smithy
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by smithy on Nov 14, 2014 8:47:14 GMT -6
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Michael Butterfield
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Post by Michael Butterfield on Nov 18, 2014 15:00:15 GMT -6
(So much for detective skills.) Bippity-Boppity BŪ-KKAKĒ!
I AM DOOMED!
Yes, so much for your "detective skills", Smith ;-] If you showed a little less disrespect toward Prof. Horan on ZKS, then he might tell you that my IP address is originating from NOWHERE NEAR Portland, Oregon.
"Big Bird, Mr. Butterfield's not coming back."
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Michael Butterfield
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Post by Michael Butterfield on Dec 16, 2014 14:57:56 GMT -6
Mikado Kabuki Kamikaze BÜ-KKAKĒ! I AM DOOMED! Smithy on Nov. 19, 2013 at 3:37 PM: "Thanks! In return may I say how nice it is to be on an interesting and open site where there's some traffic, not on one of those backwater sites where there's just long silences, crack-pot theories, and no replies. Ever. Or just a few posts, and flurries of ass-kissing. ;-)" — Methinks, now, that woz irony ye bespoke, Smithy? (Belated Hallowe'en Snickers) ;-] zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=2049&start=20#p26227— "M'excuse" (ca. 17 c. foppish powdered wigs)? "flurries of ass-kissing"? zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=2049&start=50#p26401"If the writer did not believe he would and could get access to the materials to support his hoax letters at some point - he probably would not have undertaken to write them in the first place." — Reasoning a wee bit circular (Begging the question), Smithy? Yet ye salivate at the chance to correct others' (il)logic?
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 17, 2014 6:23:11 GMT -6
"If the writer did not believe he would and could get access to the materials to support his hoax letters at some point - he probably would not have undertaken to write them in the first place."
Now, THATS an interesting point. Other people have phrased it, "How did he know BRS, or LHR, or LB, or Stine, would go unsolved?" Well, for one thing, SIXTY PERCENT of all Bay Area murders were going unsolved. Second of all, the hoaxer(s) didn't pick random murders and just cross his fingers and hope they'd go unsolved. LHR and BRS were, to anyone with insider access, obviously not going to get "solved" by the "police" officers assigned to them. That's why he created the letters. And "Zodiac" never tried to take credit for LB; the copycat tried to pin it on him.
So, what about Stine? I contend that Keith Power already knew how easy it was to tamper with evidence in San Francisco county. He knew that SFPD had no suspects in the ongoing string of cab robberies. He knew that the Stine robbery gone wrong fit that guy's MO, and that SFPD were already potentially confused about the description of the "suspect" between the kids and Fouke. In other words, Power, who was already involved in the hoax (ref: the July 6 story about BRS that was based on the same Hoffman report as the first two Z letters) and who was working HOJ that weekend (ref: the October 12 story that includes some details from the Fouke description, and some from the kids description) not only knew, but was the only person in the world who knew, that weekend, that Stine COULD be pinned on Zodiac. Why the mad rush to mail the October 13 letter? To claim credit for Stine BEFORE IT COULD BE "SOLVED." Unlike BRS and LHR, "Zodiac" did NOT know for sure that Stine would go unsolved. Thus, the rush to print.
Now, that's pretty serious obstruction of Justice, as opposed to the ill advised attempts to bring about Justice in the LHR and BRS cases. Why? What was at stake? What if Zodiac failed to take credit for a Bay Area murder by the end of October, or whatever? Things in Napa were getting hot for Dennis Land. Was that the reason? If so, that would imply even more obstruction of Justice.
It's also obvious that the hoaxers DID get "caught," more or less, in October. Considering how much damage they had done to the Stine case, it's odd that Armstrong, who was dead sure Zodiac did not kill Stine (why? We don't know) didn't do SOMETHING about it beyond getting Power kicked out of HOJ. Except that, of course, prosecuting Power would mean proving Zodiac right—it was all too easy to tamper with investigations at SFPD.
So, did the hoax accomplish ANYTHING? Beyond giving Land an alibi for LB . . . ?
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Michael Butterfield
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Post by Michael Butterfield on Jan 8, 2015 14:28:04 GMT -6
Dien Bien Phu Buku Boo-Ya BÜ-KKÄKĒ! I AM DOOMED! Prof. Horan, you were correct! Here's a recent example of Voigt's penchant to withhold document evidence while feigning candor to his readers – even paid subscribers: zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/7401/Did-Arthur-Leigh-Allen-confess-TWICE[On Zodiackiller.com by Tom Voigt » Dec. 19, 2014, 7:45 AM] Did Arthur Leigh Allen confess TWICE -------------------------------------------------- "Below is an incredibly rare report detailing the 1972 search of Allen's trailer in Santa Rosa, Ca. (SFPD reports are notoriously hard to unearth.) In the report, Allen gives the name of someone he might have confessed to in advance of the Zodiac crimes...AND IT IS NOT Don Cheney! Did Allen tell TWO people he would soon become the Zodiac ?!?!?!?!?" -------------------------------------------------- SFPD reports are notoriously hard to unearth? Well, I suppose that's true from the perspective of paying forum subscribers who have a Web site Gollum sitting on a pile of seaweed that he's expediently used to bury his precious document re: a suspect whom for years the site administrator is on public record as dismissing DOZENS of times! Are we to assume that some desk-jockey at the SF Hall of Justice opened his Advent calendar window for December 18, 2014 and upon seeing a picture of Portland Tom in his flannel togs sitting under a fir tree, exclaimed: "Heck, we gotta gift-wrap and deliver our ol' Tom some more presents!" Look how the kowtowing posters to the thread (even Morf, I'm sorry to say), either momentarily obtuse, or not wanting to disturb Captain, Their Captain, don't bother to ask Tom how long he's had this "confess TWICE ... tell TWO people ... ?!?!?!?!?" (CAPS / multi-question mark / exclamation point-worthy) jewel of document. Voigt, when put on the "sport" in the same thread by one of his apple polishing yes-men asking about the viability of Allen: [On Zodiackiller.com by Tom Voigt » Dec. 22, 2014, 3:11 PM] -------------------------------------------------- "The important stuff rules him out, and all that is left is circumstantial. If Allen was the Zodiac I have to believe something would have matched." -------------------------------------------------- Tom Voigt is really shoveling that seaweed here. How many years has he been following real criminal cases, as opposed to TV — pun intended — CSI fictions? Circumstantial evidence of varying degree IS the IMPORTANT stuff to solve most crimes and/or obtain a court conviction. I do hate to put Tom on "the sport," but I believe that on the storm horizon, we can spot a wreck of a ship called THE GAIKOWSKI with tattered sails, barnacled rudder, depleted rum rations, attempting by degrees to reverse course while the rats scuttle overboard screeching, "Cut our losses! Hedge our bets!"
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 9, 2015 9:15:14 GMT -6
Voigt has claimed he has seen documents supplied by Bruton that have not been release otherwise. I don't beleve that, for several reasons, starting with, we're talking about Voigt. What I really think is, the reason more Stine pages have not been released is, they simply don't exist. SFPD never believed for one second that Stine's death was anything more than just another robbery by the same taxicab bandit who had been pulling that act that summer, and his gun probably went off by accident. I think they're right. So, there wouldn't be any more pages, since there was no reason to interview anyone but the three kids, and Pelissetti did that. There is an oblique mention in the Chronicle about double-checking the kids' descriptions of the shooter, but that's it. No one at SFPD even knew that Stine was shot with a 9mm "short" round (.380) instead of a 9mm "Luger" round until the ballistics lab in Sacramento told them. It also seems that no one noticed a huge piece of Stine's shirt was missing until "Zodiac" mailed a piece of it to the Chronicle.
The only "documents" I think Voigt got from Bruton were the July 25, 1997 photos of the shirt—the ones that were taken the same day the evidence from the Menicou murder was being processed in the lab. Bruton wasn't even a homicide inspector; he just nosed around the files. He and Voigt were planning to write a Zodac book "together." Ask Rodelli and Butterfield and Graysmith about having Voigt as a "partner."
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Post by captainobvious on Feb 6, 2015 22:14:47 GMT -6
I don't know how someone could believe Arthur Leigh Allen was responsible for the murders if they don't base their beliefs on what was written in a book by someone who would make money from the book and subsequent movie.
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Post by Admin Horan on Feb 9, 2015 12:21:56 GMT -6
Captain Obvious:
Thanks for commenting! Not only is Graysmith's frame around Allen total BS (Darlene's friend "Lee" was actually a woman, not a man. Etc, etc, etc) but his entire book is primarily a lie. In fact, this stumbling block to understanding what really happened is so important in the minds of readers, that I have been forced to change my plans. Instead of publishing the finished version of The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax of 1969 first, and then GZKH of 1986 second, I am now furiously typing the final manuscript for GZKH of 1986 now, and will publish it first. I hope to have it done by May or so, and both books done by August or so.
Unfortunately, I do not have quite enough ironclad evidence to flat out accuse Graysmith of actually writing the "second" batch of Zodiac letters (beginning with the November 9, 1969 bus bomb letter) so I can't qute squeeze that in the book. But otherwise, I can very definitively debunk nearly every page of ZODIAC using the very same files Graysmith claims he based his book on.
Again, the major points: 1. There is ZERO evidence linking ANY two of these murders to each other, let alone to a serial killer. 2. There were, in fact, GOOD suspects in each of these murders whom Graysmith NEVER mentioned. 3. The "suspects" he does mention are basically jokes, so far as possible guilt goes. 4. Again, his frame around Allen is not only ludicrous, it is in fact libelous (Allen was unable to sue, since he could not legally subpoena these documents) 5. His story of his own "investigation" into these murders and the letters is another pack of lies 6. His story of the Chronicle's involvement in the "investigation" is another pack of lies 7. The actual evidence tends to prove fairly convincingly that these murders could NOT have been linked in any way. 8. There is ZERO actual evidence to definitively link the letters to ANY actual murder, and Graysmith's claims otherwise are more lies 9. The author(s) of the letters state "facts" etc which the actual killer(s) COULD NOT have known 10. Graysmth not only knew all along that the Zodiac letters were a hoax, he in fact had to retract or edit out various other BS claims before his book was finally published.
Thanks again for commenting, and hang in there while I finish typing these books! Or, better yet, read these documents for yourself. The only "hard" thing about it was sorting, collating, and arranging them in chronological order (and, to be fair, others did recently dig up additional pages and newspaper clippings AFTER I started all of this) to make them comprehensible. Once properly sorted, it's easy to compare them to Graysmith's "book" and prove he's a total fraud. In fact, I have a PDF copy of the book with embedded annotations, but I can't publish that as is, since that would basically be plagiarism.
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Post by glurk on Apr 20, 2015 13:48:14 GMT -6
Michael Butterfield-
While I am more of a "cipher guy, programmer," and I do not know all of the factual details, dates, esoterica, etc, of the Zodiac killings, and such, I tend to agree with you. Although I post on boards as "glurk" it's simply an online name. I never intended to hide behind it as a pseudonym. Having read your statement, I think it is better to post as an actual person who must stand upon their word.
My name is Brax Sisco, I currently live in Kentucky, in the United States, and I personally support everything I say, or post online.
Will others do the same, be as forthright, I don't know.
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Michael Butterfield
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Post by Michael Butterfield on Apr 21, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -6
Kikkoman When He's Down Soy Sauce Bouillabaisse BÜ-KKÄKĒ!
I AM DOOMED!
Before I vamoose for good across the Arizona desert on whirlwind cartoon legs, let me ask: Did you hear that Morford acquired the domain name, "zodiackiller.net" and is considering migrating his dog & pony show and picnicking friends there?
I bet Morf's buddy, Tom Voigt is as pleased as the service worker who draws toilet valet duty for the asparagus growers' convention!
Furious Feets, DON'T FAIL ME NOW!!!! . . .
Th-th-th-THAT'S ALL FOLKS!
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 24, 2015 18:04:52 GMT -6
Okey dokey. BTW, the actual, finished, complete books will be available on Amazon June 2015. In fact, I am creating the "footnote" threads on this website as we speak.
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Post by gary stewart hoax on Oct 29, 2016 20:01:13 GMT -6
gary Stewart was Dump as a baby his mother and father - didnt want him ? Then his mother tells him some things. Could the mother be lying to him about his father so he would take all the blame? Which would let mother off hook? So how can Gary Stewart know anything at all ? Speculation? Gary Stewart didnt even know his own father -his mother says that Best was _____? Could the mother be lying cover up her lies?
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