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Post by Admin Horan on May 11, 2018 7:57:43 GMT -6
They did check the records on who had bagged game in that area around Camp 18.
Feather Falls campground is 2.5 miles (as the crow flies) north of Camp 18. Apparently, the Sharp kids (especially Tina) were friendly with the "tent people" who lived across the "swinging bridge." (Didn't someone say that some of the Sharp kids even camped out with them sometimes?) They no doubt had acquaintances/relatives also squatting at FF campground.
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Post by justcurious on May 11, 2018 22:41:54 GMT -6
Kmik - Really not that familiar - We are in Magalia which is above Paradise. As the crow flies it doesn't seem far from Quincy but you have to go down the hill to get to 70 then back up. That is why Darrel(sp?) was excluded from the suspect list - because he was in the Paradise area at the time.
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Post by justcurious on May 11, 2018 23:08:30 GMT -6
As far the kids being familiar with the Feather Falls area - there is a whole lot of lonely forest and mountains in between Keddie and Feather Falls and Sue and the kids didn't live in Plumes county that long. Now the killers were undoubtedly very familiar with both areas. I also don't know if Butte LE tried investigate the Keddie murder because Tina was found in Butte. I know there wasn't much evidence since the scene where she was found was exposed to the elements for so many years. It's just a thought but maybe Tinas murder was so horrific that the murderers had to hide her body or the public would have been crying for blood. Also, she could have been hidden in any of the Keddie cabins crawl space, not just cabin 28s.
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Post by kmik on May 12, 2018 7:38:41 GMT -6
Well you are closer than I am and have a better idea of where Camp 18 was. I do have it pictured as a lot of lonely forest and mountains between Keddie and Feather Falls. That's why I wonder why in the world somebody like Marty would have possibly taken Tina all the way to Camp 18 (no matter if she was taken there sometime from '81-'84) when there were plenty of places to leave her in between. People familiar with that area have long told that it would have taken around 2 hours to travel the 60 miles, how the road conditions were not that great, and the difficulty of driving a car on the road to camp 18.
To know that this land was used for hunting makes sense. People who went to Camp 18 possibly did so on 4 wheelers or trucks? Marilyn said Marty didn't hunt but that he liked to fish. I still can't see him driving 2 hours to fish - so I don't see him having any reason to be familiar with that area (just like she told LE). So it goes back to what people familiar with that area have said - it had to be somebody familiar with that area or else taking Tina to Camp 18 would have NEVER crossed their mind. |
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Post by karis on May 12, 2018 8:13:18 GMT -6
Justcurious I don't think Sue and the kids would have been familiar with Feather Falls either. However, Ms. Meeks did say in her old post that she and Sue would take the kids camping. So it is possible that maybe they had been there.
As far as the killers being familiar with the area, TINA was the only one taken to Feather Falls. There is no evidence that she was murdered. So did she leave with the killer(s)? Maybe that is what has clouded this case. We know Tina died, but not how she died.
For what it's worth, and its just my thoughts, something happened in that house within that family that night, it got out of hand and Tina called someone to pick her up or she was already expecting someone.
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Post by justcurious on May 12, 2018 14:44:31 GMT -6
Hello Karis, I personally can't attribute Tina leaving the house like that. Tina was only 12 years old at the time, a child not even in her teens yet, a little girl. Running away from home maybe, but not by instigating the murder of her family to do it. I've never heard of a 12 year old girl multi murderer before. Do you know of any case like that? I would be very interested if there is. Also, where would she call from. The Seabrooks next door didn't have a phone and no other neighbor said she used theirs. Plus if she had access to a phone why wouldn't she call the sheriff? Did she hate Justin and Dana enough to let them die with the rest of her family? Maybe I'm missing something but don' t see it.
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Post by raemen2 on May 12, 2018 15:36:44 GMT -6
Do a internet search 'children who murder' ''children who kill family members'.... it's going to make your blood run cold. The savagery of the violence belies what should be the innocence of their youth. Dig a little deeper into the stats....children under 16 more likely to have accomplises in the crime, that % goes up if the perpetrator is female.
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Post by raemen2 on May 12, 2018 16:45:56 GMT -6
It's a fair assumption that Sue, the mother may have been the main target, it's also equally as fair to assume that Johnny was the original target. In fact, the limited evidence available suggests that. It appears Sue was attacked after the boys, Sue was covered by the blanket. Please, don't be too hard on me for suggesting this but from the little that is known of the Sharps their dysfunctions are characteristic of this kind of violence, premeditated or not.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 12, 2018 16:50:21 GMT -6
Google "slenderman murder."
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Post by karis on May 12, 2018 17:40:25 GMT -6
The Sharp's had a phone in their house. Justin was asked "who used the phone that day". Remember the photo of phone off hook in Sharp house with fingerprint dust around it? There was a phone box at the bar (right in that area) I'm sure Sheila too was asked the same question regarding who used the phone.
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Tina was either:
1) taken out "screaming" by one of the killers (Marty) while the other one (Bo) retrieved her gass tennis shoes and red coat? Which makes me wonder who told killer x where her shoes and coat were or why they would be taken at all. Or
2)She woke up and the killers kindly let her go grab her shoes and coat. After all it was cold that night. Why? Or
3) Tina left "dressed" and willingly. Or
4) Tina never made it inside the house that night.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 13, 2018 16:36:21 GMT -6
5) Tina may have gone home, went to bed, then left before Johnny Dana arrived at Cabin 28.
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Post by justcurious on May 14, 2018 15:19:26 GMT -6
I found three cases of under the age of 13 girl child murderers. Mary Bell, Medicine Hat girl, and the two 12 year old girls in the Slender man murders that Admin Horan mentioned. Both if the Slenderman girls were listed as psychotic and the one girls parents were not only goth but also were into Slenderman themselves. The one girl still believed unicorns were real. Medicine Hat girl was a 10 year old with a goth self proclaimed werewolf 23 year old pedophile "boyfriend". And Mary Bell from 1968, not much on her. Not very many female child killers out there. Now once adolescence sets in (13 and older) that 's a different story. But even so, if Tina was involved, someone had to have driven her away from the murders which means someone over 16 years of age took her. In the small amount of evidence left at camp 18 was a nylon blue jacket(see meankitties PCSO actions upon Tina's discovery 4 pages). Tinas jacket from home was red. That means that someone bought/gave her a different jacket to wear. 2 out of the 3 cases I sited above were instigated/influenced by adults dragging children into their adult world. The adults in these situations are to blame, not the children. Besides, Justin (another child age 12) left footprints at the murder scene. He would be a more likely child suspect it you really have to believe that a child was involved in the actual murders. But then I would blame Marty if that was the case. Children just don't have the reasoning to make these kinds of decisions and understand the consequences. I don't see how you can assign adult motivation to children.
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Post by justcurious on May 14, 2018 16:36:54 GMT -6
Also on the same document (6-19-84)was cloth ligature evidence from camp 18 that was sent to DOJ to be compared with tape ligature found at Keddie to see if the knots were the same. This sure doesn't sound like Tina went to camp 18 willingly.
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Post by kmik on May 14, 2018 16:47:29 GMT -6
JC, our desire is to look at everything from the reports and statements we have. There is no doubt the police looked at the possibility of Tina being involved so why shouldn't we?
Notes from the FBI Victimology Report:
Just because none of the rumors checked out to be true doesn't mean there wasn't some truth to the rumors. Tina was molested (according to the report filed) yet the man never went to trial because there was no credible witness (or was it possible that one of the victims was dead and the other refused to be interviewed again?) Either way Tina was known to the PCSO. I agree that if she was involved then somebody was more than likely called to come help or was already at Cabin 28. Look at the statements and what we do have. Why is it that we know so very little about the one person who wasn't found in 28? It's obvious 37 years later that the police did not and do not have anything tying anyone outside of that cabin to these murders. Even the murder weapons and tape all have the possibility of coming from 28 right down to the pellet gun that nobody EVER confirmed was not owned by Johnny - Sheila couldn't even confirm or deny it belonged to Johnny years later. Any possible weapons that were used and taken by the killer(s) all have the possibility of coming from 28.
Tina's shoes and jacket were missing. Why? According to Justin and Ricky she had already gone to bed. This "box" that Tina was fond of was missing. What box was it? If a box, favored by Tina, was missing from 28 then the only person who could have confirmed it was missing was Sheila when she did the walk through with police - yet years later on the cabin walk through she doesn't seem to remember this box. The only box we know of missing was a tool box. Did she favor the tool box?
Ricky has never been pressed by anyone to tell what happened because he said he slept through this. As Dana Wingate's father said, "how is that possible"? Was Marty there and sent Justin back into the bedroom to keep the boys quite - if so that would mean they were awake. Or did Justin and Ricky know that Tina was somehow involved so they covered for her to keep her from getting in trouble? Lets face it, for several days following the murders, while people in Quincy were keeping their kids inside and locking their doors, Justin and Ricky were playing together between the Meeks house and the arcade. No sense of panic from the Sharp family.
It's really about looking at every possibility from the reports and statements we have instead of relying on comments made by people years after the murders. I think Tina not being found in 28 along with the others is a big problem for the police - who can't just dismiss it with, "she was taken to throw off an investigation".
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Post by justcurious on May 14, 2018 17:09:20 GMT -6
There is the cloth ligature found where Tinas remains were found. Odd coincidence - the empty medical tape dispenser found where Tinas remains were found - more coincidence? All this and Tinas remains 100 yards from a remote deer camp 5 miles from the nearest little town in the woods? These old logging roads are used by hunters because once you get off the road the understorie is thick and not easily passable, not someplace little girls go to willingly.
Also my point got lost a little. Just like children by their limited cognitive ability can not consent to sex, children also can not consent to murder. Their minds are just not developed enough to understand what the repercussions of their actions will be except in the most vague sense.
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