Rick's interview 4-13-81

R: "No..... Maybe that was just inside. Tina was outside riding her bike."

Crimely: After, After you got back to the house, did you ever see your older brother?
Rick: Yes
C: When was that?
R: Oh, about ten minutes later.
C: What happened then?
R: He started working on the yard.... Yeah, I remember... This was... Yeah, it was after, I think.
C: That John showed up?
R: What?
C: That John... That's your brother's name?

R: Yeah.
C: That he came to the house?
R: Yeah.
C: This was in the afternoon?
R: Yeah.
C: Did he come by himself?
R: No. Dana and then J came over.
C: K. What'd they do?
R: They worked out in the yard with my mom.

Crimely: After, After you got back to the house, did you ever see your older brother?
Rick: Yes
C: When was that?
R: After I got home, about ten minutes later.
C: What occurred then?
R: What?
C: What happened then?
R: He started working on the yard.... They were... No, this issssss...This.... [5s] Yeah, this was after, I think.
C: That John showed up?
R: What?
C: John... is your brother's name?
R: Yeah.
C: He came to the house?
R: Yeah.
C: This was in the afternoon?
R: Yeah.
C: Did he come by himself?
R: No. Dana Wingate came with him.
C: K. What'd they do?
R: They worked out in the yard with my mom. Raked up all the leaves and stuff.
C: And, apparently, they subsequently... They left after that?
R: Yes.
C: Do you know, did they say where they were going or anything?
R: Shhhh... I don't know.
C: Well, they didn't say anything to you, about where they were going or...
R: Hmm-mm
C: Do you know what time they left?
R: Mmm... (7 second pause) Two.
C: About two? Umm, did either of 'em have a car, or?
R: Nope. They hitch-hiked.
C: That was their normal mode of transport, huh?
R: Yep.
C: But you don't know where they were going that afternoon, Saturday afternoon?
R: No.
C: Um, who are some of John's friends?
R: Richard, Walter...
C: Richard, Walter?
R: Meeks. Both Meeks.
C: and, uh
R: mmm... John Baze, but he has a broken leg.
C: Is that the son of the friend of your mother's?
R: Yeah.
C: So he don't get around much right now though, huh? Did they eat dinner there at the house then that night?
R: Hmm-mm
C: Your brother, or... Does he have any other friends?
R: I don't know. I don't know his friends.
C: Where did... Did John go to school?
R: Yeah.
C: At the high school there?
R: Yeah.
C: That's in Quincy, isn't it?
R: Yes.
C: Where's your school located? Is that in Quincy, also?
R: Yes.
C: Umm, After they left in the afternoon, around 2 o'clock, you never did see 'em again?
R: Nuh-uh.
C: You recall what happened around the place Friday?
R: I don't remember.
C: Did you go to school Friday?
R: Yes, then my mom came to pick me up, to get my glasses. No, that was Thursday.R: Yeah, I did.
C: Ok, and you took the bus home? On Friday afternoon?... Did your mother work?
R: Hmm-mm, she doesn't work.
C: On Friday when you got home, was she home?
R: Yes.
C: Did she have any visitors Friday night?
R: Hmm-mm.
C: [6 sec pause] You know most people 'round Keddie?
R: No. Only my friends.
C: Does your mother talk to your dad very often?
R: Nuh-uh.
C: Your dad call you kids every once in a while?
R: Huh-uh.
C: [tapping table] I'm trying to think of something else here. Uhhh... Let's go back to Mr Baze. What's his first name? John?
R: Joe.
C: How long has it been since your mother's seen him, or went out with him?
R: About a month or two.
C: Did she confide in you that she got rid of him because he drinks, or did you hear that from someone else?
R: No, I heard that from someone else.
C:Who was that?
R: Sheila.
C: Sheila. And that was because he drank, huh?
R: Mm-hmm
C: Did she ever complain about him being mean to her or anything?

C: You take a bus to school and a bus back. You recall if you went to school on Friday? At all?
R: Yeah, I did.
C: Ok, and you took the bus home? On Friday afternoon?... Did your mother work?
R: Hmm-mm, she doesn't work.
C: On Friday when you got home, was she home?
R: Yes.
C: Did she have any visitors Friday night?
R: Hmm-mm.
C: [6 sec pause] You know most people 'round Keddie?
R: No. Only my friends.
C: Does your mother talk to your dad very often?
R: Nuh-uh.
C: Your dad call you kids every once in a while?
R: Huh-uh.
C: [tapping table] I'm trying to think of something else here. Uhhh... Let's go back to Mr Baze. What's his first name? John?
R: Joe.
C: How long has it been since your mother's seen him, or went out with him?
R: About a month or two.
C: Did she confide in you that she got rid of him because he drinks, or did you hear that from someone else?
R: No, I heard that from someone else.
C:Who was that?
R: Sheila.
C: Sheila. And that was because he drank, huh?
R: Mm-hmm
C: Did she ever complain about him being mean to her or anything?
R: I don't know.
C: OK, we'll probably talk to Sheila about that. [8 sec pause. Bradley to Crim, referring to the cassette recorder] Is that still going on the same side?
B: Yeah. Not much left though.
C: You know the... Is the house normally locked?
R: No.
C: It's seldom locked.
R: Yeah.
C: [7 seconds] Did you brother spend many nights away from home? John? Or does he?
R: He did. Umm, mostly on Sat... weekends.
C: He's not home, huh?
R: Some... Sometimes he's home. [8s] Most of the... Most of the time... he's out... He's out with his friends.
C: He doesn't come home, huh?
R: Cuz mom's... Cuz my mom is (several unintelligible words).
C: Huh. (5s) Does Tina ever do that?
R: No. Just askses.
C: Huh?
R: No. Just askses.
C: Huh?
R: If she can stay over at somebody's house.

C: [7 seconds] Did you brother spend many nights away from home? John? Or does he?
R: He did. Umm, mostly on Sat... weekends.
C: He's not home, huh?
R: Some... Sometimes he's home. [8s] Most of the... Most of the time... he's out... He's out with his friends.
C: He doesn't come home, huh?
R: Cuz mom's... Cuz my mom is (several unintelligible words).
C: Huh. (5s) Does Tina ever do that?
R: No. Just askses.
C: Huh?
R: If she can stay over at somebody's house.

End of Side A

Side B:

C: This tape is turned over to side #2, and we'll continue...
OK, uh- We're kinda confused about one thing, uh... When you, uhhh... You say you're mother received a phone call Saturday afternoon
R: Mm-hmm.
C: And that was from...?
R: Nina.
C: Nina. All these names are gettin me, yeah? From Nina. Saying what?
R: I think that Johnny- They'd be home... That Johnny and Dana would be home.
C: Did... Where did Daniel [sic] live, did he live with Nina?
R: In a foster home.
C: That Nina didn't run the foster home. (8s) That John and Dana ran around with Nina's sons?
R: Yeah. (5s) Johnny most of the time. Mostly.
C: (15s) Why don't we turn that off for a minute. So we can get our thoughts together here.

C: In a thing like this, we'll be talkin' to a lot of people and we'll learn things as we go along, and... we might have to come back and talk to you again. To clarify something. (5s) uhh... In any ot the things... Can you think of anything that we didn't... You think is important we haven't asked you? About your activities Saturday and Friday?
R: No
C: OK. Let's go over this a little bit more on Joe. T... To the best of your knowledge, the last time your mom had anything to do with Joe was about a month or so ago.

R: Yeah.
C: And the reason she doesn't go with him anymore is because, Sheila had told you...
R: He drank.
C: He drank too much, so she just didn't see him anymore. Is that right? And who's, who was the other associate of your mother's?
R: Dareyl.
C: Dareyl. And don't [garbled, unintelligible] for his next name, cuz I don't know it. Did he live next to you?
R: He lives right up the street from me.
C: Mm-hmm. Your uncle wouldn't know something about him, would he?
R: Yeah, cuz he works with him. At the railroad.
C: Does she have any other friends? That she dated?
R: Not that I know of.
C: Did she go out... Much? Nnn...You know? [mqn opens door, enters room] How ya doin? Pretty good!

[tape stops]
[tape restarts]
C: Darely and Joe... Have any other friends?
R: I have no idea.
C: That you've seen, anyway?
R: huh-uh.
C: Never heard her talk about anybody, mention any other men's names or anything?
R: No.
C: What about... Has Joe ever been to the house?
R: Yeah. Once.
C: One time.
R: Once or twice. I don't know. [7s]
C: What about Dareyl? Has he been... down there?
R: Yeah, once, when he took my mom out.
C: Has that been recent?
R: What do you mean?
C: What I mean, has that been a short time ago, or...?
R: no.
C: Do you know when?
R: no. But... couple weeks ago.
C: What kind of guy is he? Do you know much about him?
R: Huh-mm... All I know is he works at the, uh, railroad.
C: Mm-hmm. His last name is what?
R: I don't know.
C: You don't know his last name. Does he have any kids?
R: [5s] I have no idea.
C: Uhhh, do you, umm... Do you know, uhh [5s] If your mother went out, where she normally went to?
R: Yeah. Back Door.
C: Right there in Keddie, huh? Did she go down there often?
R: No.
C: No. And when she did go, that's the place she goes, huh? [9s] To your knowledge, would there be, uh... Would there be anything in your house, uh... That would be worth a burglar coming in there to get?
R: Our TV, and my brother's radio, and the telephone.
C: What, what telephone you talkin' about?
R: The brown one.
C: What phone? The one that's... The one that's in the front room? The one you would normally use to make a phone call?
R: The only one we got.
C: The TV, the phone, and what else?
R: My brother's tape recorder.
C: Didja have any guns in the house?
R: No.
C: Didn't no any guns at all. No. What kind of tape recorder is it?
R: It's a Sony FM & AM radio / cassette tape
C: Sony FM & AM
R: ...radio / cassette tape
C: Where'd he... Where'd he come up with that, you know?
R: What?
C: Where'd he obtain that from?
R: The store.
C: Which store was that?
R: I don't know.
C: Uh... [something being knocked about in the backgroound, someone mumbling] How big was that?
R: [making gestures] About that big and that wide...
C: About... Pretty good size? About
R: Yeah.
C: Bout 12 by 8 or ten?
R: I guess.
C: What color was it?
R: Black. And white.
C: Did he have a lot of tapes?
R: Yeah.
C: Where'd he...
R: Not there, but... my mom had a couple tapes. Country tapes and stuff like that. And he had a couple of his tapes there.
C: Where'd he keep the radio?
R: I think last time was downstairs.
C: I've been... I been round your house a little bit, but whereabouts would that be? Down in the back in the basement area?
R: In the basement.
C: Did he stay down in the basement sometimes?
R: Yeah, when we moved there, he selpt down there.
C: That's the place where he normally slept? When was the last time that you saw that radio?
R: That... Friday I think. Or Saturday. I don'...
C: Did they have it out, playin' music when they were doing the yard work?
R: Yeah. Yes they did.
C: Knowin' kids, they like to listen to that music. Did your mother have any expensive jewelry that you know of?
R: Nope.
C: Uhh... It might be some help, y'know... If you could think where he, where he bought that.
R: The only place I think he got it from was Western Auto.
C: Here in Quincy?
R: Yes. On Main Street.
C: How long has he had that?
R: About [8s] year and a half.
C: So it's not a new radio or...
R: Hmm-mm.
C: Did he normally take it with him when mmm...?
R: Nuh-uh.
C: Just kept it around the place there.
R: Yeah.
C: I remember downstairs into the basement there, there's kinda two rooms.
R: Yeah.
C: Which one, did he sleep in the one with the little blue light or green light up there? [10s, then very light whispering] Uh... [4s] Y'know, we're just asking a lot of questions, trying to learn everything that we can learn, and I don't, I don't mean to...make you, make you mad if I ask you a question about your brother. Do you know if he took any drugs or anything?
R: Yes. He was.
C: He was.
R: He smoked.
C: Smoked marijuana.
R: No. Yes, sometimes but he smoked cigarettes.
C: Take any kind of pills that you know of?
R: Hmm-mm.
C: But he smoked cigarettes.
R: Yes.
C: And, sometimes, marijuana?
R: And sometimes drinks.
C: Mmm-k, and how bout Dana?
R: He, uhh He was drunk that night. That's what I heard.
C: Who told you that?
R: Sheila, I think.
C: [10s] Did they, did they bring booze home or... Or what?
R: Hmm-mm.
C: I didn't see any [unintelligible], I didn't see any bottles or cans of beer or anything sittin'
around. Do you think your mother would put up with that, or what?
R: No, she wouldn't like that. Yes, she wou, No, she.. I don'
C: [chuckles]
R: She wouldn't have it around the house.
C: Yeah, okay. [10s] Uhhh... [5s] But other than the radio, the TV, and the phone there, there was nothing for anyone to steal, for someone to come in and steal?
R: Yeah. [He then says something unintelligible about the location of Sue's diamond ring]
C: Did she where 'em or did she [unintelligible]
R: yeah.
C: She wore 'em?
R: No. A couple of 'em, and she put them in the bathroom cupboard.
C: The bathroom cupboard?
R: Mm-hmm.
C: They were diamonds?
R: Yeah, I think. They looked like it.
C: Now, you talked to Sheila about this a bit, since it happened?
R: No, not much.
C: When you, did you all come over here? Since Saturday? You all been here? [unintelligible] How old's Sheila?
R: 14. Almost 15.
C: I think we'd better talk to Sheila. Yeah. Where is she?
R: [unintelligible]
C: We oughta wait then. Any minute now. Y'know, it also helps... Helps US to do a better job... if you don't discuss what you've told us with other people. See, because, what YOU, if you talk to him and tell him what you remember, and if you talk to me and tell me what you remember, y'know, you put ideas in my head, then I say the same thing. So that's why we like to talk to people separately. To get exactly what you remember, and exactly what she remembers, without you cross, crossing each others' minds up. See what I mean? Cuz I might put ideas in your head that you never even had if I tell you what I saw. So that's why we like to talk to people separate like that. We'd be thankful if you don't talk to anybody about any of this, really. Ok? That'd be a big help to us.
R: OK.
C: Uh. Do you know... Have you any ideas why anybody would want to do something like this to your...
R: Hm-mm. No ideas.
C: None at all.
R: No.
C: Have you thought about that much?
R: Yeah...
C: I suppose you have, to figure who would do something like that? Did you have any, uh... Uhhh..

What all did your mother keep in the bathroom? Did she have, uh...
R: Games. Uh...her perfume... n, like...
C: Perfume and cosmetics, that type of thing?
R: Yeah.
C: Hmm?
R: Mmm.
C: Medicine? Did you say? What kind of medicine? Yeah. You had a medicine kit or something?
R: now es just have some bottles of medicine. Cough medicine, stuff like that.
C: Did you have band-aids?
R: No.
C: What'd you do if you got hurt? [chuckles] Did you happen to have a bandage?
R: We just went... went to a friend.
C: Didn't keep any bandaids n gauze or tape or anything like that around, ehh?
R: No. We had some... Tape.
C: Where was that at?
R: That was in the bathroom.
C: What kind of tape was that?
R: White.

C: Was it wide tape or narrow tape or?
R: [apparently gesturing] That... So...
C:Maybe half inch wide or something. Where was that kept, in the closet? I mean, the medicine cabinet?
R: yeah.
C: Was that a big roll of tape?
R: No... Kept very little of that tape.
C: [10s of shuffling stuff around on the table] Why don't we take a break right now?

[Tape stops]
[Tape starts] We're gonna terminate this interview, approximately 10:19 AM.