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Post by karis on May 14, 2018 19:43:48 GMT -6
There is the cloth ligature found where Tinas remains were found. Odd coincidence - the empty medical tape dispenser found where Tinas remains were found - more coincidence?
Yes it is. It is just one of many. You are also right that Tina could not get to camp 18 by herself.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 15, 2018 9:10:27 GMT -6
Oh, she could have hiked to Camp 18 by herself. But WOULD she? Once you get across Spanish Creek, the land is more or less flat. 30 miles over 24 hours is doable for a healthy 12-year old. But, without a compass or a landmark to guide them, people very naturally walk in a big circle. It's impossible to walk 30 miles in a straight line without guidance. So, there are two and only two possible explanations:
1. Someone took Tina to Camp 18.
2. Tina started from somewhere else, and hiked to Camp 18.
If Tina hiked along the highways and roads from Keddie to Camp 18, that's twice as many miles. Did someone pick her up hitchhiking? If so, they didn't come forward after the publicity over her disappearance. And if so, then they dropped her off somewhere along Highway 70 (to the north of Camp 18) or Highway 49 (to the south.) This is entirely possible, especially if her ride was a long-haul trucker who left the area and did not notice the publicity. But it doesn't seem likely.
Suppose Tina left Keddie voluntarily, or involuntarily, with someone connected with the murders. Why would they take her to Camp 18? Maybe they didn't. Maybe they took her to say, Feather Falls campground. Maybe she ran off/escaped. It's not like they could call the police and report her missing. If so, she could easily hike the 3 miles from the campground to Camp 18, fall asleep, and die from exposure.
Oooorrr, someone took her out to Camp 18 and left her there, dead. Why not bury her? Investigators found a blue nylon jacket buried about 100 feet away from where her bones were found. But the empty tape dispenser wasn't buried. Why not?
That's not even the question. The question is why would anyone involved in this crime take the empty tape dispenser with them? Why not leave it at the scene? Why did they leave the hammer and butcher knife at the scene, but take the empty tape dispenser? Did Tina have it in HER pocket?
So, let's think about it this way. Supposed Tina was taken to Feather Falls campground, or whatever. Then she ran off, or someone staying at the campground took her to Camp 18. That means, Tina had it in her pocket. OR, she was taken straight to Camp 18, and the person(s) who took her there ALSO brought the tape dispenser. Maybe they tied her up with the tape. But, if they did that BEFORE they left Keddie, then why take the empty dispenser?
It seems that maybe the SIMPLEST explanation might be that she was NOT tied up when they left Keddie. That strongly suggests that she left Keddie more or less voluntarily, THEN was "double-crossed" (or maybe she changed her mind) LATER. Either way, that means that Tina and the person who took her from Keddie left Keddie AFTER the other victims had been taped up (but maybe before they were dead.)
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Post by karis on May 15, 2018 12:22:21 GMT -6
These are the items that are listed as being found with the remains of Tina.
1. 1-Red material -red-
2. 1- piece of cloth -pink- belt like material knotted in a loop
3. 1- part of a boot -brown-
4. 1- piece of cord -white-
I posted this quickly from one page of the report that had the belt in it. Will post rest shorty.
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Post by karis on May 15, 2018 20:15:01 GMT -6
The report is dated 6-19-84.
I was advised by DOJ SA/Mike Crim that the Butte County Sheriff Department received a report from a citizen looking for antique bottles in the Feather Falls area that he had discovered a skull. They responded and recovered a portion of a human skull but were not able to identify it due to the lack of identifiable information on the remains. The discovery was made on 4-22-84.
On discovery that there wasn't enough information on the remains, the BCSO and DOJ conducted an extensive search in the area where the original find was made. On 6-8-84 they located the lower jar and it contained the needed information for comparison. The usable portions of the remains were sent to Paul Payne of the DOJ missing persons unit who coordinated the comparison of the remains with Tina Sharp who he had on file from the original investigation of this case. Payne sent the X-rays on file of Tina along with the remains to Dr. Norman S. Sperber of San Diego. [see deleted scenes from Part I for our interview with Dr. Sperber]
On 6-19-84, DOJ Crim was notified by Payne that Dr. Sperber had confirmed the identification of the remains as Tina Sharp from the dental records. Dr. Sperber is an expert in such comparisons.
During the search by DOJ and BCSO of the area where the remains were found, other evidence was also located.
6-19-84, I contacted Paul Payne of DOJ who confirmed the positive identification. I met with DOJ SA/Crim and discussed the find with him. We tried several times to notify the next of kin but were unable to contact anyone because they had either moved or were out of the area of their business and home address.
6-19-84, the evidence seized by BCSO during the search was labeled and packaged by myself and readied for transport to the DOJ lab in Redding. Purpose to compare the knots found in the ligatures from the victims inside the Keddie residence with the knot found in the cloth ligature found in Butte County. Tahama Co. investigators who were in Quincy on a different case will transport the evidence to the Redding lab on 6-21-84 on their return to their county.
6-20-84, approx. 0900 hr, we made contact with V/G. Sharp's sister in Oregon and notified her of the above. We were unable to contact the other relatives mentioned in this case. BCSO was advised of the notification and news releases were issued on the information by BCSO and PCSO.
6-20-84, I assigned Deputy R. Day to contact the Fish and Game Dept. to obtain location of deer kills in the Feather Falls area by hunters in the years 1974 through 1981. Purpose is to obtain a list of persons who would be familiar with that area from a prior visit. The area where Tina was found was a site called "Camp 18" which is a remote deer hunting area several miles above (North) of Feather Falls. USFS map coordinates are R7E, T21N, sec 35.
6-20-84, I contacted Brad HAssy who is a helicopter pilot. He will take us to the above area on 6-21-84 for aerial photos. A ground search team was arranged by Det. Sgt. Steve Wright. A door to door and area search will be conducted on 6-21-84 in an attempt to obtain further evidence or information from the crime scene in Butte County.
6-20-84, Marilyn L. (previously Marilyn S.) contacted me to confirm what she had heard on the radio about Tina being found in Butte County. I advised her it was true. We discussed her ex-husband. She told me that he went to Reno the day after the homicides, or at least that is what he told her. She said she can't confirm that he actually went to Reno, but he did go somewhere. I asked her about her son Justin and she told me that he has had some serious mental problems and was consequently delivered to her [other] ex-husband in Montana. He has started to discuss the Keddie incident on occasion but stops abruptly and will not talk further. I asked her if Marde had any connections (deer hunting, fishing, etc) with Feather Falls or that area and she stated none that she knows of. She added, however, that he does fish a lot and spends a lot of time in the woods but not around that area. Marilyn was very upset emotionally, evident by crying. She asked me if we found any other evidence in the area around Feather Falls that would implicate a suspect. I advised her we hadn't. No additional information from her at this time.
6-21-84, approx 1030 hr I left via helicopter to Feather Falls. On arrival I met with an investigative team supervised by Det. Sgt. Steve Wright. The team consisted of Sgt. Wright, DOJ Crim, Sgt. Young, Deputy Carillo, and Deputy Combs. We went to the actual location of where the body was found which is Camp 18 on the Feather Falls/LaPorte road approximately five miles north of Feather Falls. I found the location to be approximately 100 yards from the Camp 18 turn out. DOJ SA/Crim pointed out the exact location in that he was there on the original search by the BCSO. We searched the area for any evidence that is missing or could be connected to this case. Sgt. Wright located an empty medical tape dispenser and a portion of a pair of Levis in the area. Sgt. Young located a decomposed blue nylon coat that was buried near the road in the camp. With the aid of the helicopter, I took several photos of the area.
We went from Camp 18 to the community of Feather Falls where we conducted door to door interviews of any and all persons we could locate in town and the surrounding area. We gave people a list of possible suspect names, the original flyer of Tina, a list of possible suspect vehicles, and the composite drawings to examine and asked them questions concerning any suspicious circumstances that might be connected with her death. No one had anything to add to our information at this time. We left information where we could be contacted and asked that they call should they remember anything later. Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
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Post by justcurious on May 15, 2018 21:29:14 GMT -6
Oh, she could have hiked to Camp 18 by herself. But WOULD she? Once you get across Spanish Creek, the land is more or less flat. 30 miles over 24 hours is doable for a healthy 12-year. Walk to Feather Falls? Oroville is where the flat ground starts. I would have you google map Quincy Ca - zoom out a couple times - all that green you see is the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Think Donner party mountains in April with a little girl alone with no supplies, weapons or hiking gear. The only thing you can see when you are in that forest is trees, more trees, rocks and brambles on steep jagged slopes. I lived and hiked in the Sierras when I was a teen alone and with the explorers club. I tell you from experience, the possibility of her walking through that is very very unlikely. Adults with maps get lost in there and die. Can miracles happen? Sure. But it 's just not likely.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 16, 2018 7:26:52 GMT -6
No, it's not all "mountains." It's more flattish plateaus separated by river valleys. It used to be an ancient lakebed. It's not exactly Kansas, but it's not like Donner Pass, either. (Keep in mind, the Donner party hiked over the entire range.) And that whole region had been clearcut at one time or another. Nothing that can't be hiked in sneakers. By contrast, getting from Quincy to Reno without following the roads would be very tough.
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Post by raemen2 on May 16, 2018 12:06:00 GMT -6
Did LE ever find evidence of a burial site? IUnknown if blue jacket has any link to crime. But if it does, why bury a jacket but not Tina... I'm assuming the helicopter ride served at the very least a birds eye view to determine obvious irregularities in the landscape. Lack of a grave/ burial site.... that must have been confusing (or not).
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Post by karis on May 16, 2018 13:25:45 GMT -6
Here is another report on the Oroville-Feather Falls connection. (Tom if this is already on here delete.)
The C/I offered his services in procuring a "kid" for the agents and stated that he would need approximately $6,000 to make the purchase. The C/I further advised that he would require the agents to set him up in an apartment in Oroville so the "kids" would feel free to come and go and he could make the necessary contacts to set up the purchase. The C/I stated that in addition to the apartment he would need a four wheel drive pickup truck, and a CB radio and living expenses and that he would have to establish himself within the community before he could arrange for the purchase. The C/I stated that he had lived in Oroville several years prior to moving to the Feather Falls area and was well known in the homosexual community. The C/I state that it would take him 3 to 5 weeks to get situated and that he would require "expenses" during this time.
Several months ago I was advised by (name whited out) that the FBI was conducting a "confidential" investigation in the Oroville involving a child porno ring and "snuff films". Due to the confidential nature of the investigation, I asked ( )to contact the FBI and advise them of the information developed through the C/I interview.
On 1-25-85, I was contacted by FBI agents ( ) and ( ) and briefed them on the information I had. ( ) advised me he was extremely interested in the information because he was working a case in the Oroville area which involved several missing juveniles and allegations of "snuff films". ( ) arranged to meet me at my office on 1-29-85 to further discuss the information I had relayed to him. ( ) stated that he would like to meet with the C/I and that the FBI would be willing to "front" the $6000 if there was any substance to the information.
I was also contacted by agent ( ) who advised that the information might tie into a case they were working. ( ) advised he had to be in the Sacramento area on 1-30-85 and arranged to meet in my office at 1400 hrs to further discuss the information.
If further contact the with C/I is desired or required, it may entail having to go through Sgt. ( ) due to the inaccessibility of the area the C/I is living. I am informed by Agent( ) that the possibility exists that travel to the area may be restricted to snowmobile. There is no telephone service in the area.
( )
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Post by kmik on May 16, 2018 13:28:56 GMT -6
As far as I know a burial site was never found. Tina's red jacket (just red material) and shoes were never found. It's odd that an empty med tape dispenser was found (with no mention of any actual tape being found) in the crime scene area. If the killer(s) stopped at the Keddie store to dump evidence why not dump the empty tape dispenser? Was the pink cloth belt actually related to the crimes? If so why in the world strangle Tina with a pink cloth belt and not their hands? I know this is completely crazy but maybe Tina brought along the pink suit and ended up getting strangled with the belt?
Ronald Pedrini said her skull was found near a trash dumping site. On the deleted scene Pedrini (and some woman - his wife?) said that they (Pedrini and this lady) also found where somebody had buried some clothes. He said it could have been anybody, but they both said it was kids clothes and an afghan (no mention of a missing blanket or afghan in reports). If her skull was found (looking as if it had been placed there) then where exactly did they find all of the bones they found? Were they scattered or buried? No leg or arm bones that I remember.
I still believe she, or her remains, were taken there by somebody familiar with that particular area - and I just don't believe she was taken to throw off an investigation. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to take her there - no matter if they did it in 1981 or 1984.
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Post by raemen2 on May 16, 2018 14:01:08 GMT -6
My feeling is the pink belt belongs to the pink pant suit that was found in a pond. Someone wanted to wear it that night it was already out of the house but the belt was left behind. Any pantsuit with an elastic waist looks needs to have the belt to cover that waist or it really dose not look great on. Tina went back to retrieve that belt. Now whether she encountered murderers on the way in or out of the house, whether her return led to an argument with someone in the house??? Some one knew Tina could have that belt, someone had that pink pantsuit. It wasn't possible to return to the cabin so it was disposed of. But Tina had the belt in her pocket.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 16, 2018 18:07:11 GMT -6
All excellent points (and thanks especially for finding that reference to Pedrini and what he said he found!) Tina's hands/wrists (bones) were not found, right? So, if she were tied up with the tape, then a raccoon or whatever animal made off with her hands would have made off with the tape, as well.
Assuming she was murdered, and brought there on purpose, and left unburied, that strongly suggests that the killer intended to "visit" her from time to time. Unfortunately, that's a rather well-established "type." And such a type always picks a spot that means something to them personally--usually a childhood memory.
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Post by raemen2 on May 17, 2018 7:54:08 GMT -6
....or a location were they feel 'safe'', ie) they can reasonably explain why they are in that location/frequent the location should they be noticed.
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Post by kmik on May 17, 2018 8:43:09 GMT -6
I agree! From reading the FRB and from locals familiar with the area I find it hard to believe somebody took Tina to that location to "throw off" the police. They could have done that just by removing her from the cabin. Or for that matter they could have removed Dana and really thrown the investigation off.
If Tina was taken to camp 18 that night it was by someone familiar with camp 18. If her body was taken months or years later it was by someone familiar with camp 18. Did the caller on the Butte county tape (three years after the murders) really say the remains were Tina's? If so the voice sounds younger and nothing like Marty, Bo, or Dee.
There is nothing wrong with us questioning if Tina left the cabin that night with somebody she knew because it is a real possibility (as JC said kids don't think about consequences) and maybe the boys covered for her by keeping quite. Maybe when she was found 3years later they felt it was too late to tell the truth. I'm not saying this definitely happened but it's as possible as the Marty theory
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Post by jmo on May 17, 2018 13:23:20 GMT -6
I agree that it was somebody that knew the area of Camp 18.
When Pedrini found Tina's skull, what area (circumference) was searched? Is there a map out there where these particular items were found? It was "more or less" a garbage dump sorta place. Wouldn't the pink outfit (found at the pond--IF that is true) and the belt (found in the vacinity of Tina's skull) already have been matched together? As in FOR SURE one went with the other? I don't believe Alyssa Seabolt anymore than I believe anyone else in this case.
Pedrini seems shady. I wouldn't be surprised if he took the skull home and his wife said WTH and made him put it back and call LE. It seems like this was a second trip out there made to look like a "first time" discovery. Wasn't she with him when it was "discovered"? Bottle collecting in a dump. What a great date night.
As far as the call that came in to say, "Um, hey, maybe it's that missing girl"... **Note to Self: Never call LE and ask something like this for fear of being accused of murder. If this person had any information at all, that would have stopped them dead in their tracks with anything further. JMO
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Post by kmik on May 17, 2018 15:04:15 GMT -6
The above report said they took aerial photos but we don't have anything mapped out. Sorry to say I've made the same note to self!
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