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Post by kmik on Oct 11, 2020 21:15:53 GMT -6
Hope I started listening to the podcast but stopped early on when one of the guys said he could reconstruct the crime scene for instance if he knew whose blood was under the cushion where Dana's head was resting so I immediately stopped and printed the Stoy Report - going down and listing what blood type was found where: everybody better grab a rope cause I'm diving in the rabbit hole head first! Haha - but seriously I need help
Sue and Johnny: type O Blood Dana: type B Blood
Type O Blood found on: #8 Rug near Johnny #31 Red shorts on floor in front of couch
Type B Blood found on: #13 Rug near Dana #25 Hammer on table in living room #53 Cover off couch cushion on living room floor #57 Blood splatter on north wall in living room
Reactor for Type O Blood found: #4 Knife on living room floor next to Johnny #6, 7, 9, 10, 11 Rug near Johnny #15,16 Rug near Sue #70 Edge of door in girls room #71 South wall in girls bedroom near end of door #77 (not sure) Either Sue's glasses or on cut wire end on floor between beds in girls room #97 Bloody twisted tissue found in garbage bin at Keddie Store
Reactor for Type B Blood found: #12 Rug near Dana #17 Rug near Sue (Sue was actually on top of this blood) #93 Tissue paper from garbage bin at Keddie Store
Inconclusive or No Type A, B, or O #3 Inside front door knob #26 Butcher knife on table in living room next to hammer #28 Cassette tape on table in living room #94 Tissue paper form garbage bin at Keddie Store
Missing from those identified are: #100 Cabinet door from bathroom #82 Edge of door in boys room #74 Stain on small bed sheet in girls room #73 Drops on cardboard on large bed in girls room #72 Drop on floor in girls room between foot of small bed and wall #67 Inside door knob on back door in Kitchen
We also do not know whose blood was on the bottom of Sue's feet (important) plus we have the secondary female DNA hit that was found not only on some of the brown electrical cords used to bind Sue, but a blood sample taken from the scene. Could this possibly be from the cords being touched by the girls or Sue prior to the murders since they were from their bedroom? Or would any prior contact with the cords have been wiped away when someone used them to tie up Sue? I'm so confused - secondary - minor (although I do understand that means a small amount) - blood sample taken from scene - was this Tina's??
(If I have any of these blood types on the wrong evidence please let me know and I'll correct it)
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Post by kmik on Oct 12, 2020 7:21:01 GMT -6
This is where I'll need help and a lot of it.
While Sue was laying on couch the younger boys described her as wearing a robe
Sue's robe was said (by Dmac) to be hanging on the door in (her) girls bedroom
Sue's glasses were on her nightstand
Cigarette butt (Benson & Hedges, Sue's brand) in ashtray on tv stand between beds in girls bedroom
Sue was found on the floor in front of the couch, in a muu muu type lounging dress
Sue was laying on top of what appears to be Dana's blood
Sue had blood on the bottom of her feet
Sue had several defensive wounds
Sue was hit in face with what appears to be the butt of the air rifle
Sue was gagged with undergarment, bandana, tape
A couch cushion was pulled from the couch and Dana's brand of cigarette's were laying where cushion had been
Cords are cut from the girls bedroom - pieces of cord still laying about girls room
Unidentified (to us) blood drop in girls room between foot of small bed and wall (was someone bleeding while standing at foot of bed and reaching over to unplug something from the wall)
Blood smears on door knobs of front and back door and bedroom doors
Smear of blood on small bed where blanket was taken to cover Sue (as if someone brushed the sheet with bloody hands while scooping up the blanket)
To be continued...
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Post by hope on Oct 12, 2020 9:27:42 GMT -6
Wow Kmik! Good work! Thank you for putting all this together. I cannot remember if I've seen that report of Stoy's before. Very interesting.
So according to these results only Dana's blood was found on the hammer? And only type B was found on the couch cushion cover! And we now know he was near the north wall during the attack because that blood splatter belongs to him. Going to have to back and look at some of the photos to compare with what is on this report.
Regarding the bloody tissue found in the garbage bin at the store, there were actually 3 tissues found? The results for the twisted tissue #97 (used for a bloody nose most likely?) had type O. Tissue #93 has reactor to type B. And tissue #94 was inconclusive for A, B, or O. As you guys pointed out before, it definitely sounds as if Johnny & Dana got into a fight with someone while outside of the home at some point.
It would be nice to know whose blood was on that cabinet door. It appears as if it dripped down while someone was leaning over the sink. I wonder how much evidence has been sent off for DNA testing. Really, great work Kmik! Keep it up!
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Post by kmik on Oct 12, 2020 13:12:03 GMT -6
Yes if the stain on the cabinet door is from dripping blood (and that's what it looks like) there was a lot of it and I'm surprised it didn't make the list. As for Johnny or Dana getting into a fight outside the cabin - could be. My question is where did they get tissue paper (if not from the bathroom of 28) and why go all the way back to the Keddie Store to put it in the garbage - along with what appears to be more items from the murder scene?
The cushion has Dana's blood on it but if you look at the crime scene photos with evidence markers there is #14 which appears to be cut from the top of the cushion - but we don't have it on the list as A, B, O, or inconclusive. Wow so many questions! Thanks Hope for pointing us to this new podcast it has really given me a desire to match all this up - and i'm not even 20 minutes into it.
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getem
Junior Member
Posts: 57
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Post by getem on Oct 12, 2020 16:20:41 GMT -6
I always thought that the tissues in the garbage were from the killers cleaning up after leaving and hoped the nose one was from Sue getting a lick in. There was a lot of violence for the killer/s to not have blood on them or even a scratch.
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Post by kmik on Oct 12, 2020 17:12:58 GMT -6
Yep and just because it's B or O doesn't mean it's from the victims - IF the evidence from the bin is related to the murders. I fully agree there has to be somebody's blood besides the victims on something - or at least DNA. I wanna know what's on the bathroom cabinet door.
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Post by hope on Oct 12, 2020 18:32:08 GMT -6
Oh yes, the other items found in the garbage bin...got carried away before, lol, sorry about that! Thank you for reminding me. I need to go back and refresh myself with the police reports again. I also wondered where the actual tissues came from as I was typing my previous comment. And in the past thought it belonged to the one of the suspects. It does not make sense for the killer to take a twisted bloody tissue used by Johnny or Dana, I think you guys are right, one of the killers had a bloody nose and disposed of it as they went by the store. We know Chucke & Henry admitted to being there as well as Mr. Seabolt. They definitely need to send those tissues off for DNA testing, as well as the cabinet door
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Post by hope on Jun 20, 2021 11:16:43 GMT -6
I wonder if PCSO ever ran DNA testing on #16? In the crime scene photographs, evidence card #16 corresponds with the bare footprint. The footprint was actually located underneath Sue. #16 is on PCSO's blood typing report, it was reactive for O type blood. So not Dana's blood. Could be Sue stepped in Johnny's blood like we've always assumed. The only thing is, I'm not fully convinced that footprint belongs to Sue. We know she stepped in blood. But that bare footprint, #16, is quite large. Especially for a petite woman. Using the index card next to the footprint as a size guide, that footprint measures about 12 or 13 inches. Plus the print it is "flat footed" and Sue appears to have high arches with no blood on the arch of the foot visible in photos. But if not Sue's footprint who else could have left it? Justin maybe? If he did move Sue. The way it was located directly under her head. But would a 12 year old boy have feet that size? And if left by him then I would think he would have washed up afterwards? We don't know if PCSO checked his feet, but Doug Thomas said he had no blood on him that morning. Or is that where Marilyn's story of Justin's shoes being taken because he walked through the crime scene? Did he actually walk through the scene barefoot? Basically, I'm wondering could the bloody footprint actually be Sue's blood? It's from Johnny, Sue, or Tina but without it being DNA tested there's no way of knowing who for sure. If that bloodstain comes back as Sue's blood then she most likely did not leave that print. I'm leaning towards Justin, but then I think of this entry. Were they requesting barefoot prints? Did they compare that footprint to Sue, Justin, Rick, etc?
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Post by kmik on Jun 20, 2021 11:22:32 GMT -6
Good thought Hope!!
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Post by kmik on Jun 20, 2021 20:12:44 GMT -6
Here is the full report. This report says "fingerprints" so not sure if it was finger or foot prints. This is why I'm so glad we all like to work together on this forum. If not for Hope bringing this statement back to light I'd never have looked at this report again. Regardless of fingerprint or footprint it's obvious that LE definitely had a print they were working with. Also notice that they were looking to see if this mans ears had ever been pierced. Thanks Hope for revisiting this again! There is a reason LE was looking at ears and feet/fingers - no matter if it was based off of what someone knew, saw or thought they saw - they were certainly checking out all things.
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Post by hope on Jul 14, 2021 9:01:22 GMT -6
Back to that footprint again. From Sue's autopsy report:
We could see there wasn't any blood on the arch of Sue's foot seen in the photo. However the bloody footprint in question was made by the opposite foot. The ME noted blood was not present on the arches of both Sue's feet.
And as kmik pointed out, the ME did obtain swabs from the bottom of both of Sue's feet. So whose blood did she step in ??
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 14, 2021 13:36:02 GMT -6
Absolutely kmik, the blood on the cabinet is definitely coming from an active bleeder. Its not a smear, its not flecks, its pooling down. I see 2 possibilities 1) as has been discussed, one of the boys came home bleeding after a fight (maybe with two Indians from Greeneville?) And they went to the cabinet for bandages. Or maybe 2) maybe one of the killers (who almost certainly did not skate out unscathed) bled down the door maybe retrieving some medical tape.. ..? Personally I believe for the blood to be running down like that the cabinet would have to be in very close proximity with a fresh cut dripping down it. Meaning the cut was elevated from it. And the only scenario I can visualize is a freshly cut hand reaching up to open the cabinet. But the problem there is the police state only one outside person's dna was found. And I really believe it was tested. If I were given 1 chance to test any one piece of evidence, I'd go straight for the cabinet.
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Post by hope on Jul 17, 2021 13:03:58 GMT -6
I wish we knew if that cabinet has been tested at all. It sure seems like it could be from one of the perpetrators, and was active bleeding as you mentioned. It is just me, or does it seem like all the important files & information are left out of the files being handed over? Almost as if they're ok with giving out old statments, etc. to speculate on but when it comes to evidence testing & DNA, any recent posts pertaining to that never have a straight answer or explanation. More like second hand information with only parts of th story known, not cut & dry explanations from seeing/having an actual report. And if that's the case , it's very telling. Also, PCSO certainly appeared to believe one of the perpetrators injured themselves and perhaps that is because of the cabinet door. They sent the request out to local hospitals and this is from an article in the FRB on 4/15/81: Here is the full article:
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Post by kmik on Jul 17, 2021 18:51:17 GMT -6
I’ve really struggled over why an investigator would hand over files when, even if no longer working as special investigator, he still could have worked the case on his own.
But I’m beginning to think one of two things: 1. Mike did no work until he found out ID was doing a show so he had to latch onto a theory for the show so it would appear that he’d at least been working some angle all these years 2. He’s handed anything to Dmac that would keep him preoccupied with the Marty theory so he could go in the opposite direction.
Just the fact that he didn’t call in the FBI until 2016 makes me think it was all for “show”. I seriously doubt Mike ever needed Dmacs help when all the info was at his disposal. Too bad he wasted so much time trying to appease him.
Now Dmac has locked those files away never to be seen by others - and although I’d like to see the files they probably have no real relevance to the murders anyway.
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Post by hope on Jul 17, 2021 20:10:24 GMT -6
Same girl, same. This case really is "as screwed up as a soup sandwich"...every aspect of it! 🤣
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