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Post by mew1987 on Dec 30, 2021 20:37:21 GMT -6
something I’ve never noticed (it could be nothing) is the spot/drops of blood (I think I counted 8) on Dana’s butt
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Post by snoho17 on Dec 31, 2021 11:48:14 GMT -6
I think you could be right mew! I'm looking for something else, but I def want to revisit this
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Post by mew1987 on Dec 31, 2021 21:04:35 GMT -6
I think you could be right mew! I'm looking for something else, but I def want to revisit this I’ve been thinking about it and for me it supports Admin Horan’s theory about Dana being killed and then Johnny the they shifted them, only to be interrupted by Sue as Dana’s was accidental they could’ve been trying to cover that up by attempting to cut his throat. I believe like Admin Horan said Dana was moved after Johnny was either stabbed/killed as Dana wouldn’t have bled from being choked. There is blood on his thumb and and on the inside of his hands (or at least under his finger) Now back to the blood spots on Dana’s butt they could be one of two things 1. Someone was bleeding it could of been over the killers (which I doubt as no one had any injuries) or Sue given that she was found behind Dana or 2. It’s blood splatter from being hit over the head with the hammer. there is however blood splatter on the walls behind the phone/seat area and Dana stayed seated for some time after he died (this is only a theory) but could Johnny have checked on him and found he was dead and tried to call for help (hence the phone off the hook) and that’s when he was hit over the head? To my knowledge no one checked to see if that phone still had a connection on the other end Oh and I found the the picture of Johnny where it shows he had blonde hair, which I suspected was his. blood is very sticky and it would be very easy for you hair to stick to your hands if the were covered in it. what are you looking for I could possibly help
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Post by hope on Jan 1, 2022 15:08:34 GMT -6
Great thoughts Mew! The blood splatter on the wall behind the gossip bench/phone does stand out. Tom has had some great thoughts over the years. He once theorized Dana died while sitting in that gossip bench, & there's the lividity showing Dana died in a sitting position. He also theorized J&D were lined up against that wall, Dana sitting and Johnny standing - the knife marks & the blood splatter. It made sense to me. But perhaps that blood splatter is cast off from the hammer??
Your thought of going for the phone is a good one too. I do believe the phone line was also cut, the phone wire was found coiled on the floor. But what order did things happen and why was the phone off the hook? LE must have had the same thoughts and took the time to dust the phone/table for fingerprints. I've wondered if someone was sitting there on/with the phone when the attacks started as well.
There is also that smaller patch of blood in the corner of the living room, same wall as the door but opposite corner. The blood pools start there and then get bigger, did the attack on Johnny(?) start there?
Admin Horan's theory of why Dana was on the cushion makes the most sense to me of any I've heard. The blood drops on the back of Dana's pants, he had that large blunt force trauma wound on the the back of his head & I feel that could have been one of the first, if not the first wound inflicted.
Not much help, I know! I wish an expert in crime scene reconstruction would give their opinion on these things. But great thoughts, please keep them coming! The hair could definitely be Johnny's, too bad we don't know if they still exist to be tested today.
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Post by snoho17 on Jan 1, 2022 16:34:30 GMT -6
Haha, I think I accidentally responded to you as someone else on FB mew:) Your right about the blood! In "autopsies dummied down" here,you'll find a write up from Meanie (omg she was great) that describes Dana's back of pants being bloodied.
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 1, 2022 19:20:18 GMT -6
Haha, I think I accidentally responded to you as someone else on FB mew:) Your right about the blood! In "autopsies dummied down" here,you'll find a write up from Meanie (omg she was great) that describes Dana's back of pants being bloodied. I’ve seen the autopsy reports but not the dummied down ones thanks I’ll check them out
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Post by snoho17 on Jan 20, 2022 18:45:37 GMT -6
Thanks for posting the above Mew. I'd just been thinking of how straight that cord is from Dana to John. It certainly looks as if John was rolled from the blood pattern, yet the cord isn't twisted. I don't know what I'm getting at other than John was rolled toward Dana (IMO) and then tied to him. Also, nice catch here Mew "something I’ve never noticed (it could be nothing) is the spot/drops of blood (I think I counted 8) on Dana’s butt" From Dana's autopsy "The upper portions of the pants are partly blood soaked, especially posteriorly, where the blood is still moist." One more thing, we've discussed is Dana's zipper being down. "He also wears blue corduroy type Levi jeans and the top button of the jeans is unbuttoned and the zipper is down approximately 2 inches." Would love to hear your thoughts on this!
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Post by hope on Jan 20, 2022 22:23:53 GMT -6
Snoho, I think you are spot on! Looking at the photo below, I can visualize what you are saying. It's not visible in this pic, but there is a small blood puddle in the corner, past the curtains. There's the blood between there which leads to the outline of Johnny. I've wondered if the attack on Johnny started in that corner but your thought tie it all together - he was initially attacked in that corner where some blood is, then he is on the floor where the first puddle of blood is (seen in the photo) and then he is rolled over to the outline where he bled out. Is that what you were thinking snoho? Anymore thoughts on it? I like where you're going with this! I'd also love to know your thoughts on the zipper mew! I only have one thought about that but not exactly sure how it ties in with the rest of the scene, so anyone else's thoughts would be helpful. I don't believe it would be possible for his zipper to be down simply from being moved. I'm also glad you posted about the blood droplets on the back of Dana's pants. I used to believe they occurred because he was initially struck on the back of the head. But now I'm second guessing that. There should be similar blood droplets on the back of his sweater as well. I have a couple thoughts but need re-examine some things. Anyone else have thoughts on those drops of blood?
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Post by hope on Jan 20, 2022 22:35:47 GMT -6
Mew said: as Dana wouldn’t have bled from being choked. Forgot to add to previous post, but I agree completely. Based on the hemorrhaging at the wound edges, he was alive when the blunt force trauma to the head occurred & possibly mobile at the time. Tom's scenerio makes sense to me as well - Dana was suffering from the head wounds, placed on the cushion perhaps to slit his throat like Johnny but they opted to strangle him instead.
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Post by kmik on Jan 21, 2022 9:38:30 GMT -6
It has been discussed that the droplets could be from someone standing over him with blood dripping from a weapon or the killer themselves.
Don’t know how to say this but they look like they were dropped straight down from above - just round droplets of blood (or at least that’s how they appear in the pic) not splatter. Does that make sense?
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Post by hope on Jan 21, 2022 15:50:55 GMT -6
Yes, it makes sense and I agree. Straight downward, circular drops as you said vs dripping drops as one would expect if they came from one of his head injuries. I wonder if they have been tested. It'd be amazing if they were from an injury to one of the killers. But drops from a weapon make sense too.
PCSO, please send those pants for DNA testing. Pretty please
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 24, 2022 5:50:01 GMT -6
My thoughts on Dana’s zipper
I have a couple the theory Admin Horan stated about Dana wearing a wire fits as the autopsy report checks for residue from tape
Some tend to agree with DMac that he got dressed quickly (I don’t)
My theory is it was staged for a number of possible reasons leading police to look for evidence or a motive that just wasn’t there to throw the investigation off track
Let me start by saying (I’m not trying to go off topic here) I agree with Admin Horan I don’t believe there was any intent to kill that night
Once things went horribly wrong, they staged the scene I think Sue died where she was found and like Admin Horan I think she was the one who rolled Johnny over. The tying the feet together looks like they were trying to go for some of satanic ritual (could be also be the reason behinde the mark in the walls) to throw police off if they were checking for tape residue on Dana’s waist then the wire theory fits and this means police possibly know more about the evens leading up to the murders than they’re letting on
Another theory is they tried to throw the police off track again with sexual assault or attempted sexual assault
or who knows perhaps someone did attempt to sexually assault him and that’s why Johnny stepped in I’d like to rule that one out there was no signs of sexual assault on Dana or Sue I don’t think they checked Johnny and no one would know with Tina. But there was bruising on Dana’s butt I guess it could’ve been from someone forcefully sitting him down
Yet none of these reasons account for Dana being in a seated position for long after he died
Another is someone checked Dana’s pants for drugs after he was dead (this could also have been Justin)
Out of the four victims Dana is the one I have the most questions about (yes I know most peoples is Tina)
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 24, 2022 5:57:19 GMT -6
Not sure if been discussed in the past but is that a bloody footprint on Johnny’s calk outline?
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Post by mew1987 on Jan 24, 2022 6:09:30 GMT -6
It has been discussed that the droplets could be from someone standing over him with blood dripping from a weapon or the killer themselves. Don’t know how to say this but they look like they were dropped straight down from above - just round droplets of blood (or at least that’s how they appear in the pic) not splatter. Does that make sense? It does make a lot of sense they were my initial thoughts but as no suspect had cuts or scratches I dismissed it as splatter from when he was hit with the hammer it would also be great to know who’s blood that actually belongs to whether it is the killers or Johnny’s or Sue’s as it would give us some insight as to whether our speculation is correct about Dana being there before Sue was killed
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Post by kmik on Jan 24, 2022 9:00:59 GMT -6
My thoughts are if no one took the time to plan it then they probably didn't take the time to stage it - but that's just my thoughts. We really don't know if any suspects (besides Chuck) had cuts or scratches because we haven't seen anyone's actual interview (Except Marty and Bo) and dmac cuts off half of the statement reports that he posts so if LE penciled in anything about cuts or scratches we'd never know. The only reason we know Chuck had cuts is because that was one of the reasons Maggie Lewis reported him. And cuts/scratches is very important and something I'm sure LE was looking for.
As for the blood drops on Dana I just don't know and we don't have a close up of them to be able to see if they are just drops without tails/splatter. But from the documentary photo it looks like drops. What spot of blood were you wondering about because we do have several things that the blood type has been identified (and there is a blood type B on rug under Sue). I hope this list is accurate it was taken from LE notes:
Sue and Johnny: type O Blood
Dana: type B Blood
Type O Blood found on:
#8 Rug near Johnny
#31 Red shorts on floor in front of couch
Type B Blood found on:
#13 Rug near Dana
#25 Hammer on table in living room
#53 Cover off couch cushion on living room floor
#57 Blood splatter on north wall in living room
Reactor for Type O Blood found:
#4 Knife on living room floor next to Johnny
#6, 7, 9, 10, 11 Rug near Johnny
#15,16 Rug near Sue
#70 Edge of door in girls room
#71 South wall in girls bedroom near end of door
#77 (not sure) Either Sue's glasses or on cut wire end on floor between beds in girls room
#97 Bloody twisted tissue found in garbage bin at Keddie Store
Reactor for Type B Blood found:
#12 Rug near Dana
#17 Rug near Sue (Sue was actually on top of this blood)
#93 Tissue paper from garbage bin at Keddie Store
Inconclusive or No Type A, B, or O
#3 Inside front door knob
#26 Butcher knife on table in living room next to hammer
#28 Cassette tape on table in living room
#94 Tissue paper form garbage bin at Keddie Store
Missing from those identified are:
#100 Cabinet door from bathroom
#82 Edge of door in boys room
#74 Stain on small bed sheet in girls room
#73 Drops on cardboard on large bed in girls room
#72 Drop on floor in girls room between foot of small bed and wall
#67 Inside door knob on back door in Kitchen
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