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Post by hope on Oct 16, 2020 11:58:11 GMT -6
This one really stuck out to me :
"There are now three instances (two from ex-bf Randy) that they'd heard, all secondhand, that Tina was soliciting sex. <If so, why didn't the molestation case go down another way?>"
I feel terrible even saying this....but the first thing I thought of after reading that post was how Josh had said Mrs. Seabolt told them off camera that she had overheard a "sexual encounter " the afternoon of the murders. Correct me if I'm wrong and perhaps I am way off. But based on what we have been told about that days events, Tina was the only one who was home alone that afternoon. Was it her? And if so who could she possibly have been with? Perhaps she made plans to meet up with this person that night and is why she was still dressed. Perhaps that is why she told the Seabolts her mom wanted her to come home and not spend the night. I had always thought she might have chosen to go home herself because maybe she had a crush on Dana or Justin. But maybe it was because of someone else, someone she made plans to meet up with that night. Perhaps Jonny & Dana caught and tried to stop her from leaving or ran into this person and things got out of hand from there? All speculation of course.
It has definitely seemed as if there were things going on that people were trying to keep hidden, some "skeletons in the closet" or family secrets. That would explain Sheila's "memory issues". Also, it was always strange how there were so little reports available to us discussing Tina. It would be helpful to hear what some of her friends had to say, maybe they knew what was going on with her. I'm sure the police have such reports, maybe they also chose to keep things like that quiet (and Josh if he came across such reports). Sadly, that type of behavior sometimes happens in victims of abuse. Poor Tina.
I would also love to read the interviews from the Seabolts & find out more of what she had to say about that "encounter". Mrs. Seabolt certainly seemed to be quite a nosy neighbor. Just my impression of her. Would love to hear what she had to say as well as what her kids had to say. And since I think of her as the nosy neighbor I still find it odd she saw or heard absolutely nothing that night. And Mr. Seabolt was supposedly up throughout the night and up early to go wood cutting, stopping at the general store. Makes you go hmmm.
I also did not understand how the use of the word "suspects" proves anything. It was probably pretty obvious to them it was more than one person. Also, police typically keep information from the public so it isn't strange that they didn't tell the public they suspected it was a set up because of the light or that a daisy rifle was involved. In fact, I would think if they were trying cover something up they would have left things like that out of the reports.
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Post by kmik on Oct 16, 2020 15:49:57 GMT -6
Here is Tina's molestation report. You can tell by reading this they let him touch them for ice cream money - so sad - and it certainly does not make it right but that's clear. It says LE made numerous attempts to get in touch with the victims and parents the next week and finally got up with Sue who told them Tina was back over at the little girls house - LE went to the house and guess what - nobody was home.
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Post by kmik on Oct 16, 2020 15:54:22 GMT -6
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Post by kmik on Oct 16, 2020 15:55:41 GMT -6
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Post by kmik on Oct 16, 2020 15:56:24 GMT -6
pages 10,11
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Post by snoho17 on Oct 17, 2020 18:04:33 GMT -6
So I feel like I just returned full circle. Tina as the target. 2 of the boys witnessed and were allowed to live. Did Rick give any descriptions of the 3 men? Like Justin, he'd know if it was marde bo and ?marylyn. My guess is he probably didn't know them. Tina's sexually active at 12, I can understand keeping that info on the d.l. acid party at walkes, stolen acid,multiple baby daddy's. Justin saw Tina but rick didn't? Why didn't Justin ever discuss rick being present? And why didn't Justin see this 3rd man?
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Post by kmik on Oct 17, 2020 19:33:28 GMT -6
So many questions. Justin witnessed something, Greg said he witnessed something, Justin said he saw Tina, Greg said he didn't, yet no mention of Ricky being seen or seeing anything. Was the target Tina, the boys, Sue? Oh my gosh so confusing and then take into account when these interviews were conducted (before or after the Marty talk got around town) and how much of what was being said was pure rumor. I believe the talk about Tina was probably pretty close to the truth - but that's going by snippets of what someone said and not a full interview.
What's really baffling to me is that this case is almost 40 years old and in a lot of cold/old cases people from the area where the crime happened will usually post what was known or thought at the time of the murders. But not the Keddie Murders - it's nothing but silence - same for Kathy Howard's murder - it's almost like they never happened BUT THEY DID and the silence wont make them go away.
I'm shocked that Dmac was handed over case files, and I certainly don't agree with much of anything he says, and he suffers greatly from "tunnel vision" but hey if nothing else maybe he can get a foot in the door with the Kathy Howard case - I'd love to know more about it - or ANYTHING at all about it. It's time somebody starting asking what happened to these people. Unbelievable that the Kathy Howard case is almost 48 years old and nothing has been said about it practically since it happened- - Dear God somebody knows something and do these people not have a conscience???
PEOPLE if you live in PLUMAS COUNTY start asking what happened to Tina, Sue, Johnny and Dana!!! Start asking what happened to Kathy Howard!!!
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Post by snoho17 on Oct 17, 2020 23:24:19 GMT -6
Well I've been reading up on old stuff once again, it seems justin at least told his mother there were 3 men. It seemed to be excepted back in the day that there were 3.
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Post by hope on Oct 18, 2020 2:50:29 GMT -6
Interesting snoho... what did Justin/Marilyn say about 3 men? Or do you happen to have a link? I've been down the old stuff rabbit hole too lol. Lots of little tid bits hidden throughout those old forums. Too bad a lot of the stuff from way back was lost.
And I hear ya guys! I go back and forth all the time. Each person had reasons they could have been the target. I may lean slightly towards one more than the others but I'm not sold on anything. And the suspects, no one is truthful and everyone seems shady & suspect to me.
I wish more people would talk/post as well. Poor Kathy. It is sad, these people deserve justice.
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Post by kmik on Oct 18, 2020 9:11:02 GMT -6
Justin told so many stories that anything he says now is considered completely unreliable and untruthful. If we had dates on these interviews it might help to know how and why his stories evolved. In one interview with Doug he's talking about one man and then all of the sudden there's two - now we have three. My theory changes daily but if there were really three men that came into that house I just can't imagine that being over anything but drugs.
Why did the 3 boys live? Dmac says because Justin surprised Marty and Marilyn by being in 28 - what a stretch - and we now know he'd been there the night before also. The question is why were the "boys" not "boy" spared but not Tina. If it was over drugs then she possibly knew who these people were - maybe the boys did not.
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Post by raemen2 on Oct 18, 2020 11:28:35 GMT -6
The thing is there appears, as far as we know, that’s there not a shred of evidence that suggests that there were 3 men, 2 men or 1 man in 28 that night. It seems to me that all forensic evidence can be attributed to persons that can logically be placed at 28 that night. Is there really any evidence that Tina was abducted? We have Sheila’s statement that when Tina comes back it might take awhile for her to explain what happen, we have Justin suggestions of Tina’s hiding spots (paraphrased). We have Justin IDing suspects but no mention of Tina’s distress or kidnaping while he’s on a boat in the ocean. Did LE really think this was a kidnaping that ended with 3 murders? Other than an FBI profile... what did LE do in terms of solving a kidnaping... was there an ongoing official search or any other official procedures that truly indicate local LE or FBI truly believed a suspect apprehended Tina and left 3 innocent people dead in his wake.
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Post by hope on Oct 18, 2020 12:12:57 GMT -6
I agree with you both kmik and raemen2. Perhaps if we find out more about Greg's police interview and him mentioning there were 3 men. That would make the possibility of drugs (stolen drugs?) & the boys a likely scenario.
However, with the reports & little facts we have now, it seems to me that something happened involving Tina that got out of control. The police definitely never treated Tina as a kidnap victim, which is very unusual given the circumstances. I also take into consideration what Sheila said during that taped interview (wish we had the entire thing!) and the things you mentioned about Justin. And, as you guys have said before, Tina is the one person I can see Rick & Greg as well as Justin keeping quiet for.
The police must have had reason for treating Tina disappearance the way they did. And according to the Don's entry on the PON list police were questioning him early on if Tina could have been involved:
DAVIS, DONALD (SUE'S BROTHER)
In bar 4/11/81 @2030 - 2345, no lights at Sharp's when he left, background info on Sue, didn't feel Tina involved, Jim Sharp (Ex - husband) Type O Neg blood, Sue friends w/ Meeks, ID of pink pants suit, doesn't know wht/grn Blazer or who Sue argued with
<CRIM>/<SHANKS>/ <SHAVER>
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Post by kmik on Oct 18, 2020 13:56:23 GMT -6
Yall are so right and if you look at the files Dmac has now assembled there's one on " Don Davis re Tina involved" - might be nothing but Crim asking if Don he thought it was possible that she was involved. Wouldn't they have been crazy not to at the very least explore that as a possibility?
Too many lies coming from a very disturbed little boy - and from the very ones who should have been more than willing to tell the truth. In Don Davis letter to the FRB editor a year later there was no plea for anyone with info on Tina to come forward just that they did not want the murders to become political and that they were satisfied with what the police were doing. When Aunt Jackie was asked in the documentary outtake if it ever bothered her she said the murders didn't affect her (other than her sister dying that way) no mention of how Johnny died or Tina or of Johnny and Tina at all. She said she didn't have any interaction with the police so we know she wasn't calling weekly to find out if Tina had been found or how the investigation was going.
So true Ramen no evidence of anyone being in 28 but the people who were already in 28
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Post by hope on Oct 18, 2020 17:37:23 GMT -6
⇡ ⇡ All of this! ⇡⇡
You are absolutely right, none of that is how you would expect a family searching for a missing 12 year old girl to act. Something is very off.
Interesting regarding the files, good eye lol. Let's hope people will be able to see the actual reports. PCOS should make them public when all is said and done. I don't understand what is going on with that situation either!
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Post by kmik on Oct 18, 2020 19:05:06 GMT -6
My thinking (worth nothing) is I don't believe anyone is working this case because if the FBI was actively working it then they would have already stopped dmac from doing what he's doing because they wouldn't want him to jeopardize the investigation - but if there's not an investigation then this is just a last ditch effort to get somebody to tell what they know before their name gets put out there - and hey nobody's talking so names and statements are popping up every few days.
Our former Police Chief told me that sometimes, when the police have nowhere else to go with a cold case, they might release information in the hope that someone comes forward. Look if DMAC knew Marilyn was sick a couple of years back (2018) then the police did too - so if they had her dna at the crime scene they would have scrambled around trying to get her in before she passed. It does not appear they did that.
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