getem
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by getem on Jul 31, 2021 18:37:51 GMT -6
I sort of agree with Kell's theory. Also I would like to welcome back Dmac and his lackey!
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Post by cassiopeia on Jul 31, 2021 18:55:23 GMT -6
I think I've seen the photo your referring to, I'll have to go find it. I actually find the medical jargon fascinating, if not sometimes a little out of my depth. I'd never thought about removing throat tissue to look for damage! Now that it's a worm in my head, I can't believe it wasn't done. From what I recall, the Sharps were cremated and I believe Dana was as well. So that's a completely lost opportunity, which sucks.
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Post by cassiopeia on Jul 31, 2021 19:09:19 GMT -6
Druthers one last Q if you don't mind. Sounds like you've read through all the autopsy reports pretty thoroughly and although it's not medical, did you see anything about a second bra used as a gag? It's been mentioned in several places but I went looking specifically for it and found nothing. I know sue was wearing a bra so a 2nd one would (to me) mean her killer spent time in her bedroom? Sue seems a little on the modest side, and tidy, so I just don't see someone finding it out in plain view.
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Post by druthers on Jul 31, 2021 19:45:15 GMT -6
There was no bra in the gag. What a mess. The ME was a mess! I've seen worse, but rarely. He couldn't say the sky is blue, he'd prefer to list every color it isn't. This is a major homicide case, and Tweedle Dee was tasked with being Tweedle Dumb.
This doesn't come from just the photos, but from the reports. First layer: BLUE BANDANA. Not red.
Second layer: Several strips of the med tape, with female DNA, indicating Marilyn applied the tape. However, if the DNA results came from Chico's lab, a female tech there contaminated Keddie evidence with her own DNA.
Third layer: Sue's UNDERPANTS, cut from her body and used for sexual degradation and humiliation. Again, questionable female DNA based on the same reasoning. Chico lab ruined unknown evidence from contamination.
Sue was a slut and porked any equally stupid dick within reach. The house was a disaster, Sue was the perfect NON-mommy. Sheila is clearly a murderer JUST for the lies she told about Sue, John, Dana, Tina. Sue brought murder into her house because she lived very stupidly and dangerously. That in no way makes it her fault. Except she may as well have been begging for it.
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Post by druthers on Jul 31, 2021 19:49:27 GMT -6
And much of the ME's jargon is confusing. He couldn't write a proper sentence, much less a clear or concise thought. Much of his terminology use was superfluous.
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Post by cassiopeia on Jul 31, 2021 20:01:41 GMT -6
Thank you! The bra/gag seemed...awkward? Glad I can junk it. So damn, even the evidence that was tested got contaminated. That's unfortunate to say the least
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Post by druthers on Jul 31, 2021 20:23:12 GMT -6
Yes, and, unfortunately, I'm left to conclude anything that ever visited the Chico lab was questionable. Dmac gave access to any such files he found relevant to the autopsies or fingerprinting and DNA. He was quite helpful in that regard. Well, he always has been, except the photos would perhaps prove/disprove the nag, as well as the rest. He said there were 60 photos by the PCSO assigned. None by the ME, which must be a clerical error. That would be a pure violation, but that's already consistent with what I've seen.
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Post by druthers on Jul 31, 2021 20:27:45 GMT -6
Do NOT disregard the gag. They posed her, cut her panties from her body to add to the gag. The tape and panties both are postmortem, in my opinion, due to so many factors in the overly-complicated staging.
There was a clear sexual component focused at Sue. Nothing on Tina, as there's so little on Tina, but a definite sexual aggression towards Sue.
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Post by hope on Jul 31, 2021 20:34:34 GMT -6
Wow, Dr. Uthers, that's a shame Dmac & PCSO(?) brought you out of retirement to review the autopsy findings yet didn't allow you access to the photos. You'd think that would be a necessity in forming your opinion.
I'm not doubting your credentials, but I think I've seen your work? In that synopsis you mentioned? You may be the only ME I'm aware of who does not know the difference between a laceration and an incisive wound.
From that keddie 28 synopsis:
From Sue's autopsy report:
Laceration = blunt force trauma. The skin breaks open from the impact causing an open wound. Bruising is typically present. The wounds to her ears were lacerations, in fact they line up with the her other blunt force trauma injuries (bruising, irregular wound edges - "stellate") and the ME even describes a "skip zone" between the wounds of her scalp & ear.
If the wounds to her ear were caused by a knife the ME would have described them as incisive wounds, or "cuts" which appears to be his preferred terminology for such wounds.
In regards to Dana, let's first address your claim that the ME did not take tissue samples. He did, as noted here:
In addition to microscopic analysis, he also sent the tissues to pathology for evaluation:
In regards to Dana's blunt force trauma, sadly he was alive when at least some of the head wounds were made. He was also still alive when the strangulation occurred.
Hemorrhaging, bruising, abrasions, & swelling can only occur while the victim in still alive. None of the above will be present if inflicted postmortem. It is too bad you don't have those photos to look at because the differences between antemortum and postmortem wounds are quite different in appearance.
Dana:
Perhaps PCSO need to request a 3rd opinion from another ME?
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Post by hope on Jul 31, 2021 20:38:49 GMT -6
So female DNA equals Marilyn's DNA? Did the DNA match to her or was it only determined to be from a female? We know Marilyn gave a DNA sample, so was this sample from the gag matched to her DNA? Female does not equal Marilyn.
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Post by druthers on Jul 31, 2021 20:42:49 GMT -6
I've said exactly what I meant, hopeless, senior nobody.
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Post by hope on Jul 31, 2021 22:20:00 GMT -6
Got it. So there is still zero physical evidence connecting Marilyn to these murders. Just DNA from an unidentified female which in your mind means Marilyn. Because you know, everything has to come back to MMB to match your theory.
Come back to us when that unidentified female DNA, or any DNA, is matched to a suspect. Until then it's nothing but your speculation.
I should change my name to hopeless, because that's what you've done to this case. Made it hopeless. Nothing but speculation, why the F isn't this case being investigated like every other case out there!?!? Plenty of evidence to be tested & advances in DNA technology to be utilized. Instead Keddie gets speculation, opinion, old rumors, theories & twisting of statements to fit a pet theory....hopeless.
Again, come back when you have a real argument. When just one little piece of evidence, out of the hundreds pieces of evidence collected in this case, come back matching MMB. I don't give a F who that evidence matches to, at least there will be indisputable proof of who committed these horrible murders. These families deserve better. And you're disgusting for the way you speak of them...once again based on nothing but your speculation. You can call us liars all you want & its only because we don't agree with your ridiculous theory. We are looking for the truth here, backed up with physical evidence. This is 100% possible as cold cases are solved everyday. Keddie is no different. I can only imagine how hopeless the families feel reading the crap you spew all over the internet.
P.S. Dr Utters, are you going to tell Dmac he needs to update his synopsis? That you got just a few things wrong while giving your professional opinion on the autopsy reports. I see you ignored that post. Pull out your textbooks from medical school if you want to fact check me.
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 2, 2021 13:14:31 GMT -6
I'm gonna help out the good doctor here, cerebral hypoxia can be achieved without damaging the hyoid. I believe Mr. Horan mentioned a wrestling move. A restraint technique that would be taught to cops,martial artists, ect. Also at least since the 90's kids getting "high" playing the "passout game". Sexual fetishist and suicides (remember David Carradine?). Its how suicides can occur through "hanging" without suspension.
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Post by hope on Aug 3, 2021 18:29:07 GMT -6
Yeah, and Paul Holes work is garbage. I gave up on his podcast on Keddie 20 minutes in. He claimed to be working with PCSO in 2010? Who would that be? DeCrona, or Bill Idiott? I don't know what Holes is supposedly famous for, but his assessment of Keddie is an atrocity. Just a few corrections to hope's last post: I've read most of the keddie28 forum, and know what's been said and what hasn't. Dmac didn't attribute to Dareyl what you claim. That came from Sue's first known Plumas bf, Sharp. And there were multiple other reports on the same, which is probably why the newspaper man was never charged. As if that's any excuse to not hang French by his tiny balls. The LSD garbage needs to be executed and removed. The report was posted probably a year ago, and the only connection to JD and acid is that report, which states clearly the source had not heard the story, but made it up out of pure speculation. No LSD theft, The End. Tina was not wearing BOOTS. The SHOES Sheila claimed were missing were the leather GASS brand. She also slept with that cardboard on her, probably for security, given her background. Like a sweater on a dog comforting it during a lightning storm. And what you fail to realize or mention is the blue shoes the neighbors said she was wearing were also missing, never found. So, chalk up the boots and Gass shoes to yet another inaccuracy and a Sheila lie. It seems to me from all the reports posted, Sheila sent Tina home to be murdered. Talk about no evidence, there is nothing to indicate anyone at 28 knew where Johnny was spending that night, or that Dana was with him. That's all myth. Wasn't planned? Seriously?!! Sad, sad, sad. There's many reports on 28's site, must be close to 500 now, and it absolutely mocks most everything said here. PCSO's own words, DOJ's words, show people here digging rabbit holes to disappear up so they don't have to confront reality. Lately, he's been transcribing the 5-hour FBI interview with Loon, and she put's her foot in it constantly. Guilty as sin, I hope she died a painful death. The FBI botched it, but they tell her that Justin was awake the whole time, and she knows it. That the murders were planned, with tools and weapons brought by the killers. They say Marty and Bo did it, and they know they forced the kids to do things. They specifically said "to the bodies." because she was saying she thought Justin enjoyed participating in the murders. They believe Marilyn was also there, and Casey, too. Dmac hasn't finished yet, but he said they "tore her a new one" or something like that, over the Love Letter/Confession letter. They said almost word for word what Dmac did: Marty had 5 kids, not 4, and they are all still alive. That Marty bullshitted about his kids not being around, because he was trying to make it sound like he was talking about his 55555555555555 kids so his confession would be, what's the word? 'Disguised' will do. But the FBI flat out told her Marty confessed many times, including that letter. Again, that part of the interview isn't online yet, but he already spelled it out. They said LE botched the case in 81 and it should have been solved immediately. They talk about the 28 site and forum a lot, too, which I find hilarious, since most of what they confront Marilyn with came directly from there. Wow, you 'think' JD brought someone home with them? Great work, and stellar evidence. I think Bo was building a model of the Queen Elizabeth in a bottle of JD, and got so pissed off at the balsa wood that he talked Marty and Marilyn into killing Sue. Just as much logic and fact as your assumption. And Sue was hangliding when she was murdered. Does anyone here even care about the facts, or am I preaching to the deaf and blind? There's so much I've read that just gets iterated into the ground, and it's totally false. Why don't you guys read up? I've read some of you were banned, but all of you? Really? At least read his case synopsis, as it's pretty good and debunks so much. Again, I have my own ideas, but no photos to prove what I think I see. Sorry, didn't mean to come back so soon, but hope's last post was, well, hopelessly lost. If you don't know something, why not do the smart thing and either ask, or just shut up? Cass, I'm a newbie here and, so far, am entirely unimpressed. The 28 site blows this away. From what I've read, they're all over the place with no real fabric of thought. The only thing going here is, "MMB didn't do it!" Sorry, but they certainly did. Most of what I've read here is shameful, people propping each other up with bizarre compliments over posts containing abstractions and falsehoods. The last thing I expect here is a bastion of free speech. I am quite familiar with the case. Silveria has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I don' know much about him, as he's not even in the picture, but it's been said he doesn't boast about things he didn't do. And he sure didn't do 28. He was in jail on April 11-12, kinda airtight alibi for an asshole. I guess he's a fun diversion for fools who ignore the obvious. I was brought into the case a few years back as a retired ME asked to review the autopsy reports. I wasn't given access to the photos, as he takes no chances on those getting "out there", but I still know the autopsies were rushed and botched. Basic protocols were ignored. The reports themselves are very poorly written, making them difficult to decipher because he's not very clear on so many critical points. Clarity in writing is a no-brainer 'must' for that job, and that guy was a no-brainer. From the photos I have seen, I see several inconsistencies. And I don't mean with the nearly-useless reports, I mean inconsistencies in handling victims, in execution. It's such a sloppy crime scene, with blood smears all around from victims being dragged around- probably much of it comes from the staging. An ME is taught not to spec, but I'm long off that clock. I'd like better access to images, as I see what I believe to be petichiae on Sue's lower extremities. There's so much spatter, I'd need better versions to go where I think this goes. Hope: Why do you believe anything Sheila says or said? She's on the same scale as the killers and 1981 LE when it comes to liars. You believe her version of Tina being sent home by her killer? Diabolical. And no mention of Sheila fucking Dana while Poor Tina had a crush on him? That kinda logic gets people dead fast.
Let's start with the shoe situation. No one has ever said Tina's blue shoes were missing from the cabin. Rick told LE Tina had been wearing blue tennis shoes that afternoon & when she came home. Blue Ked-style shoes are actually seen in some of the crime scene photos.
LE walked Sheila through the cabin several days after the murders in order for her to identify any items that may have been missing. She mentioned only a few items missing, including the "tool box"/"shoe shine box" used as a toolbox, a jacket belonging to Tina and Tina's brown leather GASS shoes/boots. I apologize for referring to them as boots if Sheila had actually said "shoes". But, regardless of which term was used, this style of shoe had a boot type sole. Google "1980 brown leather GASS shoes" and see for yourself. Styles for the late 70's had the same boot-like appearance.
Marty may have had 5 biological kids, however, he and/or his ex-wife did not have custody of all their children. Some were in the foster care system. No one can say how many of these 5 kids were still in their custody when Marty left his children & exwife to move with Marilyn. In a 1981 statement by Marilyn's aunt, she told LE Marty had 4 children & some were in foster care. While Marilyn was an active poster on the forums she also said Marty had 4 children and that some of them (2 if I remember correctly) had lived with them for at some point. Who knows the exact custody arrangements in 81. Its possible 1 child was already in foster care when he met Marilyn. Or after he left to be with Marilyn some of the children were taken into foster care. It's been said this foster care situation was because of issues his exwife was struggling with at the time. Lots of possibilities & lots of different arrangements can me made in these situations (ie physical custody of some of the kids could have been given to a family member, a newborn placed with a family at birth, an older child choosing to be placed with another family member, etc). I've seen these situations & many others first hand because of my work. He also makes many other references to his children & Marilyn's children in the letter. If he was trying to disguise the murders by mentioning his kids (& if he truly had 5 kids), why not say he "paid for Marilyn's love with 5 people's lives"? If Marilyn made him kill people for for her, I think she would understand the reference regardless of the number he used.
Sheila "sending Tina home to be murdered" is nothing but Dmac's speculation. And a disgusting thing to say. I truly cannot believe he has been allowed to call everyone & their momma a murderer. Based on what he feels happened. Ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Does he ever take a second to think what if his speculation is wrong, how the things he says may be hurting people? It's one thing to speculate on certain actions people have done, or said, etc but it is a completely different thing to straight up accuse someone of murder. To say things like she sent Tina home to her death, that she was hoping her younger brothers would be murdered as well, how she woke early that morning like a kid on Christmas, excited to see how her plan worked out. Seriously! Wtf? How do you not see how wrong & disgusting this is? How there no possible way he cannot understand things like that are 10000% speculation?
Did it ever occur to you that Sheila was just a young girl when she lost her family, that she wanted them to be remembered the way she remembers them? As good people, as her family. A family who probably had good times and bad times, just like every other family out there. Perhaps she became uncomfortable with people digging into her family's life, maybe there were things going on that she didn't want out there. And can you blame her? Look at all the atrocious things he has said about her entire family since. And I also think Dmac had a part in her becoming less & less helpful over the years. She saw through him & I'm sure didn't appreciate the way he was trying to take over the case. Become the "authority" as he now claims to be. Think back to when she wrote dozens of letters asking people to help her? Is that something a 14 year old girl who masterminded the murder of her family would do? Bottom line, it is irresponsible & wrong to accuse people of murder without physical proof to back it up.
I'm not sure what single report you are mentioning in regards to LSD. However, there are many more mentions of drugs, LSD, parties, etc in the police files. Way more than one mention. Are you for real? A look through old newspaper articles tells you what was really going on back then in Plumas county in regards to drugs. Most of the people mentioned in these case files have been in the local paper for drugs & alcohol arrests. Citizens being used as narcotic informants.
Maybe you aren't aware of this, but people usually use words like "allegedly", "in my opinion", "I think" or "I believe" when speculating or giving their opinion. Maybe you should pass that on. Someone's opinion should not be written as fact when it is clearly that person's speculation.
Yes, I do "think" its possible J&D ran into somebody that night after coming home that night. Given all the people in Keddie that night, talk of parties & LSD parties at various cabins. I mentioned Howard specifically considering the type of lifestyle he is said to have been living at the time of the murders. He also made sure to get out of town asap following the murders. I also "think" Dmac's girls Beckley & CJ should be looked into & questioned more thoroughly. "I believe" it's obvious there is more to their story, I'm not sure why they get a pass.
I'm not sure why you call Bill Elliot "Bill Idiot". I'm assuming its because of things said years ago, when Dmac called him an idiot for requesting a DNA sample from Justin? Dmac thought Bill had requested Justin's DNA to in order to get Marty's DNA & how stupid that was since Marty was not Justin's biological father. Meanwhile, Bill was doing proper police work & wanted Justin's DNA to rule out/compare Justin's DNA to unidentified DNA found at the scene. Is that why he's an idiot?
And anyone in law enforcement, science & forensics, media & journalism, the true crime community, etc. know calling Paul Holes' work "garbage" is a ridiculous & uneducated thing to say. Perhaps you should look him up. Then maybe you would understand the technology out there today that should be being utilized to solve this case. What rock have you been living under? I'd thing a ME investigating an unsolved homicide would be aware of these things. |
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getem
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by getem on Aug 3, 2021 20:07:50 GMT -6
Boom. Where's the lies? Imagine in your (I assume alcohol riddled, because I can't imagine anyone thinking like this sober) mind you have come up with your masterpiece only to see holes blown into it left and right. Gotta be hard taking that L.
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