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Post by karis on Mar 2, 2018 20:52:46 GMT -6
This statement comes from another forum:
May 7, 2017: It's been confirmed: Thomas did, indeed, live in 28 JUST PRIOR to the Sharps.
Now, I am not sure what this has to do with these horrible murders but I suspect it is a means to tie, in the minds of many, Doug and Marty. This was a small town and I don't find it suspicious that they may have known one another.
This information comes from the Feather River Bulletin. I do not claim to know for sure whether or not he had ever lived in Keddie. I do know he is NEVER listed anywhere as living in Keddie. FRB is a wonderful source of information on all the people listed in this case for anyone who takes the time to study it.
June 1980: Doug Thomas weds in Quincy, Ca. (Marriage May 24, 1980)
July 9, 1980: Doug Thomas applies for a building permit for a deck ($600) OAK STREET Quincy (this is 4 months before Sue moves to Keddie)
Now there was another Doug T. that shows up in FRB in 1984 (three years after sheriff Doug Thomas moves) He was hired as a high school counselor. It's obvious he was traveling between Chester and Jim Beckwouth and Quincy high schools. (this is also documented in FRB)
Oct 8, 1980: Garage moving sale from 10 - 4 house 28 Keddie - 2 refrigerators; furniture, clothing (who was moving out of 28?)
Henry Thompson is the only person to say he had been in the house because his brother had lived there. But I don't believe ( I will recheck) that was close to the time of the murders.
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Post by jmo on Mar 2, 2018 21:39:47 GMT -6
This case is driving me crazy. I've watched the People show numerous times, and find myself pausing it and saying, "That's not true!" to anybody in the room that will listen.
DT might have "known" Marty, but were they "friends"? DOUBTFUL. Small town cop...small town hoodlum. Marty probably considered him DT's friend, because that's what small town hoodlums do.
I'm having a hard time finding my butt with both hands on this forum. I have tried to load some pics but I keep getting an error message. FRUSTRATING!
I hope people are able to get to Mike and Linda Gamberg's page. Legs don't get any more out-of-proportion than that. I'll keep trying. This case might begin and end with Mike. Nobody works that Keddie room for that long and CLAIMS he knows nothing. He's dirty dirty dirty.
And, while I'm here, I'm just gonna spill a bit.
This Kathy Andreas that says she gave the boys a ride? She's Martel's aunt (you know the one that got kicked out of Keddie for dealing drugs) and she is still friends with Linda Gamberg. Facebook is a wonderful source of information. I don't believe Mike. I don't believe Linda. And, I sure sh*t don't believe Kathy. Dirty dirty dirty.
It pi**es me right the h*ll off that Mike is in charge of this whole thing. He's playing dmac like a fiddle and I hope dmac is playing him, too. What is Mike's timeline?? Maybe we should check into that. Not saying he's involved with the murders, but he's involved with this going nowhere. Up to his eyeballs. I wonder what his mouth sounds like? Could HE have called Sue a Dirty C? He sure seems to be okay with dmac saying that sh*t. Is Mike keeping his enemies close? He says he knew Sue, Johnny, Dana, and the others. Pretty damn close to all the players. And, why? He was a fired cop turned bartender turned cop. His wife Linda got a pretty cushy job, too. From a FRC typing class?? Wha??
As far as DT's involvement, I don't think he had any clue what rats were all involved. He was just climbing the ladder and took a better job. If there's ANY coverup AT ALL, it might very well begin with that short legged Avery type...AKA Mike. JMO
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Post by karis on Mar 3, 2018 10:34:59 GMT -6
I will say again the FRB is a great source of information on each one of the names in this case. It was not free but it has been an eye-opener in this case and well worth the money.
Starting with Doug T., this was NOT the first time he had left for a better job. Let's face it, he was not a local, and i'm sure he was looking to move up. Who wouldn't be! JMO you are right in that most small town police know the "small-time hoodlums". If he was covering of anyone in this case it would have made sense to stay and see it through. He didn't. I will check with Zodiac when I have time to see if he wants us to post some of these articles. It just puts the Doug T and Mike G thing in a whole new perspective.
It was Donna W. that claimed to give the boys a ride that night. Kathy Andreas was bartender at Keddie that night and claimed she heard "noises like someone putting something into a car and heard a male & female voice." Kathy Beckley is the one who was asked by Johnny and Dana to give them a ride. She stated that her mother called her to supper and the boys said they would hitchhike home. Just recently Dmac has said that he knows who gave them a ride. Mike G has recently told him. I think Kmik wrote a post on this recently so I won't go back through it.
" Could HE have called Sue a Dirty C? He sure seems to be okay with dmac saying that sh*t.'
I couldn't have said it better! I have often wondered why he uses a man that is so vile and full of hate. Who ever committed these crimes were full of hate!
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Post by jmo on Mar 3, 2018 21:45:31 GMT -6
Oh right right right. I got that mixed up. Thanks for catching it. :-)
Kathy didn't say she gave them a ride...she is the one that said Sue was SLEEPING with Marty. I find it a bit sketchy that Kathy felt the need to "pass that tidbit along" (when?)--seeing she is Martell's aunt and might be upset her niece got the boot. Maybe she thought Sue had narced? Bad blood? Blood's thicker than water? Funny nobody else even saw any flirting going on between the two. Could Kathy have made up this story to tell her friend, Gamberg's wife, Linda? Yassss. Haters gonna hate. Women. Whatdoyado haha
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Post by kmik on Mar 4, 2018 11:34:32 GMT -6
Jmo, Kathy Beckley (Dana's old girlfriend) is the one who had told the boys she would give them a ride - but supposedly (we're told 37 years later) ended up getting a mutual friend of her and her mom to give the boys a ride. We do not know the woman's name and have only been told that she was a waitress at the Pioneer Bar in Greenville (the same woman who said Marty and Sue were seeing each other and that Karl Spang was not at the Pioneer Bar that night). To bad she left out the most important thing - that she was the one who took them home.
You are right Kathy Andrea was a waitress at the Keddie Bar but not to be confused with Kathy Beckley (Dana's old girlfriend).
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Post by karis on Mar 4, 2018 20:20:09 GMT -6
I should have also added that Marilyn and Marty are listed as moving into cabin 26 July 1, 1980.
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Post by jmo on Mar 4, 2018 22:18:11 GMT -6
Once again, thanks for clearing that up! Tooooo many players. lol
Then it must have been Judy Lepley? She was the bartender at the Pioneer Bar that night and she's the one that said Karl wasn't there. She married a McBeen and died in 2006.
Here are some notes I took on the bars in the area a while ago. They're just my notes so they may seem a bit scrambled. lol I hope I don't make your eyes bleed! :-O Maybe you could look through them and correct anything that seems wrong? Thanks! I appreciate and welcome any corrections! :-)
NOTES ON BARS/BARTENDERS/ETC.
BACK DOOR The guy that closed the bar left at 215 am to 245, maybe later. Josh: I could find no interviews with anyone in the bar, including the bartender, in the case files. And we looked. And looked. And looked. They got a ride from a bartender who was a friend of Kathy Beckely. As for the 'blue car', the bartender was a car salesman in his real job, and drove whatever he wanted on the lot, so of course he had access to a blue car. Too bad he didn't have a clue if he drove it that night. Bo mentions "Bill" the owner or the bartender, he's referring to Doug Albin. He refers to him as the bartender, bar manager, owner and his wife is Jan. 810411-2030c James Wright & his wife, Yvonne & friends from Redding, Pat & John Welsh arrive at the Back Door Bar & sit in the bar area They talked to Jack Brown for a while & saw Banier Heater & his wife & son, Stacey & girlfriend, Bill Heden, Bill & Judy Lake, Kathy Andrea & a female bartender. (Yvonne thinks they arrived 9:;00pm.) <James Wright / Crim> <Yvonne Wright /
Crim810412-0130c Alton "Lee" Mitchell & his wife, Sheila, arrive at the Back Door Bar. Kathy Andrea, a male bartender & three other people seated at the bar were there. <Alton Mitchell / Crim> 810412-0000c
Wayne Goudy, the bartender at the Back Door Bar, left town. He had told Jack Brown he was leaving on Wed / Thu (4-8/9). He telephoned Jack on Sunday morning from San Jose. <Brubaker / Bradley>
Michelle Curran Worked in bar 4/11/81, saw Smartt and Boubede in bar. She said they left and returned. Worked that night but doesn't remember people there.
Margaret Drage Worked in the kitchen of the restaurant @ 1900-2330. Walked home and saw/heard nothing unusual.
MAPLE LEAF Dave Russell, the bartender at the Maple Leaf. Daniel French was arrested on 7/1/80 for molesting Tina and another girl, while Sue and her children lived at the Claremont Trailer Park in Quincy. French then moved to the Maple Leaf Bar in Belden, 22 miles from Keddie. In March 1981, he spotted Sue and "Daryl J" playing pool at the Belden Bar. French moved to Reno on either 9th or 10th of April, according to the police timeline. He was considered by some officers at PCSO to be a lead suspect in the crime.
PIONEER BAR Deputy Wright talked to a female bartender at the Pioneer Bar who dispelled Karl's story, and same bartender said that Marty was seeing Sue. Judy was a (female) bartender from the Pioneer Bar who dispelled Karl's story to Deputy Wright. This same bartender is the one who gave J/D the ride to Keddie which was confirmed by Kathy and a family member. Was it Kathy, the bartender, or a family member who came forward with the information on the ride? When did this person come forward with this story (1981 or 2017) Answer: Right bar, right night, wrong bartender. Bars usually had three or four of them.
I can confirm this bartender knows Sue and Marty were an item. in 11/80. Loon and Sue and Mike's wife all had the same typing class together. Sue had two typing classes, and Marty and the bartender were all in the other. Mike Gamberg's wife. Mike verified the info from the bartender against school records, which is how he found his wife was also in Sue's class. Sue took two typing classes, not in the same semester. Reid, Russell: FRC instructor, Sue started one class but dropped out after 9/18/80
**Female bartender + Karl wasn't there + Marty was seeing Sue = ? **Marilyn, Sue, and Linda had a typing class together. **Sue, Marty, and (the bartender) were in another typing class together. **Bartender says Sue and Marty were an item in November 1980. **Sue started one class but dropped out after 9/18/80. Russell Reid: Director of Equine Studies **So typing and horses. I'd sure like to get my hand on some school records. When did Sue officially drop out?
Mike spoke to the source from 81 who said Marty and Sue were clearly in an affair. He got verification from another person, and as a third dose, K Beckley explained J/D's ride home, with her confirmation very consistent with the other accounts.
**LEPLEY, JUDY Bartender Pioneer Bar, K. Spang not there on night of 187 <WRIGHT> Greenville resident Judith Mary Lepley McBeen passed from this life suddenly, Monday morning, August 14th, 2006. Was Judy the "source from 1981" or was it another bartender? idk
GAMBERG: Back when I found the tape, I found a folder in the same box. Filled with photocopied reports I'd never seen before. PHOTOCOPIED reports
5-13-81 The recall fails. Recallers failed to turn in a single signature. The petitions were not filed on time. Dorothy Trail said they were around 400 signatures short. Hearing to reinstate Mike Gamberg begun the previous week before the Board of Supervisors. Hearing will resume May 27.
6-3-81 Gamberg firing upheld in an unanimous decision by the board of supervisors. Gamberg plans to fight it, contends numerous articles were placed in his personnel file that he never saw.
6-17-81 Doug Thomas resigns effective July 20. Doug Thomas accepted a senior consultant position in Sacramento with the Police Officer’s Standards and Training agency, a division of the DOJ. Doug Thomas asked that Asst. Sheriff Ken Shanks replace him as interim Sheriff.
I was fired not once, but twice for inefficiency with a 98% arrest and conviction record for 10+ years. Thomas and his under sheriff Shanks were caught fabricating other charges. The Superior Court reinstated me and awarded back pay, benefits and a settlement for my wrongful termination. I returned to work where I stayed until my retirement in 1994.
The reason I had difficulty believing the bartender's account of Sue sleeping with Marty is the mindblowing other shit she brought up: She gave John and Dana the ride to Keddie late Saturday night. The reason it's been secret for 35 years is she didn't want to get Kathy Beckley in trouble for her affair with Dana.
**Okay, so either it's been a secret for 35 years or it was reported in 1981. Which is it? It can't be both. What officer (if it is in a file) would be covering for a Kathy Beckley rendezvous? What WAS this bartender's roll in all of this?
Kathy had promised them a ride, but had no gas, so she had her mom contact the bartender- mutual friends- and she went and picked the boys up later, she reckons between 10-11 pm, maybe even later. She said Keddie seemed really spooky that night- 28 was dark, no exterior lamp on, and the internal lighting was very dim. She was very uneasy, and got the hell out of there.
**Was Kathy Beckley's mother friends with Judy? Or, Kathy Andrea? Or Linda? **Was Judy friends with Linda? We know Kathy Andrea is Linda's friend. **Why so nervous to have to "get the hell out of there"?
This account has been confirmed by two sources, a family member and Kathy herself. **Whose FAMILY MEMBER could this be?
xxxxx (Josh's producer) was unsure if Marty's desires had been consummated, but [bartender] makes it clear they had been. Not just that, but they were fairly stupid and in-the-open about it. This producer is also the source that Zonita had told them of overhearing a sexual encounter coming from 28 Saturday afternoon, the 11th. I'm pretty certain that if Z told Josh's crew, then her family is aware of that- and much more.
**Sue was out riding around and cleaning the yard and had kids in and out all day but yet had time for some afternoon delight? Sounds more like a rape to me, if that occurred.
**Questions on years 1. When did Josh first make his documentaries? 2. When did Mike find the tape and folder? 3. When did Mike talk to his "source" that the 1981 folder reveiled? (Proof Marty/Sue relationship?)
THE MORE I LEARN, THE LESS I KNOW.
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Post by kmik on Mar 4, 2018 23:42:47 GMT -6
Judy is the only documented bartender from the Pioneer Bar that "dispelled" Karl's story to Deputy Wright. Karis and I are looking into a couple other women that possibly bartended at the Pioneer Bar (one is also deceased). If it's Judy then yes she died in 2006 so she didn't tell the story of the ride. But if you look at 28's wording he's not specific on who told about the ride. It sounds to me more like a family member or Kathy herself came forward with this story recently - not in 1981. If that's true then why the 36 year cover up? (I don't buy the "secret was kept because of Kathy's relationship with Dana") she obviously told the police they came to her house.
If this info of "who gave the boys a ride" was not told in 1981 then why would we believe the story she told in 1981 of Marty seeing Sue? Sorry but something about the whole thing just doesn't sound right. And 28 doesn't mind throwing Kathy's name around but not the name of the person who supposedly took them home?
In 2015 I asked Dmac (in private chat) if he knew who took the boys home and his response was, " if he knew it would be all over the forum". I don't know about yall but I don't seem to see it anywhere. Makes me wonder about the reason for his silence.
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Post by Admin Horan on Mar 7, 2018 12:37:18 GMT -6
Gamberg told me last month that a "new witness has come forward" to confirm that ______________ gave the boys a ride to Keddie. He wouldn't say who the witness was, or who the driver was. I ended up with the impression that Ms Andrea was "confirming" Donna Williams's story. In other words, neither person is "new."
Gamberg claims the ME did a terrible, "rushed" job on the autopsies. Reading the reports, they were what I would call definitely above average--he even checked for adhesive tape residue on Dana's "area." Gamberg's problem with the autopsies is, of course, exactly what I pointed out--they flat contradict the theory that Sue was the "first" victim and the boys "interrupted" that crime. I asked him sraight out about the ME's notes on probable time of death, and his answer was, "Uuuuuuuhhhhh...I don't know. I guess I'll have to look that up." That was his answer to EVERY question that we here have had about the "missing" files and reports. Every question. All while repeatedly asserting that he has "worked" on this case every day for years, and that he "has information well beyond what is available on McNarie's website." Like, what? "I can't say."
I've talked to a LOT of "detectives" over the years. Half of them are as sharp as razors, and half are as dumb as doorknobs. Gamberg is almost as smart as a doorknob. And on top of everything else, he wasn't even on the force at the time. I asked him flat out--"You say you were friends with all these people and close to the victims and Marilyn. What exactly did you do at the time to HELP try and catch their killer(s)?" Nothing. He did absolutely nothing.
Sheila, on that snippet of tape, says that a busboy/waiter at the bar had said that they saw a truck parked near Cabin 28 and saw some people walking from the truck up to the house. That sure sounds like Phillip's story.
Kathy Beckely's "affair" with Dana was known to investigators in 1981. There was no "secret" to keep. And if ANYONE other than the perpetrators gave the boys a ride to Keddie, there is NO reason for them to not admit that.
jmo: YOU were a deputy at PCSO? "I was fired not once, but twice for inefficiency with a 98% arrest and conviction record for 10+ years. Thomas and his under sheriff Shanks were caught fabricating other charges. The Superior Court reinstated me and awarded back pay, benefits and a settlement for my wrongful termination. I returned to work where I stayed until my retirement in 1994. " That's you? Did you know DeCrona?
Now, as I pointed out on the podcast, Wade/Blaine/Phillip drove RIGHT PAST the spot where Johnny and Dana were seen hitching in front of the Exxon, but claimed they didn't pick them up. What about Don Davis? He and his wife drove RIGHT PAST THE SAME SPOT on their way to Keddie. Did THEY pick the boys up? No? And he supposedly didn't call Sue and invite her along, or stop by and say "hello," either. There are some OTHER holes in his story, and he obviously suggested to Sheila that she not tell everything she knew. Did HE give the boys a ride SOMEWHERE? And he is also part of the whole mystery of WHY Sue would move to Plumas, let alone stay. He was supposedly her only contact there--aaaaaand her only lifeline at all. He has THREE provable opportunities--not to mention downright likelihoods--for making contact with the victims right before they're murdered, but supposedly, didn't. And then the next morning, "a member of the family" called him. WHO? There was one TOLL call from Cabin 28 to Jim Sharp before the murders. How many COLLECT calls? We don't know. How many to Jim Sharp FROM DON DAVIS? We don't know.
I'll say it again--the two people who SHOULD have given the most help to LE gave them almost no help at all--Sheila Sharp, and Don Davis.
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Post by jmo on Mar 7, 2018 12:54:21 GMT -6
No. That there's Mr. Gamberg's words. :-) I in no way shape or form have anything to do with LE in CA. Not now nor then. Like I said...I have a thinnnnn line to Quincy and no line to Keddie. Ish. Everyone can talk about what a "beautiful" place it is/was but um. NOPE. Can't even walk through a grocery store and talk about this for fear of "someone" overhearing. It's horrible. So, nope, nope, and nope.
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Post by jmo on Mar 7, 2018 13:18:10 GMT -6
And, yes, that's what I thought. Could be wrong (no surprise there ) but, I thought Kathy Andrea told Linda (her friend) who told Mike Gamberg (Linda's husband). And, that's where the "IT'S ALL BEEN VETTED" comes into play. (I hate that word "vetted" because people use the word "vetted" to mean PROVED and it simply means "looked into").
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Post by kmik on Mar 12, 2018 19:53:59 GMT -6
Things that have been said.
Mike and Martel made up a reverse fake alibi for Tony Garedakis. Tony G. is never mentioned in any reports or statements that we have. Mike (Frank) Davis gave a statement in '81 of Sue fighting with a man who had bushy hair and short legs - Frank made no mention of Martel in the report, what so ever, as being a witness to what he said he saw at 10:00PM a month before the murders from his cabin. Martel discussed the "incident" on the documentary as if she had witnessed this herself.
Tony Garedakis has been on the run since 28 "outed" him. Only in 28's dreams. According to all we've read Tony isn't living any differently now that he has always lived. Here and there, living off his parents, moving back and forth. But it's all meaningless because he isn't mentioned in ANY reports or statements we have.
The back bridge was open. The bridge was opened, the bridge was locked, whatever, whatever. If Tina was carried, walked, or swam across the Spanish Creek we will never know because nobody reported seeing or hearing anyone dragging or carrying anything or anybody across the bridge - and people were still out, about and awake (Doug Gleason crossed the bridge around 2:00am).
Justin was involved and all the boys were awake. Josh Hancock told in 2006 that it was an undisputed fact that Justin covered Sue. I don't think there are many people who need proof that the boys were awake through these murders.
Justin is protecting Marilyn. If I had to guess I'd have to say Marilyn is more than likely protecting Justin.
Postmortem wounds and staging. Still doesn't spell out the killers name.
DeCrona lied about his dad, Shanks was accused of molesting children, DeCrona and Shanks set up the program Doug Thomas took over and Doug Thomas couldn't pass a bg check to get the job. Please PROVE to me what any of this has to do with the Keddie murders.
The "Loonabi" is real and has been proven. It REALly was invented by someone. It has not been proven- remember this case was handed over to VIDOCQ not the D.A.
Dee Lake lied about the rifle, the car, etc... To who?
The Meeks lied about Sunday and when they were at 26 on Sunday. We were all stupid to chisel anything in stone they said after 20 plus years. Justin told the hypnotist shortly after the murders they were in Keddie all day and went to Nina's that night. Marty told in his interview on Tuesday the 14th that he had been gone all day yesterday (Monday) to Reno. I'm just betting he went to Reno on Monday to see his therapist.
Marty was seeing Sue. Very hard to believe that the one source of this story just happens to supposedly come from the lady who never told she gave the boys a ride to Keddie that night.
The "Love Letter" is proof of Marty's guilt. Only if you think Marty was referring to Sue, Johnny, Tina, and Dana as 4 of the "most precious things in his life", and "his flesh and blood. People, people, read, the letter.
Mike G.'s been real busy. With what? He's supposedly been working on this case since 2013. Are we supposed to believe it's taken him 4 years to get this information together for VIDOCQ?
Until it can be PROVEN we do not believe the aerial photos were taken on the day of the murders. If so it had to be afternoon - after most of the people left.
I can't say Marty did not commit these murders but I can say I do not see any evidence, nor do the police obviously, that he did. There's just too many questions left unanswered about others that could have actually committed these murders. And I cannot believe that more people are not interested in looking at anyone besides Marty Smartt. Maybe they just don't want to take the time. But the police WILL take the time to look at EVERYONE - and not just Marty.
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Post by kmik on Mar 15, 2018 22:02:47 GMT -6
People do read up on "the case" but most of what they are interested in reading are what others have to say about the Marty theory. Many spend too much time repeating and analyzing the old post written by Glenna and Marilyn (20 plus years after the murders). That's what we did when we first joined a forum and it's a waste of time. The most important thing anyone really interested in this case can do is read the information (timeline, reports, and statements from 1981) and get a subscription to the FRB. Don't rely on someone else's speculation or opinions.
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Post by jmo on Mar 16, 2018 11:15:43 GMT -6
I agree. But, it's sooooo frustrating when everything always goes to Marty. Not saying he didn't do this, but how can people skip the (non) evidence? I've been listening to every podcast out there and it's always the same 'ole, same ole. Yours/Tom's is the only one that questions things. I get so utterly annoyed when they pronounce Plumas as Plumbas and Butte as but and don't even get me going on Bo's last name. haha It's hard not to fast forward on a lot of the podcasts as you can see they haven't done any research at all.
Kudos to you two and Tom for tryng to bring some light to this case.
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Post by kmik on Mar 16, 2018 20:25:41 GMT -6
Thanks JMO! I think most all of us on this forum are here because we have questions that have nothing to do with Marty. Most of the other podcast or stories are nothing but info taken from the documentaries and 28. Isn't it funny how easily Josh Hancock slipped away from this case never to be affiliated with it again?
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