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Post by raemen2 on Jan 7, 2019 17:10:57 GMT -6
Why interrupt a perfectly good luncheon when the case has already been solved.
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Post by kmik on Nov 14, 2019 22:45:31 GMT -6
I would like to remind 28 not to get all bent out of shape over reports that were left out or statements not taken on the morning of April 12, 1981 because WE HAVE NEVER SEEN ALL OF THE CASE FILES. Josh Hancock DID NOT see all of the case files as was evident in the 2011 news article written by Josh Seabold. If Josh Hancock or Ms. McGlovin has anything that we have not seen then they should produce it until then all we have is what Josh chose to share and that is ALL.
If Jim the ex went over to the Smartts on the morning of the murders, for whatever reason, I'll believe it when I see a report that verifies what Glenna claimed happened 28 years later - remember she couldn't even remember 28 years later if LaRhonda was or was not in Keddie that morning. She also claimed Sue left her house around 6:00pm on Saturday evening yet there is a statement from 1981 of Walter calling the Sharp residence around 5:00pm and talking to Sue - and Glenna Meeks is the person who gave that statement!
The only thing I can see that the police did wrong was not questioning all of the kids as much as they obviously questioned Justin - but then again I haven't seen all of the evidence. All we have seen is whatever would tie Marty Smartts name to this case - thanks to the Meeks for leading Josh and Sheila in that direction.
I can only imagine how much more interesting that documentary would have been if Josh would have laid out this case and all of the suspects without trying to "solve" the case.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 15, 2019 11:41:43 GMT -6
In my semi-professional opinion, the only "investigators" who may have done a lousy job is Gamberg. If anything, he was one of the people in town who started whatever happened. And he has done as much as McNarie to screw up the investigation since then. He's flat out told me lies over the phone.
Don Stoy, Crim and Bradley, and the others who actually worked on this case seem to have done a pretty thorough job. If no one in that town is capable of ever telling the same story twice, what could ANYONE do?
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Post by kmik on Nov 22, 2019 23:22:01 GMT -6
Recent post to FB 28:
I'm glad to know that Leanie has been reading this forum but maybe he/she doesn't know where all of the info available online came from (and just a hint it certainly wasn't from Dmac). All of the police reports, photos, etc were obtained by Josh Hancock - 28 didn't have a hand in that. I think that is what's lacking on 28's FB and forum - anyone left who knows anything about this case it's all whatever 28 spoon feeds them. We were banned from his forum because we actually began to ask real questions.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 23, 2019 6:44:43 GMT -6
So, they're reading every word WE post. Warms the cockles of my heart.
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Post by kmik on Dec 18, 2019 7:13:40 GMT -6
This is a 2017 post from Keddie28 and it's an email exchange between Gamberg and Dmac. Read it and you'll understand why I can't understand Gamberg hashing out information with Dmac when he has LE right there in Quincy who know this case? And to make it worse WDMAC posted it for everyone one to see - or was that Gambergs reason for sharing it with him? As Meanie used to say it appears to be "smoke and mirrors".
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gamberg and I have been emailing each other furiously in the past few days, and he emailed me today about some more Karl Spang reports he'd recently read. Stuff we've never seen. Bullshit about Johnny and Dana scoring weed from him, then burning him on the deal, which was described as his reason to go out to Keddie. In the middle of the night. And park for a while by Marde's Hammer Pond?! PCSO researched part of his story, and in doing so, found documentation that Sue was fucking Marty. A witness, a bartender no less, said Marty was Sue's boyfriend, and Marty gave this bartender the creeps because he was so protective of her, like the obsession I've so often heard described. Well, no point in reinventing the wheel, so I'll include an edited version of my reply to Mike: Well, first, part of his email for better context:
Something struck me about motive, just a thought . During the investigation Karl Spang a local doper was interviewed at length by Steve Wright, then a deputy. Spang said that he had fronted J&D money for dope and followed them to MV to a party and then back to Keddie. All bullshit babble re: a drug motive?? During the interviews Spang said that he'd been stiffed and went back to Greenville to the Pioneer Bar where he witnesses a fight and that xxxxx was the bartender and could verify the info.
5/10/81 xxxx was contacted by Wright, dispelling what Spang was telling the deputy. xxxxx told the deputy in context, that she knew "Sue Sharp from college at FRC two semesters ago". She said that Sharp was going with a "Martin Smart, a Vietnam Vet". She said that Martin gave her "the creeps" because he was so "protective and possessive and jealous of her". Again nothing was done to follow up the information.
You had mentioned in the past that Marty was upset that Sue was banging the railroader in the trailer just above his cabin. Coupled with Marilyn being counseled by Sue to divorce Marty could go to motive. Just a thought?? Do Ya Think?
My reply:
Yeah, I've read the Spang files many times. I find his story to be as bullshit-filled as Walke/Thompson. I think the Dana he's usually talking about is Dana Green, that cunt Mona's doper son. Like Walke and T, he was in Keddie for a nefarious enough reason to make up an extremely large pile of BS about why he was there. And, just like W/T, he has to insert himself into the case. And, like T, he even infers he had the ways, means, and motive.
I'd never seen any of what you've mentioned in files I've accessed: drug debt, Pioneer bar fight, Marty was banging Sue. I've always felt Loon set Sue up and, if Sue and Marty were dumb enough about it that even a bartender knew, then Loon had probably caught wind of it- which is how Marty was suddenly informed Sue had been 'counseling' Loon into leaving. But, to me, it's far more likely Marty made that shit up just as window dressing for the confession. Like his story of taking Tina from the house while 'incapacitated' is his light language for 'dead', and his line about "I only killed the girls" was somehow meant to suggest he was somehow less evil than whoever killed the boys. It was certainly less messy- and far less logical- to say that Sue was an extreme bitch messing with his marriage, the fact is Marty fucking Sue did mess up his marriage. So he shifted the language around to again make it appear Sue's murder was all her fault, and Marty had no hand in the motive. So, the short and curlies of motive is Marty was busted for banging Sue, which is why Loon said Sue had to go. This explains why Loon was so involved in a crime she instigated in order to get both Sue AND Marty out of the picture so she could openly fuck Wade.
As I posted way back, Loon's MO was to fuck a guy dry, use him and dump him, while a new victim was usually already in play or at least lined up. Her going to the Meeks house that Sunday was because Nina already knew Wade was banging her. It explains so many of their lies over the years- what I call the Tunabi: Loon's and Meeks' alterations of the original Loonibi in order to further deflect implications of their own involvement (and motives- Wade banging Loon prior to the murders, and Nina's clear fixation and anger at Sue over the adoption of HER GRANDDAUGHTER). As I also said in that post, Loon is a very vindictive sociopath and, while she sees herself as guiltless for banging Wade, both Sue and Marty "had to go" for shaming her. In other words, unlike her public persona of the guiltless woman subjected to years of abuse by almost all her men, in reality she could fuck anything she wanted, but it was unacceptable for her man to do the same.
Is xxxxx still afloat? When I spoke with one of Josh's producers (who quit after helping him steal documents, because Josh was veering away from the truth spelled out in the files), xxxx mentioned that it was fairly common knowledge that Marty was fixated on Sue. xxxxx was unsure if his desires had been consummated, but [bartender] makes it clear they had been. Not just that, but they were fairly stupid and in-the-open about it. This producer is also the source that Zonita had told them of overhearing a sexual encounter coming from 28 Saturday afternoon, the 11th. I'm pretty certain that if Z told Josh's crew, then her family is aware of that- and much more.
I think there's a fairly strong likelihood of Sue turning the odd trick is more than rumor. We already know the line about her being a teetotaler is bullshit- she was seen in bars with her BFs, including Dareyl and the dead lounge singer, and now even Marty. Plus the info on her having a cocktail waitress position at the Elks is just another way for her to line up clients. And, again, if Marty knew about this, then his supposed comments about Sue being a whore line up with his part-time bible-thumping fixation, as well as his need for justification in a quad.
Yeah, the story of Sue counseling Loon never lined up with reality, and certainly had a hollow ring to it. Sue was a shit mom who allowed her husband to abuse her and the kids, and was slowly meandering across America in the hopes James would take her back. She didn't give a damn about her kids, didn't want to be a mom, so she basically just didn't do it. And, no matter how Marty preferred to say it in his lightweight partial-confession, his pounding Sue certainly could be construed as Sue fucking with his marriage- exactly how the therapist described it. Fortunately, xxxxx's account was put on paper and survives. And, of course that avenue was closed off, as anything pointing to the killers, even motive, was shut down.
Bottom line- we now have a clear set of motives for both Marty's and Loon's direct participation in the set-up and executions. And Bo is still the odd-man-out. Why the fuck did he involve himself? Hell, they walked in with a full kill kit, so he knew this home invasion wasn't just about taking a fuck from Sue and maybe Sheila. See, I doubt the killers knew Tina and Sheila swapped at the last minute. Which is another reason this had nothing to do with Tina, other than they took her in order to throw off LE. And, of course, the first thing Sly speculated publicly was that Tina was the key, perhaps even a participant. As if Marty wrote the script for him. It's also certainly the line of bullshit they were feeding Quantico, which is why John Douglas' profile parrots exactly what Crimely and DT wanted FBI to believe.
d
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Post by kmik on Dec 18, 2019 9:22:41 GMT -6
Mike G from the above 2017 email exchange:
A week later Dmac posted that this same xxxx bartender just happens to be the one who gave the boys a ride home. This was not told in 1981 - what she told in '81 was that Karl was lying about where he was and that Marty was seeing Sue. Marty took her to the Pioneer Bar and was so possessive of her at the Feather River Collage that this bartender took notice?? Sounds to me like this bartender had Sue confused with Marilyn - as we've seen by others on the PON list. If she was going to give the police all of that info in 1981 about who was lying then why didn't she tell that she took the boys home?
This reminds me of the title of Timeline A which was,: "Liars, Dopers, and Psychos". Nothing could be truer.
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Post by jmo on Dec 18, 2019 13:56:20 GMT -6
Or...maybe Sue was the "right" girl but Marty was the "wrong" guy. We have Baze and Josephson at the bar vying for Sue's attention. Those weren't Marty's stompin' grounds.
Rumor started by Judy Lepley, Pioneer Bar (Greenville *Russell, David. *Maple Leaf Bar.) Dmac:PCSO were told Marty and Sue were having an affair, were seen together at the bar. Gamberg, years later. Reported Marty was possesive and jealous towards her. Mike spoke to the source from 1981. Then verified it with another person. Gamberg wife?
-Note to high school couselor. Handwritten notebook paper. Everytime I read the word "handwritten" I get queazy. -Josh's producer spread rumors of Marty and Sue.
Bars Back Door bar. see *Jack Brown, Manager see *Jan Albin, Back Door Bar. see *Kathy Andreas, waitress at Back Door Bar. Pioneer Bar. Greenville. see *Judy Lepley. (Started) rumor about see *Affair, Marty and Sue Maple Leaf Bar. see *Patrons see *Michelle Curran. "Mickey" see *Russell, Dave: Bartender at Maple Leaf Bar. MLB is 22 miles from Keddie. see *Mitchell, Alton: Male bartender? 3 other people/Kathy
Bartenders see *Judy Lepley Pat Sloaterman got her info from Algers. How the bartender ended up giving J & D a ride to Keddie: *Kathy Beckley had no gas so she called her mother who called the bartender. (They were friends.) Gamberg: 3/25/15: "After the homocide I was employed as a bartender at the Back Door Bar". see *matches see *Mike Plyer #16
**Female bartender + Karl wasn't there + Marty was seeing Sue = **Marilyn, Sue, and Linda Gamberg had a typing class together. **Sue, Marty and (the bartender) were in another typing class together. **Bartender says Sue and Marty were an item in Nov 1980. Sue dropped out after 9/18/80. see *Reid, Russell, Feather River College.
Baze, Joe Reno Met Sue at the Pioneer Bowling alley 6 weeks prior to 4/11. He invited her to his place. She invited him to dinner at her place the following night. Saw her two times. Talked on the phone a lot. see *Pioneer Bar/Patrons Said the only trouble either J & D had was with Steve G. (Bradley) 4/12 3:45 Joe Baze returns home to EQ from Standish (Brubaker) Is he the cause of Josephson's jealousy? Pioneer Bar? Born Jan 26, 1937 died 5/22/1982 3:45 Joe left Q enroute to girlfriend Helen Johnson's in Susanville (Bradley) he had been married 3 times. Divorce to be final end of April (Brubaker) He invited Sue over the first time he met her. 4/12 10 am? Joe returns from Susanville to his sister's home in Standish. Got back to Q @3:45 Sunday pm (Brubaker) Joe and Helen close down the Pioneer Bar. Stay at her home/Susanville Joe Baze leaves EQ to take his kids to his sister's. Irma T. in Standish and then to Helen's. Then to Pioneer Bar until 2 am. (Brubaker) Said Sue disagreed on religion and things. He didn't want to see her any more. But it wasn't over his drinking. (Brubaker) Did Joe see/know Karl Spang? Pioneer Bar. Could Sue have been the right girl and Marty the wrong guy? Or, both? Wrong girl, wrong guy?
Mike worked at Keddie bar 1982. (Just after 4/11) Mike was given access to all the murder files at the same time Josh "stole" them from the office. (Josh replaced/with copies) As special inv Gam took over a small room in the sheriff's offices and began sifting through the evidence which included 12 or more boxes and a "freezer full of stuff", all stored in various places around quincy. He also obtained access to evidence collected in Butte County, where Tina was found.
Dmac: I saw a file that was clearly an original file. I then got as many documents out of him that I could. Dmac: I even coaxed him into giving me the original-and only known- tape of the interview between Bo and Crim/Bradley. Dmac: Once it was clear he wasn't going to send anything else, I exposed him. I removed everything from his site-the main site and the forum. Dmac: It took a year for Gamb to approach me about the stolen files. I'd put the files away for safekeeping in a "cool, dry place" and it took me months to find the files. Gamb: Back when I found the tape, I found a folder in the same box. Filled with photocopied reports I'd never seen before.
Dmac and Gamberg might have had access to documents and files, but any rumors out of PCSO came from Gamberg. JMO
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kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Dec 18, 2019 15:09:03 GMT -6
My main question from all of this: Why is Gamberg sharing information and theories with an internet sleuth? If DMac was so trusted with PCSO and their files, why not hire the fucking guy at that point lol
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Post by jmo on Dec 18, 2019 15:56:30 GMT -6
Strange relationship between those two--both trying to be top dog. They had to start scratching each others back to get what they wanted. Unfortunately, it created a lot of really crazy speculation on both their parts. I think they played each other.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 18, 2019 20:51:11 GMT -6
Ooooooooohhhhh, I think it was very simple. McNarie, who really did once work for Cosgrove-Meurer Productions (I can't possibly imagine how he got himself fired,) contacted Josh after seeing his documentary and said, "I can get us on TV!" Then he double-crossed Josh--and I mean, he ratted him out and had him charged with evidence tampering. Then, McNarie contacted Gamberg/Hagwood and said, "I can get us on TV!"
My favorite part was when McNarie went on a screaming tirade claiming that People Magazine had "betrayed his privacy and safety" by showing his face "without my permission." Riiiiiiiiggghhhhtttt.
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jdub
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by jdub on Dec 18, 2019 21:26:52 GMT -6
👍
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kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Dec 18, 2019 21:53:06 GMT -6
If Dmac can “get them on TV” it would have been done by now lmao. But with all the obsession over unsolved cases and true crime in general, I’m surprised oxygen, Netflix or Hulu hasn’t picked something up about this case. There are several documentary’s about cases as confusing as this one out there.
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camfaults
New Member
Researching cold cases of California.
Posts: 46
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Post by camfaults on Dec 20, 2019 0:01:17 GMT -6
Dmac is so crude in his discussions of Keddie residents. Perhaps his lack of professionalism got him fired from his TV gig. He's disgusting!
As for Gamberg, he seems to lack a degree of professionalism as well. I question his ability to investigate this case with an open, impartial mind. His relationship with the murder victims, especially Dana Wingate, is a big red flag for me. Why doesn't Hagwood shut this Gamberg-Dmac exchange of info down? In my opinion, Dmac endangers the online discussion of this case with his bullying behavior and twisting of facts to fit the Smartt/Boubede suspect theory. In my opinion, Martin Smartt had nothing to gain from murdering Sue. He had more to gain by taking out his cheating wife and/or her young lover.
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kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Dec 20, 2019 1:54:27 GMT -6
I definitely agree camfaults but honestly the one question I have is how ‘close’ were Dana and Gamberg really? I mean Gamberg could just be saying this as kind of a one up for people on this case or to give himself kind of a glory moment of being semi close with someone and then saying you’re working on their murder case.
I mean all we know is Dana was friends with his son(or kids) and that he had taught D&J martial arts a couple times. I mean I’m not trying to discredit Gamberg at all, for I know there could have been plenty of other times he saw Dana and I would love to hear about them.
I feel like Hagwood would have more of a leg up on his friendship with them because he was their actual classmate and all that. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever really heard anything bad about Hagwood and how he’s been handling this investigation so hats off to him. Investigating murders can’t be easy but I’m sure it adds a touch of sadness when you know them ya know lol
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