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Post by hope on Jul 13, 2021 11:52:01 GMT -6
There is wayyy too much talk of drugs, drug parties & even rip offs for it to be written off as nothing but rumors. I went through the "Persons of Note" report & timelines and collected every mention of drugs, LSD & parties. However, there are soooooo many that it'd be ridiculous to post them all here.
If anyone wants to see for themselves, here are the links to the PON list and timelines:
zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/109/statements-police-persons
www.tapatalk.com/groups/keddiecoldcase/case-timelines-f18/
If you search those pages for "LSD", "drugs", & other similar terms you will see just how many statements come up. A drug motive is what the locals were saying back when the murders happened. And that is probably why everyone interviewed in regards to this case seem like they are hiding something.
We know LE claimed no drugs were found in the victims systems & their toxicology results were negative. However, not one of the victims toxicology reports have ever been published. I find that suspicious. Until I see proof, in form of the actual toxicology reports, I don't believe it. Their autopsy reports were published by Josh years ago & toxicology results are part of the official autopsy reports. I personally feel either PCSO held those reports back or, more likely, Josh did have the reports but chose not to make them public. We all know how defensive Sheila & the Meeks became when drugs were mentioned.
Understandable, to a point. But all that actually accomplished is hiding possible motives for the murders. It has led us to where we are today. No one would think any less of Johnny & Dana if something came up in their tox results. Claiming their toxicology results were negative just made it so people can dismiss any drug motive as BS and claim "the toxicology results prove they didn't do drugs ". Yet no one has ever provided the actual reports to back up these claims.
I just don't understand, if those reports were truly negative, why not post the report? Tons of other reports were being published at that time. The autopsy reports were published, yet they chose not to publish the toxicology section of the autopsies. They were referenced enough back in the day, as if Josh, sheila, etc had seen the actual reports. Again, if negative why not post the report? I personally feel the results came up positive for something. And I wonder if LSD was one of the positive items.
It was obvious PCSO were investigating the drug angle (and not because they were corrupt lol) based on leads they were checking & statments they made.
Here is a quote from a 2006 article in the Portola Reporter:
Tons more to add to this, just wanted to get it started for now.
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Post by kmik on Jul 13, 2021 21:06:22 GMT -6
I'm really starting to believe the murders were over drugs. Not sure how but things have come to light in the last year that really make me question what the boys were really doing at Kathy Beckleys house - off and on - FOR HOURS. That's not saying Kathy killed them or had anything to do with the murders but it certainly makes me question everything I've thought so far.
Something to think about is that Sue or Tina could have been killed up until 11:00-11:30 that night but it seems that the trouble did not start until the boys got home.
As you said Hope, too much talk about drugs and rip offs for it to be rumors, Dana was to be moved to a more secure location, DEA card, Johnny and Dana's friendship, Johnny and Dana hanging around Mike Gamberg for Judo, etc...
Something either happened at a party on Friday night or something happened Saturday night and trouble followed them home - maybe not to kill but to confront?
Also the comment from the Youtube video by the guy claiming to have been at the Meadow Valley party who said that they (the people at the party) had talked to the FBI in 1981. We both looked the guy up in the FRB and he is legit and I believe that his story is true - plus the comment was posted under his real name. The party could have been on Friday night for all we know and by Saturday night they were hanging around the Exxon (maybe behind the Exxon?) and going back and forth to Kathy's house for what reason??? Why were all these kids stopping by the Exxon to "talk" to them but nobody giving them the ride they claimed the boys were asking for?
Doug Thomas appealed to the young people to come forward and they would not be in trouble - and I'm beginning to think he was on the right track but there were so many rumors they were chasing down.
I think there are many things that have been withheld from the public - the toxicology report being one.
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 14, 2021 13:00:43 GMT -6
Now I don't agree with all the timings, I knew ALOT of people who got busted for pot and had mandatory tests back in the day. Some of the more active skinny guys could flush their systems of THC in a matter of days, while some bigger guys could take months as thc is stored in fat cells. But these are what typical toxicology screens test for, and the time it takes (typically) to leave the system.If the test is used as a drug screen, it must be done within a certain amount of time after the drug was taken, or while forms of the drug can still be detected in the body. Examples are below:
Alcohol: 3 to 10 hours Amphetamines: 24 to 48 hours Barbiturates: up to 6 weeks Benzodiazepines: up to 6 weeks with high level use Cocaine: 2 to 4 days; up to 10 to 22 days with heavy use Codeine: 1 to 2 days Heroin: 1 to 2 days Hydromorphone: 1 to 2 days Methadone: 2 to 3 days Morphine: 1 to 2 days Phencyclidine (PCP): 1 to 8 days Propoxyphene: 6 to 48 hours Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC): 6 to 11 weeks with heavy use
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Post by hope on Jul 18, 2021 17:59:18 GMT -6
Here are a couple of entries from the Known Statements from Persons of Note" specifically mentioning Johnny & Dana.
I would like to know what the full statements of Uncle Don & Nancy say. Here are the snippets we've seen:
Obviously, they were family and would have some insight into what was going on within in the Sharp household. To describe Johnny as "out of control", that says a lot. Many of us growing liked to stay out late, drink, smoke weed & go to parties, however, I can't seeing any of our parents describing us as "out of control". Those things are expected from teenagers, to a certain extent. I feel like there was more going on with Johnny & Dana.
We have Johnny stealing drugs on at least two occasions. Is it that difficult to believe it may have happened again? Those rumors were going around of a drug rip off happening shortly before the murders. And there are the two document thefts previously.
How would Johnny even know two adults, one being a school bus driver, would even have weed to steal? According to this statment summary by 28, it sounds like Johnny & his friend broke into the house while the owners were out:
Also, these summaries are less than helpful by they way. What else did this interview say? How did they know Johnny? What was there impression of him? Any knowledge of his drug use or other activities?
There's this supposed statement from Dana:
Some more acquaintances admitting Johnny & Dana at least smoked weed:
And people mentioning Johnny & Dana were in Quincy that evening looking for weed & alcohol. They were hanging out at the Exxon off & on all night for some reason. They could have easily went to the Mt Hough party where I'm sure they could have drank some beers & hung out with their friends. Just seems like they had something more important they were up to.
There was this rumor:
And when questioned, George's response is interesting:
(More to add coming soon)
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Post by hope on Jul 18, 2021 18:09:34 GMT -6
Countless talk of parties & drug parties. It seems enough people from the Mt. Hough party were interviewed & stated Johnny & Dana were not there. But what about the other parties? Even with xxx bartender coming forward, there are still questions of what exactly J&D were up to between the hours of 7pm-11pm.
Here are the entries specifically mentioning LSD parties:
The rumors of Johnny & Dana stealing acid. Side note, I would really like to read what Allen C & Carla had to say in his statements.
Now Carla is the sister of Vern who lived in the group home with Dana. I'd like to know what else she had heard. It has always felt as if the kids closet to Dana knew something and were scared. Vern & Sterling, both said to have been acting strange and nervous after the murders. Donna William's. I don't care what anyone says, Donna's statements are worth looking into. Something upset that girl deeply. She showed signs of guilt, paranoia & remorse. She made statements of "them getting Dana & Johnny". Her being next or being arrested by the FBI. Something about Steve. Steve D's changing stories of rides back & forth to the Exxon, or riding around with J&D for 1.5 hrs. Joey C's statements. It just feels like these kids knew more than they were saying. And they knew things/people that made them scared to come forward. They are written off as crazy, liars or attention seekers. But fear will make someone change their story or withhold information.
In addition, we also have Beckley & CJ, who for whatever reason decided to withhold the information that they rode J&D home that night. Why? Their explanations for this do not ring true in the least bit. Why only with hold the specific detail of the ride? So, they withheld information, lied, and spread rumors pointing LE in multiple directions away from them. Now this is just my speculation here, but I can only see a couple of reasons why they would do this. 1. They know more than they are saying & were scared. Either because of people involved or activities they were really up to or 2. They know more than they are saying & are trying to protect themselves or people close to them.
Then we also have the Spang's story and the party at the Compton's, both of which also involve drugs.
And supposedly something in Spang's statement lead to xxbartender/CJ and then Beckley. How did they know each other? Hmm. I'd bet its more than just Spang knowing CJ was a bartender at the Pioneer Bar.
In the never seen Spang reports, the ones leading to xxxbartender, he supposedly says something about J&D, the exchange of money, waiting for them by the Keddie pond and being ripped off. His previous statements mentioned LSD deals and we know he was in Keddie, that night. At the Keddie pond, just as he said. His van was spotted by Tim D. I guess I will just leave the Spang stuff there because its difficult to make sense of only having bits & pieces. I will say, I do not think he story should just be blown off. He was in Keddie for some reason that night. And part of me wonders how he was there at the right time. He was at the pond right around the same time the boys arrived home. Coincidence? Or did he maybe actually meet up with them at some point during the night and arrangements were made for a meet up later on. Or did he meet up with them at Beckley's & follow them to Keddie? He also appeared as if he knew things, tried to come forward but became scared and stopped cooperating.
Also, the phrasing of certain statements make it sound as if they were searching for a specific drug dealer. Perhaps because of the rip off rumors?
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Post by hope on Jul 18, 2021 19:34:49 GMT -6
Here are some old posts made by people who knew Dana. They were made while the Meeks were active on the forums. The Meeks tried hard to discredit any talk of the boys being involved with partying or drugs and a few people called them out. I believe I have some other similar posts saved but will need to find/post them. It was nice hearing real memories of the victims.
It's also worth noting, that something drug-related was the most common motive discussed by locals, prior to documentary & forums. I have some old posts saved regarding this as well. Just have to find them. And I agree with Dana's aunt, I know all of us here feel the same, we do not care if the victims were involved in such things. We just want justice for them and nothing they may have done deserves what happened to them : (
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Post by hope on Jul 18, 2021 20:13:59 GMT -6
Locals still leave comments on YouTube videos & blogs regarding drug motives & rumors.
The above comment is very interesting to me. His story is full of specific details & memories from the night he is discussing. I removed his name for privacy reason, but assure you he was in the area at the time and was J&D's age.
His comment reminds me of this PON entry:
Party, Meadow Valley, trailer. LE sent his prints in for comparison. It appears as if LE did hear about the party described in the youtube comment, back in 81.
Here is another comment from a local:
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Post by hope on Jul 18, 2021 20:25:04 GMT -6
Finally, (phew that was a lot!), we have the issue of the DEA card, rumors surrounding the Dorris home & speculation of narcotic informants. But I think I'm going to have to save those things for tomorrow because I need to get to bed! Goodnight all : )
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Post by kmik on Jul 18, 2021 21:44:34 GMT -6
Thanks for posting that! Too much talk of party and drugs from people who knew the boys - there has to be some truth in all those “rumors “. I think they were trying to point LE in the right direction without having to get themselves directly involved in it.
They knew what happened to J&D and didn’t want the same for themselves so they told LE what they had “heard” instead of what they “knew”. It just made their lives easier or so they thought
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Post by karis on Jul 19, 2021 20:06:46 GMT -6
Great job Hope! Nice to have all that in one place to look at. Keep digging!
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 20, 2021 23:01:31 GMT -6
Wow great job! I've seen the remark from Rene Wingate before and was kind of shocked she gave info on a party in Keddie, the night her brother was killed. The Wingate's seemed pretty oblivious on the video. That moves into the top five spot of interviews I'd like to see! You really have a knack for laying things out concisely. Who knows what you guys could do with a few more verifiable pieces
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Post by hope on Jul 24, 2021 18:54:35 GMT -6
Here's some stuff for us to dig into....Plumas County, drugs & narcotic informants.
I know Kmik & Karis have said this many times before, but newspapers.com is one of the most helpful tools in researching what was going on in Plumas County during that time period. If anyone reading this has a subscription I recommend searching the Feather River Bulletin for names associated with this case. You will be amazed what comes up.
You know who doesn't ever come up? Marty Smartt. For being portrayed as this big time drug dealer, sociopathic murderer (he wasn't) not one mention of him comes up. Not even a drug arrest, can't say the same for most of the other people close to this case.
No matter what is claimed, the Marty & Bo did it theory was started by the Meeks. Dmac may have added his speculation & opinion to their claims, but here we are 15-20 years later it's still the same old same old, Marty & Bo did it with no physical evidence to back it up. If you read Nina Meeks old posts, her theory is literally Dmacs theory. Rereading her posts I was shocked how similar they were to the current prevailing theory (Marty & Bo did, hid Tina, lied & said they were going to Reno while really going to Feather Falls to dispose of Tina, forced participation, throwing poor Dee into the mix, etc). I will try to post those & other old posts here for new people to read.
A lot of damage was done early on in this case, as far as the early forums. The public believed things being said by people they believed to be close to the Sharps. People didn't have access to Newspapers.com like they do today to fact check what was being said. Rumors & speculation got passed off as fact. Certain angles were shot down & the public told "no way could that have happened". We know a lot more now, but unfortunately things from those old message boards are still brought up, speculation used as fact. So much damage has been done to this case & continues to be done.
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Post by hope on Jul 24, 2021 18:55:46 GMT -6
Back to the subject.... Plumas County Sheriff's Department & the DA have a long history of using narcotic informants. Sometime in the 1980's Plumas & neighboring counties became involved with an official program that paid people to be narcotic informants. PCSO were reimbursed by a grant from the "Western States Information Network". These informants were paid quite well. Here is an in depth article from 1988 discussing the program: www.newspapers.com/image/164681021/?terms=Narcotic%20informant&match=1www.newspapers.com/image/164684347/The article does not say when Plumas County first utilized this official program. However, a seperate article provided arrest statistics regarding the efficiency of the program. The first year of statistics is 1978, however it doesn't specify if the program was in effect that year. The next year is 1983. It is written as the first year an "aggressive attempt" was made. This was also the year Plumas County began the DARE program within their schools. PCSO were using informants long before their affiliation with the "Western States Information Network" began. There are countless articles from the 70's & 80's discussing drug busts made possible because of narcotic informants. Local residents arrested for drugs, burglaries, petty crimes were offered to have their charges dropped in exchange for becoming informants. The informants identities were revealed during court proceedings & then printed in the local papers! It all sounds rather reckless. Howard & his group of friends, every single one of them had been arrested in drug stings involving narcotic informants. Marijuana, LSD, methamphetamine. As well as many, many other arrests & run ins with the law. According to newspaper reports the informants (at least in some cases) would wear wires. We have the ME checking Dana's groin area for tape residue, Dana's pants being unzipped when found, mentions of it appearing as if the boys were being interrogated or intimidated. On the old Keddie forums locals did make comments about narcs, how you never knew who was a narc, and that it was a big fear back then. I can see why after reading those old news articles. All it would take is for someone to suspect J&D were informants. Especially if they had already been busted because of an informant. We've all heard the story that Dana was about to be moved from the Dorris' into a "more secure" foster home. According to Dmac, in the live stream, he did for Real Chill Graz's YouTube channel, Dana was about to be moved to another home in a different county. I believe he said this was supposed to happen the following month. Why was there a need to move Dana to a more secure home? Dmac goes on to say that the Dorris' foster home was full of drugs. Drugs always going in and out. I am not sure where thus information came from or if there is any truth to. Yet, he still claims Johnny & Dana were not into drugs. All the evidence says otherwise. Too much to ignore
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Post by kmik on Jul 24, 2021 19:20:06 GMT -6
Just knowing who gave the boys a ride and that the boys “waited” hours for Kathy to give or provide them with a ride says a lot.
What were they really doing at the Exxon and Chevron? I have absolutely no trouble believing they were involved in drugs nor the possibility that one or both were narcs.
I always thought if the drug angle was the reason they were killed they would have been killed before they got home - but if somebody only went there with the intention of confronting not killing them I can see the reason they were killed in 28.
The LE that I have seen linked to the Dorris home would be Decorona, Forcino, and Mike Gamberg giving Dana Judo lessons.
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 24, 2021 23:54:38 GMT -6
Hope is once again nailing it DOWN! A speculative thought, the wire location isn't something most dealers would think about. Iff that's how it went down someone there was either familiar through the practice because 1) they learned before the hard way 2) they're a narc themselves 3) they're professionally familiar with the practice 4) they're associated with 1,2,or 3 Kmik,exactly! There's a gap in the rides timeline that's been baffling for years. Were the boys in Keddie or not those missing hours? Fear not, it's all been cleared up by a lady 40yrs later who claims to have driven them between 10pm-1am
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