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Post by kmik on Mar 2, 2018 15:57:41 GMT -6
We've read the old post for years and for a long time we assumed the trip to Reno happened on Sunday April 12, 1981. But Glenna said in a 2006 post that Marty came by fairly early the next day, in Dee's car, going to Reno to take Bo to the VA Hospital. The next day would have to refer to Monday April 13. Her posts are centered around the day of the murders, so the next day would have to be the day after the murders. This would be more in line with Justin telling Dr. Dash (under hypnosis) that they stayed in Keddie all day and went to Nina's that night. It would also line up with Marty telling Crim and Bradley in his interview (the 14th) that he was gone all yesterday to Reno (that would be Monday 13th). If this is right then Marty was more than likely in Keddie all day and never went to Reno on Sunday.
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Post by jmo on Apr 11, 2018 21:33:29 GMT -6
Dmac's latest post. I'll leave this open for discussion. Please share your views.
The article in the Plumas News will reveal what I haven't. Justin's DNA was found on a strip of medical tape discarded near Sue's head. Many may recall my pointing out that 6-inch strip of tape years back when reviewing CS photos. Shit, I never included it when compiling how many rolls of tape must have been brought by the killers in this obviously, blatantly, premeditated murder by fucking idiots. Well, I logically couldn't include it, could I? I don't know the width. I can't attribute to either column.
Upon which width of tape was Justin's DNA found? The killers brought two widths and several rolls. The wide tape was used solely on Dana (we don't know abt Tina, other than the killers removed empty tape cores from 28, and one possibly unrelated tape core was recovered at Camp 18). Try to find the tape core found at 18, check width.
Width of tape is dangerous. If wide, it meant Justin was probably involved far earlier than we've accounted. We know he was fully involved at some stage as a forced participant, but we don't know when. The engagement must have been instantaneous. The boys woke when Sue and/or Tina screamed. John and Dana made their heroic response immediately. Yet the crime scene was within control quite quickly. Tina was silenced, somehow dead. Strangulation is an obvious answer and guess as to why Marty choked up about Tina in his confession.
The aggressors: John and Dana- dispatched by hammer blows. Left alive, but bleeding out. Bo and Marty flee to 26, change clothing as Bo noted in his interview, and return to the Back Door. Their entire alibi is they, all THREE, were at the Back Door til closing. But Loon was at 28, keeping the kids in line.
=================================
How Phillip got from the church to preaching for bucks?
If my math is correct, the aerial photos of Dee's and Wade's cars in front of 26 are around 11:57 am on Sunday. I believe this chopper held Crim and/or Bradley.
The prints of those aerial shots, like all other DOJ shots of the era, were rubber-stamped in red with the date they were processed/printed. Not the date taken, as how the FUCK would anyone in the lab know over what date range a roll was exposed? So all those shots were taken Sunday, April 12, as a DOJ chopper wasn't sent out again until Wednesday or Thursday. Anyone saying otherwise is a fucking asshole moron. I worked in film labs for a fucking decade, and Monday Morning QBs can't fuck with how the truth was and is. RED STAMP was PRINT DATE. Fucking deuces.
If you timeline back to when Crim and/or Bradley could have been alerted Sunday morning, driven from their Roseville/Rocklin homes to west Sac DOJ station, had a chopper waiting for them, and then hovering over Keddie? It indicates to me Crimely were on the case between the time Doug Thomas was alerted of the murders, and the time Doug Thomas actually arrived on-scene.
The basic timeline of Doug's action on Sunday, detailed solely via Stoy's lying pen (to my knowledge), is Doug didn't want his words on paper. Which is why Stoy filled out the lies in the reports, even scratching shit out to falsely indicate PCSO immediately recognized Tina was missing.
I believe Doug knew who the killers were before he called DOJ, and LE scum with whom he had pull were dispatched to Plumas. If true, the implications are more obvious than curious.
Look at witness statements, look at who were outside their homes to see the chopper, and possibly Dee's and Wade's cars leaving Keddie.
The point, to me, is Loon and Wade and Dee and Bo and Marty could all have been in 26 when the chopper arrived. Find an alibi for each of these fucks, and more, as I believe the Meeks and everyone else lied about where they were when the chopper arrived.
Mama said the Meeks heard about the murders in the morning, and Mama said she and Wade went out to pick up Sue and the kids immediately. Did you read the thread I recently founded on this intricate topic? It's all about timing, and how Phillip may have first met up with the Meeks on Sunday, early enough to be selling stories 100 yds away at the booze barns.
Bad wording. It's obvious Phil heard from the Meeks. But his info was just secondhand. The info Phil sold for a drunk proves what the Meeks knew, and when. He was selling it at noon, and the Meeks often deny they heard of the murders til later. Yet Wade is in 26 and out as soon as the choppers circle and the rats flee. PHIL IS SELLING THE MURDERS at the very time DOJ choppers find Wade's car and Dee's car fleeing a DOJ chopper!
FFS!
Everyone has denied Wade was in Keddie at noon Sunday. Loon and Mama, and all else to my knowledge, have differing stories which are still explicit in saying Wade was not there when the chopper hovered. LIARS.
Look at all the aerial photos and you'll find someone staring up at the chopper. People came out of their houses to look. Why? Because they heard the copper-chopper first, recognized the sound from TV shows (Love Boat Tragedy), then collected outside to look up and gaze while the DOJ machine circled Keddie multiple times.
Shift to 26. The residents were there, at noon, which must have included Marty and Bo. Who was using Wade's fagwagon? Wade, or someone to whom he trusted his sole reason for living: his turd-green land yacht bomb.
Why would Wade be there? Either for Loon and the kids, or for Bo and Marty and Dee and Tina's body.
Fact is, when the chopper hit Keddie, the first thing anyone noticed was the sound. They recognized choppers. Most ran out and looked up to glare-stare.
Wade's car jetted out, while no photos show anyone leaving 26. Not to load either car, if the alibi is Wade and Loon were loading up closthes and shit. That's not anyone's alibi, which itself is curious.
It's not Wade's alibi. When was he in Keddie, according to Wade, on Sunday? Compare that to what others say, including his co-alibi who went to the dance with Wade and Phil, whose own car was seen in Keddie Sunday afternoon. All names and times are variously recorded in comedic PCSO timelines, but look closer.
Bottom line is it's clear the Meeks are lying about where they were on Sunday, and we have Wade's car flash out of 26 before Dee's car is seen trying to hide from the chopper under trees. With people nearby staring up at the chopper.
OCCAM'S RAZOR:
Wade was at 26 with Marty, Bo, Loon, Justin, the other kid, and were together as a pre-planned group. Not just bumping into each other. It was planned. I don't believe all their varied bullshit for a moment, not now.
Wade was already fucking Loon. No fucking doubt.
Not since I nailed the Meeks as absolutely possibly directly involved. Wade and McPlumber were with Phil. but fuck Phil-fodder fill. Look at the cars leaving at noon on Sunday, and it is the very killers and co-conspirators alleged as involved by simple evidence.
Fuck anyone who can't see this.
It means the Meeks are at least directly involved in the lie.
Name the Meeks who directly fuck this case. Wade. Mama. Richard.
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Post by kmik on Apr 12, 2018 6:46:08 GMT -6
What part to respond to?
1. Justin's DNA on the tape near Sue's head? Well we all assumed it was somewhere in the crime scene. But unless Justin talks (oh Dear Lord not again) he already told in 1981 that he was down by Sue trying to stop the bleeding so he could easily explain that he touched the tape. 28 can keep explaining away that Justin was "forced", while at the same time calling him a murderer (because he thinks Justin was forced but is as guilty as a murderer because he won't tell the police his mommy and Marty did it) but obviously the police are a little stumped by Justin's DNA
2. Johnny and Dana rushed to help Sue and Tina but were somehow killed (simultaneously by one man while the other restrained Sue and Tina??) Odd that they would rush to respond to cries for help yet the had ZERO defensive wounds on them and ZERO blood under their bindings (the ME had no reason to lie, and everyone who worked on the case was not incompetent). It appears to us that the boys were attacked by a blow to the head (while they were unaware or asleep on the floor).
3. The aerial photos TAKEN AT NOON ON SUNDAY with Bo, Marty, and Dee "sneaking" out of Keddie headed to "RENO". My problem with the aerial shots are we have NO idea when they were taken. If they were taken at noon on Sunday then we are to believe that the call came into police around 8:30, they got to the scene found 3 murdered, one missing and wrapped it all up by NOON? (I've seen cops and spectators stay longer than that at the scene of a car wreck) Look at the photos - the place is not swarming with every police car in Plumas as described by Joe McPlumber and Mrs. Seabolt. Sue's car is gone from the back yard, 2 yellow railroad trucks are parked at the bar/restaurant, and just because kids or adults were starring at the sky doesn't prove it was Sunday (the kids were out all week for Spring/Easter/Break) - so they had all week to stare at the sky. And NONE of it proves Marty took a trip to Reno on Sunday - from Glenna Meeks OWN account (WHICH IS WHERE THIS STORY BEGAN) he came by her house EARLY the MORNING AFTER THE MURDERS (that is MONDAY), headed to Reno - which is just what Marty told Crim/Bradley.
But I love how 28 draws in an audience with his writing skills:
He makes these people seem like a bunch of idiots.
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Post by jmo on Apr 12, 2018 13:05:26 GMT -6
This whole post makes my face hurt. I. Can't. Even.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 16, 2018 17:50:40 GMT -6
Uuuuuuuhhhhhh, okay, maybe Justin REMOVED a piece of tape? Hmmmmmmmmmmm...from where?
I had been assuming that if they really did find Justin's DNA, it was on something like the red shorts that were soaked with blood (as though someone had, indeed, tried to stop the bleeding.)
Justin's DNA on a piece of white tape? McNarie's right--it might matter which roll--the wide, or the narrow. Now, if it got there because he participated in the "tying up," then why isn't it on any of the other pieces? Maaaayyyyybeeee because:
1. He only touched it (the roll) before ANY of it was unspooled and used. As in, he brought it? Or grabbed it from the bathroom? How did THAT piece end up next to Sue's head?
2. He removed it from--who? Sue? Where on Sue? Her eyes?
3. He removed it from--who? Not Sue. Again, McNarie's right--was it the wide tape, or the narrow?
4. WHY did he [maybe] REMOVE it from _________? To put it ON Sue somewhere? Like a bandage? It was found near her head. To put it over her eyes?
I'm jumping to the conclusion that the piece of tape was found UNDER the blankets covering Sue. Justin's DNA was found UNDER the blankets. IF so, then only ONE possible conclusion: Justin covered Sue. Maybe he uncovered her first, then monkeyed with the tape and whatever else, then RE-covered her, but he covered her. But--his DNA was not found on the blanket? (That doesn't prove anything, unfortunately, but...)
No matter what, that might be the single most important thing to come from this. Justin was in contact with Sue's body BEFORE she was covered by SOMEONE ELSE? What I mean is, if Justin DID touch Sue "trying to help her" but didn't cover her, THEN THE PERSON WHO COVERED SUE WAS IN CABIN 28 AFTER JUSTIN TRIED TO HELP SUE.
I'll say it again--McNarie, again, is right about SOMETHING. It might matter a lot which roll of tape. But, he's so caught up with his already made up mind about what happened, that he forgets the [maybe] most important thing:
THE PERSON WHO COVERED SUE WAS IN CABIN 28 AFTER JUSTIN WENT INTO THE LIVING ROOM.
Who?
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 16, 2018 18:35:26 GMT -6
I wonder if they found ANY body's DNA that was NOT from the victims or Justin? They have never said anything about "3 unaccounted for people." Just, "Justin Eason." And of course, the victims. That's it.
I mean, Dana was wearing someone else's boots. Did they find that boy's DNA? Did they look? Maybe not. But they tested a discarded scrap of tape. What about the rest of the tape? "Justin Eason's DNA on one piece, 2 unidentified persons on the other pieces." Nope. Just, Justin.
I mean, unless someone tells us otherwise, it's "Sharp family DNA, Dana Wingate DNA, and Justin Eason DNA." I asked Gamberg straight out--"Did they find ANY evidence of any outsiders in the house that night?"
"Well, no, they didn't. But who knows? Maybe the killers wore gloves."
"I thought you said you found palm prints and fingerprints, but they're too smudged for ID purposes."
"Well, yeah."
"So, they didn't wear gloves."
"Uh, I guess probably not."
"And you found no blood or any other evidence that Tina was killed in Cabin 28."
"That's right."
And now, official admission that they found Justin's DNA in a suspicious place, but no mention of ANYONE ELSE (since Tina's, Sues, Johnny's, Dana's, Greg's, Ricky's, and Sheila's touch DNA would be everywhere in the house).
So, no reason to even LOOK for intruders. I mean, wouldn't that explain EVERYTHING? No Chucks, no Martys, no Steves, no nobody. Just Sharps, Dana, and Justin. The people we already knew were in Cabin 28 that night. Nobody else.
Nobody spotted a getaway car because there wasn't one. Nobody saw any outsiders going into or leaving the cabin because there weren't any. No dogs barked because there was no one to bark at. No Smartts. No Walkes. No Howards. No Meekses. No Boubedes.
Just Sharps, Dana, and Justin.
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Post by kmik on Apr 16, 2018 19:31:02 GMT -6
You are right, it appears that no other fingerprints/dna were found in the cabin. Gamberg said in the recent article that most of the suspects wore gloves. Would his belief of that be based on the non existence of fingerprints or maybe bloody smears? I'm not on a crusade to clear Marty Smartts name and I truly hope that if he is the killer it is revealed - but there just doesn't seem to be anything connecting him to being in that cabin. The families deserve the truth and not some theory.
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Post by karis on May 19, 2018 7:24:38 GMT -6
I mean, unless someone tells us otherwise, it's "Sharp family DNA, Dana Wingate DNA, and Justin Eason DNA." I asked Gamberg straight out--"Did they find ANY evidence of any outsiders in the house that night?"
"Well, no, they didn't. But who knows? Maybe the killers wore gloves."
"I thought you said you found palm prints and fingerprints, but they're too smudged for ID purposes."
"Well, yeah."
"So, they didn't wear gloves."
"Uh, I guess probably not."
This is from a report dated March 10, 1986
DOJ reports a new proccess (sic) for developing partial prints using laser. The bloody print from the scene was enhanced so suspects (sic) names should be resubmitted for comparison.
No. #1 - Suspect- Carl K. about 20 yrs old in 1981 (Friend of Frank Davis)
Other Possibles :
Steven S L about 18 yrs in 1981 (Friend of Chuck Walke)
John Sidney S about 19 yrs in 1981 (5 reports that he looked like composite + was dealing drugs)
So there were at least 3 samples submitted and they obviously didn't match these three.
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Post by Michele on Jun 1, 2018 15:39:36 GMT -6
If Marilyn and Glenna Meeks were best friends and like family, I wonder if Glenna ever went over to offer comfort and support to Sheila and the boys that morning? We know she went to Keddie to pick up Marilyn. Does anyone know if she bothered to check on her best friends kids?
It would be the very first thing on my mind...making sure they were okay.
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Post by kmik on Jun 1, 2018 20:58:06 GMT -6
Never once in her old post did she ever mention going by to console the kids of the family she said she was so close to. But I guess that could be a good indication that she actually picked up Marilyn and the kids later on that afternoon just like Marilyn and Justin said (he told Dr. Dash in his hypnosis that they stayed in Keddie all day). I guess that would also indicate that Marty was not out hiding a body or worrying about hiding one. The date on the aerial photos has never been confirmed. For all we know the photos were taken Sunday after everyone (but a cop or two) had left the scene. Or either Monday or Tuesday when they were searching for Tina.
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Post by justice17 on Jun 12, 2018 21:40:27 GMT -6
Hello, I had this saved in my notes. Don’t you think The fact that Marilyn doesn’t know exactly who Marde is yelling at on the phone is highly suspicious? Their cabin wasn’t that big. She would know who he was speaking too. Dmac did a pretty good job interrogating her on the subject.
MM:"We left the lounge because Marde got into an argument with Jan I don't know what it was really about" Jan wasn't there at the time. Marty was talking to her husband. And you said it was Bo that blew his top, not Marde.
Why did Marde blow his top, when you told LE in April 81 it was Bo that went apeshit? "It had to have been Marde . MM: Who else would he have called and yelled at over the phone when we got home that night. I heard him yelling on the phone. I was standing at the bedroom door when he hung up the phone and said she can't talk to me like that. He called her a bitch and slammed the phone down" "I have not a clue"
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Post by kmik on Jun 13, 2018 5:24:51 GMT -6
Justice, he wasted so many good opportunities asking the most irrelevant questions. The phone call?? Irrelevant to me because the police have talked to the people at the bar (unlike Dmac). If Marty did not call the bar and go back there is no doubt Mike G would be using that against him. Go back and read the 3 news articles on Keddie. In part 2 Mike G said he had recently talked to Jan Albin about Marty. She said that his cooking wasn't satisfactory. That's all she said? He claimed there was more but that was all he shared. If Jan Albin told him more against Marty he would have been glad to share it (like the love letter that was a love letter) but there is not. There will never be a case against Marty Smartt because he is dead so the police have no reason to hide ANY evidence against him.
Part 3 includes the alleged music change and not once do they say it didn't happen. They imply it didn't by saying Marty "claimed" to have gotten mad, left, and came back but there isn't any attempt to discredit him.
Timeline A said around 1.00am. Eric, Bobby, and Lisa quit playing records but they don't leave until around 1:30 - 2:00am
If these people wrapped up their record playing around 1:00am then the bar was left without music right? No, because after these people quit playing their records some other source of music was turned on or the bar would have probably closed around 1:00am when they quit playing their records. So obviously Marty got mad when they turned on rock and roll, went home and made a phone call to the bar because there is no proof of anyone saying he didn't.
I see no problem with Marilyn's response to Dmac. She said Marty got mad at Jan and Jan wasn't there. Obviously Jan made the decision of what music was to be played after Eric and Bobby quit playing their records and then she went home. Mart got mad and mouthed off about it but Jan was already gone. Why in the world would Marty call Sue around 1:00am and wake her up if he was hoping to catch her asleep in the bedroom?
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Post by justice17 on Jun 13, 2018 11:55:47 GMT -6
Kmik, All valid points.
As they say, there is usually a bit of the truth in every lie. Maybe the angry phone call was actually earlier in the evening. Ricky said his Mom got a phone call around 9pm and Sue replied “who is this”?
Also, in Mardes love letters he asks Marilyn to forgive him, and now is the time to start over. Forgive him for what I wonder?
I don’t know...it’s all so mind boggling 😬
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Post by kmik on Jun 13, 2018 13:29:49 GMT -6
Yes it's all mind blowing. The love letter is a love letter. What did he want her to forgive him for? Well certainly not murder if she's the one who ordered the hit. Before mailing these letters he sent to Marilyn, he called Brent Hays saying he was going to kill Marilyn's boyfriends if she didn't come back to him. My interpretation of the letter is him telling her that he was sorry for being so jealous of her but that he loved her and set out to prove that by reminding her what he had given up (his children - his flesh and blood- 4 of the most precious things in his life) to be with her at the same time loving her children as his own - something she did not do for him. And now she had moved on to other men and he was begging for her back. That's what the letter is about. If he murdered Sue, Johnny, Dana, and Tina he never revealed it in this "love letter". Do you remember he even included a sappy line from a Willie Nelson song - yep I'd say he probably loved some country music.
Justice, I'm not trying to convince you of anything - I just want you to understand why we believe there is no evidence against Marty Smartt. You've been at this for awhile yourself - what are your thoughts? It has been used out of context in the documentary, the tv show, the news articles and for years on Dmac's forum and always with the implication that this letter was about murder. Do you really believe that when you read it without that bias?
As for the phone call the only calls I remember mentioned was the one that supposedly came in around 9:00pm from Nina and another around the same time where Sue asked, "Who is this". The boys were supposedly in bed by 10:00pm so if the boys said Sue answered a seperate phone call around 1:00am and asked, "who is this" then that would indicated the boys were awake at 1:00a.m. But we have no statement of them saying another call came in around 1:00am with Sue asking, "who is this".
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Post by justice17 on Jun 13, 2018 17:56:12 GMT -6
Kmik:
When I was a newbie my radar was on The Meeks and rage over Sheilas baby being put up for adoption. Then after being on 28 website for so long I was (and still sort of) believed Marde/Bo were the perpetrators but that could be due to the fact that Dmac was so influential in convincing...I don’t know.
If I take MMB completely out of the equation, I have always thought Chuck & Henry were/are Strong POI.
Tony G. is another. Mr. Seabolt is also one that I have always wondered about.
What are your thoughts? Besides MMB, what does your gut tell you?
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