Perry case, he told Dee Channel ("Lee Chase" in TUE) that the book had belonged to John Carr.
|
|
|
Post by marionumber1 on Jun 20, 2022 14:47:23 GMT -6
"Vinny" existed. I can't be more specific than that, unfortunately, but Maury didn't invent him. I do believe that these informants were real, but I'm wondering whether they are entirely trustworthy, and not perhaps tied in with anything bigger. Do you know anything about "Vinny"'s sources of information on heroin trafficking through Hawaii? They were at least one person other than Berkowitz, and possibly some direct knowledge by "Vinny" as well. It also bothers me that Donna Lauria's former boyfriend was a low-level mob guy named Vinny, but maybe that's just a weird coincidence.
|
|
|
Post by Morgana on Jun 20, 2022 16:34:41 GMT -6
"That is really interesting for sure. Where was the postmark (on what was mailed to Gardner) revealed? I was away for much of the past year and still need to catch up on a lot of the Son of Sam research, but I'd be really interested in seeing that if it's something you're able to share." Watching the interview with Sheriff Terry Gardener. Here is a screen shot from the documentary The Son's of Sam... at 37:29 3rd episode I will email to Tom the larger shot It's post marked Buffalo for the letter...there isn't a picture of the mailing packaging of the book.
|
|
Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
|
Post by Jon on Jun 20, 2022 17:59:07 GMT -6
"Vinny" existed. I can't be more specific than that, unfortunately, but Maury didn't invent him. I do believe that these informants were real, but I'm wondering whether they are entirely trustworthy, and not perhaps tied in with anything bigger. Do you know anything about "Vinny"'s sources of information on heroin trafficking through Hawaii? They were at least one person other than Berkowitz, and possibly some direct knowledge by "Vinny" as well. It also bothers me that Donna Lauria's former boyfriend was a low-level mob guy named Vinny, but maybe that's just a weird coincidence. Maury had an odd and occasionally perverse method for choosing the aliases he assigned to various players in the case (and this is something that I've had bewildering first-hand experience with), but no: there's no apparent connection between Donna Lauria's Vinny and "Vinny" the prison informant. I can't speak to the informants' general level of involvement with organized crime, but Maury noted that the data recounted by "Vinny" had been "whispered to him by Berkowitz" (pg. 497 of the 1989 paperback edition of TUE), so as far as I know the informants had no first-hand knowledge of the cult's operations. (Maury wrote elsewhere--pg. 471--that "Danny proved he was close to Berkowitz by including a quote from a letter" that Maury had sent to David. Berkowitz shared information with two individuals, in particular, because he felt that their attorneys might be willing to assist him; see pg. 460.) Vinny's info, as Maury pointed out, was corroborated by outside investigation. Definitely Berkowitz's handwriting in the Anatomy of Witchcraft annotations. Edit: Maury did write that the list of Hawaiian names and numbers that Vinny gave him did not originate with Berkowitz. I'll fully admit to being stumped on that count.
|
|
|
Post by barney on Jun 21, 2022 3:36:51 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by barney on Jun 21, 2022 3:45:54 GMT -6
For Marionumber1 What does it mean when you or others speculate that the Process was CIA/MI6 front? And what is "the bizarre witchcraft angle"? The Arliss Perry investigation you provided has a lengthy letter by Berkowitz writing about Satanic groups and how they like to kill so once again what do you mean by bizarre witchcraft angle? The other thing of note in the Berkowitz letter is his attempt to gain employment at an animal shelter. Is the Process not now the owner of the largest dog sanctuary in the country?
As for the Process, I don't entirely dismiss the role of such a group, though I have always seen it as little more than a CIA/MI6 front for murder-for-hire and other organized crime operations. Maury sometimes presents it like that but at other times plays up the bizarre witchcraft angle, and those are some of the weakest parts of his whole book in my view (e.g. all the tenuous occult associations that he and Larry Siegel were trying to pick out of the Breslin letter).
|
|
|
Post by justbecause on Jun 21, 2022 6:30:29 GMT -6
"Vinny" existed. I can't be more specific than that, unfortunately, but Maury didn't invent him. Some of those prison informant letters are visible in Sons of Sam. In fact, there are several things visible in Josh Zeman’s documentary that either nobody notices or they don’t want to talk about.
|
|