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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 16, 2016 20:14:39 GMT -6
Thanks. 9 pages? This better be good.
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Post by sierra on Dec 25, 2016 16:29:09 GMT -6
Only the names Bill White and (probably) Henry Fong (or maybe Archie White.) Here's the deal about the story in the affidavit: 1.All of the witnesses, Bill White, Archie and Mrs White, and Fong, ALL mention Bill White arriving at Rancho Monticello. NONE of them mention Dennis Land arriving there. 2. According the radio dispatcher's log, Dennis Land radioed in that he was going "10-7" at 5:13 pm. The precise moment Bryan and Cecelia drove over the Pope Creek bridge heading south. He never checked in "10-8." But he DID copy the dispatch to go to Rancho Monticello and talk to a complainant there. 3. No one mentions him showing up, but he did radio in that he arrived there and was in contact with complainant. So what? 4. So, he drove to the scene of the crime by using the locked (in those days) gate leading to the dirt access road along the top of the levee, where he found Bryan, the gate that was SOUTH of where Bryan parked his car. IF he drove from Rancho Monticello to that gate, then how did he miss seeing Bryan's car? According to Collins's report, no one knew where Bryan's car was until he and Ray Land found it. 5. According to the radio log, Dennis checked out "10-7" to check out the "dock." Collins reported that Dennis proceeded to Rancho Monticello from Park HQ, so that would indicate that Dennis told the radio dispatcher he was checking the dock outside Park HQ. No big deal. Except, of course, his failure to notice the killer's car. Possible? Sure. But according to the footprints, the killer must have parked on the dirt road along the top of the levee. In those days, access to that road was blocked by locked gates. The ones Dennis had the keys to. Okay, so he was goofing off or taking a nap on the dock at Park HQ. So, what? So, why did he lie about it in his affidavit? In other words, this affidavit is contradicted by the other witnesses, AND by the radio log. That's a lot. It's blatantly obvious WHY he was asked to swear out a formal statement. It's obvious why he lied. But WHEN was he asked to do it? And why is that a SECRET? According to the radio log, he left the Pope Creek bridge moments after Bryan and Cecelia drove by him. And he was out of radio contact until the dispatch went out at 6:55. In other words, he followed them, at least for a while, even if coincidentally. Hell, maybe he thought Bryan was hot and was just window shopping and then drove down to the levee road to rub one off. Who knows? But it looked, and looks, damned suspicious. And then he lies about it in his affidavit. More suspicious. And to the extent that Bryan and Cecelia could give a description, something over 6 feet, 200ish pounds, not blubbery fat, with dark brown wavy hair, that fits Denny to a T. Or Z, if you prefer. And Bryan mentioned two things about the assailant in interviews that also ring the Dennis Land bell. Does it mean he was guilty? Maybe not. But "Zodiac" was in a mad rush to give Dennis an alibi mere days after he was questioned under oath. The same way he was in a mad rush to give Donald You Know Who an alibi for the Ferrin murder. I'm not trying to lynch Dennnis Land for the murder of Cecelia Shepard (he was suspected in other murders, as well, for damned good reasons, but those documents have not stumbled their way into the public domain. Is there enough to convict him of any murder? Nope.) I'm just saying, he was a very, very good suspect. Like all the REAL suspects in these murders, Graysmith pretends he never heard of him. But it sure seems like "Zodiac" heard of him. And he's another suspect with a long association with Snook. First of all thank you for having this website. Some of the things you have found mimic what I have found. 1) Zodiac's handwriting looks like it was done upside down - especially the letters "d"/"p". 2) A 380 may have been used in the Stine killing, but I could not find the weight of the bullet in the SFPD records, so I can not confirm whether it was a 9mm Luger (9mm Parabellum; 9x19) or a 380ACP (9mm Short; 9mm Kurtz). 3) It looks like more than one person was/is involved with the murders and writings. 4) Graysmith is a compulsive self centered liar, and might somehow be involvedwith Zodiac. I have not read your books yet. I do not have a Kindle, so I can't download the books. I am not trying to knock down your theory. I am just pointing out what I think are cracks, holes, or weak spots. I do not care who solves this case. I just wish someone would solve it, and whoever does solve it should get the credit for it. I couldn't find Rancho Monticello on the Google maps website. I figure it is near the Monticello Dam or at least at the South(ish) end of the lake. You state (in the quote) above that Dennis Land radioed that he was going 10-7 about the same time when Bryan and Cecilia drove over the Pope Creek Bridge. I looked on the map and the bridge is not identified, but I figure it is the bridge near Pope Canyon Road which is north of the attack site. If Land followed Bryan's Karmann Ghia (VW), or was at least behind him, from Pope Creek bridge along Knoxville Road, he would have (should have) seen Bryan pull over on the shoulder of the road. This is where I believe the Karmann Ghia was parked on Knoxville Road (it is right above where the attack took place): Site of vehicle at LBIf Monticello Ranch and the gate to the levee were south of the attack site, then how could Land have seen Bryan's car which was above the attack site on Knoxville Road (north of the gate and Rancho Monticello)? You state Land was out of radio contact from 5:13 to 6:55, but you also say he copied the dispatch to go to Rancho Monticello, so he wasn't completely out of contact. Maybe this is evidence that he was closer to the park headquarters than he claimed. The clarity of his transmission would give some indication as to how far away he was from the radio transceiver or park headquarters. I do not know. Unfortunately we can't go back and check the clarity of his transmission. I think I read in another part of this forum that Land was at park headquarters with another person (park ranger), and that person went on the fisherman on his boat to where he heard Bryan yell for help while Land drove there. What do you mean by "... rub one off."? Do you mean "wack his pud", "spank his monkey", "jerk his gherkin"? There is something I have noticed about this (Zodiac) case. There are a lot of dirty and/or incompetent police, lying reporters/journalists, homosexuals, drugs, and pedophiles involved. .
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 26, 2016 5:58:39 GMT -6
Well, the answers to your questions are in the books, and I'm not retyping them here. In summary, the shell casing found inStines cab was definitely short, and Land told two very different stories. What's odd about his "10-7" is that he never checked back in "10-8," but was able to hear the dispatch anyway. That COULD be because his radio could receive farther than it could transit—but NOT if he was where he SAID he was going to. Also, he was able to call in to request an ambulance, so his lack of a 10-8 is just one more thing that makes him look very suspicious. And, one of the reasons he seems to have changed his story is to try and explain how he missed seeing Bryan's car.
You have some kind of device capable of posting on this website, you can get a free kindle app for it ;-)
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smithy
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by smithy on Feb 18, 2017 14:36:14 GMT -6
"Pop" and Mr Thomas G. Horan Esq - nope, they ain't filled, those "characteristic" colons on the door and on the (later) letter. They're open. You need to find the right image of the car door on line to see it, but see it you can.
I've posted elsewhere about the text books of the time from which (undoubtedly!) Hal Snook later gave lessons on this stuff - he definitely read them - and they have wonderful references to "How people try to discise (just kidding) their handwriting by assuming other characteristics, such as the way teenage girls draw circular periods.." (I'm paraphrasing.)
Seemed important at the time of posting, that colonic fact, so since it did I've popped back in to defend it.
Meantime, Hal Snook was a murderer. Just thought I'd float that out there for ya. Pip pip!
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Post by Admin Horan on Feb 19, 2017 10:56:28 GMT -6
Smithy: I'll say it one more time: The supposed similarity between the two open circles instead of dots in the colon on the Hartnell car door PROVES WHAT, exactly? The first letter, INCLUDING THE OPEN CIRCLE PERIOD, had been printed on the front page of the Vallejo Times-Herald. So, the copycat at LB COULD have copied THAT, too. What the fuck is a colon if not two periods? If someone were going to imitate the handwriting of ANY person who made his periods as little circles instead of dots, WHY WOULD THAT FORGER MAKE HIS COLONS ANY DIFFERENTLY?
The REST of the graffito is not a very good match for the letters.
Yeah, I'd LOVE to prove Snook "was" the so-called "Zodiac Killer." I've tried and tried and tried. THAT book would sell a million copies. But I'm stuck with the boring old truth--the letters were a hoax.
I have begged and begged and begged people all over the world to PROVE "me" wrong about the letters being a hoax. No luck.
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smithy
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by smithy on Feb 21, 2017 11:01:55 GMT -6
Wotcher Mr H., still got the old fire going? Good! It annoys me that Bryan said the guy in the hood had wavy brown hair. Dark. SUCH a bore.
Anything new? I'm stuck on the cartoon references in another letter, myself. "by knife".
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Post by Admin Horan on Feb 23, 2017 7:40:14 GMT -6
Well, Dennis Land had dark, wavy hair.
Someone somewhere found a comic book (series) with a cowboy hero that had cover art that seems to have inspired the acrostic (or whatever you call it). I'm convinced it's the real inspiration, FWIW.
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smithy
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by smithy on Feb 23, 2017 16:34:44 GMT -6
Well, Dennis Land had dark, wavy hair. Someone somewhere found a comic book (series) with a cowboy hero that had cover art that seems to have inspired the acrostic (or whatever you call it). I'm convinced it's the real inspiration, FWIW. Yep. Me too. That was Tahoe and a Tom Whats-his-name comic. Good find. Yes, it's in the acrostic, a very un-Snook thing it is too, that acrostic - and by knifes on the door too of course. Is Mr Snook another cartoonist? I hadn't heard. But then he didn't write on the door, you sez. I edited this since I initially managed to confuse the names Horan and Snook somehow. Very odd.
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Post by dobbson on May 9, 2017 20:09:02 GMT -6
..."And, of course, if there is no "Zodiac Killer," these guys are out of business"...That's the granddaddy of all "bingos". The never spoken truth underlying fanatical adherence to Zodiac orthodoxy.
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Post by zodiacclues123 on May 29, 2017 1:48:27 GMT -6
Hi everyone I got three new clews for you before the cipher begins. The 'Button Letter' Phillips map that is actually a template In 'The Button Letter' 'The', 'Map', 'You', 'Fall' are all capitalized to refer to the Phillips 66 'map drop' in my new Border and Map Fold Clues of The Phillips '66. The Zodiac symbol can be interchangeable on both borders and top and bottom of the fold. (I've only used the top fold for now)Which give us 3 of 4 hits in a State Park and a mile away by Daly City and Colma in the other hit. In The My Name Is Cipher the Killer Has the 13 character cipher Broken Into A 'V' and line up the middle 8 on the exact center of the cipher between the hash marks and 4 letters or characters both match up the 'N' and the 'F' to start. Multiple matches. New video updated sequences. Plus As Mike Cole at ZodiacCiphers said "When the 408 cipher was decoded it revealed that Zodiac would not give his name, but then again, he never promised to, only his identity." Maybe the Zodiac symbol/Bullseye I found is all he was going to give in the 340, idk I'm still going to learn ciphering/codebreaking though. Be sure to watch part 1- I'll update as I go and I gotta learn how to cipher. Take care, we'll find this guy for the victims families. Bye. .My new clues are pointing to someone like the Land Brothers and I think its a lot bigger than them. napavalleyregister.com/news/loca ... 002e0.html napavalleyregister.com/news/loca ... 963f4.html napavalleyregister.com/news/die- ... 90094.html Lots of corruption in Napa over the years and would you know where the Bucky Stewart Ranch is? Guess he boarded Napa Police there. Wonder what Dennis and Raymond Land's parents occupation? I bet they lost a lot of money when Lake Berryessa Dam was finished in 1953. The best soil in America some say. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Berryessa. Ken Narlow said He also had the cooperation of the three sheriffs in office during the years of his involvement. Earl Randol, Bucky Stewart and Gary Simpson all "gave me full rein until the day I retired in 1987." Maybe they all worked in tandem or in some way and isn't it convenient of Pat Stanley, "About an hour after the attack, the Napa Police Department received a call from a man claiming responsibility for the stabbing. Pat Stanley, then KVON's news director, was making his early morning rounds and discovered a phone off the hook near Mike Black's car wash on Main Street and alerted authorities." I'll update after. Thank you. I got new clues on my youtube channel. I'll be updating youtube soon. www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEm08dfxGAjiyNHRVULH54HG62jo_iuIM. LoveMeSomeKnowledge_
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Post by lassie on Jul 16, 2017 23:57:27 GMT -6
Image of Ray Land
Any pictures to be fond of Dennis Land? Did he have a limp?
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Post by Ghost of Smithy on Jul 17, 2017 2:08:29 GMT -6
Listening to the on-line debate, it doesn't sound to me as if there's much debating, but..! Nice for me to get a mention - even if there's a small distinction which needs making: (Oh! Say! "Riverside police consider that case closed..."... They do?!) No - "My" bit; people think I claim Hal Snook wrote on the door........? Well, maybe! 1) I can't be sure on the basis of one public-domain example that Hal Snook wrote the letters. Yes, it looks like he did. No, I'm not a QDE (ha ha!) - and I would like to see more examples of his stuff. 2) I think I would and could reasonably claim that the person who wrote at least the first few letters (and yes, later ones too) wrote on that door, too. (If we could prove that Hal Snook wrote it (or the letters), great.) 3) You think the assailant wrote on the door and we don't agree on that, nope. BECAUSE that nice round (circular) colon is a lovely characteristic which appeared on the door and later in a letter NOT published at the time - so UNLESS the guy used that particular character on the door and then subsequently the letter writer COPIED that technique from the door....... 4) The other thing I like, is that the "round dot" thing is something written about in all the textbooks of the time. So when you say "EVERYTHING else a copycat would need" was available for Berryessa - that's not so. NO circular colon or period had been printed.... Hello? Hello?! Hello! Regards, aye aye. Actually, the characteristic filled periods on the door did have clear precident: the phrase "S.F. Chronicle" That you see in the first letter Err... What? The "characteristic filled periods?" ... naaaaa, I think I was yabbering about characteristic open circle colons. All a bit late now, mind you. And not that important. Toodles!
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Post by GOLDEN on Sept 23, 2017 12:08:21 GMT -6
It's amazing how people will listen to stories about who the Zodiac killer was and people will go all out to investigate these suspects. The end results all the same NOT THE ZODIAC KILLER. But when a person submits the real Zodiac killer to the police they ignore it..lol... What throws this case off is the Zodiacs age and his ranking in life being a wealthy Merchant Marine. A Captain. A very smart Captain that married Darleen Ferrin in 1966/1965. Sent her gifts from Mexico. Ferrin was pregnet from this man. Had his baby did not want it. Project Artichoke has everything to do with how Ferrin got pregnet- She hid it well she had to she was only 16 years old. Things like this in the 1960's were swept under the rug. Esp when the Zodiac/the Father was many years older and a high ranking individual in society. After having the baby girl Ferrin did not want the child esp seeing what the baby's Father was really like! Ferrin knew too much he had to kill her. The Zodiac killer could of killed the infant after Ferrin gave the baby to him but HE didn't. So some where in the man is a heart or I wouldn't be alive right now. Project artichoke has EVERYTHING to do with this, EVERYTHING!! Even if DNA matched the Zodiac killers and shoved in your face you still would ignore it and carry on with your theories that go no where. People you need to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX then maybe just maybe you'll get some where with this. ~Peace out~
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Post by GOLDEN on Sept 23, 2017 14:13:14 GMT -6
It's amazing how people will listen to stories about who the Zodiac killer was and people will go all out to investigate these suspects. The end results all the same NOT THE ZODIAC KILLER. But when a person submits the real Zodiac killer to the police they ignore it..lol... What throws this case off is the Zodiacs age and his ranking in life being a wealthy Merchant Marine. A Captain. A very smart Captain that married Darleen Ferrin in 1966/1965. Sent her gifts from Mexico. Ferrin was pregnet from this man. Had his baby did not want it. Project Artichoke has everything to do with how Ferrin got pregnet- She hid it well she had to she was only 16 years old. Things like this in the 1960's were swept under the rug. Esp when the Zodiac/the Father was many years older and a high ranking individual in society. After having the baby girl Ferrin did not want the child esp seeing what the baby's Father was really like! Ferrin knew too much he had to kill her. The Zodiac killer could of killed the infant after Ferrin gave the baby to him but HE didn't. So some where in the man is a heart or I wouldn't be alive right now. Project artichoke has EVERYTHING to do with this, EVERYTHING!! Even if DNA matched the Zodiac killers and shoved in your face you still would ignore it and carry on with your theories that go no where. People you need to THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX then maybe just maybe you'll get some where with this. ~Peace out~
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Post by Concerned Citizen on Oct 5, 2017 12:20:41 GMT -6
October 5, 2017 Open Memo to Law Enforcement:
WHEREAS, we understand official law enforcement can and should acquire potential evidence re a cold case by tapping the knowledge of civilian investigators;
WHEREAS, the Zodiac killer case amateur community is fraught with POI/suspect biases, admin/mod/member collusion and partisan machinations;
WHEREAS, basic online searches evidence the motives of some website administrators to exploit, ridicule, and/or ban materials not in line with their own pet theories;
Now, THEREFORE, should the Vallejo Police Department, or any other for that matter be permitting civilian, ____________ (with or without gloves!) to have access to boxes of public correspondence (crime tips) sent in good faith and confidence, addressed to said law enforcement department?
What say ye? VPD? Internal Affairs? Attorney General? FBI?
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