kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Mar 8, 2020 21:50:46 GMT -6
My theory on that has always been the same.
I truly think they attacked Dana first because he posed the biggest threat (he was the largest one there, being about the size of a grown man and he was the oldest besides she) and that is why he has no defensive wounds.
Johnny only had one bruise on one of his knuckles which could come from punching someone. Could that have been from that night? Possibly.
So I think right when they walked in or were already there, Dana was attacked first to the point he couldn’t fight back, and Johnny got one punch in before he couldn’t fight back anymore.
That is also why I believe there was more than one person involved, and Johnny and Dana walked in on the incident. Four against one? Even with a gun it is possible that one of them could have ran away. But that’s just a possibility.
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Post by kmik on Mar 9, 2020 7:02:06 GMT -6
If Johnny and Dana walked in on something already in progress how would the killers have known who was gonna walk in first - Johnny or Dana? I know it has been said that Johnny fought for his family but it's certainly not his fault if he couldn't. Johnny may very well have fought with someone but it was reported that he was already nursing a week old black eye so it's possible the black eye wasn't all he had from the previous fight. There isn't anything I see (with my untrained eye) from the autopsy that would indicate he fought at all.
The cabin was TINY. If Johnny and Dana were in the basement and went upstairs after hearing something I'd think they would have already been cautious as they entered the upstairs and they didn't walk in through the front or back door at the same time surely leaving the last one through the door time to turn and run out even if they had already entered the cabin. The cabin was TINY so I can't see a mob of people inside fighting or killing without destroying that house and I can't see someone hiding behind the front door because it opened to the wall and there was definitely not enough room for someone to open the door up if someone was behind it.
If Johnny and Dana were laying in the living room floor it would have been very easy for someone to walk up behind them and attack while they were unaware. I am all over the map on suspects and theories but when I think of what possibly went on in the cabin that night I often think of Henry's roommate saying, "It only started out as a game" - and if even remotely true that could explain a lot.
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tt
New Member
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Post by tt on Mar 9, 2020 17:09:00 GMT -6
There are so many possibilities as to what happened. Wouldn't it be beneficial to go down each theory putting in place motive, timeline, evidence, etc. until that particular theory stops making logical sense? If everyone gave their thoughts and knowledge as to what happened based one one premace at a time, we might be able to weed out each one at a time. Unfortunately, the majority of evidence is in the hands of the sheriffs department. Why not share what they have at this point? There are no heroes at this point. It is obvious there will never be any arrest going down the road as it goes now.
I hate to bring it up, but there are really good psychics that solve crimes out there. I would be interested in gathering 2 or 3 at different times to see what they come up with. However, with so much varying energy and bs floating around, it may be a futile attempt. The psychics Josh showed in his documentary were awful. They just felt something and sent in information. I am referring to psychics that do this type of work all the time and work with local authorities now.
I think you had the right idea Tom in asking everyone to forget what they know about the case and just listen to the evidence. Your show was phenomenal in giving an overview of different suspects and POI in the case. Are you planning on doing a follow up show any time soon? I know Kim and Kathy's input helped to give dimension to the information presented.
I don't think anyone answered my question about when Marty returned from Reno and stopped at Gleena Meeks house and kept saying, "I've got to get back to Keddie, I have some unfinished business", or something like that. Wasn't Marilyn also at her house stating she moved out of her cabin and left Marty? [Marilyn moved out Sunday night, right? She stayed with Gleena Meeks. Marty went to Reno on Monday and returned Monday evening or early Tuesday morning, right? So, Gleena Meeks said in Josh's documentary Marty stopped by her house on his way back from Reno and she was trying to convince him to stay. Marilyn had to be there, right? Am I getting something mixed up?
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kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Mar 9, 2020 18:51:43 GMT -6
I don’t think you’re mixing anything up when it comes to Marty saying he had to go back up to Keddie. I always wondered if they didn’t suspect him at the time and then they kicked him out a day or two after, but I do think it is suspicious that he kept saying that.
I’m still in the fence on if he did it or not. Either way I know the guy was an asshole considering what everyone says about him (other than the murders)
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Post by kmik on Mar 9, 2020 20:06:00 GMT -6
TT, we've tried to list suspects and narrow things down but it's kind of hard since we really don't have all of the information and nobody's interview (except Marty and Bo's) - so we only have snippets of statements or reports written up. This is from FRB April 11, 2001:
Even though Josh was allowed into the Keddie Room to look at files he himself admitted he did not have time to go through everything.
To answer your question of if Marilyn was at Glenna Meeks house after Marty returned from Reno - to say for a fact we'd have to look at their interview. But yes you're not misunderstanding and Marilyn should have been at Glenna's house (unless she had gone of with Wade somewhere). I've never read a report from 1981 of Glenna telling the police what she told on the documentary and I'm going by Justin's hypnosis in saying the went to Glenna's house Sunday evening. I know we rely on alot of what they said on the documentary but what they told in 1981 is far more accurate than what they told 20 plus year later. The people who talked bad about Marty were the ones who believed what Marilyn was telling them. Marty wasn't kicked out of Keddie he left to go pull scams with Bo in Oregon (and told the police where he would be).
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Theories
Mar 12, 2020 12:26:05 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kmik on Mar 12, 2020 12:26:05 GMT -6
I’m sorry Kay I thought you meant he was kicked out of Keddie but you meant the Meeks house. If Wade and Marilyn were already seeing each other then yes they probably put him out and was possibly the reason they claim he was standing across the street threatening them. Glenn’s said in her old post she felt sorry for him
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Post by kmik on Sept 1, 2020 20:40:03 GMT -6
I must admit I have no idea who committed these murders. I have had plenty to speculate about but am now more confused than ever. I'd like to break it down:
Sheila Sharp had a baby at 14, allegedly fathered by family friend, Richard Meeks.
Tina Sharp had been molested about 8 months before the murders (or at least this is the only documented molesting)
Johnny Sharp was stealing, running away from home, and becoming too much for Sue to handle.
Sheila was often left in charge of the children (don't know who was while she was gone) because Sue was doing whatever with whoever, smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee, and sitting on the couch a lot.
The younger children were often out asking for food from neighbors.
The Meeks family was close to the Sharp family with Johnny staying a lot at the Meeks home and the younger Meeks boys going to his house (would this really have continued if there was a lot of friction going on between these two families).
Marilyn Smartt was allegedly confiding in Sue about her marriage although we have no documentation of that. What we do have is Judith Lynt on the record saying that Marilyn sought refuge at her home which we now know was cabin 16 and it was located in the Sharps back yard. This is the same cabin Frank Davis said Dana used to visit a lot. He said someone else lived there now (Mike Plyer and Barb)
Glenna Meeks met Marilyn (according to her post) while Marty was in the Reno VA hospital (regardless of where he was this was around the week of March 13 according to Dee Lake) and she met Marty and Bo when Marty returned home with Bo (around 3 weeks before the murders)
Miss XXXX comes forward with information that Marty and Sue were seeing each other. She saw his jealousy of Sue at school and at the Pioneer Bar (although we've never heard that from any other source)
Sheila sent Tina home to die even though Tina had been living under the same roof and same conditions as Sheila.
Sheila had no idea that Dana was spending the night with Johnny in 28 although she (according to Justin) raked leaves with them earlier that day and was also in and around the cabin until Johnny and Dana left in the afternoon. According to reports Alyssa had been seeing Dana for a week and could only see him at 28. We've also heard Sheila had been fond of Dana so I think it's a stretch to say that neither of the girls communicated with Johnny or Dana or asked what their plans were for that night.
Sheila conspired for weeks with the Meeks and a man/men (in need of money) that neither she nor the Meeks barely even knew (if Sheila even knew him at all) to kill her mom on a weekend night, with a resort full of people and a house full of children, and what was his/their payment to be?? Are we to believe that Marty and Bo did this because Sue was causing Marty problems or because Sue didn't want to go out with Bo? Then how and where are we to figure in Sheila? Then Doug Thomas (who was also in on the plan) covered for Marty and Bo, and called in Crim and Bradley (who also risked their careers to be part of the plan), because of Doug/Marty/Bo's (sorry but I'm lost on that one so we'll throw all 3 in) "drug connections" yet Marty and Bo were out pulling scams and working for the carnival later on and not out selling drugs?
I'm once again confused on who exactly wanted Sue dead. Sheila, the Meeks, Marty, Bo, Marilyn, Wade, Blaine, Dee, Tony, Doug T, Stoy, Wright, Shanks, Brubaker, the ME, Ronald P, and the list goes on? Can't be
And these murderers were protected and covered up for because why? It absolutely makes no sense.
This was a "preplanned" murder but the murderer(s) didn't even come prepared to kill? Which brings me back to have we really seen any " full page reports" or something other than handwritten scribble or second hand info? Hey this is what Josh did on the documentary - snippets - couldn't/wouldn't show the whole picture. Why not? I find that to be very odd - basically just revealing what he wanted people to see/conclude.
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Post by kmik on Sept 14, 2020 8:23:17 GMT -6
If you visit this forum or any other forum then chances are you're interested in true crime cases. I can't number how many times I've watched the police interrogate a person, that LE know full well was not involved in the crime, but they know this person is close to the person LE think is involved so what do they do? They start pointing fingers at the person they are interrogating as being the one responsible for the crime in the hopes they will break and tell what they know.
Who do we KNOW was in cabin 28? Ricky, Greg, Justin
Who claimed to have knowledge of what happened in 28? Justin
Who did the police continue to interview in the hopes of learning the truth? Justin
Who kept changing their story? Justin
Who was the closest person to Justin that he possible told an ounce of truth to? Marilyn
There is no way Justin went home on the morning of April 12, 1981 and didn't tell (even if it was his own version) what happened over in 28. I bet Marty and Marilyn discussed this with him all day. So the police did and said whatever they could to extract ANY info from them of what Justin had possible told them. There's little doubt that Justin was a troubled kid and Marilyn knew that and blamed herself for not taking up time with him and trying to help him. So if she knew he played any part (willingly or unwillingly) she probably tried to do what she though she had felled at doing before and tried to protect him by keeping whatever he told her to herself.
The FBI are trained in what they do and were well aware that no matter if Marty had 10 kids he himself said at the beginning of the letter:
Do you think the FBI read this letter and misinterpreted that Marty was referring to his "4" kids in the entire letter and thought he was referring to the murder victims? Do you really think they thought for one minute that Marty was saying he had given up Sue, Johnny, Dana, and Tina (four of the most precious things in his life) for Marilyn? Not for a minute.
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Post by kmik on Jul 4, 2021 6:54:33 GMT -6
This tv tray (lightweight) was between two beds in the girls room and used as a nightstand. It doesn't appear anyone was attacked in this room since there is a cigarette still in the ashtray. If this table was knocked over at anytime there would have been ashes all over. Wonder why we can only see a piece of this table where is the full pic? What is on the back of the table that looks like straw? Is that some of the cut cords that were not used? I wonder why the killer(s) cut cords from this room when there were electrical cords in the living room and kitchen.
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Post by kmik on Jan 27, 2022 20:22:42 GMT -6
Few thoughts on things that should be considered when thinking on theories - I'm not gonna add reports to all of these as many have been added multiple times already:
Tina: molestation report, alleged report of her asking another young girl to participate in soliciting sex, visiting the Keddie dorms, roaming Keddie unattended, street smart, is believed to have been taken or left with her shoes
Johnny: stealing pot, mouthy, ran away from home a month before murders, out of Sue's control, roaming and hitchhiking
Sue: left the kids home alone a lot, had dated several different men, dated one man who lived in Keddie and worked for the railroad and was at his house cooking him supper a few days before the murders coming home around 2:30a.m. on a school night, had lost control of her children and according to several people left the kids home alone many times, had offensive/defensive wounds
Knife: 2 knives left at the scene belonged to 28
Hammer: a hammer left at the scene belonged to 28
Electrical cords: taken from the girls back bedroom in 28 (although electrical cords were laying in plain sight in the living room)
Tape: Ricky Sharps interview: R: No. We had some... Tape.
C: Where was that at?
R: That was in the bathroom.
C: What kind of tape was that?
R: White.
C: Was it wide tape or narrow tape or?
R: [apparently gesturing] That... So...
C: Maybe half inch wide or something. Where was that kept, in the closet? I mean, the medicine cabinet?
R: yeah.
C: Was that a big roll of tape?
R: No... Kept very little of that tape.
Pellet gun:
On 5-14, Sue's sis, Jackie, said Sheila denied John had a pellet gun; however, Jackie recalled in Feb 81, when picking up Sheila, Sue told her she'd given him a 'pellet gun' (no mention of rifle). Both Holbert and her sis (in-law?) stated they thought John having one was a bad idea. Also, Sheila lived with her from Oct 80 to Feb 81.
If he had or had asked for a pellet gun then he knew what one looked like if someone showed up to 28 trying to intimidate them with one.
Sue's gag: consisting of bandana and panties that belonged to 28
The police had to look at the possibility that Tina was possibly involved in these murders whether willingly or forced and she is one person the boys would have covered for. It's been said that Justin (in his DT interview he said he didn't know what it was used for) and Ricky supposedly said they had seen Tina sleep under the large piece of cardboard laying on top of her bed - if true I find this extremely odd. My bedroom was across the hall from my older brother and I had no clue how he slept at night and my friends certainly didn't. If they were just hanging out with Tina before she went to sleep then they had no idea either. Justin gave a detailed description of the girls bedroom and closet which is just crazy.
To be honest I don't know how LE ever moved past the all of this - it's too questionable - but they did and investigated many PON's. If it's ever solved I believe the answer to who done it and why will be much simpler than we ever imagined or wanted to imagine.
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louie
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Posts: 29
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Post by louie on Oct 8, 2022 18:08:37 GMT -6
I've read everything I could find online- numerous forums, blogs, articles; watched numerous docus, listened to podcasts. Ventured onto redd*t... I only developed interest in Keddie back on Wednesday and that is a staggering amt of info to absorb, so i apologize if I come across like a dunce. Before this I confused Keddie w/ Cary Stayner and had seen an absolutely embarrassing vid by 'Dr. Grande' (I think he just rocked a wiki a few days before and went off memory. F*<+ it I suppose, wads of cash is wads of cash) Professor Horan suggested that Quincy-Burney Falls-Klamath Falls was a sex trafficking triangle dealing with minors, (the addition of Medford would make it a what?) John Boubede left for Klamath Falls after questioning and during an interview he offered up that he was impotent. Marty ended up in Klamath Falls and offered up all that stuff about how he'd have done it (his OJ moment) and the weird remark about Justin, (he's quiet enough to where he could have noticed something without me detecting him, [probably means Justin wouldn't have let on if he knew anything]) He's in the bar, making a scene, belligerently listening to Conway Twitty all dressed up like its the regal beagle. Absurd. Joel Lipsey was in the bar that night, apparently. Don Davis was in the restaurant (by the bar?) Daniel French had seen Sue playing pool [?] in Belden and might've followed her to Keddie and cased the joint. Sheila and Tina are surrounded by a crazy amount of pedo/hebephiles & convicted rapists of children. Jim Sharp was one of these types and Glenna Sharp went to live with HIS mother in Rolla, Missouri before going to her own family in Medford. Jim Sharp died there, in Rolla, in 2010- this is his deathday actually. You think Keddie is rural.. Anyway, Glenna ends up in Quincy and befriends Glenna Jewell Blanton Meeks. The Blanton's might be the most itinerant family I've ever seen, according to their family history. Sue Sharp seems to be a drug-addled shepherd. No one seems to want her or her brood and just sends them here & there. Sleepy Sue living on coffee and cigarettes. Don Davis really wanted Sheila in Medford. He seems to be the ultimo hombre. Apparently, there was a ranger banquet going on that night? At the banquet hall? They'd surely know about Camp 18. A lot of cops were there, supposedly? That night? Is that way off- there was so much going on at Keddie. It's like a speakeasy, or a meth lab, or a really perverse 'love shack'. Everybody is high on acid stolen from the HA, on meth; the place is just a locus of drugs and highly inappropriate sex. Marty and JB had some money to spend? Barely celebrated it, despite being dressed for an occasion. I think they were paid off, and planted Justin in 28 for some reason, maybe they were told it was about Johnny. It probably was. One of the pedos took off with Tina. But why did Marty and JB both end up in Klamath Falls? Its rural and out of state? Marty doesn't seem like a hebephile, the kind that would have uncontrollable urges, he was in love with Marilyn who was older than him (all these women are older than the men, except when they're adolescents) Jim Sharp married a Filipino woman and wanted two families? That's why Sue left? He wanted her gone. Didnt want Sheila or the boys. I know from my own experiences with these 'types' in Northern DE, that everyone is up to their neck in some godforsaken thing. This community is much more well off- Biden is 'from' there- but they act very much the same and live in relative squalor. Even the duPonts. White collar/ blue collar, its all the same shirt off their back. They just want to get inebriated off of something so their 'responsibilities' no longer nag and they can indulge in whatever sexual malpractice of their choosing. These are the leaders, believe it or not, the warlocks, their magical thinking usually casts a spell over the soldiers and merchants. They're not really even overtly malicious. They're like animals or twisted children. Sorry about that segue, just how I see it. Anyway, my theory is Justin was left 'in charge' so Marty and JB could go back to the bar. Earlier they had tried to get Sue out of the house, as a date for Bo. Marty thought Johnny was the target and got wind that he WAS (and he was.) Tina was ANOTHER target. I mean, just take your pick who had her in their sights. We'll never know until LE decides its Ok for some sacrificial wolf to be named, maybe even penned. The timeline is wonky but that explains the weird hammer blows, the weak stab wounds and the use of a pellet gun. There's the very real possibility Justin was molested, it almost goes w/o saying at this place. I think Marty and Bo were set up from the start, to be scapegoats. Maybe they went to Klamath to have an eye kept on them. Don Davis is the fulcrum. What even was he doing there so early? How much was Sheila involved? Was she in charge of Tina & Sue? Did Seabolt go 'cutting wood' prior the 12th and spend his day doing something else? Who was Jim Sharp's alibi? Does anybody know anything about the Davis family? Here's Joel Walker Lipsey's memorial site. www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/atascadero-ca/joel-lipsey-6582171, I mean Jeez, look at that life. But he WAS a registered sex offender who WAS in the bar that night? He died in Atascadero fwiw. Sorry if this is old news, just asking question might drum up conversation and fresh ways of looking at old facts.
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louie
New Member
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Post by louie on Oct 8, 2022 23:36:30 GMT -6
Just wanted to add something, to get off 666 cuz I'm schizo like that, that Sue Sharp is from Massachusetts and Vermont; her family is. Her sister Jackie was born in 1932 in Springfield. The Perraults were from MA; the Davis's from Vermont. I just find it odd she had the name Glenna. It probably means nothing, I'm just big on Rephaim. I wish I had money and wasn't on my mom's wifi (pathetic) or I'd hack into ancestry.com. Could probably be less lazy. I think its fascinating because the family ties are so strong. Nigh biblical. These people are always going up and down. The Meeks, those F'ing Meeks and Keddie. The ties that bind. I mean wtf was Don Davis doing there? 11th or 12th? Why did Glenna Sue go to her mother-in-law? I mean, Medford, yeah. Plumas... nah. It's pretty tho. Rolla, MO is way worse and she had left Jim in contention. Maybe she thought she could leverage grandkids? Who knows? Greg lives in Medford still; Did they all end up there? Jim Sharp goes to the memorial and then goes to Oregon, why? Sheila said he molested them and yet she wants to to live with him? What? Why is everyone a freaking sex predator? Coming into this case, it's the creepy sketches. You get a real 'The Pledge' vibe. What happened? You read up and its more like wtf was even going on. Don Davis, man, what was this guys deal? Downright managerial Marty was scared of Justin.. he and Bo seemed like big, giant pussies. The cords in the girls room were cut.. Was Sue tied up there first and got out? Cords in the den weren't cut.
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Post by hope on Oct 14, 2022 11:48:56 GMT -6
Dr. Grande's video sure was disappointing! I dunno I guess maybe we can cut him some slack, most people don't take the time to research further than Marty & Bo. Apparently Dr. Grande did the same lol. And kudos to you btw for taking the time to really dig into things. That's why we all ended up together. You laid out a lot in your post, there was just way too much going on, impossible to know what caused the horrible homicides to occur. There's definitely way more that MMB did it. Ken Mains did a really good job covering the case on his channel "Unsolved No More".
There was apparently some sort of USFD function at the Keddie restaurant that night. Those people definitely would be familiar with Camp 18!! That's never discussed. I've never seen it any of the released police reports. Back in the day a couple people commented being there in old forums or internet comments. Rod DeCrona said he was also there having dinner with his family but this was called into question for some reason.
You make some really interesting points. I don't believe M&B were responsible either, scapegoats yes maybe, I can see that. It seems they wanted to get tf out of Plumas asap. But at the same time they told LE exactly where they were going. Doesn't seem they were running from the law, were they running from someone else? They had been pulling those phone scams prior to the murders. A warning was even published in the FRB on April 1, 1981. We've speculated the money they had to spend at the bar was obtained through their scams. On the old forums, Marilyn said Marty shared the money he received from that with her. (People were trying to tell her Marty was a big time drug dealer and she asked "then why were we poor?" "Why didn't I see any of that money? He shared the money they got from the scams with me.")
But your thought about Marty being aware something was going to happen because of Johnny and trying to get Sue out the house. That is interesting. I do believe they asked Sue to the bar that night. Marilyn, Marty and Bo all mentioned it in their interviews - not sure if it's the reports released but Josh H said that story was consistent in all the reports he saw. And Marilyn told that story til the day she died. People say it's made up, a complete lie but I think there could be truth to it.
Justin, I personally don't believe he was involved anyway. I think he's been F'd basically. Between being the sole "witness"& LEs go-to for all the answers, hearing from Marilyn & the Meeks that Marty was responsible, etc. Once Marty & Bo were gone he'd have no reason to fear or cover for them. That's a lot of pressure for a young boy to not break. But the thing that gets me most is, if he had knowledge or was involved, no one saw signs of this? No one who was around when the homicide was discovered, neighbors, LE. After the murders he was put in "protective custody" and went to stay with a woman who worked for PCSO. What did she have to say?? I feel like he would have exhibuted some strange behavior if he was carrying the weight or knowing/seeing what happened? I should add, nothing would surprise me with this case.
Don't know much about Don. He did seem forthcoming with pcso when interviewed. Of course all of his interviews haven't been released but in one he straight up said "Johnny was not a good kid". He talked of the trouble he was causing Sue. His drug use. Sue had apparently been looking into drug rehab programs according to Nancy D. Although Don didn't believe he was into hard drugs he at least acknowledged he was heading down the wrong path. IMO there is so much information that purposely hasn't been released because it doesn't fit the MMB did it theory. And that's no help lol. Without knowing more about J&D and Tina....huge chunks of the puzzle are missing.
I do have a soft spot for all the victims of this case. There was a lot going on around them and in their own lives. There does appear to be an extraordinary number of predators or not good people in the peripherals. Why was Joel L at the bar that night?!? And why has that report never been released!?! Sheila I feel gets a bad wrap and I don't agree with those things. These things are long lost now, but when Josh ran the forums she was involved. She wrote numerous letters to people she hoped could help. They were published on Josh's forum and the responses she received (when she received a response). She contacted Vidocq and they were interested, but PCSO refused the help at the time. The takeover happened and there was preexisting bad blood between her and that person. Things are definitely a mess and it's a shame.
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Post by snoho17 on Oct 15, 2022 0:06:01 GMT -6
"But your thought about Marty being aware something was going to happen because of Johnny and trying to get Sue out the house. That is interesting." Same for me. It was talked about in the past that maybe Marty knew what was going to happen and was there "to protect Justin" but Marty trying to get Sue out of the house for her own good is a new thought to me. Tina didn't go home until dark, maybe it was assumed she'd in fact slept at the Seabolts. It'd take some pretty strong assurance, from some one he trusted, to believe his step kid wouldn't be hurt. Very interesting thoughts
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Post by kmik on Oct 15, 2022 9:16:57 GMT -6
A lot of good thoughts here but does anyone really believe Marty knew something was going to happen that night? I don't and if he ever really told that to anyone I'd chalk it up to him being a big talker.
I think we really overthink things when the truth is probably a lot simpler - but sometimes simple is not as interesting
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