If Kathy B. did tell the police that the boys were dropped off by her mom's friend the barteneder - it just adds a lot of questions to the list.
From the report taken by Ken Shanks between April 13-15 1981 (days after the murders) Kathy said that Pat Dorris told her that Donna said she took the boys to Keddie. So days after the murders Kathy had not told who drove the boys to Keddie. The PON list has Kathy listed as an old girlfriend of Dana's so her secret wasn't safe for very long - so did she tell the story back then when the police found out she had been seeing Dana?
If the bartender never told the police she took the boys home who was she protecting? Kathy? It's very coincidental that this bartender is the same person that Karl S. said would give him an alibi for 4-11-81. It's even stranger that this same bartender is the only one we know of who said Marty and Sue were dating. How long have the police known who took the boys home??
How would we know if Karl S. was at the bar or not if Judy L is the same person who took the boys home? Timeline A was titled, "Liars, Dopies, and Psychos" and we don't even have to wonder why. Oh, I forgot the cops were the ones lying and covering up! Really? I'd like to know if there is ONE person, JUST ONE, on the long PON list that we can even trust as being somewhat truthful! While everybody has obsessed over Bo saying he was a cop at age 4, seems there were lots more serious lies being told by a lot of other people.
Here are some of Karl S. ever changing stories (yes JMO in a few versions, there he is, sitting in his van, smoking pot, by the Keddie Pond, waiting for 2 cars (that he had some crazy impulse to follow into Keddie) to drive out.
Karl S. leaves Greenville at 10:00 pm and goes to a party at a trailer house in Meadow Valley. Saw “Dana” and his partner and a dark sedan with San Rafael license bracket and a little brown car. Says there was a keg of beer at the party. Saw what he thought was a drug deal going down. All six persons left the party in the two cars. He says he followed them to Keddie. In a later interview he says the party was a week before and gave other inconsistencies (note: the “Dana” above is not Dana Wingate).
Karl S. leaves the Greenville show and drives to Meadow Valley. He sees “Dana” and another man, “John” or “Jake,” and inside were two WMAs, well dressed, and two other WMAs. The six got into a dark blue LTD and a small car and Karl followed them to Quincy and then to Keddie. (9:30-10:00 pm)
Karl S. states that he saw Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate at Roger's party in Meadow Valley. He states that he had seen both boys about town before. That's how he knew them.
Karl S., while at a party in Meadow Valley, saw a "dark colored nice car" with "San Rafael" on the license plate holder. Two clean-cut men with photo-ray glasses were apparently selling dope from the car. Karl said that Johnny and Dana were at the party. He knew the boys from around town. He also knew Tina and Sue Sharp. The dark car and a small tan car left for Keddie possibly with the boys.
Karl S. stated that on the way to Keddie the dark Sedan had a flat on the left front wheel. The car had a square rear end with "San Rafael" on the license bracket. Just before Karl got to Keddie he saw the little brown car parked to the side of the road.
The brown car drove past the Sharp residence, then turned left down the hill. Karl doesn't know where it went. He didn't see any car lights anywhere. Karl stayed for about 15-20 minutes, then drove past the Sharp residence. The black car was still parked in the same place. There was a yellow bug light, which was lit, on the front of the Sharp house. He didn't see the brown car again.
Karl S. follows the two cars from Meadow Valley to Keddie. The blue LTD parks in front of the house just south of the Sharp residence. The small car went past the Sharps and turned left. Karl then drives his blue and primer ’67 Chevrolet van across the bridge to the pond and waits for the vehicles to come out. He waits long enough to smoke a “joint” and then leaves and drives to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville. He also admits making up parts of a previous statement to a deputy.
Karl S. stated that he followed the two cars to Keddie in his van. The blue LTD or similar car was parked in front of the residence just south of the Sharp residence. The light-colored small car drove past the Sharp residence and turned left. Karl drove past the blue car and the Sharp residence. He saw that the inside lights were on and the curtains were drawn and the orange porch light was on the front porch. Then Karl turned down the same street as the smaller car and he couldn't see it anywhere. Karl drove to the pond across the bridge and parked there to wait for the vehicles to come out. The vehicles never came out, so he left and went straight to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville. Approximate time: midnight. Reported to Stoy and Wright.
Karl S. stated that on his way back to Greenville was when he saw the black car with the flat tire. He thinks this was the same car he had seen the week before at Meadow Valley. When he got to the Keddie exit, he saw the small brown car parked just east of Keddie. This car was small, like a Vega, Datsun, or something similar. He thinks this is the same car that was at Meadow Valley the week before. Approximate time: 11:00-11:30 pm.
These were just statements so I can only imagine what he said in his entire interview! Here is what Josh posted about Karl not appearing on the documentary:
Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:09 pm #1
by jhancock » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:04 pm
Karl S. was originally going to be a part of Cabin 28: The Keddie Murders Part II. Many will recall that Karl was mentioned sporadically throughout the police timeline; he expressed to us that he had been repeatedly harassed by Plumas County police during the time of the murders. We had an interview day and time set up, but a gentleman we had previously interviewed took it upon himself to contact Karl's daughter "on our behalf." This young man frightened Karl's daughter, and because they both believed he was part of our team (he wasn't), Karl canceled the interview.
Here is a two-page report about Karl's experience. The date of the report 5-5-81:
I recontacted Karl S. by phone to confirm that he will take Deputy Wright to Meadow Valley and to arrange a hypnosis session with Sheriff Thomas. Prior to talking to him, however, I talked with his mother. She told me that she was waiting up for Karl on the morning of 4-12-81 and he arrived home around 0100 or 0130 hr. Also there was nothing she noticed unusual about him. She said he told her he was coming home from Quincy when he noticed a black or dark-colored LTD or similar car that had San Rafael on the license bracket along the side of the road (Hwy 70) between Keddie and the Greenville "Y." The vehicle had a flat tire so Karl stopped to help them. He said two people were inside and they well-dressed and so he changed the tire for them because he was dressed in his "grubbies." She said he thought it was unusual that those people were dressed the way they were happened to be at that location with a flat tire (Karl told his mother this that Sunday morning when he got home). His mother said that was about all she could remember about anything he had to say. I asked her if he mentioned a party in Meadow Valley and she said he didn't.
I then talked to Karl. He refused to give me any further cooperation in this case, stating he was afraid for himself and his children and that he can have witnesses testify that he didn't go to Quincy on Saturday 4-11-81. Also he said that is all he had to say and if he is asked to cooperate further he will obtain an attorney and file harassment charges against the S/O. Also that he will not take anyone to Meadow Valley and will not consent to a polygraph or hypnosis. By May '81 this case was already going in too many directions thanks to Karl, Chuck, Henry, Phillip, Justin and Marilyn! (Not to mention those closest to the family that they were no doubt trying to investigate).
Somebody finally asked 3 legitimate questions on 28 about the ride - although only one of their questions was "somewhat" answered. I hate to beat a dead horse but this horse has been alive and kicking for 36 years - and now that the ride has been confirmed we still have no name for who took the boys home. Why is that?
Post by Admin Horan on Dec 7, 2017 16:10:41 GMT -6
Also, how did the killers get OUT of Keddie? Refresh my memory--the only "suspect" vehicle we know of is the green and white blazer, right? Or maybe Craig Walter's brown whatyoucallit? Because the green blazer would fit a lot of people's stories, including Chief's.
When the younger boys went to bed (10:00pm) Sue was supposedly on the couch wearing her glasses, wearing her robe and did not have a blanket
The last recorded sighting of the Johnny and Dana was by Connie and Kevin around 11:00pm.
Mike G said, in the Plumas article, that the boys were picked up between 10:00pm - 1:00am.
The woman that took Johnny and Dana home said they went in through the front door of the cabin.
So with all of that in mind it would appear that the younger kids went to bed, the boys came home through the front door, Sue got up, went to the bedroom, took off her robe and glasses, got into bed (smoked a cigarette?).
Johnny and Dana were still fully clothed down to their shoes so it's very possible that they sat down to watch tv.
Since Sue's glasses and robe were still in the bedroom it appears that something (noise, scuffle) caused her to jump out of bed to go to the living room.
If Sue walked in on the boys being attacked it's very possible she ran to help them and stepped in somebody's blood, leaving her feet blood soaked.
It just doesn't appear that Sue was the target at all. It appears that Tina or Johnny/Dana were the target(s) and Sue got in the way. Somebody had all evening and into the night to attack Sue without the older boys there.
I've still got a lot of questions about the bartender/taxi. Mike G. said she said she dropped the boys off between 10:00pm and 1:00am. But she supposedly dispelled Karl's story of being at the bar so: A. Did she see Karl's van in Keddie (around 11:30-Midnight) B. Was she at the Pioneer Bar in Greenville at 12:00am C. Was she with Karl that night (which would mean she was in Keddie around 11:30pm-Midnight). The answer would pinpoint when the boys actually came home.
My other question is if the boys left Kathy's house around 6:30-7:30pm then why would her mother have called for them a ride at all since they obviously didn't get picked for 3-6 hours after telling Kathy around 6:30pm. -7:30pm. that they had to get home? Did they just hang around the Exxon for hours until the bartender picked them up? They could have walked to Keddie in 3 - 6 hours time so why did they wait around for this ride?? Or why was Kathy/her mother still worried about getting these boys a ride after 10:00pm?? They could have gone to the Meeks, the Dorrises, or called Sue Sharp so why in the world were they still wandering around town waiting on a ride to take them just 7 miles up the road?
The bartender/taxi's hours are anywhere from 10:00pm - 1:00am. Kathy said they left her house between 6:30pm - 7:30pm. and were seen several times (if the sighting are true) up until 11:00pm. The bartender couldn't narrow down the time she took them home any better than 3 hours?
Post by Admin Horan on Feb 21, 2019 8:25:17 GMT -6
Also, keep in mind--it's only 5.5 miles from the Exxon station to Keddie. They could easily have walked it.
Also, they don't seem to have been waiting for a ride to Keddie. Some people said they were riding back and forth to the park. It's also obvious that Wade stopped to talk to them on his way home from FRC, and probably dropped off Phillip at the same time. Then told his mother about it when he got home. Then lied to police about it. Why? Probably because the boys told him they were waiting for a SPECIFIC "ride" to show up.
Assuming Chuck and Henry left the Exxon station at 1:00ish Saturday afternoon (riiiiiight after Donna dropped off the boys, and before Sue picked them up. Right after Sheila talked to Henry's sister...) it would have taken them just about 4 hours to drive to Livermore, where what's-her-name said they stayed about 30 minutes, then another four hours back, puts them at the Exxon at juuuuust about 9:30--just about the time the boys "disappeared" from the Exxon.
IF Chuck and Henry picked up Johnny, Dana, and Phillip at the Exxon about 9:30 and drove them all to Tom S's cabin behind 28, and something went horribly wrong THERE, then THAT would explain Phillip's story, Chuck and Henry's stories, Wade's story, Dana's missing diabetic kit, Dana's odd post-mortem lividity, and just about everything else. No one "witness" ever told the same story twice, and no two witnesses ever told the same story, BUT there is one set of stories/obvious lies that DOES line up in a pretty straight line:
The older kids (including Sheila and Alyssa) planned to sneak out from "sleepovers" to go to a "party" at Tom's cabin. Johnny and Dana made arrangements with Chuck and Henry to swap some "blotter acid" for coke which Chuck and Henry picked up in Livermore. they met Johnny and Dana (and Phillip) at the Exxon and drove out to Keddie together. A roll of white tape fell out of Dana's pocket and somebody jumped to the (perhaps correct) drug-assisted conclusion he was "wearing a wire" and in the course of "interrogating" him accidentally choked him to death. In the mean time, party over, Sheila and Alysaa go back to the Seabolt's cabin.
The other guys may not have even noticed right away that Dana was dead. But somehow, Johnny was also bludgeoned with what seems to have been baseball bat. Now, Tom Chuck and Henry have a problem--they can't call an ambulance/police. So, why not take the boys to Cabin 28 and make it look like "something" happened there? It almost worked, except Sue woke up before they could finish up with Dana. So, they beat her into submission with the BB gun, tied her up, told Tina "If you come with us, we won't have to kill your mom," told the boys (Keep your mouths shut, and Tina will be okay," and Left. AFTER they left, Justin got the bright idea of "finishing off" Sue (DNA from his skin cells was apparently found on the STICKY side of the tape around her mouth) and he went back to bed. Or, maybe more likely, he helped Chuck and Henry and the WAITED AROUND IN CABIN 28 UNTIL KEDDIE DIED DOWN AFTER 2:00AM, say 4:00am, and then took Tina out to the Feather Falls campground, possibly in the "care" of Chuck's brother Cary. She ran off and hid near Camp 18 and died of hunger/exposure. When they went back to get her/bring her food/whatever, she was "gone" and they couldn't call the cops about THAT, could they? (Or, of course, it's possible she was also strangled the same way, by the same person, as Dana, but why not BURY the body?) It was more than three years until Greg and Ricky found out Tina was dead. By that time, who can blame them for not talking?
That would explain pretty much everything. Except one thing--why didn't ANYONE search the basement??? How did Sheila KNOW Tina wasn't hiding in the basement? She didn't look, the police didn't look, the crime scene experts from DOJ didn't look. No one looked. AT ALL.
As for the basement, I do believe that it was checked for evidence (maybe there just wasn't anything in there). We're under the assumption that the basement was Johnny's "bed" room but we have nothing to back that up plus the boys bedroom upstairs contained 3 beds. The Stoy Report states, "The search continued both inside and outside the residence for the following six days."
Yes, there's a lot we will never know unless somebody comes forward with the truth. It would be helpful to know what time the boys were picked up, location where the boys were picked up, what time they were dropped off at Cabin 28, and who picked them up/dropped them off. We may not know the answers but I'd be willing to be the police do.
Post by Admin Horan on Feb 21, 2019 20:39:56 GMT -6
Well, IF anyone checked the basement--and remember, they didn't notice the bloody fingermarks on the post outside the basement door--IF anyone searched basement, then that's another report that's "missing." But there are NO mentions of the basement in ANY reporting officers report. None.
"When a man lies, he murders some part of the world." —Paul Gerhardt
True, but the only reports we have from the day of the murders are (courtesy of Josh Hancock) the Shaver and Stoy Report and a supplemental report by Forcino. We only know from reading these two reports that Shaver, Stoy, Klement, Brubaker, Shanks, Thomas, and Forcino were all there (just don't know if anyone else wrote a report or if anyone else was there).
It's possible that there was so much evidence in the basement that the PCSO never allowed Josh to see it, or there was nothing there. All we have is what Josh was able to see or what Josh choose to make public.
Back to "The Ride" - we also don't have any statement from Kathy Beckley's mother (who supposedly called Kathy for dinner) but hopefully it's in the case files.