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Post by aeffects on Apr 7, 2019 17:44:32 GMT -6
was the Western Pacific Railroad Yard Office at Keddie, Ca. That yard office (presently owned by Union Pacific RR) is still active to this day. 7-10 trains a day going east, west, north pass by that yard office 24/7/365 (1980), more now. In the 1970-80's there were trailers parked on the access road directly behind the Keddie *playhouse* that housed rail employees.
Who also patronized the Keddie bar at Keddie, if not for "rails and the locals?"
Ya need a quick way into Keddie, hop or take a train. Half of Plumas County working stiffs understood that and the entire PCSO knows it.
Why so little interest in the Keddie rail yard? There were more folks working for the railroad between Keddie, Ca., and Portola Ca. than ever lived in Keddie in the late 70's-early 80's.
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Post by kmik on Apr 7, 2019 19:44:40 GMT -6
You are so right and we've all gone over people living in the dorms and actual residence of Keddie but there were also the railroad workers. It appears that many were staying in Keddie through the week but actually "lived" elsewhere - would that be correct? If so anyone working on the railroad could have gone "home" after the murders and returned to Keddie on Monday.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 7, 2019 20:30:13 GMT -6
Welcome, aeffecs, and thanks!
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Post by aeffects on Apr 8, 2019 12:53:46 GMT -6
You are so right and we've all gone over people living in the dorms and actual residence of Keddie but there were also the railroad workers. It appears that many were staying in Keddie through the week but actually "lived" elsewhere - would that be correct? If so anyone working on the railroad could have gone "home" after the murders and returned to Keddie on Monday. Railroad employees in the area were thick at the time, still are today. Railroad Work Gangs from all over the country passed through Keddie (on assignment there) or heading to other locations for track maintenance or repair. It's no secret the Canyon route is one of the most expensive to maintain in the country. Crews with the numbers of 25-200 would not be unusual. Especially if the Canyon Route (Portola-Oroville, Marysville, Roseville was suffering slides, floods, etc., during the winter months (which it did). There are no weekends for the over the track railroaders life, they work when their individual *turn* becomes 1st out. However, Keddie, at the time, also had "local crews" assigned. During those days that could amount to 15-30 guys. They always had Portola to count on for additional coverage as needed. The local crews offered the best opportunity for those that lived in the Quincy, Portola, Canyon (Belden for example) and the Keddie area. Railroad train crew work is based on seniority. Those that lived locally (within 50 mile radius) usually were the ones that did the local crew work. To fill the crewing mandate, other employees from different locals volunteered/bid or were drafted to fill slots needed. I suspect that's what the temporary trailers on property at Keddie were used for. The north/south tracks Western Pacific RR out of Keddie terminated in Beiber, Ca. at the time. Burlington Northen or Santa Fe RR picked up the trains from Beiber and took them on to Klamath Falls. Today, BNSF owns that entire route Keddie to KFalls. also locally referred to as the old High-Line.
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Post by kmik on Apr 8, 2019 15:43:29 GMT -6
Sorry to ask so many questions but there's a lot about the RR workers that I really do not understand. I know that there were trailers on the property that RR workers stayed in (like Darryl Josephson who was from Paradise). The Bodenhams and Schmids actually lived in a house in Keddie but I think they were from that area. So would the trailers have only housed workers living further out? I know Darely Josephson was working with the "tunnel gang" so would that mean the entire "tunnel gang" was staying in trailers there at Keddie? I'm very interested in knowing how long these RR workers would have stayed in Keddie (a week or months). As you've said the police already know all of this but all we have is a Keddie roster with Keddie and dorm residence. I know Dishman, Josephson, and Wilkenson all lived in RR trailers and were questioned but maybe that was only because Sue had gone out with Josephson.
Anything would be appreciated since I know so little about it and thanks for helping us to understand it a little better.
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Post by aeffects on Apr 8, 2019 21:05:45 GMT -6
Sorry to ask so many questions but there's a lot about the RR workers that I really do not understand. I know that there were trailers on the property that RR workers stayed in (like Darryl Josephson who was from Paradise). The Bodenhams and Schmids actually lived in a house in Keddie but I think they were from that area. So would the trailers have only housed workers living further out? I know Darely Josephson was working with the "tunnel gang" so would that mean the entire "tunnel gang" was staying in trailers there at Keddie? I'm very interested in knowing how long these RR workers would have stayed in Keddie (a week or months). As you've said the police already know all of this but all we have is a Keddie roster with Keddie and dorm residence. I know Dishman, Josephson, and Wilkenson all lived in RR trailers and were questioned but maybe that was only because Sue had gone out with Josephson.
Anything would be appreciated since I know so little about it and thanks for helping us to understand it a little better. Under most conditions the trailers would of been for crews that worked the through trains pool in/out of Keddie yard, whether the crew came from Portola, Quincy, Oroville or Sacramento. These crews when assigned to take a train were given 90 minutes to 2 hours to get to Keddie and be prepared to leave the area on their assigned train, they have to be reasonably close for that to happen. Especially during foul weather season. Not so with railroad maintenance crews doing scheduled or emergency repair work, of which there was plenty. Usually at 0500-1500 gig. No regarding maintenance gangs, tye crews, rail crews, curves gangs, tunnel workers. These crews travelled the entire Western Pacific region, most crews work 10-14 days on, 10 days off, some lived in cars, personal trailers, rented motel rooms Where they stay is their choice, they are paid per diem and some of those crews have been together for decades... In general, employed by the railroad they make great money. A 24 year old these days with 5 years through train service, if he/she stays marked up (available for work assignment at all times), can make upwards of $110-125K/yr. (1980's: $40K/yr.). Maintenance gang workers made less. note: These crews, to complete any work in the immediate area needed locomotives to move their gear and supplies around, the use of unionized Keddie local train crews took up that slot. I think the railroad got a pass on this one (maybe deserved?), after all, they were one of the primary sources of employment in the area, one of the top 3 employers in my estimation.
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Post by kmik on Apr 8, 2019 21:52:25 GMT -6
I've got to ask several dumb questions here that have nothing to do with the murders but it's very interesting to me and I want to understand. What were the trains hauling? Was it timber or just anything that needed to be picked up when they made their stops? If local Keddie crews were moving supplies around was it by truck or train? What were the yellow trucks we see in the aerial photos used for - I know they were RR trucks but why so many? Thanks for your help
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Post by aeffects on Apr 9, 2019 8:24:56 GMT -6
I've got to ask several dumb questions here that have nothing to do with the murders but it's very interesting to me and I want to understand. What were the trains hauling? Was it timber or just anything that needed to be picked up when they made their stops? If local Keddie crews were moving supplies around was it by truck or train? What were the yellow trucks we see in the aerial photos used for - I know they were RR trucks but why so many? Thanks for your help
Quite a few trains hauled wood, from the mills of which there were many in the general area. Some trains ONLY finished, milled wood. Quite a few manifest trains (general merchandise that needed cover hence boxcars) tanker car trains, solvents, oil, alcohol. These trains, if doing pickups and drop offs usually a task for the area local train crews, picked up or dropped off train cars and/or multiples of same. They did NOT pick up/drop off items. Interesting note: Many of the railroad's shipping clients had need for empty railcars which were included in said through trains also. In most cases empties are just as important as loaded cars. And, of course, the occasional passenger train, The Zephyr in particular prior to late 60's. I'm not sure yellow trucks belonged to the WPRR. If they were, there are many uses for the same, to haul around track inspectors primarily, escort loaded trains during inclement weather, assist maintenance crews -- the objective is to keep trains moving, clear and unobstructed track allows for that. The pickup trucks (broncos) on the rails was the first level of defense. The Feather River Canyon (rail side) is a dangerous place. You have track going in 3 directions out/in of Keddie. That's a lot of track to maintain, especially in an area prone to weather, slides and floods and other complications. Repercussions of *closed* track in Keddie (any direction) could have train movement consequences thousands of miles away. The railroads had to stay on top of track maintenance, lots of pickups (broncos: equipped with mechanisms that allowed the pickup to get on and move along the tracks. Absolutely critical to the operation....
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Post by kmik on Apr 9, 2019 15:22:53 GMT -6
So the RR workers were just that - working on the actual RR tracks (not on the train)? Do you know what the Keddie Station office hours would have been? Thank you so much for the info you have provided us with on the railroad and how it worked - if you think of anything else we'd love to hear it.
You know Henry Thompson was around 19 years old, a Quincy resident, and a railroad employee (he worked with his brother in law Tom Schmid who lived behind Cabin 28). A few months after the murders Henry was living in Little Canyon, Ca, in a railroad trailer, and his roomate (who also worked on the railroad) turned him in because Henry confessed to him that he was at Cabin28 when the murders started. Henry was questioned by the police before the murders and after the police heard about this confession. Henry told the police he was just kidding.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 9, 2019 17:46:45 GMT -6
Let me butt in with a rude question: Would [some] of the track maintenance crews be prone to partying on weekend nights?
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Post by aeffects on Apr 10, 2019 11:10:11 GMT -6
Let me butt in with a rude question: Would [some] of the track maintenance crews be prone to partying on weekend nights? the younger of the crews, yes, the older from experience, not so much. Problem drinkers and the alcoholic all bets are off. 24/7 operation, there are no "weekends," only on-duty/off-duty.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 10, 2019 12:00:39 GMT -6
Thanks! I know from railroader (some of them fourth generation) friends of mine that train crews (engineers, conductors, etc) are far less likely to use drugs, because the union tends to weed those guys out and the other crewmen don't like having their lives endangered. But, if off-duty track maintenance guys wanted to blow some of that overtime on coke, then THAT might explain why someone like Chuck and Henry would go all the way to Livermore to get some coke and bring it back to Keddie. No one else in Keddie could afford coke.
And there was a young woman who had recently moved TO Keddie FROM Livermore. Why on God's green earth would she do that?
........mmmmmaybe to make some money off a crew lonely, bored, well-paid working men?
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Post by aeffects on Apr 10, 2019 13:58:36 GMT -6
Thanks! I know from railroader (some of them fourth generation) friends of mine that train crews (engineers, conductors, etc) are far less likely to use drugs, because the union tends to weed those guys out and the other crewmen don't like having their lives endangered. But, if off-duty track maintenance guys wanted to blow some of that overtime on coke, then THAT might explain why someone like Chuck and Henry would go all the way to Livermore to get some coke and bring it back to Keddie. No one else in Keddie could afford coke. And there was a young woman who had recently moved TO Keddie FROM Livermore. Why on God's green earth would she do that? ........mmmmmaybe to make some money off a crew lonely, bored, well-paid working men? Yes they are less likely to use drugs, but king alcohol looms large, still does and continues to be a major problem... It puzzles me some that Livermore comes up, why? Oroville, Sac, Reno are lot closer for street buys, Portola and Quincy much closer and they weren't pauper Ville either. Local mining and logging were profitable concerns, plus Plumas County had a dark side re drug manufacturing and transportation of same. West Coast motorcycle gangs were NOT infrequent visitors to the county, if only visible on weekends. And it was known you were better off staying on "paved" roads when the sun went down... Hell, so were some of the small communities down through the Canyon area. The 70's and 80's were interesting times. The railroad during those days flew pretty high. Railroad seniority ruled the roost. Anyway, maybe the young lady was looking for seasonal work at a local resort? Maybe applying for college at FRC? There was a 'dorm room' on the Keddie Resort property... Perhaps one girl of a string of girls being run out of the area? That building still stands today, unoccupied of course.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 10, 2019 14:27:33 GMT -6
Well, no, this particular young lady--student or not--was often up to no good. And Chuck and Henry had a particular source (another young woman) in Livermore whom they visited that weekend. Other sources in Quincy also indicated that coke and heroin were coming in from Livermore. Nobody who lived in Keddie really had that kind of money. But Henry and his brother-in-law both worked as railroad maintenance, and Chuck worked for the Forest Service. That Camp 18 location where Tina was found was a spot where both of them had worked. Henry, when the railroad tore up the rails and turned it into a regular road, and Chuck, who planted the new trees (you can still see them on Google Earth) after the logging company had cleared the area.
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Post by aeffects on Apr 10, 2019 16:13:34 GMT -6
Well, no, this particular young lady--student or not--was often up to no good. And Chuck and Henry had a particular source (another young woman) in Livermore whom they visited that weekend. Other sources in Quincy also indicated that coke and heroin were coming in from Livermore. Nobody who lived in Keddie really had that kind of money. But Henry and his brother-in-law both worked as railroad maintenance, and Chuck worked for the Forest Service. That Camp 18 location where Tina was found was a spot where both of them had worked. Henry, when the railroad tore up the rails and turned it into a regular road, and Chuck, who planted the new trees (you can still see them on Google Earth) after the logging company had cleared the area. Interesting, I've heard scuttlebutt concerning drugs coming *into* the county after 2000, but many more rumors from old-timers concerning the manufacturing of, or drugs leaving, or, transiting Plumas County during the 1970-80-90's. I just don't see a market for bringing drugs into the area. Become a source for Keddie-Quincy-Portola? Where everyone knew everyone else. Less than 25,000 countywide population in the early 80's. Camp 18 location, I'm not familiar with. I know of the general area. Off of Quincy-LaPorte Road? You say there was at one time rail tracks there? For what, a small gauge railroad? The bigger railroads that I'm familiar with did not have tracks in that area. Marysville/Oroville (north/south) yes? Most small gauge railroads had nothing to do with the regular *Roads*, UP/WP/SP. Most of those logging short-lines were owned by mills or logging companies.
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