|
Post by Paul_Averly on Apr 14, 2015 15:21:23 GMT -6
Horan, I have already say what i need to right at this link-- www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=1851&start=40#p22876You ramble on and with nothing but pure speculation , you & Graysmith are liars but I now the truth cause I got it straight from the whorses mouth! me and Zamantha have real lunches with Bob Tarbox in Las Vegas and over drinks we learn evidence directly from him about meeting merchant marine Zodiac. I know what I am talking about. I can prove every buffet special and boorbon i have shared with Tarbox if any one wants to challenge me. just beleive me now this is one theory thats not staying in Vegas! Dont try to return to Morfs zodiackillersite because he and Moderator Zam* - my significunt other- will support everything I say. I will not waste any more time with you becuse I know what Tarbox tells me. and he is a lawyer!
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Apr 15, 2015 9:14:35 GMT -6
Shit for Brains! Where you been hiding yourself, buddy! You're just in time to preorder copies of the two honest to god, long promised, finally done, fully documented, etc, etc, etc books, The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax of 1986 (exposing Graysmith's entire fraud) and the final version of The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax of 1969. I am revising the final drafts now, and posting the threads on this website that will serve as the "footnotes" for the books. They will be available for preorder on Amazon right around Mother's Day.
|
|
|
Post by Sobie on Apr 16, 2015 13:33:42 GMT -6
Horan, don't worry about Paul_Averly. He's quite the embarrassment to us over on ZKS. Of course, in addition to groupthink nepotism, he factors into a noise ratio and diversion that keep moderators shielding him; hence, I'd rather not identify myself for fear of Morf's excommunication.
The only good thing that can be said for Paul_Averly is that he can pick a screen name as if Zodiac killer research is still conducted in DOS 2.0 -- You never know when doomsday will set technology and this case back! LOL!
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Apr 17, 2015 19:43:09 GMT -6
Sobie:
Worried??? Shit For Brains is one of my best bird dogs, so far as driving traffic to my site. Not to mention feeding me straight lines.
Thanks for commenting!
|
|
nero
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by nero on May 5, 2015 7:08:34 GMT -6
New here and been absorbing the stuff you've written around the forum (as well as the videos on Youtube). Very much appreciate all the material you've put up. I have seen some comments (on this thread I think) that the information is too scattered, and not linear enough, but the whole idea of a forum is to compartmentalise, and I am sure the presentation in your books is much more direct (I will be looking you up on my Kindle later).
Your theory resonates with me because there have always been discrepancies/facts which didn't seem to mesh well. It might seem like a small thing but what really jolted me was watching that 'This is the Zodiac speaking' documentary and seeing how Fouke and Pellisseti had different recall. Fouke describing the guy with a crew cut he saw, and that he told Pelissetti 'oh __ that was the suspect'. But Pelissetti literally says 'He did not mention to me that he had seen anybody at that point or had stopped anybody'. Surely if Fouke had said that, and been certain he saw him (thus prompting their next moves), then Pelissetti would remember that? Very strange discrepancy. Either one guy has a bad memory, or it's a lie. He also later mentions knowing the address the man had been approaching and 'thought he had written it in the scratch'. I don't know whether that address has ever been disclosed but I wouldn't be surprised to find it was a place/safe house well known to the police.
Is it possible the original report of a 'negro' was related to a known suspect for the taxicab crimes of the time? Perhaps the killing of Stine was accidental (apart from anything, this would explain why the car was parked as it was, since it was not intended).
Almost every account of the Ferrin/Mageau case tries to sell the fact that it seemed personally motivated. That's been used to finger many people, but more importantly it sets it apart from the others. It immediately made me think of the irony of Graysmith and the Agatha Christie ABC book which Allen had, in which a murder is masked by being made to look random amidst many others. I think it was that old Geraldo show which highlighted the possibility of it involving narcotics or a gang. It's so easy to take the wrong path and disappear down the wrong rabbit hole.
There's a guy floating around who purports Edward Edwards wrote the last 'unconfirmed' Zodiac letters, including the christmas card. I find the theory putting him forward for any part of this is very flimsy (the guy also claims he was responsible for the Black Dahlia, JonBenet Ramsey, the West Memphis killings etc, basically anything that might sell a book), but the fact a psychopath like him could/would later try to mimic an earlier hoax almost highlights how easy it is to do.
I have seen you mention Avery as being part of things, and I immediately went back to the deliberate 'Averly' mispelling. Maybe it's not 'Averly', but 'AverIy' or 'I Avery'. Probably not, but these things pop into my mind!
One thing I'd ask you is how Riverside fits in, since Graysmith wasn't around yet at the time? What was the motivation for the Bates letters?
Sorry if this first post is a bit 'scattershot'!
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on May 6, 2015 8:00:06 GMT -6
Nero: Thanks for commenting! And your timing is perfect—yes, indeed, up until now this website, the old blog, and my interviews on radio and TV have been rather "scattershot." That's for two reasons: 1. I got more publicity than I was ready for, and 2. Thanks to all of this publicity, website, blog, etc, more pages, and more original newspaper clippings, have come to light. The good news: The loooooooooooong promised (like I said, I was not intending to publicize this before now anyway) book is FINISHED. In fact, it's two books. Thanks to the feedback I got from listeners and readers, I was able to break this material down into two books—one, a book debunking Graysmith's original fraud of a book, and the other, an explication of the ORIGINAL Zodiac letters hoax. Since most people are familiar with Gryasmith's book and every movie and documentary that has been based on it, the first step toward explaining my discoveries is to throughly debunk that trash once and for all. And one of the biggest lies he tells in that book is the claim that the Zodiac letters were "authenticated" by police. Why did he lie about that? Because he saw for himself that the letters were an OBVIOUS hoax. The second book not only explains this, but also proves WHO created the hoax in the first place. The first book is available for pre-order now tinyurl.com/GZKH1986BookThe second book is the "real" final finished etc version of this book www.amazon.com/Great-Zodiac-Killer-Hoax-1969-ebook/dp/B008NCUCPUIf you already bought a copy of this book, or if you buy it now, you will receive an email from Amazon on or about May 27 alerting you to download the EXTENSIVELY updated version FOR FREE. If you already bought a copy, you will NOT have to pay for the new version. At least, that's what Amazon promised me. If anyone has trouble with that when the day comes, PLEASE LET ME KNOW HERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Both books will be "live" on Amazon on or before May 27. Thanks EVERYONE for your patience, and thanks Nero for your comment! I believe the books ($2.99 each) will answer your questions. Inside the books themselves, each "footnote" is a link to a thread on this website where all can discuss each piece of evidence and claim mentioned in the books. This website will always be FREE. Thanks again! Tom
|
|
nero
New Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by nero on May 8, 2015 9:29:38 GMT -6
Thanks, I've ordered both and already read the first (or the second as it were) as well as hearing both your Generation Why podcasts. I got through it quickly and thanks to this board I was able to piece together a lot of the redacted portions. I guess this is your biggest obstacle, whether or not you can say things. Are you tempted to use a pseudonym in print (such as red phantom) like Smith Jr. had to at first?
Is the first paragraph (the 'literary theory' disclaimer) there for legal necessity or otherwise..? It seems an odd statement when you use real names, places and cases but say its all coincidental! I don't say this in a barbed way, just curious.
I also had a suggestion, since you mentioned here and on Youtube that this has been expanded on thanks to the feedback you've gotten online, and you are aiming for a documentary. Have you considered crowd sourcing for one? It'd be a great grass-roots way to get the theory out and about. Very organic, great launching pad, could very well help the theory go viral. And in a more cynical sense, a great way to get traffic.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on May 8, 2015 10:38:20 GMT -6
Nero:
1. Good. The main purpose of writing these books and websites is to encourage people to read this stuff for themselves.
2. The old edition of GZKH of 1969 is woefully out of date. The new version, which you can download in a few days as soon as it's uploaded, is up to date and completely accurate, thanks to all the feedack and new files/clippings that have become available since it went on sale in 2012.
3. Yes, the disclaimer is there for legal reasons. But so far as I know, all three books are 100 percent true and accurate, pending the discovery of any more files.
4. Yup, I'm thinking of making a pitch video for Kickstarter, etc. I've already had a couple of offers of serious money to pay for things like expert opinions from handwriting experts, etc.
5. Hang in there. The finished edition of GZKH of 1969 (exposing the original letters as a hoax, and who wrote them) will be live in a few days. The third book, GZKH of 1986, is finished and available for preorder now. That book thoroughly debunks Graysmith and lays out the case for accusing him of writing the second "wave" of Zodiac letters himself. It will go live on or before May 27 (I don't know if Amazon will let me move up the release date, or not. I'll try to have both books live on the same day.
6. The first book, The Myth of Zodiac, is a more "scholarly" book on the cultural and literary roots and impact of the Zodiac letters. The other two books are a footnote in that book. That's why I had to write two more books.
Thanks, again!
|
|
|
Post by Miss Marple on Aug 26, 2015 14:13:30 GMT -6
Hi Mr. Horan, I like how you think.
I have been reading and wondering about the Zodiac killer for a long time. I certainly remember when they were happening. And I really have dropped the ball this last decade or so. I recently retired and started reading up again and trying to catch up with new ideas and findings.
I must say one reason I more or less lost interest was because I never felt it was the work of one person, one killer. But at the very least 3 different people. The modus operandi of the murders varied way too much. I thought the letters were really nonsense and the work of different authors.
I think for the most part the ciphers are just a bunch of gibberish and not meant to be decoded.
Well anyway, just wanted you to know that somebody else is listening too.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Aug 26, 2015 17:37:16 GMT -6
Smithy:
What's your question? No other public domain samples of Snook's handprinting that I know of, besides the evidence tags that can be sort of seen in some photos.
|
|
|
Post by sneakypete on Dec 26, 2015 21:19:24 GMT -6
"If anyone besides the assailant wrote that message on Bryan's car door, it had to be Ray Land. Did HE have a motive to cover up for his brother? Sure. The ONLY thing that links LB to "Zodiac" is that graffito. NOTHING ELSE. "Zodiac" NEVER mentioned LB in ANY LETTER, ever. And either the assailant wrote it, or his brother did. Even if Dennis didn't attack Bryan and Cecelia, his brother might have THOUGHT he did. Townsend and/or Johnson definitely thought he did. Neither the Kanes murder nor any other possible Land victim bore ANY "Zodiac" graffiti, so if Dennis Land killed Cecelia Shepard, it's more likely his brother wrote that graffito on Bryan's car door. Remember, the handwriting on that graffito is not much better of a match to "Zodiac" than Earl Van Best, Jr's wedding chaplain.
Let's not forget Dave Collins. Neither Ray nor Dennis EVER gave an interview—Collins has done every one. And he has lied in every one of them. If Dennis Land didn't murder Cecelia Shepard, why would COLLINS cover for him and Ray?"
I've not been able to read all of the ZK LB docs on Flickr and keep getting sidetracked reading all of the comments so I'll just post my devil's advocate thought(s) now, before I forget them. IF Dennis Land was the LB assailant, he certainly came very well prepared with a cover story and costume in case Hartnell or Shepard survived. Also had luck on his side not being recognized by Hartnell while they both waited for the ambulance. And, what did he do with the costume? Probably put in a trash can. And at some point, someone, maybe Snook, completed the conspiracy by writing on the car door.
Extremely serendipitous.
|
|
smithy
Junior Member
Posts: 51
|
Post by smithy on Dec 27, 2015 7:02:27 GMT -6
Smithy: What's your question? No other public domain samples of Snook's handprinting that I know of, besides the evidence tags that can be sort of seen in some photos.
Mr H., I had a question? Did I?
It's a real pity that there aren't other public domain samples of Mr Snook's handwriting, ain't it? The evidence tags are quite clear though. The "b's" and the "d's" are quite clear and distinctive - the same characters you've pointed out are rotated in some of the letters. The "7's" are worth a look, too. If further proof's needed, that is, of who wrote those letters. (It ain't.) Happy Christmass!
|
|
Little Lord Fauntleroy
Guest
|
Post by Little Lord Fauntleroy on Dec 27, 2015 23:00:58 GMT -6
Just saw this quote on Tom's board [Moderator's Note: He means Tom Voigt; not Tom Horan (me)] and eggnog shot out of me nose onto my red corduroy trousers! Funny fing is – I weren't even drinkin' eggnog! You notice this past year how more and more theories from the big box store Zodiac sites are sounding like this: Hey Smithy, you back to 'ammer some sense into 'em, mate? L'chaim / Sláinte
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Dec 28, 2015 15:57:04 GMT -6
Hi Mr. Horan, I like how you think. I have been reading and wondering about the Zodiac killer for a long time. I certainly remember when they were happening. And I really have dropped the ball this last decade or so. I recently retired and started reading up again and trying to catch up with new ideas and findings. I must say one reason I more or less lost interest was because I never felt it was the work of one person, one killer. But at the very least 3 different people. The modus operandi of the murders varied way too much. I thought the letters were really nonsense and the work of different authors. I think for the most part the ciphers are just a bunch of gibberish and not meant to be decoded. Well anyway, just wanted you to know that somebody else is listening too. Miss Marple: Thanks very much! I'm terribly sorry it took so long to notice that you had posted a comment on this thread. Happy New Year!
|
|
|
Post by Annie A. on Jan 17, 2016 11:55:55 GMT -6
Mr. Horan, permit me, please, to offer some revelations on the state of affairs within the Zodiac Killer amateur community… I will require no more than this single post: I anticipate that 2016 will be an annus mirabilis for you as far as continuing, “The Great Zodiac Killer Hoax” class with fewer distractions for your students. Why? Curious spectators should peek no farther than Voigt’s site, before it completely implodes. There once was a time when Tom V. had a designated thread for Sandy Betts to broadcast her refracted (think light hitting crumpled tinfoil) views. These days she is running rampant on just about every topic: regaling us with how The Zodiac Killer placed his Lake Berryessa “paper sack” costume into the back seat of her car; how he left for her some clothesline like that used to restrain victims; how he unwittingly placed his fingerprints on a Bloody Mary glass handed to Betts (I kid you not!); how he telephoned her; how he stalked her. . . . So what is the primary reason why Voigt has permitted his site & credibility to sink so low? Dosh, baby! Tom V. relies on these pharmaceutically enhanced regulars, who consist of reminiscing warped old fogeys with nothing better to do than commiserate around soap “stories” (and Bloody Mary glasses). Tom V. knows they’re good for the odd biannual $15 or $20 dollars. Can I be the only one who questions why every other week his website assails——me along with those “tens of millions” of other visitors——with so many intrusive, annoying ads – some with grating audio, which even Sandy Betts presently gripes about. (And if Sandy’s hearing things…). So where the hell IS all of our donor baksheesh going? Now, did everyone see Morford’s recent post header linking to “Bigfoot & Sasquatch domains for sale”? (I kid you not!) Those of you familiar with the community are thinking, wait a mo! Isn’t Tom V. the one searching for Sasquatch, when he’s not fitting Blaine “Goldcatcher” with a Warhol wig? Yep. He sold these domains together with zodiackiller(.)net and plenty of other shrunken head trinkets to Sugar Daddy Morf. (cf. synonyms for such relations used in "Orange Is the New Black.") That is why Tom V. has so much revenue with which to lavish it upon his loyal members in the form of “Real World Zodiac with Sandy Betts” and plenty of Intel Core i7 processor-retarding pop-ups. That is why for most of 2015, Morford posted like a BDSM dominatrix on Voigt’s site – as if he owned both it AND Voigt! You see, these clowns believe that they can continue to deny their folie à deux partnership. My, my, my – those “Sullivan” and “Gaikowski” topics have certainly come to a screeching halt, have they not? Wink wink Morford and Voigt, “go at throttle up…” Yes, talk about up in smoke: morfdomains.blogspot.com/2015/03/cannabis-marijuana-hemp-related-domains.html
|
|