Darely Josephson showed the police his gun 4-12-81 and Dee Lake showed the police his gun 4-22-81.
From FBI Profile Report:
The crime scene reflects that he did not precisely plan on killing all the victims. With exception of a .177-caliber pellet recovered at the crime scene, all of the 'weapons' appear to have come from the residence of the victims (i.e., steak knife, hammer, etc.). This indicates that killing the victims was in all probability an afterthought.
From FBI Report:
Regarding the .22 caliber pellet found at the crime scene, this was determined to be a true pellet fired from a pellet gun. The pellet is round in shape and does not appear to be obviously misshapened from striking an object, although the possibility exists that it may be slightly out of round indicating it may have struck a soft object which did not leave a hard impression on the pellet. The pellet has actually been determined to be a .177 caliber pellet
From Stoy Evidence Report:
Rear sight adjuster ramp on living room floor near Victim #3
Bracket that holds rear sight adjuster ramp in living room
Pellet on floor in living room between victim #1 and Victim #2 heads
Early Report from Field Office:
A HAMMER WAS THE APPARENT INSTRUMENT USED IN THE
BEATING OF GLENNA AND JOHN AND A CLAW HAMMER AND A BLUNT INSTRUMENT
SUCH AS THE BARREL OF A RIFLE WERE THE MUDER WEAPONS ON DANA
From 6-4-81 Phone Interview with Ricky and Sheila:
Q: ARE YOU SURE JOHNNY DIDN'T HAVE A PELLET GUN? A: "SHEILA" - HE DIDN'T HAVE A PELLET GUN. MOM (SUE) MIGHT HAVE PUT ONE ON LAY-AWAY FOR JOHNNY, BUT SHE DIDN'T PICK ONE UP.
From PON list:
HOLBERT, JACKIE (SHARP KIDS AUNT) took remaining Sharp kids to Oregon, no blue sweatshirt in clothing, info on John having pellet gun <SHANKS>/<THOMAS>
There was a handwritten note in the case files from Stoy to Bradley about a pellot gun recovered from Weaver's son in May 1983. It had a broken sight. It was not in the 1984 two page report on Ward Weaver.
JMO, I could not find the note and I believe it was on MK's at one time do you have it saved? It was not on the 1984 Ward Weaver report and the report says Ward Weaver was considered a potential suspect during the original investigation. Wonder why.
The police knew from day one that a pellet gun had been used in some way since a broken sight and ONE pellet was found. The early field report shows the police believed the barrel of the gun was used as a weapon in the murders to beat Dana (Dmac may have expanded on that by saying Sue was struck with the butt of the gun but he didn't invent the idea of the gun being used because the police thought, early on, that Dana was beaten with the barrel). PON lists says Aunt Jackie had info on him having a gun - what was the info??? Yes or No or Don't Know?? Sheila and Ricky were still being questioned in June about who owned the gun. It's crazy to think someone risked sneaking the gun into 28 without being seen but then didn't even use it to shoot anyone. Why go to all that risky trouble when they ended up using what was already in the cabin anyway??
Well, I am very pleased with the amount of discussion going on here.
And, for some reason I am stuck on that "gun". I hope ya'll don't mind my throwing my notes out there in the A-Z fashion. It's just easier for me to find things here, and I hope you all feel the same. Hard to find my butt with both hands sometimes with this. Just. So. Much. So. Many. People. My apologies if it's annoying anyone.
K and K you have done a tremendous job of keeping this case alive. After all the bashing you've taken through the years (can you believe it's been years?!?), I commend you. Like I said, you're my go to persons. Kudos.
My notes are somewhat "just for me" but, I'm comfortable enough throwing them out here and (fingers crossed) having you somewhat understand them. I don't feel like I need to explain each and everything thing to any of you. (Pretty sure this is where Dmac went nucking futs.) So, I thank you two and Tom for this site. Pretty awesome the work you've all done. And, Tom, I'm not holding my breathe waiting for Hagwood to be on film, but, oh, if you can make that happen...
Well, I. Can't. Even. That'd be even better than Dmac having his face revealed. And, I must've watched that a thousand times.
So, this gun.
IF it was involved in ANY aspect of this....That just might be kinda big.
Gun pellot/Zodiak/Weaver son/Jim rifle/ pellot/BB/air rifle/shot gun see *Tony Gardakis. Marty pulled shot gun out on Marilyn? (Dmac) Neither Bo or Marty owned a gun. Dee Lake left his car at Marilyn's see *Dee Lake 5/28/06-"It is true that Jim sat in a chair with a gun for just in case." (Marilyn? Is she only the 2nd person to verify "Jim"?) -A ramp to a gun was found in the Sharp home. 4/8/81 Lake remembered he left a rifle in his car and went to Marty's to get it before kids found it or it got stolen. Lake couldn't find it in his car. Asked Marty about it. Marty said he didn't know about it (Lake/Brubaker/Leonard) 4/11/81 Bo took Lake's rifle out of Dee's car. Marty gave it back morning of 4/11. Knew Cooney as a vet (Stoy/Thomas) Cooney? 4/11/81 am-Lake took rifle back to his home in Indian Falls (Lake/Brubaker/Leonard) -Rifle .22 cal rifle. Bo found it. Put it under couch in cabin 26. A few days later, Dee's wife asked for it and Marty gave it to her. (Marilyn) No missing parts. Not broken. 6/1/06 Marilyn: Justin was slightly built. Mostly happy go lucky. Had a temper. Mostly directed at his brother. Not a liar. He and Walter had been shooting a BB gun out the bedroom window trying to hit a street light. Questioned by police, Justin said he did it and had to pay for the window across the street from the Meeks house. (Which cabin would this be?) -Pellot gun. Missing from scene. -Holbert, Jacke (Sharp kids' aunt) took remaining kids to Oregon. No blue sweatshirt in clothing. Info on John having pellot gun (Shanks/Thomas) -There was a handwritten not in the case files from Stoy to Bradley about a pellot gun recovered from *Weaver's son in May 1983. It had a broken sight. It was not in the 1984 2 page report on Ward Weaver. -What grown man brings a pellot gun to (a home invasion)? Dmac: "Sue bludgeoned by rifle (rifle?) Wingate manually strangled and bludgeoned with another weapon. (From article) Dmac? "2 sized hammers. Daisy Powerline 288 rifle used to bludgeon Sue. Rifle never found. Dmac-The rifle barrel was also used, perhaps also the butt/stock. However, the crushing post mortem blows to Dana's head came from another object-perhaps the leg from the folding card table. Also possible the blows were meant to disguise the use of the rifle (which the killers brought and removed) but the puncture wound to Sue's right cheek is clearly from the barrel tip sight. The gun at the scene is very different from the rifles owned by: Dee Lake, Daryl If a pellot gun is the same as a BB gun, it would be similar to only Justin's (or Walter's) that Marilyn talked about. Mrs. Meeks: On the 13th Marty got news Marilyn left him for Wade. Jim (Mrs. Meeks' ex) sat by the front door with a shot gun (because) on 4/13 approximately 6 pm (around dusk) Marty stood across the street and was yelling. Marty did that off and on for several days.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO my question is:
IF we can place this gun in someone's hands, it must surely go to a killer, right?
Dmac says it is a Daisy Powerline 288 rifle.
So, to recap (for me because I come from an actual DEER HUNTING FAMILY) and there are so many references to "RIFLES" here, I think it would be wise to maybe eliminate some of the "gun/rifle" talk------
Was this like a BB gun?? Like the one Walter and Justin had? (only talk of BB gun/pellot gun that I can find?) Is that a pump shot? Like one shot at a time thing? BB guns shoot a lot of shots out, right? Why was just one pellot found? Is this pellot gun different than a BB gun? The pellot that was found was not misshapen so it didn't hit anything hard.
I guess what bothers me is the site. I can almost believe (with a stretch) that the pellot was just part of the junk on the Sharp's floor, but a site? Sites are well, sites. Used to aim at something. Attached to a gun.
IF that gun had anything to do with this murder, it would be a real benefit to put it in the hands of someone.
Has brown 68-70 dodge seen at Sharps Thursday before, his wife took Dee Lake to Martin S. house.
IF that gun had anything to do with this murder, it would be a real benefit to put it in the hands of someone.
If the gun was a pellet gun I feel sure it belong to a kid. We know a grown man would not need a pellet gun if he was really into guns for hunting ect. If a man brought a pellet gun, I don't think he initially intended to kill anyone. Really what was the point of anyone bringing the pellet gun? Was it to scare them? I would think Johnny and Dana would know the difference.
Great point(s) in my opinion. "Gun" really really seems to me as being critical as to figuring this in any small part. Sue was shot once with the Pellet/BB gun.
When in the murders did it happen? Did Johnny shoot his Mom with a borrowed BB gun?? Was it a point of contention? Sheila said Sue "..might have put one on layaway.."
I think that besides the BB gun, Three other salient points exist. Possiby wacky but: #1 , Pink Pantsuit and Belt for it?(the two items got "separated/forgotten" and went back for....but ultimately was discarded. Also pink fabric noose?? Was found! #2 Hamster, "fine hairs" found on Johnny. It has been asked before?".... what happened with the Hamster? #3 Cat. Cat? What is that Water dish on the floor in the Kitchen counter Pic with all the fingerprint "dust"? Was there a family cat?
"Glass" A month or so ago I rewatched the doc....again. I was distracted in another room but I head someone describing the scene "blood and broken glass". I dont think I caught that before. I guess I'll have to start it again.
That’s in the documentary when Marilyn is discussing things Justin had remembered enough to discuss with Doug about the crime scene but suddenly forgot after Marty talked to him. But according to Marty he told Justin not to talk in front of Casey and this was supposedly when he came home the morning of the murders and it was after that that he actually talked Doug so she was off on that point..
She talked a lot about the shoes of Justin’s that Doug supposedly said Justin walked around the crime scene in . Too bad Josh wasn’t familiar enough with the case to ask why he would have been wearing shoes if he had supposedly been in the bed.
On the documentary (years after the murders) and on the early forum around 2004? Marilyn said that LE took Justin's shoes but we don't see that in any report. Mrs. Meeks told in a post that Justin borrowed Walters boots (I assume after the murders if Justin didn't have shoes) and Richard told Marilyn in a post that he also remembered that LE took Justin's shoes. I would assume if there were some type of prints around the bodies that the police did take their shoes for testing but that's not something we know for sure.
Not sure why you'd have a problem joining Keddie28 maybe try again?
Yeah but also in the documentary law enforcement said they have no recollection of taking Justin’s shoes? And josh or Sheila or anyone outside of law enforcement who has worked on the case has said they saw either his shoes or documentation of his shoes anywhere