Excert from FBI profile/ John Douglas report | The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax of 1986

hope
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Posts: 139

Excert from FBI profile/ John Douglas report Nov 11, 2020 22:19:48 GMT -6

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Post by hope on Nov 11, 2020 22:19:48 GMT -6

I'm very sorry you had to go through something like that John. Glad to hear you and your brother are ok. And you are right, in situations like that protecting family is priority.

I too believe Sue came out trying to protect her family. The lack of defensive wounds on John and Dana definitely seems like they were taken by surprise. Didnt expect things to take such a turn. I think yours is a very plausible scenario, especially when you take into consideration:

• The multiple reports of John & Dana at the least smoking weed
• Several people claiming stolen drugs (acid being specifically mentioned) were the reason the murders happened.
• Reported past incidents of drugs (weed) being stolen & blamed on Johnny
• Don & Nancy Davis both told PCSO Johnny was difficult/out of control, got into fights at school and smoked drugs.
• Dana's pants being partially unzipped
• Johnny's wallet being found thrown behind the sofa

We know PCSO claimed no drugs were found in the victims system yet we have never seen the actual report confirming this. Police departments withhold information all time, its possible they just didn't want it out they were seriously looking into drug angles.

I still feel someone in Tina's periphery could have been responsible. However, something with the boys is up there as well. And I agree, people out there know more than they have said, especially perhaps the people close to Dana & living in the group home at the time.

It would be nice to hear more about this "confirmed ride home" of the boys' that night. Why has this person not been named, are they not credible? Why would Kathy not want to ride them home herself as she promised? I dont buy that she didn't want people to know about she & Dana. Seems people already knew about the affair, Dana & Johnny were at her place that day, why not ride them home as well, why call a family friend to do it? Why wait 35+ years to come forward with that information? Everyone knew police were looking for the person who rode the boys home so the could hopefully eliminate that scenario. I doubt PCSO would think a woman, on her own, could commit the crime, so I cant see her being that concerned of being responsible for the crime, (especially if she was bartending that night?).

I know the Meeks & Marilyn are completely unreliable but wasn't Gamberg's wife in the college computer class with this mystery woman, Sue & Marty? Wouldn't Gamberg's wife have also known or suspected Marty & Sue were having an affair at that time? There are no other reports of Marty & Sue having an affair (other than the anonymous note to the HS counselor). People from Quincy used to be on the old forums, yet this rumor never came up from anyone else?

And finally, it is too bad PCOS did not seem to follow up on the Howard lead. Or if they did we have never seen any reports of it. I'd love to hear what he had to say & find out his whereabouts that night. He may just check off all the marks - older (at least than Tina, John & Dana), supposedly knew all the victims, involved in the drug scene, suspect in a similar murder of a young girl (his own sister), left the area immediately after & behaved strangely afterward.

johnreno
New Member

Posts: 17

Excert from FBI profile/ John Douglas report Nov 12, 2020 1:41:13 GMT -6 hope likes this

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Post by johnreno on Nov 12, 2020 1:41:13 GMT -6

Thanks Hope. Yes it was difficult in the moment, and it took a while for us to feel normal again. This was the late 90s and gang apparel was the fashion for many teens and young people (with no gang affiliation). It took a good six months before the hair the back of my neck to not respond to the sight of a “gangster” in the checkout line.

The thing is, my brother and I both agree that had we been alone we would have responded differently. Neither of us wanted to be the cause of harm coming to the other. I think muggers especially are aware of this dynamic and often seek out couples and pairs. We were attacked by a group, but I think even solo attackers learn they have an edge when victims are wary of provoking harm to a loved one. Which brings me back to the profiler’s mention of control in cabin 28. On the surface it looks like chaos, but this guy is confident. He’s done it before.

On your other points: my basis for calling Dana and/or Johnny as the primary focus is largely because they were feral kids. If Sue and/or Tina were the focus, the attackers could have come by, almost literally, at any other time of the day or night and not had to contend with two able-bodied teenagers. I know this raises the question that Johnny and Dana could have been confronted elsewhere, but it puts emphasis on the issue of who gave the ride home, and why. If Johnny was suspected of stealing drugs, maybe there was motive to search his residence.

Agree with you on the toxicology report on ALL victims. Let’s see it.

As above, Tina could have been targeted, but she was also feral (unsupervised) and even a garden variety child predator could have easily absconded with her. No need for 3+1 murder mayhem.

The ride home is weird. Kathy B is reported to have a place in E Quincy, but her parents house is a 2 min walk (through the Downtown Trailer Park) from the gas station where J&D are reported to be hanging out on 4/11. The confusion and concealment here is frustrating. I don’t believe any woman was involved in this crime (much less Sheila).

Any rumor about sex between Marty and any other person outside his marriage I take with a grain of salt. Marty was obsessed with Marilyn, and ironically moralistic despite being a grifter himself.

The Howard angle. Totally agree. There are so many common points of contact, from Kathy H, to Lynette M, and (finally?) cabin 28. Do we have anyone in Yuba County who could run Kathy’s DNA, do they even have her DNA? I know it was early days, but if they have her clothes, maybe something?

Btw, Gary M is not on my list for any of these crimes, but at what point do you have to ask yourself “why am I one degree away from the stabbing deaths of 5(6) people, including my own sister?” Who are the people in common with Gary and the victims?

Just my observations. If I missed something, please correct me.

JR

Last Edit: Nov 12, 2020 16:44:13 GMT -6 by johnreno

hope
Full Member

Posts: 139

Excert from FBI profile/ John Douglas report Nov 12, 2020 5:48:08 GMT -6

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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 5:48:08 GMT -6

Nope, no corrections here, your observations seem spot on to me! Good thought regarding Yuba County & Kathy. Kmik recently pointed out sexual assault was believed to have occurred in her case and shouldn't that mean there is some evidence to check. I hope and assume so. If there is DNA evidence, I wonder if it has been uploaded into the database? That would be a great start. Did you happen to listen to the episode on Keddie Paul Holes' did on his podcast, The Murder Squad? It was nicely done and he offered Plumas County assistance. I hope they take him up on it, with all his connections the case may finally be solved.

And just to clarify my thoughts about Tina, I don't necessarily think someone came there with the intention to kidnap her. But i do wonder if perhaps she planned on meeting someone that night or called someone and somehow things got out of control. Just the way I was thinking.

And how about this.....turns out in 1981 Kathy was telling PCSO that she had heard Donna Williams was the one who rode the boys home....

Last Edit: Nov 12, 2020 5:50:34 GMT -6 by hope