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Post by poweranni on Jun 28, 2018 11:35:29 GMT -6
Those were the pre-Jerry Springer days, being blue-collar folks with drugs and drama might not have been a virtue to celebrate as it was today.
I get the impression from the source documents that people are holding a lot back, even if it is as minor as improprieties.
I thought that the spouse and the ex-spouse were always the first people they imterrogated.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jun 28, 2018 11:42:59 GMT -6
You have to find them first. VPD were only able to question Jim when they did because he was in jail being booked on a check fraud charge.
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Post by poweranni on Jun 29, 2018 20:36:36 GMT -6
You have to find them first. VPD were only able to question Jim when they did because he was in jail being booked on a check fraud charge. The entire coterie surrounding Darlene was full of charmers. Not to make light of the dead, but this was not a group of balanced people for the most part. I find the likelihood they actively shaded and undermined the investigatory trail around the murder to not be a shock at all. So you are saying, in so many words, that Jim Crabtree was just another fruity kook who was involved with Darlene? I certainly would not want to be thought of that way .... What motive would anybody have in killing her, if everybody in her orbit was behaving in the same way she was? What do you mean by "charmers" and "coterie?" Just curious, that's all. |
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Post by poweranni on Jun 29, 2018 23:51:19 GMT -6
So you are saying, in so many words, that Jim Crabtree was just another fruity kook who was involved with Darlene? I certainly would not want to be thought of that way .... What motive would anybody have in killing her, if everybody in her orbit was behaving in the same way she was? What do you mean by "charmers" and "coterie?" Just curious, that's all. No James Crabtree was a highly skilled military operative who married, as many soldiers do, an interesting person. He was estranged from her so far as I know, and was probably not thrilled with her rather hedonistic and impulsive lifestyle. I have a hard time believing that VPD would not have looked into DF's husband HARD then and they have not been able to bring a case in 47 years. Darlene was running with a petty thief, and it is admitted she was a peripheral player in the Vallejo drug trade whether as a low level retail dealer or a user who shared. She did not seem to be a person of excessive means, and one of the cornerstones of Professor Horan's hypotheses on the myth of there being a James Bond style villain Zodiac Killer is the Betty Lou Jensen/David Faraday murder being the work of "Big Red." Benecia to Vallejo was about a 1/2 hour, I am NOT conjecturing that "Big Red" really did the Darlene Farrin/Mageau shooting but I am saying there were some very rough "Recreational Pharmaceutical Distribution Specialists" in the region at the time. I find it highly unlikely any of her "Parade of the oddities" circle of friends killed her, but I do think they knew a lot more than they told the law. "Charmers" in this context are people of the type of character who would commit serial adultery, lie to law enforcement in the matter of the murder of a friend, and generally act in seedy ways. "Coterie" is a small group of folks with shared interests or tastes. Forgive me, my grandmother spanked me with a thesaurus. I am not trying to be overly insulting of the deceased or in the case of Mageau a survivor of assault with the intent to kill. We are all MANY people in the course of our lives, Mike Mageau may have turned his life around since he was given time and the chance. Darlenne Ferrin and the kids in Benecia did not get that chance. Not meant to be insulting or too terribly cryptic. regards, H You couldn't have explained yourself more clearly. |
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Post by poweranni on Jun 29, 2018 23:59:52 GMT -6
I find your insights very interesting.
Going with Horan's theory, that Darlene and Mike were NOT a random target, what motive do you think Darlene's killer had?
And when you say that the kids in Benicia were not able to turn their lives around, what would have been their starting point? Basically the official story is that these were "nice" kids, "good" kids, honors students, not troublemakers etc.
Are you suggesting that they were actually there to get it on, and buy a bag of weed?
--- Edit ---
Or do you mean that they did not have the chance to evolve, grow, mature ... like the rest of us did?.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 1, 2018 11:19:08 GMT -6
Read. The. Books. This discussion board is about the books. The answers to your questions are in the books. I'm not retyping three books on this discussion board.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 5, 2018 10:05:20 GMT -6
Well, the ONLY "evidence" anyone has EVER come up with to "prove" the Author of the first four "Zodiac" letters actually killed ANYBODY is Snook's photo. That's it. And NO ONE has ever produced ONE shred of evidence that ANY two of the murders are connected. And there is ZERO evidence to rule out a copycat at Lake Berryessa. And rather than "proving" that the Author killed [any of] the victims, the letters "prove" exactly nothing.
Was all that "planned" by the various members of some kind of "Zodiac Thrill Kill Club?" Or some other bizarre conspiracy? Maybe. Maybe the Easter Bunny did it.
But the ONLY "evidence" is Snook's photo. Otherwise, all the real EVIDENCE only proves he wrote [some of] the letters and [helped] write the cryptograms. That's it.
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Post by poweranni on Jul 8, 2018 15:56:44 GMT -6
Or do you mean that they did not have the chance to evolve, grow, mature ... like the rest of us did?. Yes, even "bad kids" are a tragedy in felonious death because society loses the person they may have been.
Murder is among the big three in black felonious marks on humanity: rape, murder, and fraud.
. . .
I think the wrestler was there trying to reverse engineer the drug trade and he was killed for it.
Still though ... the "killing snitches" theory, in my opinion, has its limits, because whoever killed David and Betty Lou would have a lot more to lose, in commiting murder, then being tattled on. Are you suggesting that Faraday was killed for being a goody-two-shoes in trying to bust dealers at his school? Or was he dealing and trying to get the competition off his turf? According to Horan's book, both youngsters were as clean as it gets. So I am not sure what you mean by reverse engineer the drug trade. |
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Post by poweranni on Jul 8, 2018 21:54:22 GMT -6
So I am not sure what you mean by reverse engineer the drug trade.
They were analyzing it so they could make a detailed formal complaint to likely corrupt cops.
If you reverse engineer an operation you try to find the retail dealers, you try to find the wholesale sources, and then you go to law enforcement and swear out an affidavit.
The kids were clean, good kids who were a little naive.
A little naive? He would have done well to stick to varsity wrestling and the eagle scouts or whatever he was into. |
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 8, 2018 23:50:34 GMT -6
Before I clean up this thread, I'll butt in and clear up something: Jim Phillips Crabtree was NOT a "highly-trained military operative." That's just some of his own horsehit. For starters, he's WAY too short for Airborne training. He wears heel lifts in his shoes to this day.
Crabtree is a liar and a coward and a penny ante fraud. In real life, he only served about 8 months in the Army. Not long after he was stationed in Germany he was up for Section 8 (homosexual) and that was later watered down to a general discharge (to save the hassle and expense of a court-martial.) Coincidentally enough, he MAY have been arrested by Dennis Land, who was an MP at the same base near Frankfurt Germany where Crabtree was shipped in and out. If he did shoot Darlene and Mike (he is the prime suspect) then somebody had to be there to hold his hand while he did it. That's also probably why he took off his glasses--he couldn't stand to see what he was doing. It also explains why the shooter(s) at BRS were so sloppy. Her certainly never killed anybody else, although he has been repeatedly charged with harassing and stalking women.
Everything he "knew" about "military" operations (and newspaper work) he apparently learned from his cousin (by adoption) Hal Snook. Just like Graysmith.
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ekh
Junior Member
Orders accepted.
Posts: 90 
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Post by ekh on Jul 9, 2018 7:25:25 GMT -6
That clears up a great deal actually. I was under the impression he was a green beret or at least had green beret training. Nor did I know he was in Germany. The coincidence of all these people knowing each other continues to unfold. I wonder if there was more to Dennis Land and Crabtree.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 9, 2018 7:58:49 GMT -6
Crabtree's a criminal. Is he a murderer?
Darlene's father Leo II was a pedophile who abused at least some of his kids. Darlene apparently ran away in 1962ish or 1963ish with a man in his 30s who her siblings considered more dangerous than Crabtree. She was gone for about 9 months. Did she have a kid who was sold on the black market? Good question. The Pill was not widely available yet, and it was expensive when it came out. Anyhoo, she apparently never told ANYONE what she and this man did, other than travel across the country. When she turned 18 she ran off again, to the Haight, and married Crabtree. No kids, but again, Crabtree is fundamentally queer, which may be why she married him. Jim and Darlene also hit the road, also apparently up to no good. Darlene's friends say she dropped hints that Crabtree had gotten her involved in drug smuggling and a cult-related murder in the Caribbean, and THAT sounds vaguely like the DeGrimstons and their Process Church. But I can't help wondering if it was DARLENE who got Jim involved, since she and Jim seemed to have been retracing the steps from the first time she ran off. In any case, this time around, Darlene was no longer a juvenile. During this exact period of time, Cheri Jo Bates's father was being threatened in regards to his actions against drug trafficking in Riverside County, and Cheri Jo ended up murdered. Before "Zodiac" took the rap for that one, L Ron Hubbard claimed the DeGrimston mob did it. The funny thing is, there may be something to that.
Here's what I think: I think the first guy, the older guy, was the one Darlene was setting up at BRS. I think THAT guy and his friends were looking for Darlene, and used Jim to find her. I think Darlene thought the plan was to nail Jim and then the police would squeeze him to get to the other guy. For a limp-wristed shrimp like Jim Phillips Crabtree, the 9mm revolver or parabellum was way too much gun. Hell, I'm a 6-foot 215 lb tight end, and it's too much gun for me to shoot one-handed. It kicks harder than a "magnum" revolver because it weighs less than half as much and the smaller bore...well, let's just say the Beretta-style .380 ladies gun used on Stine was more Jim's speed. Trying to hold a flashlight in one hand and shoot a .38 or 9mm with the other would have broken either his wrist or his nose. Or both. But--the description Mike gave police sure fits Jim, and he owned an identical brown 1963 Corvair, so there's that.
Oh, there's a simple explanation: Maybe Jim held the flashlight and someone else held the 9mm.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 9, 2018 9:06:41 GMT -6
So far as I know, you had to be at LEAST 5' 8" to be a "Green Beret." Crabtree barely hits 5'9" with his shoe lifts and heels. Furthermore, not just everybody is fit enough for jump school--at least, to last more than a day.
Crabtree was trained as a communications clerk/typist. He himself has pointed out that yes, he was trained in how to operate "encrypted" teletype machines, but from the clerk's point of view, it's just another electric typewriter. It required zero training as a cryptanalyst. "Crypography" is NOT "cryptanalysis." EVERY clerk/typist is a "cryptographer" in the exact same sense that EVERY typesetter is a "typographer." But being a typographer does NOT make you a "writer."
Crabtree enlisted enlisted in late 1964, taking the exact same deal my brother took--to avoid the draft. If you volunteered for 3 years, you were directed into non-combat infantry training which greatly reduced your chances of being sent into combat than if you took your chances waiting to be drafted. Un 1964, before LBJ doubled the rate, 17,000 were drafted per year. He was out by mid-1965.
It's like all the horseshit about Arthur Leigh Allen. He NEVER had ANY SEAL-like "training" in explosives, crypto, or any other Rambo baloney. He painted ships at Mare Island for a couple of months after basic training before he was kicked out for several disciplinary reasons.
Look, if I don't take your ANONYMOUS "I was in the Army and I know all about blah, blah, blah," seriously, then start your own fucking website. You've CONTRIBUTED exactly NOTHING and you keep asking questions I've already answered. Go play on Voigt's circle jerk. He LOVES super-duper secret internet agents and their speculative horseshit.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 9, 2018 9:08:16 GMT -6
Oooooooooohhhhh. You have a YouTube video of a kid shooting extra-light custom loads with her daddy's toy. I stand "corrected."
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 9, 2018 9:12:53 GMT -6
Where's the Youtube video I've been asking the Zodiac bullshitters for for 7 years? The one where someone tapes a "pencel flashlight" to the barrel of a .22 semiauto target pistol? Where's THAT YouTube video?
Come to that, where's YOUR video of YOU shooting a P38 with 4.5 grain loads ONE HANDED? Where is it?
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