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Post by karis on Jun 22, 2020 11:49:03 GMT -6
Myself and kmik are getting togather all the information we can find on Karl Spang. Since that seemed to be the direction Mike was going in when he ran across the bartender story. I wonder if Mike knew this or maybe just forgot?
October 25, 2017: …..he emailed me today about some more Karl Spang reports he'd recently read. Stuff we've never seen before. Bullshit about Johnny and Dana scoring weed from him, then burning him on a deal, which was described as his reason to go out to Keddie...….
Now dmac has once again decided that Karl was lying and had nothing to do with the murders. The only thing he found believable about Karl's story was a bartenders story about Marty and Sue.
I admit I have looked at Karl's story many times and never noticed this.
Here is a two-page report about Karl's experience. The date of the report 5-5-81:
I recontacted Karl S. by phone to confirm that he will take Deputy Wright to Meadow Valley and to arrange a hypnosis session with Sheriff Thomas. Prior to talking to him, however, I talked with his mother. She told me that she was waiting up for Karl on the morning of 4-12-81 and he arrived home around 0100 or 0130 hr. Also there was nothing she noticed unusual about him. She said he told her he was coming home from Quincy when he noticed a black or dark-colored LTD or similar car that had San Rafael on the license bracket along the side of the road (Hwy 70) between Keddie and the Greenville "Y." The vehicle had a flat tire so Karl stopped to help them. He said two people were inside and they well-dressed and so he changed the tire for them because he was dressed in his "grubbies." She said he thought it was unusual that those people were dressed the way they were happened to be at that location with a flat tire (Karl told his mother this that Sunday morning when he got home). His mother said that was about all she could remember about anything he had to say. I asked her if he mentioned a party in Meadow Valley and she said he didn't.
I recently looked back at Karl's mother Beatrice Sanders. I found an article in the FRB. The date on the article was 1979. She and her father-in-law received new canes as she was blind. She had gone blind in 1971 as a result of her multiple sclorosis. Here are a few outtakes from the article.
"when you go blind you go down in a deep well". But with the help of family and friend.....
"Mrs. Sanders explained she has developed her sensory skills to compensate for her lack of sight. I can hear the softest sound even footprints on carpet....
Did she really know what time he arrived home or did he tell her what time it was? How in the world could she tell the police she noticed nothing unusual about him? There is no way she could have described his clothes according to the article.
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Post by snoho17 on May 7, 2021 20:15:44 GMT -6
"October 25, 2017: …..he emailed me today about some more Karl Spang reports he'd recently read. Stuff we've never seen before. Bullshit about Johnny and Dana scoring weed from him, then burning him on a deal, which was described as his reason to go out to Keddie...…" ok, ive questioned over and over just what the hell KS was doing at keddie that night. Besides driving up there to smoke pot by the pond( ?) And here he (allegedly?) Stating he was there because the boys ripped him off! No matter how many times I go over stuff, there's always something I missed! And this seems pretty big, any other info? Who sent the email, gam?
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Post by hope on May 7, 2021 20:33:06 GMT -6
I know snoho! I would love to know exactly what karl said. That did come from Gamberg, in an email to Dmac. I believe I have that saved and will post it here next. From memory, it sounded like Gamberg came across some Spang files not made available to the public previously. In it, spang says he gave J&D money for some drugs and was ripped off. Personally, I think that may be the missing puzzle piece to the Spang story...why Spang was creeping around Keddie, following cars, and hanging out by the pond. Maybe he did give J&D some money for drugs, followed them to Keddie & waited by the pond for them to return with whatever he paid for. Except they never returned.
We don't know if Gamberg followed up on what Spang said. It sounds more like he saw something in there that led him to believe Marty & Sue were having an affair and he followed up on that angle - with the xx bartender who then said Marty & Sue were having an affair and that she was the one who rode the boys home that night. But did he also follow up with Spang? It did always sound like spang was up to something but then got scared and refused to cooperate anymore...right??
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Post by hope on May 7, 2021 20:48:07 GMT -6
So here is what Dmac posted on his forum in October 2017. It starts with an email to Dmac from Gamberg and then Dmacs reply. I cant help but feel that xx bartender's story is believed because it fit in with what Gam & dmac were trying to prove. Did Gam ever follow up with Spang about this? It doesnt sound like it, sounds like he reached out to xx bartender instead. What are your thoughts snoho?
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Post by kmik on May 7, 2021 21:43:59 GMT -6
Karl's story reminds me of Marty's brother saying Marty thought the murders had to do with a drug rip off - and who claimed (in one of his many stories) to have been ripped off - Karl Spang.
Who was supposedly parked by the pond smoking a joint watching cars go in and out? Karl Spang
Who supposedly knew Karl enough to dispel his story - the person who gave the boys their last ride home.
This is all a web of confusion but somebody in all of this information is the person who was in that cabin. Mike Gamberg said himself that he didn't believe Tina was carried across the swinging bridge but was carried out of Keddie in one of the vehicles seen that night.
Justin said the boys came in around midnight SO if they were brought to Cabin 28 around 10:00pm but left again then it's very possible that their 2nd and final time home was around midnight. Mike claims that xxx took them home between 10:00pm - 1:00am
From the autopsy reports the boys did not fight anyone - only Sue fought. So did someone follow the boys home then go in and confront and attack them with Sue rushing to the living room after hearing the scuffle? The boys were already bleeding by the time Sue walked in one of their blood - so she was up and mobile - not tied and restrained - when that happened. So I can't for the life of me see Sue in the floor bound or bound and gagged but being able to walk in that blood with her hands and feet tied together. The only way that could happen is if she was bound and gagged after coming to the aid of J&D not the other way around - meaning Sue was not the target.
A lot of lies and liars line the pages of these timelines and statements but there was too much talk about ripoffs, parties, and rides for there not to be a little truth somewhere in the mix. Marty Smartt committing these murders was nothing but the Meeks talking.
Karl, Chuck and Henry, Phillip, Steve D, Steve H, Kathy, xxx, and Donna. What did these people tell LE?
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Post by hope on May 9, 2021 18:34:08 GMT -6
Something is there. Keep digging, I know you guys are : )
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Post by snoho17 on May 11, 2021 15:14:02 GMT -6
Please list those 200 lies? In any order. Here's the thing slappy, I may ponder and speculate about Peeples statements, but I really don't consider them evidentiary fact. I BELIEVE KS was in Keddie that night, and for no good reason that I can discern. Does Karl being in keddie make marde a murderer? I don't KNOW. We're left to speculate from what little we're given, and that's all anybody has.
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 13, 2021 1:08:47 GMT -6
810411-0000c (Morning -Time Unknown) Carl Spang goes to the Morning Dew (Morning Thunder) to contact "Dana" to obtain drugs. "Dana" is a WMA, 18-22, dark brown shoulder length hair, mustache, starting a beard with a space between the ends of the mustache & beard. "Dana" said he would pick it up at a party at Roger's house in Meadow Valley. <Carl Spang / Stoy> 810411-2130c (2130-2200) Carl Spang leaves the Greenville show & drives to Meadow Valley. He sees "Dana" & another man, "John" or Jake" & inside were two WMAs well dressed & two other WMAs. The six got into a dark blue LTD and a small car & Carl followed them to Quincy & then to Keddie. <Carl Spang / Stoy>
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 13:31:26 GMT -6
Think Spang saw something while sitting at the pond burnin' one and chillin'? I do.
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Post by belmarduk on Aug 13, 2021 13:42:39 GMT -6
Think Spang saw something while sitting at the pond burnin' one and chillin'? I do. Yes, being ripped off for a bag of weed by some teenagers isn't a motive for the murders BUT maybe, if you're a sociopath, sit there and watch? maybe.
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 13, 2021 14:22:23 GMT -6
I think there was a reason those three vehicles would enter Keddie at the same time. I think Karl could have been told to wait while the deal went down, if he was unknown to one of "the players". I absolutely know people have been killed for weed, and much less. I know people when confronted about dealing other things, would claim they dealt in weed, even before legalization weed was more socially acceptable. I know when people do get killed over weed, it's actually over the $$$ money. Karl said he was smoking while at the pond, if he already had a personal stash I would guess A) he was there to buy in bulk or B) it wasn't weed he was there for.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 14:47:40 GMT -6
IF K. Spang saw anything, I think someone frightened him to keep quiet.
Postby jhancock » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:04 pm Karl Spang was originally going to be a part of Cabin 28: The Keddie Murders Part II.
Many will recall that Karl was mentioned sporadically throughout the police timeline; he expressed to us that he had been repeatedly harassed by Plumas County police during the time of the murders...
We had an interview day and time set up, but a gentleman we had previously interviewed took it upon himself to contact Karl's daughter "on our behalf."
This young man frightened Karl's daughter, and because they both believed he was part of our team (he wasn't), Karl canceled the interview. (Wonder who frightened Karl's daughter??)
-----------------------------------------------------
...Here is a two-page report about Karl's experience.
The date of the report 5-5-81:
I recontacted Karl S. by phone to confirm that he will take Deputy Wright to Meadow Valley and to arrange a hypnosis session with Sheriff Thomas. Prior to talking to him, however, I talked with his mother...
...I then talked to Karl.
He refused to give me any further cooperation in this case, stating he was afraid for himself and his children and that he can have witnesses testify that he didn't go to Quincy on Saturday 4-11-81.
Also he said that is all he had to say and if he is asked to cooperate further he will obtain an attorney and file harassment charges against the S/O.
Also that he will not take anyone to Meadow Valley and will not consent to a polygraph or hypnosis.
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Post by belmarduk on Aug 13, 2021 15:36:58 GMT -6
Is Spang still alive?
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Post by johnreno on Aug 13, 2021 15:52:15 GMT -6
Karl is still alive but he was living in Greenville which more or less burned to the ground last week. I think he's on FB though.
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Post by hope on Aug 13, 2021 17:47:15 GMT -6
I agree with everything you each said. I definitely think he knows a lot and was scared off. I also think it's all connected, him, those other vehicles, xx bartender, Beckley, J&Ds ride home. His story was difficult to follow, but we dont have the actual reports to see how it changed over time. And people do change their story over fear. No matter what, his van was seen at the pond just like he told LE. He had no good reason to be there, the only thing that makes sense is a drug deal, just like he said. He thought J&D ripped him off. It seems like he was waiting for them to come meet him & they never showed up. He assumed he had been ripped off only to find out later they had been murdered.
And if being 100% honest, this right here bothers me...it's a snippet of an email Gamberg sent Dmac:
I read this as Gamberg read Spang reports, labeled it "bullshit babble re: drug motive" and focused on the Marty & Sue affair as "possible motive". Like Snoho just said elsewhere, all leads to to be exhausted. Was Spang talked to about his claims or was it just blown off??
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