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Post by karis on Feb 23, 2020 8:19:40 GMT -6
These are questions I have about the case. 1. What is under Johnnys arm? Is it one of the blue shirts (not the denim on the table)? When the body is moved this particular pattern of (?blood) is not there.   2. Why did Sheila call Donna Williams that morning? D., Pat was interviewed on 5-7-81 by SA Crim. Pat said on 5-5-81 she picked up Donna W., who was very drunk. Donna said the FBI was going to arrest her for murder. Donna was very emotional. She said she had given Dana and Johnny a ride to Exxon early and then gave them a ride to Keddie at 10:30 pm. Pat said she is unable to tell whether [Donna] was hallucinating or what. Donna talked about Steve D. and said she didn't think he would lie to her. Pat told her Steve would lie, in her opinion. Donna would not talk any more about Steve. Pat feels like Donna has guilty feelings because she and the others didn't give Dana and Johnny a ride to Keddie. Donna has an alcoholic problem and probably is a drug user. Donna fights a lot when she gets to drinking. She suspects Donna would know the drug dealer. When Donna talked about picking up Johnny and Dana and taking them to Keddie, she said there were three kids. She never could figure out whether Donna took them to Keddie or not. Donna is the person who called her on Sunday, 4-12-81, and told her about the murders. Sheila Sharp told Donna about them 3. Did the boys come home and leave again that night? INTERVIEW OF SHIELA SHARP DETERMINED THAT SHE LAST SAW HER MOTHER ALIVE AT APPROXIMATELY 10:00 PM 810411-2000c (2000-2100) Sheila Sharp went home for night clothes and returned to the Seabolt’s 10-15 minutes later. Sue said Johnny & Dana had gone back to town. <Sheila Sharp / Bradley> According to Justin, they raked leaves and left home to go back to Quincy around 1:30. They were seen all through the day. They raked yards sometime that day but when? 4. Where was Johnny's red bandana? It was not mention in the articles collected from the autopsy report. It is not mentioned at the crime scene. 5. The cowboy hat 810411-1830c (1830-1900) Luclia [Lucilia] Shumway sees Dana coming from area of FR Apartments. He was wearing a blue with wide tan stripe shirt, light tan cord pants & a cowboy hat. (Contradicts other statements.) <Luclia Shumway / Bradley> (those were the clothes he was wearing) HER PANTIES WERE STUFFED IN HER MOUTH AND A HATBAND FROM WINGATE'S COWBOY-TYPE HAT WAS ALSO TIED AROUND HER MOUTH. 6. What did they eat that day? No one mentions them eating. I would think Dana would have eaten. Kathy Beckley said they had a tab cola at her house and Dana gave himself a shot of insulin. 7. Who gave the boys a ride back to Quincy after returning home. I can't believe they did all that walking that day, afternoon and night. 8. Whose school papers were scattered in the floor? There was a paperback of John Travolta so i'm assuming it was not Johnny's. |
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curio
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Post by curio on Apr 19, 2020 15:59:36 GMT -6
I have a question but wasn’t sure where it fit best so I’ll leave it here. Dana was a diabetic and traveled with necessary medication, he was seen giving himself a shot earlier in the day. Most diabetics I know carry their medication in a case with them for emergencies. Was a case containing his medication ever discovered at the scene or nearby or a needle or vials? Further questions revolving around a case: 1.) is it possible that (if he was in fact an informant as part of his probation) that a recording device could’ve also been inside the case? 2.) is it likely that he would’ve stored other drugs (like acid for example) inside and that would explain why it wasn’t present?
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Post by kmik on Apr 23, 2020 20:20:11 GMT -6
Read the "Welcome" thread under the topic, "D is for" |
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Post by dt2016 on Jun 1, 2020 1:00:18 GMT -6
Hi, just wondering if the podcasts are re-edited or different in some way. I heard you say you guys were going to do an update or something similar.
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Post by kmik on Nov 25, 2020 8:07:28 GMT -6
In an April 7, 2016 post by Marilyn on Keddie28 she said:
So this would indicate that she willingly submitted her DNA to (Gamberg?) in 2015.
Interesting snippets from Mike's files posted by Dmac:
I'm assuming that when he's referring to the "FBI" and "2016" he's referring to the same two agents: Andy and Perry? If so would this be "Andy": (from DT's personal files)
Could this package sent to Doug from the FBI in 2016 have been sent by Agent Andrew Forristel and was this the same agent who interviewed Marilyn?
All of that could be a stretch but, if true, would certainly seem to indicate that Mike took Marilyns DNA in 2015. Then by the time ID and People Magazine stepped into the picture, 2016, Mike calls in the FBI to interview Marilyn -why?. And did they even know enough about the 36 year old case to even question her or was this a just list of questions Mike wanted them to ask her? Was this all done for "show"?
Around the same time someone from the FBI (Chico) was sending Doug Thomas a package (that he probably requested and possibly with their business card in it?). I don't see the FBI being involved in the case again after being asked by Mike to do the interview with Marilyn. Just wonder if they too thought Mike Gamberg was turning this cold case into a "show".
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Post by karis on Nov 25, 2020 10:16:25 GMT -6
It appears that the FBI were called in again in 2016 to review this case, or to at least test some more DNA. I would think Mike told them of the BIG revelation of police corruption and mafia ties. Upon reviewing the information we know that they contacted Doug Thomas, even sending him information to review. After all this case was cold.
There is NO evidence that Marilyn was involved in that murder. Her DNA was submitted and was not found matching what they have. End of story. So we have to take her out of the equation. But Justin's is. That is fact according to what we have. Any of us on this forum know what dmac can't comprehend. They were questioning her as to what Justin told her that morning and in the days following. That is a no-brainer. If he was talking to his brother Casey about the crime then he was talking to her and Marty about the crime. They were pressuring her to tell them WHAT Justin knew.
It says to me that Doug's input in the case was more credible than the crap Mike was telling them and they wanted to talk to Doug. End of Story.
Are we know to take dmac's word that these 2 FBI agents were also in on the corruption of the 36(?) year old case?
I often listen to Trace Evidence Podcast. This is a quote from the host Steven, and it reminded me of this case:
"you can't work with evidence you don't have. You've got to follow what you do have. Once you start wondering down the road to speculation to far, you begin to start making the evidence fit the crime rather than having the crime fit the evidence."
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Post by kmik on Nov 25, 2020 22:23:24 GMT -6
Karis said: So true! Or you start Making Up evidence to fit the crime rather than letting the crime fit evidence.
If Marilyn gave DNA in 2015 then by the time she was interviewed by the FBI in 2016 they certainly should have known if her DNA was at the scene. And if they really believed (as Dmac has said) that she was involved in these murders then why in the world did they exit after this interview without constantly bringing her in for questioning? The snippets we've seen only implies they were trying to make her believe they thought she was involved so they could extract from her anything Justin may have told her. Justin's DNA was found and Justin is who they were interested in.
Also if the FBI were still "involved" in the "investigation" by 2019 then why would the PCSO have let Mike go knowing he had the help of the FBI and a meeting with VIDOCQ? Makes no sense. The only thing that makes sense is that Mike wasted a lot of time going down the "Marty Smartt" and "Mafia" pig trails. There is absolutely nothing wrong with him checking out everything - but he should have checked out EVERYTHING whether it led back to Marty or not. Instead he jumped on board with Dmac for the ID Show, People Magazine, Plumas News, and any other news outlet he could always insinuating Marty was the killer without any real evidence. And where, 4 years later, has all that corruption and mafia "talk" taken this case? Absolutely nowhere.
Now here we are in 2020 with Mike handing over his case files in exchange for Doug Thomas "secret files" and Vickie on standby to report the latest findings in the Plumas County News. Maybe Vickie could write an article on "Doug's Secret Files" and all those psychics that Dmac said Doug Thomas sought the help of when he supposedly already knew who the killers were. Aw, she can't do that because then it might appear that he had no idea who committed these murders.
Wow, Mike and Vickie really backed themselves into a corner.
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Post by hope on Nov 26, 2020 7:36:18 GMT -6
Maybe Vickie could write an article on "Doug's Secret Files" and all those psychics that Dmac said Doug Thomas sought the help of when he supposedly already knew who the killers were. Aw, she can't do that because then it might appear that he had no idea who committed these murders.
Wow, Mike and Vickie really backed themselves into a corner.
Well said! Excellent posts guys #truth |
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Post by kmik on Nov 26, 2020 9:57:27 GMT -6
The Keddie case no longer seems to be the focus replaced instead by a desire to prove corruption in any of the LE involved - especially Doug Thomas who left the PCSO 3 months after the murders. A decade of nothing but distraction
Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving!! |
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Post by hope on Nov 28, 2020 14:10:10 GMT -6
A couple more items related to karis & kmik's previous posts.
These are snippets from a post made on keddie28's forum and Facebook page on September 21, 2020. He is discussing information obtained from Gamberg's files. 28 states he has scanned 300 pages of these files:
The information below is from police reports Gamberg made during his time as special investigator on the Keddie case:
So, in addition to Marilyn's DNA, they were also attempting to extract DNA from the letters Marty sent Marilyn and collected DNA from Princess's daughter in hope of a familial match to Bo. (Although I am not sure what that bit about her daughter not being Bo's means exactly....a joke perhaps? Also, wouldn't Princess's DNA, instead of her daughters, be a closer match to Bo?)
A little further down in the same post is a follow up regarding Marty's DNA:
According to a police report they were successful in retrieving Marty's DNA from the letters. No mention of whether it was matched to the DNA found at the scene. However, you would think we would have heard about it if his DNA was a match. They have already publicly named Marty & Bo as the main suspects, including in the Feather River Bulletin, People Magazine, and the People Magazine Investigates show aired on Investigation Discovery. I am going to take a guess that Marty's DNA was not a match.
He also mentions, a secondary female DNA hit found on some of the electrical cords and in a blood sample. In the past, there has been mention of Tina collecting electrical cords from the girls bedroom that night. This was mentioned in the cabin tour outtake video from Josh's documentary.
Sheila also had this to say in an old forum chat:
I had assumed PCSO have Tina's DNA on file and matched it to those electrical cords, hence the report Sheila is referring to. This may be incorrect since in his post 28 mentions Gamberg "began a search to see if DNA was ever attempted or extracted from her skeletal remains". I assume he is referring to Tina's remains? The report also suggests running Marilyn's DNA again. No follow up on that is posted. However, that report was from 2014 or 2015. As kmik & karis already pointed out, Marilyn stated in a 2016 post that she had given a sample of her DNA the previous year. She was then interviewed by the FBI in 2016.
We know Marilyn voluntarily gave a DNA sample which was run at least once and not matched to any evidence at the scene.
And finally, from the same September 21st post on keddie28, Dee Lake is discussed:
Dee Lake also submitted a DNA sample. I think it is safe to assume his DNA was also not a match, otherwise he would have been arrested.
Based on that one post alone we learn PCSO does indeed have suspect DNA on file and they also obtained DNA samples on Marty, Marilyn, Bo (familial from Princess), and Dee. It appears not one of the 4 main suspects DNA could be matched to the DNA from the crime scene. So, who exactly was in the cabin that night???
Parabon Labs has helped solve nearly 100 cold cases through genetic genealogy. If PCSO would upload their unknown suspects DNA into Parabons database this case can be solved too. The victims and their families deserve true justice.
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Post by kmik on Nov 28, 2020 17:23:59 GMT -6
Thanks for that post Hope. I guess I completely missed the fact that Dee submitted his DNA in 2013. Here are a few things all this leads me to believe:
*PCSO obtained DNA from many POI's over the years (including Marilyn, Dee, Marty) that was never a match to DNA from the scene.
*Around 2014/15 Marilyn willingly submitted her DNA for testing which led to the DNA match being linked to Justin but leaving DNA from a female that has since been matched to Tina (or had already been matched to Tina but never revealed).
OR:
*PCSO has DNA that has never been matched to anyone.
Doesn't it seem that they have already matched the DNA that they have? If not then surely (like you pointed out) they would have sent it off for the genetic genealogy testing that was so popular around 2018 when all those PCSO news articles were being written and Mike was headed off to VIDOCQ. Or is it possible that they did send it off and found out it was Tina's which put a stop to the PCSO desiring to go any further? There is no way this case was as hot as it supposedly was in the summer of 2018 only to end up cold again 6 months later.
April 27, 2018 Plumas News
Maybe by September the evidence they were hoping to have was not what they were hoping for?
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Post by hope on Nov 28, 2020 19:51:17 GMT -6
I had initially missed that about Dee as well. I only caught it when I was re-reading everything.
Those are some good thoughts regarding the DNA. It had never crossed my mind that perhaps they have already matched all the DNA evidence they have. I hope that is not the case but it is definitely possible. That would explain the way the case seems to have gone from "hot" to "cold". And you are right, it sounds like they were expecting some results from that September evidence that didn't pan out the way they were hoping. Good catch. I wonder what that could have been. If there is DNA from an unknown individual it would certainly make sense to submit that for the genetic genealogy instead of spending endless amounts of time on re-interviewing, going through old case files, etc. So perhaps there isn't any additional DNA to match. But then there is still the blue denim shirt which as far as we know they do not have results from. Since they believe it was left by the suspect it should be an obvious choice for testing.
Over time I have been saving anything I find regarding DNA and evidence. I am going to take a look through that and see what else we can find.
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Post by hope on Nov 28, 2020 20:30:55 GMT -6
Correction to my previous post, it appears the denim shirt was indeed sent for DNA testing according to an October 21, 2020 post by 28:
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Post by kmik on Nov 28, 2020 20:32:15 GMT -6
We posted at the same time so I deleted some of my post but left the report up. The denim shirt had to have been tested. Dmac just hasn't found the results (remember he's only working off of Mike and Dougs files).
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Post by kmik on Nov 28, 2020 21:11:43 GMT -6
From what I found Doyle Frazier (the detective who submitted the evidence in the report) worked at the PCSO from 1991-2005 and Dmac said, "The first signature on the Chain of Evidence section is dated 3-25-04, the last being 2009" so I would think this evidence was probably submitted in 2004 since that is the first date on the evidence report and Frazier retired the next year.
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