Post by hope on May 6, 2021 8:39:45 GMT -6
Time to say how i really feel lol.
As long as this post below is, I know I missed some things. Please, everyone feel free to correct anything I have wrong or you may disagree with. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and get some conversations going.
I cant help but feel that there is a huge injustice going on with this case. I don't know who committed this crime, I just hope it can be solved one day, via real hard evidence.
So much out there is based on the opinion and deductions of one person. I see things differently than the "prevailing theory" and I wonder how everyone else feels. I wish people could discuss the case and their opinions freely. And I wish people interested in the case would do their own research via the actual reports, not one person's take on things.
I don't really have a set theory & do not know who killed the Sharps & Dana. I don't care if its proven it was MMB. I do know there is no physical evidence tying them to it. And at least a dozen people have been named as involved and called murderers with no proof. I guess I'd rather not accuse people of murder without some hard evidence to back that up. It's such a sad case. I just hope one day the families can have justice & closure. With today's technology & DNA, I don't know why it's not possible.
Anyway, where to begin lol. I'm just going to go off the top of my head and write things down as I think of them Here goes:
• Wearing suits to stand out in the bar & establish their alibi. Not necessary, everyone knew everyone in Keddie + Marty worked upstairs in the restaurant so people knew who he was.
• The music change. It does appear there was a change in music that night & not just some story they made up. "The Eric Roy Show" is listed in the FRB as the entertainment at that bar that weekend. From the timeline:
• 810412-0100c Eric Roy, Bobby Jester & Lisa Hensel quit playing records at the Back Door Bar. <Bobby Jester / Crim>
• They leave the bar & return home for a short period. This is when they supposedly start their attack at 28 but someone screams so they have to leave and return to the bar to reestablish their alibi. In this short window of time Dmac claims they went home to change out of their suits, go to 28, start the attack, return home to put their suits back on (minus their vests) and back to the bar. Yet no one sees any blood on them while at the bar( Guess they had time to shower too?) or reports them behaving strangely.
• And they leave Marilyn at 28 to keep an eye on the scene? I find this impossible to believe. According to him at least Sue is still alive + 3 small boys in the bedroom, Johnny kind of & maybe even Tina, since no one knows for sure when she was taken/killed. He says because of where Sue's chest wound was she had to have been bound after being stabbed/killed. So Sue isn't bound yet and she didnt take this as an opportunity to fight back, make some noise, alert the neighbors somehow?
• According to reports & autopsy findings, Dana died first & based on lividity he was in a sitting position for sometime before being placed face down on the floor/cushion. This is what the autopsy results & investigators determined during examination. Dmac is the one who claims that is not true, based on his findings.
• Johnny was most likely killed next because we know Sue walked through someone's blood. There was blood on the bottom of her feet & bloody footprints at the scene. So she was not bound at this point. Just my opinion, but it appears like perhaps she was in her bedroom, heard some commotion & came into the living room, tried to aide Johnny.
• The boys had no defensive wounds but Sue did. It appears the boys were attacked first, Sue came into the scene and was attacked & bound.
• The love letter. I think it was just that, a love letter. The full letter is never shown. Just those few lines, which do sound incriminating own their own but not when read in its full context. He is talking about his kids, basically how he took care of Marilyn & her kids but gave up his kids for her. He calls them the most precious things and his flesh & blood. It's been said Marty had 5 kids. But in the statement Marilyn's Aunt Joan gave, she says Marty had 6 kids with his ex and she believes most of them are in foster care. The officer taking her statement names his ex wife & says that she has 3 kids with Marty. So who knows what the exact circumstances with his kids were at the time with the ex, foster care, etc.
The letters, in their entirety can be found here: zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/126/martin-smartt-love-letters
And the report of LE's interview with Marilyn's aunt can be found here:
zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/164/phone-call-joan-andrews
• Marilyn- it appears as if Marilyn was looking for a way out of her marriage to Marty. She most likely was already having an affair with Wade. Finding out Marty was having an affair probably would have been a God send to her. A reason to leave him. Not a reason for her to force him to kill a family to prove his love for her. While her son was spending the night no less. I'm sure she was terrified the morning of the murders & wanted out of Keddie asap. It maybe even crossed her mind if Marty & Bo could be responsible. But I think more than anything she took it as chance to get out of her marriage. Little did she know that 30 years later her lies & exaggerations would lead people to accuse her of being the mastermind of the murders.
• Based on newly released reports & statements, Justin also spend that Friday night at cabin 28. Because of this, I feel it is more likely MMB knew Justin would br spending Saturday night at the Sharps. We can't assume his presence at 28 was a complete surprise to MMB. It actually seems more likely they knew he would be spending the night at 28 and therefore not plan an attack on Sue, knowing their son would be in the cabin that night. Where did they think he was, if he wasn't at home prior to leaving for the bar at 10pm that night? They knew he was spending the night next door with his friends.
• Marty's missing hammer. I don't hold much weight on this. Again, dmac is the one who decided 2 different hammers were used. The pathologist never stated that in his findings. It would be nice to know if PCSO had a second opinion on the autopsy results. Did they confer with a Pathologist to see if a second hammer was used? If not, the hammer found in the pond 35 years later is all for nothing, doesnt matter, as it may not have anything to do with the homicides. It is odd he said his hammer was missing during his interview. The investigators let that slip by, not because they were corrupt, but because they knew the actual hammer had been left at the scene. Marty bringing up his missing hammer could show that he didn't know a hammer/murder weapon had been left inside 28 by the killers. I'm sure the officers made note of his comment.
• Also, these weren't formal interrogations of Marty & Bo. LE were speaking to neighbors, people who were at the bar that night, possible witnesses, etc. Finding out if anyone saw or heard anything that could be helpful to the investigation. It's said they were interviewed together, seems more like Marty walked in at the very end of Bo's interview. It was being conducted in the banquet room at the keddie restaurant and Marty was interviewed after Bo. Bo's interview was at 10:27am & Marty's at 11:25am, on April 14, 1981.
• Another odd statement, Bo makes sure to tell LE he is impotent during his interview. Almost as if he assumes Sue was raped, which she wasn't.
• Regarding Marty's "slip up"/"confession" during his interview, where he says "Its possible he may have been alerted to something without me detecting him ". This is also taken out of context. If you read the entire transcript of that interview, it shows Marty says this after being asked if it's possible Justin saw inside the house, through the open front door that morning, after the murders were discovered & police were investigating the scene. Unfortunately for Marty his grammar was not the best. However, in addition to this, the section of recording shown on part 2 of the documentary has purposely been cut to make it appear "more guilty". If you compare the audio from the documentary to the actual transcript you will find this is true. Why not upload the entire interview, in full it's context???
• Not to mention, investigators know during attacks such as what happened in 28, there is a good chance the perpetrator injured themselves. Therefore, one can assume they were looking for injuries to the hands, etc of Bo & Marty during these interviews. PCSO put out a request out to local hospitals to let them know if anyone receives care for such injuries. The photo of the cabinet door removed from the bathroom, it looks as if there is blood dripping down it. Could there be suspect DNA there?
• Back to the hammer, why would Marty throw it in the pond of all places? Its said they carried Tina over the swinging bridge that night, why wouldn't they drop it into the large creek/river below at that time? Or take it with them to Camp Eighteen? A knife was also found in a completely different place around the same time as the hammer, so same questions. Why hide evidence all around Keddie in different places: the hammer, the buck knife, the bloody tissues & swiss army knife, the pink jumpsuit. All found in different places, while also having Tina's body to dispose of? And he did all of this without being seen? While people were out & about, returning home from the bar, etc.
• Marty & Bo had no car. So to get around this problem in the theory other people needed to be included to make it work. That's where some of these other names come into play. They took Tina over the swinging bridge and left her in a gully until the next morning when Marty's friend could pick up Marty & Bo + Tina's body, stop by the Meeks & then drive all the way out to nowhere and leave Tina?
Except it wasnt the next morning. It was actually Monday 4/13/81 that Marty, Bo, & Dee took that trip to Reno. So, that would mean they left her body in some gully for 2 days, not overnight. And it appears MMB had no connection to Camp Eighteen. Whoever did the murders had to have been familiar with that area.
• While at the Meeks house Marty said they were going to Reno, either for car parts or to go to the VA Hospital. Marty had his weekly visits with his therapist on Mondays in Reno at a VA clinic (not a hospital). During Marty's police interview he tells them he was out of town the previous day...Marty's interview took place on Tues. 4/14/81...which means that car ride actually took place on Monday 4/13/81, not Sunday 4/12. Or did they leave Tina in a gulley for 2 days?? And at some point search dogs were brought in but could find no trace of Tina. I don't buy that Tina was taken to throw off the investigation. They weren't criminal masterminds. Plus that adds a lot of risk walking around Keddie, over a bridge, carrying a body, then leaving her somewhere and then returning to that spot, to then drive to a new location with a body.
• The therapist confession. According to the therapist Marty claimed he killed Tina with a hammer. We know this isn't true. The report I've seen (I will try to find it & link it below) the therapist told his neighbor (who was also a Psychiatrist) that a patient confessed to him. The neighbor said he was going to inform the authorities & Marty's therapist said he didnt want him to. I know the whole story about the therapist believing Marty & the sheriff were friends. But it appears that the neighbor is the one who contacted the authorities, not Marty's therapist. A 12 year old girl was missing at this point!! The therapist also said he always had an interest in LE & became a cop later. He claims he assumed Marty was arrested. I find it hard to believe the case never crossed his mind, he never saw any news articles about it, never discussed it with any of his fellow officers, etc. If Marty did confess to the therapist then his confession isnt supported by the evidence. And he is not the only person to have confessed. Below is the transcript of a report regarding the therapist which was shown in part 2 of the documentary. Please note, the therapist interviewed in the documentary is "the friend at ___", not the psychiatrist who contacted LE with information:
In addition to this document, a reporter named Joshua Seabold wrote an article after seeing the documentary. In his article he states he was shown, by PCSO, a report stating the DOJ did follow up on the therapist's statments but found it was actually hearsay & not a direct confession. (I will look for this article & link it here).
• The newest revelation - the person who rode the boys home that night coming forward after 35+ years. Same thing as above, a 12 year old girl was missing!!! They didnt think it was important to tell the police this in 81??? Who rode the boys home was always one of the biggest mysteries of this case. It was mentioned in every single news article. Coming forward back in 81 would have saved the police a lot of wasted time trying to figure out how the boys got home. It would have helped them know which direction to turn their attention to. But this person did not come forward in 81. Or for for the next 35+ years. She is connected to an unreliable woman who was almost 30 years old and having an affair with 17 year old Dana. That woman also did not tell police her friend rode the boys home. They asked her. She said she was supposed to ride them home but didn't have gas & then she told them she heard a completely different person rode the boys home. Why the lies? She is also the one who started the rumor that Tina was pregnant by Marty. The friend said she didn't tell because she didn't want this woman getting in trouble for her affair with an underage Dana. But LE already knew about the affair & that the boys were at her apartment that evening. So why hide the ride if this friend really did ride them home? Can't say I'm convinced that's how the boys got home that night.
• Also, remember circa 2009 - 2010, PCSO claimed they knew who rode the boys home? Is this the same person?? That info has never been expanded on or discussed with the new ride information, so who knows. Doesn't sound like it though. Sounds like this person was someone uncovered by Gamberg. Someone whose story was confirmed by an unreliable woman, Kathy Beckley, who lied for 35+ years. And this xxx bartender also happened to be the only person who supposedly said Marty & Sue were having an affair, which tied everything together nicely. Almost like it fit their theory so they decided it was true. Again, 35+ years of lies connected to one of these people, yet all of a sudden they are believable? An almost 30 year old woman, having relations with a 17 year old boy, making her way into the halls of the high school to confront the 14/15 year old girl Dana was seeing over a necklace? A woman who spread rumors that Tina was pregnant by Marty, that Marty ate puppies, & in 1981 told PCSO that she heard a completely different person rode the boys home that night??? Sorry if I don't find her current revelations believable.
Here are 2 old comments where the ride was discussed back then. Was this person xxx bartender? Or someone else? According to 28 Gamberg is the one who reached out to xxx bartender & Kathy and was told of the ride home. That was in 2017? & he was reaching out to xxx bartender regarding Marty & Sue's relationship. The ride home just happened to be brought up by bartender x as well. These comments below are from before Gamberg's time as special investigator. It doesn't seem like xxx bartender is the same person as the ride PCSO claimed to know of back in 2009-2010. Who really rode the boys home that night ?
• Justin's DNA on the tape. He told LE in 81 that he tried to stop bleeding on Sue so isnt it possible he removed a piece of tape rather than applied it? There is also supposedly another DNA hit but they haven't released who. And mention of minor amount of female DNA on the brown electrical cords on sue.
• They have DNA on Marty, Marilyn, & Dee. We know Marilyn & Dee voluntarily submitted their DNA. They obtained Marty's DNA from the love letters. And they attempted to get familial DNA on Bo through family members. I think we can assume the DNA hit did not belong to any of these people because Dmac & maybe even PCSO would have no problem saying it belonged to them. They've already publically named them as suspects.
• The boys were forced to participate - I don't believe this. You'd think they would have had blood on themselves or their clothes when they were pulled from the window that next morning. But they didn't.
• Tina - However she left the cabin, whether willing or unwillingly, she was fully dressed including her jacket & boots. She is said to have slept in her clothes often. But sleeping in your jeans & tshirt is one thing, I used to do that too, I doubt she slept with her jacket & boots on.
• Boot prints - PCSO must have some evidence not made public. During an interview with Marilyn they question her if Bo had hiking boots. She says not that she is aware of. Marty & Bo wore suits that night. There have been rumors of boot prints found at the scene for years, since Josh made the documentary. In the crime scene photos, specifically the one of the couch cushion with the cover removed, there do appear to be boot prints. And they appear rather small to me.
• I don't know why the 3 younger boys have kept quiet all these years. I personally think either 1. they did hide in their bedroom & aren't really sure who was in the cabin that night. 2. It is someone they are still scared of to this day or 3. They were keeping quiet to protect someone they cared about.
• There was lots of talk & rumors of drugs, "acid parties", the boys being involved in a drug rip off. Enough talk that it can't be discounted as a possibility. You can read the PON list linked below to see what people were saying back then.
• The 911 call re: Tina's remains. It is often said Tina's remains were found on the 3rd anniversary of the murders. Or that the 911 call was received "exactly on the 3 year anniversary of the murders". Neither of these statements are true. The 911 call was received in June 1984. The remains were found in April 1984. Butte County Sheriff's Office via the local paper asked the public to phone in any tips because they were having a hard time identifying the remains & believed they belonged to a younger Male. The 911 call has been released in its entirety. The person asks if the girl missing from Keddie several years ago was considered. Of course the Keddie murders were a huge story at the time, I don't know why BSCO didn't consider Tina but for whatever reason they did not consider the remains would be hers. The person who called 911 did not say anything suggesting they had inside knowledge as it has been portrayed. They were simply calling in a tip, as the public was asked to do. Unfortunately, they will never come forward now since they were immediately named as a suspect & of having inside knowledge of the Keddie Murders.
• The members of PCSO, DOJ, FBI are all corrupt. I dont see this. Maybe someone came help me out here lol? Seems like Doug Thomas did the right thing by calling in for help from the DOJ & FBI asap. Every article I've read where Don Stoy is interviewed, he said things such as this is the one case he hopes to see solved, he thinks it can be solved, and that he thought about the case everyday for years. Doesn't sound corrupt to me.
• Gamberg claims he was warned off the case by Doug Thomas. This is impossible because Gamberg was fired from PCSO prior to the murders and Doug Thomas resigned as sheriff long before Gamberg was reinstated. You can read the dates in the newspaper archives. And since he was not part of the original investigative team he does not know what leads were or were not followed up on before he was on the case in 2013. To me, it appears he want this case to involve outsiders and that his personal grudges against Doug Thomas may be distorting his perception. This is a reddit comment from Dmac that sums it up pretty well:
www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/91kd33/the_keddie_cabin_murders/
Whiskycharlie12b
2y
I think I speak for all of plumas county when I say we all want some closure on this... these kind of things don’t happen there. This was well before I was born, but it’s still horrifying that someone(s) got away with this in such a quiet Mountain community...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
keddie28
2y
One thing that really angers me is a side effect of the increased interest in the case has caused an influx of assholes and gawkers: gorehounds. As Mike Gamberg and I have often said, we want to properly close this case to bring closure, to prove a few outsiders and assholes did the murders, and a very corrupt amalgam of asshole pigs covered it up. The decades of corruption in PCSO were never higher than the years of Thomas, Shanks, DeCrona, hell even one of the later sheriffs had his son as a drug-dealing deputy. Kinda makes one long for the decades of Good O' Boy shenanigans of Abernethy.
Edit: I know for fact many in Plumas DON'T want this solved
• Its said John Douglas' profile was incorrect because he was fed lies. How? He based his profile off case files, autopsy findings, victimology & most importantly, crime scene photos. Not some made up report filled with lies that some crooked cop sent to him. Why even ask him to help if they were trying to cover things up? They were trying to do all they could think of to solve this crime. PCSO also uploaded Vicap summaries on the victims which is 100% optional, they chose to do this.
• Also worth noting, a websleuths member Kell1, who is retired LE & is an intelligent / experienced individual. He did an analysis of the Keddie Murders in 2015. This was without realizing John Douglas had done one in 1981 and his findings were remarkably close. He was informed some of his information was incorrect, however, he stated it did not change his analysis. He was also "corrected " by Dmac and did not waiver from his opinion, which he formed based on the LE reports, crime scene photos, victimology & his experience/training in LE. These are the people I feel we and LE should be listening to. Here is a link to his analysis (I was going to post it to the forum elsewhere as well): www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sue-sharp-36-3-children-keddie-cabin-murders-plumas-11-april-1981.181214/page-8
• It did not seem like Marty & Bo were trying to run from the law. During their interviews they actually told LE exactly where they were going, even the name of the hotel they would be staying at.
• The lightbulb. Sheila's print on the lightbulb does not mean anything. Research shows fingerprints do not "burn off", in fact they can stay for months +. This does not make it proof Sheila conspired to have her family murdered. And I think it is not right those accusations are being thrown around. Further more, how does Sheila's print on the lightbulb prove MMB's guilt??
• Back to the "police cover up" I personally see no evidence of this. MMB were "nobodies", definitely not worthy of a coverup that that includes decades of PCSO officers, the DOJ and the FBI.
• Below I attached the crime statistics for Plumas county in 1980 and 1981. This is from an article in the Feather River Bulletin on June 23, 1982. Notice there were only 6 homicides in 1981, at the time of this article. Half of those victims included Sue, Johnny & Dana. In 1980 there were only 3 homicides. I believe PCSO were in over their heads. They had never had a crime of this magnitude occur within their county. Doug Thomas did the appropriate thing by calling in for help from the DOJ & FBI early on. We can also see from the PON list and timelines that they were following up on leads. They had leads coming from every direction & witness statements that were contradictory of one another.
Phew that was a lot!
I really would love to hear your guys thoughts on any of the above or anything I may have missed. I can't help but feel that the only way this case will be officially solved is if PCOS accepts help from outside sources . I do feel this case is solvable, but again that they need to accept assistance from those willing to give it.
With all the evidence collected from the cabin & according to the recent abc10 Unsolved California, that evidence is still there just waiting to be re-examined...what's the hold up?
Here are is the article re: Crime Statistics from 1980 & 1981:
As long as this post below is, I know I missed some things. Please, everyone feel free to correct anything I have wrong or you may disagree with. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts and get some conversations going.
I cant help but feel that there is a huge injustice going on with this case. I don't know who committed this crime, I just hope it can be solved one day, via real hard evidence.
So much out there is based on the opinion and deductions of one person. I see things differently than the "prevailing theory" and I wonder how everyone else feels. I wish people could discuss the case and their opinions freely. And I wish people interested in the case would do their own research via the actual reports, not one person's take on things.
I don't really have a set theory & do not know who killed the Sharps & Dana. I don't care if its proven it was MMB. I do know there is no physical evidence tying them to it. And at least a dozen people have been named as involved and called murderers with no proof. I guess I'd rather not accuse people of murder without some hard evidence to back that up. It's such a sad case. I just hope one day the families can have justice & closure. With today's technology & DNA, I don't know why it's not possible.
Anyway, where to begin lol. I'm just going to go off the top of my head and write things down as I think of them Here goes:
• Wearing suits to stand out in the bar & establish their alibi. Not necessary, everyone knew everyone in Keddie + Marty worked upstairs in the restaurant so people knew who he was.
• The music change. It does appear there was a change in music that night & not just some story they made up. "The Eric Roy Show" is listed in the FRB as the entertainment at that bar that weekend. From the timeline:
• 810412-0100c Eric Roy, Bobby Jester & Lisa Hensel quit playing records at the Back Door Bar. <Bobby Jester / Crim>
• They leave the bar & return home for a short period. This is when they supposedly start their attack at 28 but someone screams so they have to leave and return to the bar to reestablish their alibi. In this short window of time Dmac claims they went home to change out of their suits, go to 28, start the attack, return home to put their suits back on (minus their vests) and back to the bar. Yet no one sees any blood on them while at the bar( Guess they had time to shower too?) or reports them behaving strangely.
• And they leave Marilyn at 28 to keep an eye on the scene? I find this impossible to believe. According to him at least Sue is still alive + 3 small boys in the bedroom, Johnny kind of & maybe even Tina, since no one knows for sure when she was taken/killed. He says because of where Sue's chest wound was she had to have been bound after being stabbed/killed. So Sue isn't bound yet and she didnt take this as an opportunity to fight back, make some noise, alert the neighbors somehow?
• According to reports & autopsy findings, Dana died first & based on lividity he was in a sitting position for sometime before being placed face down on the floor/cushion. This is what the autopsy results & investigators determined during examination. Dmac is the one who claims that is not true, based on his findings.
• Johnny was most likely killed next because we know Sue walked through someone's blood. There was blood on the bottom of her feet & bloody footprints at the scene. So she was not bound at this point. Just my opinion, but it appears like perhaps she was in her bedroom, heard some commotion & came into the living room, tried to aide Johnny.
• The boys had no defensive wounds but Sue did. It appears the boys were attacked first, Sue came into the scene and was attacked & bound.
• The love letter. I think it was just that, a love letter. The full letter is never shown. Just those few lines, which do sound incriminating own their own but not when read in its full context. He is talking about his kids, basically how he took care of Marilyn & her kids but gave up his kids for her. He calls them the most precious things and his flesh & blood. It's been said Marty had 5 kids. But in the statement Marilyn's Aunt Joan gave, she says Marty had 6 kids with his ex and she believes most of them are in foster care. The officer taking her statement names his ex wife & says that she has 3 kids with Marty. So who knows what the exact circumstances with his kids were at the time with the ex, foster care, etc.
The letters, in their entirety can be found here: zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/126/martin-smartt-love-letters
And the report of LE's interview with Marilyn's aunt can be found here:
zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/164/phone-call-joan-andrews
• Marilyn- it appears as if Marilyn was looking for a way out of her marriage to Marty. She most likely was already having an affair with Wade. Finding out Marty was having an affair probably would have been a God send to her. A reason to leave him. Not a reason for her to force him to kill a family to prove his love for her. While her son was spending the night no less. I'm sure she was terrified the morning of the murders & wanted out of Keddie asap. It maybe even crossed her mind if Marty & Bo could be responsible. But I think more than anything she took it as chance to get out of her marriage. Little did she know that 30 years later her lies & exaggerations would lead people to accuse her of being the mastermind of the murders.
• Based on newly released reports & statements, Justin also spend that Friday night at cabin 28. Because of this, I feel it is more likely MMB knew Justin would br spending Saturday night at the Sharps. We can't assume his presence at 28 was a complete surprise to MMB. It actually seems more likely they knew he would be spending the night at 28 and therefore not plan an attack on Sue, knowing their son would be in the cabin that night. Where did they think he was, if he wasn't at home prior to leaving for the bar at 10pm that night? They knew he was spending the night next door with his friends.
• Marty's missing hammer. I don't hold much weight on this. Again, dmac is the one who decided 2 different hammers were used. The pathologist never stated that in his findings. It would be nice to know if PCSO had a second opinion on the autopsy results. Did they confer with a Pathologist to see if a second hammer was used? If not, the hammer found in the pond 35 years later is all for nothing, doesnt matter, as it may not have anything to do with the homicides. It is odd he said his hammer was missing during his interview. The investigators let that slip by, not because they were corrupt, but because they knew the actual hammer had been left at the scene. Marty bringing up his missing hammer could show that he didn't know a hammer/murder weapon had been left inside 28 by the killers. I'm sure the officers made note of his comment.
• Also, these weren't formal interrogations of Marty & Bo. LE were speaking to neighbors, people who were at the bar that night, possible witnesses, etc. Finding out if anyone saw or heard anything that could be helpful to the investigation. It's said they were interviewed together, seems more like Marty walked in at the very end of Bo's interview. It was being conducted in the banquet room at the keddie restaurant and Marty was interviewed after Bo. Bo's interview was at 10:27am & Marty's at 11:25am, on April 14, 1981.
• Another odd statement, Bo makes sure to tell LE he is impotent during his interview. Almost as if he assumes Sue was raped, which she wasn't.
• Regarding Marty's "slip up"/"confession" during his interview, where he says "Its possible he may have been alerted to something without me detecting him ". This is also taken out of context. If you read the entire transcript of that interview, it shows Marty says this after being asked if it's possible Justin saw inside the house, through the open front door that morning, after the murders were discovered & police were investigating the scene. Unfortunately for Marty his grammar was not the best. However, in addition to this, the section of recording shown on part 2 of the documentary has purposely been cut to make it appear "more guilty". If you compare the audio from the documentary to the actual transcript you will find this is true. Why not upload the entire interview, in full it's context???
• Not to mention, investigators know during attacks such as what happened in 28, there is a good chance the perpetrator injured themselves. Therefore, one can assume they were looking for injuries to the hands, etc of Bo & Marty during these interviews. PCSO put out a request out to local hospitals to let them know if anyone receives care for such injuries. The photo of the cabinet door removed from the bathroom, it looks as if there is blood dripping down it. Could there be suspect DNA there?
• Back to the hammer, why would Marty throw it in the pond of all places? Its said they carried Tina over the swinging bridge that night, why wouldn't they drop it into the large creek/river below at that time? Or take it with them to Camp Eighteen? A knife was also found in a completely different place around the same time as the hammer, so same questions. Why hide evidence all around Keddie in different places: the hammer, the buck knife, the bloody tissues & swiss army knife, the pink jumpsuit. All found in different places, while also having Tina's body to dispose of? And he did all of this without being seen? While people were out & about, returning home from the bar, etc.
• Marty & Bo had no car. So to get around this problem in the theory other people needed to be included to make it work. That's where some of these other names come into play. They took Tina over the swinging bridge and left her in a gully until the next morning when Marty's friend could pick up Marty & Bo + Tina's body, stop by the Meeks & then drive all the way out to nowhere and leave Tina?
Except it wasnt the next morning. It was actually Monday 4/13/81 that Marty, Bo, & Dee took that trip to Reno. So, that would mean they left her body in some gully for 2 days, not overnight. And it appears MMB had no connection to Camp Eighteen. Whoever did the murders had to have been familiar with that area.
• While at the Meeks house Marty said they were going to Reno, either for car parts or to go to the VA Hospital. Marty had his weekly visits with his therapist on Mondays in Reno at a VA clinic (not a hospital). During Marty's police interview he tells them he was out of town the previous day...Marty's interview took place on Tues. 4/14/81...which means that car ride actually took place on Monday 4/13/81, not Sunday 4/12. Or did they leave Tina in a gulley for 2 days?? And at some point search dogs were brought in but could find no trace of Tina. I don't buy that Tina was taken to throw off the investigation. They weren't criminal masterminds. Plus that adds a lot of risk walking around Keddie, over a bridge, carrying a body, then leaving her somewhere and then returning to that spot, to then drive to a new location with a body.
• The therapist confession. According to the therapist Marty claimed he killed Tina with a hammer. We know this isn't true. The report I've seen (I will try to find it & link it below) the therapist told his neighbor (who was also a Psychiatrist) that a patient confessed to him. The neighbor said he was going to inform the authorities & Marty's therapist said he didnt want him to. I know the whole story about the therapist believing Marty & the sheriff were friends. But it appears that the neighbor is the one who contacted the authorities, not Marty's therapist. A 12 year old girl was missing at this point!! The therapist also said he always had an interest in LE & became a cop later. He claims he assumed Marty was arrested. I find it hard to believe the case never crossed his mind, he never saw any news articles about it, never discussed it with any of his fellow officers, etc. If Marty did confess to the therapist then his confession isnt supported by the evidence. And he is not the only person to have confessed. Below is the transcript of a report regarding the therapist which was shown in part 2 of the documentary. Please note, the therapist interviewed in the documentary is "the friend at ___", not the psychiatrist who contacted LE with information:
Psychiatrist report transcript from part 2 of the DVD
I telephoned Dr. ______ Plumas Lassen mental health psychiatrist at 25----6 who had requested that I call him, he said he had information on the 187 P.C.
Dr. C_____ said that he had a friend at the Reno -------- who is also a next door neighbor and that ---rty had telephoned him from Klamath Falls and ---fessed to the Keddie murders.
Dr. C____ reported that he was going to report the –formation to the office and the psychiatrist did not w----- -im to do this.
The psychiatrist is
5-12-81
I telephoned -----spital and was---
I telephoned Dr. ______ Plumas Lassen mental health psychiatrist at 25----6 who had requested that I call him, he said he had information on the 187 P.C.
Dr. C_____ said that he had a friend at the Reno -------- who is also a next door neighbor and that ---rty had telephoned him from Klamath Falls and ---fessed to the Keddie murders.
Dr. C____ reported that he was going to report the –formation to the office and the psychiatrist did not w----- -im to do this.
The psychiatrist is
5-12-81
I telephoned -----spital and was---
In addition to this document, a reporter named Joshua Seabold wrote an article after seeing the documentary. In his article he states he was shown, by PCSO, a report stating the DOJ did follow up on the therapist's statments but found it was actually hearsay & not a direct confession. (I will look for this article & link it here).
• The newest revelation - the person who rode the boys home that night coming forward after 35+ years. Same thing as above, a 12 year old girl was missing!!! They didnt think it was important to tell the police this in 81??? Who rode the boys home was always one of the biggest mysteries of this case. It was mentioned in every single news article. Coming forward back in 81 would have saved the police a lot of wasted time trying to figure out how the boys got home. It would have helped them know which direction to turn their attention to. But this person did not come forward in 81. Or for for the next 35+ years. She is connected to an unreliable woman who was almost 30 years old and having an affair with 17 year old Dana. That woman also did not tell police her friend rode the boys home. They asked her. She said she was supposed to ride them home but didn't have gas & then she told them she heard a completely different person rode the boys home. Why the lies? She is also the one who started the rumor that Tina was pregnant by Marty. The friend said she didn't tell because she didn't want this woman getting in trouble for her affair with an underage Dana. But LE already knew about the affair & that the boys were at her apartment that evening. So why hide the ride if this friend really did ride them home? Can't say I'm convinced that's how the boys got home that night.
• Also, remember circa 2009 - 2010, PCSO claimed they knew who rode the boys home? Is this the same person?? That info has never been expanded on or discussed with the new ride information, so who knows. Doesn't sound like it though. Sounds like this person was someone uncovered by Gamberg. Someone whose story was confirmed by an unreliable woman, Kathy Beckley, who lied for 35+ years. And this xxx bartender also happened to be the only person who supposedly said Marty & Sue were having an affair, which tied everything together nicely. Almost like it fit their theory so they decided it was true. Again, 35+ years of lies connected to one of these people, yet all of a sudden they are believable? An almost 30 year old woman, having relations with a 17 year old boy, making her way into the halls of the high school to confront the 14/15 year old girl Dana was seeing over a necklace? A woman who spread rumors that Tina was pregnant by Marty, that Marty ate puppies, & in 1981 told PCSO that she heard a completely different person rode the boys home that night??? Sorry if I don't find her current revelations believable.
Here are 2 old comments where the ride was discussed back then. Was this person xxx bartender? Or someone else? According to 28 Gamberg is the one who reached out to xxx bartender & Kathy and was told of the ride home. That was in 2017? & he was reaching out to xxx bartender regarding Marty & Sue's relationship. The ride home just happened to be brought up by bartender x as well. These comments below are from before Gamberg's time as special investigator. It doesn't seem like xxx bartender is the same person as the ride PCSO claimed to know of back in 2009-2010. Who really rode the boys home that night ?
www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sue-sharp-36-3-children-keddie-cabin-murders-plumas-11-april-1981.181214/page-3
Salem
My understanding is that LE does know who gave the boys a ride that night - and it was not Craig Walters. Craig insists it was him on the Cabin 28 board and it is my belief that this is a flat out lie.
I also understand that the samples that LE has, have not been resubmitted because of economics. Plumas County is somewhat economically challenged, for whatever that is worth.
Salem
May 22, 2009
Salem
My understanding is that LE does know who gave the boys a ride that night - and it was not Craig Walters. Craig insists it was him on the Cabin 28 board and it is my belief that this is a flat out lie.
I also understand that the samples that LE has, have not been resubmitted because of economics. Plumas County is somewhat economically challenged, for whatever that is worth.
Salem
May 22, 2009
www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sue-sharp-36-3-children-keddie-cabin-murders-plumas-11-april-1981.181214/page-4
Dmac
Again, the time line indicates the boys were definitely seen hitching a ride from Quincy back to Keddie. PCSO maintain that they know who gave the boys a ride, but the time line only shows that the boys basically are unaccounted for after around 10 pm.
Unfortunately, many people wish to take credit for dropping the boys off at Keddie (which is just over six miles from where they were hitching). LE knows it was not the many people who lied about it and were disproved, including Craig Walters. In fact, the time lines make clear that many of the people coming forward to the police with information were blatant liars. When you see the time lines side by side, you know for any of it to be true, much of it must be bull****.
Although it would be very nice to know who gave the boys that last ride, it still appears whomever gave the ride had no involvement in the crimes. Evidently, the killers were living just a few yards away in cabin 26.
Nov 8, 2010
Dmac
Again, the time line indicates the boys were definitely seen hitching a ride from Quincy back to Keddie. PCSO maintain that they know who gave the boys a ride, but the time line only shows that the boys basically are unaccounted for after around 10 pm.
Unfortunately, many people wish to take credit for dropping the boys off at Keddie (which is just over six miles from where they were hitching). LE knows it was not the many people who lied about it and were disproved, including Craig Walters. In fact, the time lines make clear that many of the people coming forward to the police with information were blatant liars. When you see the time lines side by side, you know for any of it to be true, much of it must be bull****.
Although it would be very nice to know who gave the boys that last ride, it still appears whomever gave the ride had no involvement in the crimes. Evidently, the killers were living just a few yards away in cabin 26.
Nov 8, 2010
• Justin's DNA on the tape. He told LE in 81 that he tried to stop bleeding on Sue so isnt it possible he removed a piece of tape rather than applied it? There is also supposedly another DNA hit but they haven't released who. And mention of minor amount of female DNA on the brown electrical cords on sue.
• They have DNA on Marty, Marilyn, & Dee. We know Marilyn & Dee voluntarily submitted their DNA. They obtained Marty's DNA from the love letters. And they attempted to get familial DNA on Bo through family members. I think we can assume the DNA hit did not belong to any of these people because Dmac & maybe even PCSO would have no problem saying it belonged to them. They've already publically named them as suspects.
• The boys were forced to participate - I don't believe this. You'd think they would have had blood on themselves or their clothes when they were pulled from the window that next morning. But they didn't.
• Tina - However she left the cabin, whether willing or unwillingly, she was fully dressed including her jacket & boots. She is said to have slept in her clothes often. But sleeping in your jeans & tshirt is one thing, I used to do that too, I doubt she slept with her jacket & boots on.
• Boot prints - PCSO must have some evidence not made public. During an interview with Marilyn they question her if Bo had hiking boots. She says not that she is aware of. Marty & Bo wore suits that night. There have been rumors of boot prints found at the scene for years, since Josh made the documentary. In the crime scene photos, specifically the one of the couch cushion with the cover removed, there do appear to be boot prints. And they appear rather small to me.
• I don't know why the 3 younger boys have kept quiet all these years. I personally think either 1. they did hide in their bedroom & aren't really sure who was in the cabin that night. 2. It is someone they are still scared of to this day or 3. They were keeping quiet to protect someone they cared about.
• There was lots of talk & rumors of drugs, "acid parties", the boys being involved in a drug rip off. Enough talk that it can't be discounted as a possibility. You can read the PON list linked below to see what people were saying back then.
• The 911 call re: Tina's remains. It is often said Tina's remains were found on the 3rd anniversary of the murders. Or that the 911 call was received "exactly on the 3 year anniversary of the murders". Neither of these statements are true. The 911 call was received in June 1984. The remains were found in April 1984. Butte County Sheriff's Office via the local paper asked the public to phone in any tips because they were having a hard time identifying the remains & believed they belonged to a younger Male. The 911 call has been released in its entirety. The person asks if the girl missing from Keddie several years ago was considered. Of course the Keddie murders were a huge story at the time, I don't know why BSCO didn't consider Tina but for whatever reason they did not consider the remains would be hers. The person who called 911 did not say anything suggesting they had inside knowledge as it has been portrayed. They were simply calling in a tip, as the public was asked to do. Unfortunately, they will never come forward now since they were immediately named as a suspect & of having inside knowledge of the Keddie Murders.
• The members of PCSO, DOJ, FBI are all corrupt. I dont see this. Maybe someone came help me out here lol? Seems like Doug Thomas did the right thing by calling in for help from the DOJ & FBI asap. Every article I've read where Don Stoy is interviewed, he said things such as this is the one case he hopes to see solved, he thinks it can be solved, and that he thought about the case everyday for years. Doesn't sound corrupt to me.
• Gamberg claims he was warned off the case by Doug Thomas. This is impossible because Gamberg was fired from PCSO prior to the murders and Doug Thomas resigned as sheriff long before Gamberg was reinstated. You can read the dates in the newspaper archives. And since he was not part of the original investigative team he does not know what leads were or were not followed up on before he was on the case in 2013. To me, it appears he want this case to involve outsiders and that his personal grudges against Doug Thomas may be distorting his perception. This is a reddit comment from Dmac that sums it up pretty well:
www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/91kd33/the_keddie_cabin_murders/
Whiskycharlie12b
2y
I think I speak for all of plumas county when I say we all want some closure on this... these kind of things don’t happen there. This was well before I was born, but it’s still horrifying that someone(s) got away with this in such a quiet Mountain community...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
keddie28
2y
One thing that really angers me is a side effect of the increased interest in the case has caused an influx of assholes and gawkers: gorehounds. As Mike Gamberg and I have often said, we want to properly close this case to bring closure, to prove a few outsiders and assholes did the murders, and a very corrupt amalgam of asshole pigs covered it up. The decades of corruption in PCSO were never higher than the years of Thomas, Shanks, DeCrona, hell even one of the later sheriffs had his son as a drug-dealing deputy. Kinda makes one long for the decades of Good O' Boy shenanigans of Abernethy.
Edit: I know for fact many in Plumas DON'T want this solved
• Its said John Douglas' profile was incorrect because he was fed lies. How? He based his profile off case files, autopsy findings, victimology & most importantly, crime scene photos. Not some made up report filled with lies that some crooked cop sent to him. Why even ask him to help if they were trying to cover things up? They were trying to do all they could think of to solve this crime. PCSO also uploaded Vicap summaries on the victims which is 100% optional, they chose to do this.
• Also worth noting, a websleuths member Kell1, who is retired LE & is an intelligent / experienced individual. He did an analysis of the Keddie Murders in 2015. This was without realizing John Douglas had done one in 1981 and his findings were remarkably close. He was informed some of his information was incorrect, however, he stated it did not change his analysis. He was also "corrected " by Dmac and did not waiver from his opinion, which he formed based on the LE reports, crime scene photos, victimology & his experience/training in LE. These are the people I feel we and LE should be listening to. Here is a link to his analysis (I was going to post it to the forum elsewhere as well): www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sue-sharp-36-3-children-keddie-cabin-murders-plumas-11-april-1981.181214/page-8
• It did not seem like Marty & Bo were trying to run from the law. During their interviews they actually told LE exactly where they were going, even the name of the hotel they would be staying at.
• The lightbulb. Sheila's print on the lightbulb does not mean anything. Research shows fingerprints do not "burn off", in fact they can stay for months +. This does not make it proof Sheila conspired to have her family murdered. And I think it is not right those accusations are being thrown around. Further more, how does Sheila's print on the lightbulb prove MMB's guilt??
• Back to the "police cover up" I personally see no evidence of this. MMB were "nobodies", definitely not worthy of a coverup that that includes decades of PCSO officers, the DOJ and the FBI.
• Below I attached the crime statistics for Plumas county in 1980 and 1981. This is from an article in the Feather River Bulletin on June 23, 1982. Notice there were only 6 homicides in 1981, at the time of this article. Half of those victims included Sue, Johnny & Dana. In 1980 there were only 3 homicides. I believe PCSO were in over their heads. They had never had a crime of this magnitude occur within their county. Doug Thomas did the appropriate thing by calling in for help from the DOJ & FBI early on. We can also see from the PON list and timelines that they were following up on leads. They had leads coming from every direction & witness statements that were contradictory of one another.
Phew that was a lot!
I really would love to hear your guys thoughts on any of the above or anything I may have missed. I can't help but feel that the only way this case will be officially solved is if PCOS accepts help from outside sources . I do feel this case is solvable, but again that they need to accept assistance from those willing to give it.
With all the evidence collected from the cabin & according to the recent abc10 Unsolved California, that evidence is still there just waiting to be re-examined...what's the hold up?
Here are is the article re: Crime Statistics from 1980 & 1981: