Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Jon on Jul 24, 2020 16:57:55 GMT -6
While a Yonkers detective concluded in 1998 that "there is no concrete evidence other than the statements of David Berkowitz and [redacted, but presumably "Tiny" of the Rat Pack]" that a certain Nobel Prize-winning doctor and "principle member of the Westchester occult group" was present when Etan Patz was murdered, it's not at all hard to believe that the cult was involved. It was the right time period, the right location, and precisely the kind of sick activity that the cult's leaders enjoyed.
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Post by james1983 on Jul 25, 2020 1:17:42 GMT -6
Who was the Nobel prize winning Doctor? I know the murder Ana Mendieta was linked to Crispo and the group. Mendieta was an occult "artist" who was married to another occult artist named Carl Andre. She "fell" 34 stories out of her apartment window somehow lol. The murder of Lisa Steinberg always touched me the most. The condition of her body when she died was unspeakable.
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Post by james1983 on Jul 25, 2020 1:24:31 GMT -6
Was it Daniel Carlton Gajdusek from Yonkers who was charged with pedophilia and fled to Europe?
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Post by james1983 on Jul 25, 2020 1:46:34 GMT -6
I don't know if it was Gajdusek or not, but he was a sick SOB anyway. He brought over 56 children to the US to "educate" them, and ended up raping them instead. The sick fuck was drilling holes in monkey heads for research. Being from Yonkers can't be a coincidence.
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Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Jon on Jul 25, 2020 4:02:37 GMT -6
It was Gajdusek, yep. Berkowitz said Gajdusek was deeply involved in the cult's sex crimes against children, and that he would have known about the plans for the Son of Sam attacks though he was not a direct participant.
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Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Jon on Jul 25, 2020 9:01:53 GMT -6
Thanks, Omega! Good to be here. No, the most recent photo I can find of him is from 2016--I'll have to use some different search criteria. What's our boy been up to?
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Jon
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by Jon on Jul 25, 2020 10:52:03 GMT -6
Ah, I gotcha. Well, if we ever want to see "Reeve T. Carl" face to face, we know where to find him!
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jack
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by jack on Dec 22, 2020 13:44:32 GMT -6
Vlogger reads letter from Bill Mentzer 8/16/20 Mentzer denies being involved in the Arliss Perry murder or association with SOS, Manson and Berkowitz.
Go to 5:00 minute mark
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Post by Omega on Dec 22, 2020 16:08:45 GMT -6
Thanks for posting that Jack, very interesting!
Haven't seen any direct reaction from Mentzer out there, in regards to the Son of Sam case. It usually comes from third party contacts that have spoken to him - PI Tony Sperl or Mentzer's ex-girlfriend, etc. So, it was interesting to see something from him direct.
Mentzer could have easily been aloof and cryptic with his response on the Son of Sam involvement. He could have not denied his involvement and instead make it sound like he was somehow involved, without directly answering. If you ever watch some of the suspects implicated in famous cases like Zodiac or D.B. Cooper, they kind of relish the attention and don't deny or confirm things, especially in these days of the internet and social media. Mentzer flat out denies it. Does he have anything to lose by going along with the charade?
As I have mentioned in other parts of the boards here, and don't get me wrong - Mentzer is a bad dude. He was at least involved in two legitimate murders that are known - Roy Radin and June Mincher. For all the attention being connected to Manson, Zodiac AND Son of Sam, he could probably take the other approach and string people along like Berkowitz has all these years. I just don't buy that he was Manson II or had anything to do with the Son of Sam shootings.
The vlogger seems to be struck on how could Berkowitz come up with Mentzer's name, if it wasn't true. Berkowitz has never named Mentzer direct. It was Maury coming up with that, piecing things together through prison informants who supposedly spoke with Berkowitz.
It has always been my impression that this was one of the elements that Maury tried to make the connection, in order to make "The Ultimate Evil" a larger story. Yes, it was probably true that Roy Radin had some connection to the Son of Sam group. Maybe not the foot soldiers carrying out the crimes, but the higher ups (or "higher society ups" who were running the game plan). I don't know if anyone has ever confirmed that Maury allegation that Radin was in a contact book that Berkowitz had.
Radin is murdered by Mentzer and Alex Marti in 1983. I believe this is where the concept of creating Mentzer as "Manson II" in the Son of Sam saga comes into play. Maury's excellent reporting/articles in the 1979-1981 time frame, as a reporter for the Gannett Westchester Rockland newspaper chain, on the Son of Sam cult connections and analysis of the crime scenes (especially the Moskowitz-Violante shootings) are the foundation for "The Ultimate Evil". But, it was still a New York and North Dakota story for a book. He needed something to expand the story nationwide. The Arlis Perry angle, with her being from North Dakota and getting murdered in a ritualistic sacrifice in a church in California, helped expand the story. If the story can be extended even further, in getting the "goose that laid the golden egg" involved (aka Charles Manson!), the story/book is then golden!
Mentzer was a Californian. He was of the right age group to be around California in the time of Manson and in 1974 with the Perry case. By really being involved with the Roy Radin murder, that gave way for Maury making Mentzer the connection that ties all the dots together across Country, time and crimes.
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ace
Full Member
Posts: 184
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Post by ace on Dec 22, 2020 18:12:42 GMT -6
Vlogger reads letter from Bill Mentzer 8/16/20 Mentzer denies being involved in the Arliss Perry murder or association with SOS, Manson and Berkowitz. Go to 5:00 minute mark Interesting stuff, thanks! I always wondered if anyone ever bothered to reach out. |
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 23, 2020 10:11:37 GMT -6
I think the problem with claiming that So and So is "Manson II" begins with the problem of just who the hell "Manson I" is. Is he a contract killer? Charlie never killed anybody. He supposedly shot Lotsapoppa in self-defense, but that "case" stars a laundry list of the least reliable "witnesses" in history. Is he a cult leader? Bill Mentzer couldn't lead a pack of starving dogs to a pile of raw meat. Is he a CIA mind-controlled patsy? Mentzer's no patsy.
Is he a CIA-trained mind control brainwasher? A lot of Manson "Family" associates fit the profile of a WANNABE Charlie. Paul Watkins. Dean Moorehouse. Tex Watson. Tex Watson sounds like the kind of guy that Maury was trying to say Mentzer is, but isn't. But Tex never got out jail. Who else? Bill Vance. "Reverend" Jerome "Shorty" Shea. But Shorty's dead. What about Mark Rosen?
Is "Manson I" an intelligent, sociopathic Scientology-trained pimp, procurer, and pornographer with friends in low Hollyweird places who also kills people, possibly for hire? That sounds a little bit like Rodney Alcala. Rodney spent plenty of time in NY and God knows where else. He was paroled in 1976. Does anyone know the exact day he was released? He was out long enough to be a Hillside Strangler(s) suspect. Ellen Jane Hover disappeared July 15, 1977. We don't know what day she died. You could easily characterize her murder as an assassination. Of AAAALLLLLL the possible "Manson II's" only one is known to have possessed Charlie's distinctive kind of charm--Rodrigo Alcala-Buquor. I don't see Bill Mentzer winning any TV dating contests. Charlie? Charlie could have won 52 episodes of the Dating Game straight.
What was the state of the Manson Legend when Maury wrote his book? Who, and what, were Manson supposed to be, at that time? Charles Manson was 10 or 12 different Charles Mansons. Which one is supposed to be "Manson I?"
I can find one, and only one, person who fits ALL the criteria. Just one. One person who can be proved to have been a very important member of the Manson Family Hit Squad, a solid-gold suspect in one of the "Zodiac" murders, AND everything "Manson II" is supposed to be. The funny thing is, this person, if he is "Manson II," not to mention [one of the] "Zodiac," would himself be final, definitive proof that there was some kind of government/CIA/blah, blah, blah involvement in something bigger than the sum of ALL those parts. And more.
So, for now, I am going to declare that we have pretty much eliminated Mentzer as "Manson II." I think we can say that Maury never did prove any real links between the Manson and Son of Sam cases, period. We have found some on the podcast, but it's all only tangentially covered, if at all, by Maury.
IF there ever was a "Manson II," I submit he must fit all the following criteria:
1. A Leader. Not just a soldier. Mentzer was pretty much a soldier, not a Leader.
2. CIA and Scientology trained.
3. CIA/FBI asset of some kind. A high-value informant, or something worth keeping out of jail at all costs.
4. Directly connected to Manson. Leonard Lake and Philip Arthur Thompson come to mind, but there is no clear direct link to Manson. And I have a really hard time believing that Maury could have found any, at the time. But most, if not all, of the Lake/Ng victims look more like planned "hits" than "random" victims. Just. Like. Son. Of. Sam. IN-direct links to Manson abound. And I suggest that Leonard may have been drafted into the same "Program" as Manson, Jones, and others. Maybe ditto for Alcala. But...
5. Had his shit completely together. So completely that he was never caught or exposed. Unlike Manson.
6. And who, according to Maury, was not only "Son of Sam," but also, maybe, "Zodiac."
Angelo Buono, who had a cousin Kenneth Bianchi living in Rochester, NY at the time, was still on the loose during the SOS murders. Buono was a pimp and a murderer. If Bianchi could travel to LA to murder people, why couldn't Buono travel to NY to murder people? But he was caught in early 1978. Veronica Compton attempted to commit a copycat "Hillside Strangler" crime to give Bianchi an "alibi." THAT was interesting. Bianchi also looked a LOT like Mentzer back in the day. I will set up a Hillside Strangler board today (I just now realized I never set one up. Scusa ti.)
"I" have found one suspect that fits ALL the criteria. Just one. I'm saving him for the podcast, for now. But I'd sure love to hear about others.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 23, 2020 10:54:27 GMT -6
Jebus, Mario, I just now saw this post of yours: I think there's a good chance that Pedro Hernandez was set up. Everyone, including the Patz family, initially believed the perpetrator was Jose Ramos, a known pedophile who dated Etan's babysitter Susan Harrington. Ramos was caught luring kids into the tunnels of Van Cortlandt Park, [David Crosby is a van Cortland, and he attended 3HO-friendly Crane Country Day School as a kid.] a known Process cult meeting site. And one person recounted being in a meditation class with Susan, that was described as the gateway to some "guru cult". [Yup. That's 3HO, all right. And it's a PEDOPHILE guru cult.] Pedro was interrogated for hours off camera before the police finally switched on the recording and got his confession. Even then, his story had gaps that some investigators were quoted in early news reports as leading them to doubt the story. And as you say, it took two trials before they finally convicted him. During the first trial, Etan's childhood friend, restaurateur Chelsea Altman, said Etan discussed taking a trip with "Johnny" whom she testified was an imaginary friend, and was then confronted with her initial statement to investigators that "Johnny" was Jose Ramos.Very plausible that Ramos was an Andre Rand [Cropsey]-type figure, a street lowlife who worked on behalf of the cult to obtain child victims. Hell, maybe he was an accomplice. Or other kind of friend.Again, Jebus. Don't take my word about 3HO: www.gurmukhyoga.com/forum/index.php?mode=thread&id=387 |
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Post by marionumber1 on Dec 26, 2020 10:55:02 GMT -6
Sounds very likely that 3HO is what was being referred to. Let me share the full post from this person who knew Susan Harrington and was in the same cult with her:  |
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 27, 2020 10:56:10 GMT -6
Oh, I've never seen one single solitary solid reason to scratch Susan Harrington off the list of suspects and/or possible accomplices. And that goes double for Stan Patz. Those photos of little Etan are just a little too gorgeous. And the massive publicity campaign when he "disappeared" just seemed to be more about the photos (and the parents) than it was about Etan. And another funny thing--for a lifelong "professional photographer," Stan Patz's portfolio is virtually nowhere to be found. Only photos of Etan, and of his grieving, grieving, grieving, grieving, parents.He does have a very limited website. You'll notice all of his "people" photos are ssssseeeeeeeexxxxyyyyy. www.patzimaging.com/shave.htmlBoth pedophilia and infanticide are more common than people want to think about. There's the Medea motive: "You broke my heart; now, I'm going to break yours." There's the ol' reliable postpartum depression. There's the Hansel and Gretel scenario. Let me give you a horrifying example from my insurance days. We (the industry) created a series of safety PSA's, about not sleeping in the same bed with your baby. You know--you might roll over in your sleep and smother the baby. You'd be surprised how often it happens. Well....in one rural county alone, we saw ELEVEN cases in the first 30 days after we started running the ad in that market. And such cases spiked dramatically in every market. Nowhere, NOWHERE, did the rate of such "accidents" go down. Always up. I won't tell you the horror story about the woman we were questioning over some plain old insurance fraud (as always, an inside job--she was a claims adjuster.) Once she started talking, she couldn't stop. Seven hours. No bathroom break. No lunch. Just nodding our heads and taking notes. Eventually, she blurted out that she had killed her 9-month old baby. We had had suspicions, of course. It was another one of those "fidgety child and the high chair fell over" cases. I don't see any reason at all to rule out Stan Patz. And I'll say it again--those photos of Etan are just a little TOO gorgeous. |
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Post by marionumber1 on Dec 27, 2020 12:18:28 GMT -6
Interesting that you mention that. I hadn't ever before suspected Stan Patz of complicity in Etan's disappearance itself, but he did clearly change his story to line up with the official narrative about Pedro Hernandez. From that Franklin Files thread with that woman who talked about meeting Susan through the meditation class:  This was actually a month or so after Pedro Hernandez was first identified as a suspect. Nevertheless, Stan seemed interested in Jose Ramos's girlfriend, and he openly called her "the woman who babysat/escorted my son". Compare that to him in 2016, during Hernandez's second trial ( www.thevillager.com/2016/11/scoopys-notebook-nov-10-2016/): Why has he contradicted himself about the closeness/level of access Susan had to Etan? |
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