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Post by kmik on Apr 1, 2018 19:10:09 GMT -6
I know DT there were a lot of things Sheila corrected Ricky on. I'd like to think that Ricky knew better where things were at the time of the murders since he had been living in Cabin 28 for about 4 months with Sheila only living there for about a month. I'd also like to think that Ricky would know more about their family life and what went on in that cabin in the hours leading up to the murders. So many have questioned how nobody in the neighborhood heard anything that night (aside from the scream heard by Mike and Barb if it had anything to do with the murders) but they think it's possible that Ricky slept through it (and he may have). As for Justin I can't imagine what he could possibly be scared of unless it's all the different "stories/dreams" he's told since the murders. I do not believe that he is waiting for his mom to pass so that he can tell the world she was involved in the murders.
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Post by Admin Horan on Apr 1, 2018 19:47:16 GMT -6
Well, my thing about Sheila correcting Ricky is this: At the time police NEEDED information from her, she "couldn't remember" or "didn't know" because she spent so little time in and around cabin 28 that spring. 20 years later, she has a photographic memory.
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Post by kmik on Jun 13, 2018 20:06:13 GMT -6
Justice I decided to reply under theories. I (we, Kmik still functions as two most of the time) don't really have a set theory. I moved from Marty long ago due to lack of evidence beyond wild speculation. Tony G has never been on my radar since he was never on the PON list. Mr. Seabolt? Not sure. Chuck and Henry? Yes because there are still a lot of unanswered questions there. But Tom really thought outside the box when he said (long before Dmac announced Justin's DNA at the crime scene) that Justin should have, at the very least, been considered a person of interest.
I believe somebody with a car had to have left 28 with Tina (willingly or unwillingly), the toolbox and the gun. We've all speculated on how the people in 26 could have been involved but so little have speculated on involvement from the people already in Cabin 28. You asked about the phone call from Marty but what (as Karis pointed out in her post) about the phone call to 28 around 9:00? Look at what all went down around that time. Tina is supposedly at the Seabolts, Sheila goes over to 28 to get some of her things, Paula and Pearl are out in the front yard and observe a van, then all of the sudden Tina is leaving the Seabolts going back to 28. Did Sue (after getting the phone call) tell Sheila to send Tina back home? I think it really boils down to being able to figure out what was going on in 28 between 9:00-10:30 before branching off into suspects. Why is it we really don't know? Why did a 1987 FRB article say that around 10:30 that night Sue ordered her youngest daughter home because she wanted her accounted for? One article said her whereabouts for the night were really unknown. Why is that? Dmac is sure Tina was taken only to throw police off the fact that Marty was really after Sue, but that doesn't make much sense considering there are a lot of unanswered questions surrounding Tina Sharp. Who would Ricky and Justin have covered for? To us the answer to that is Tina. It's not a popular subject but it is certainly one to be considered (start close to home and work your way out). But it's hard to get away from the people in that cabin when too much is still unanswered from within.
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Post by mamadawg on Jun 15, 2018 18:50:17 GMT -6
Kmik, I just don't think that Tina is the killer. What would the motive be? She was said to be very small for her age and killing her mom, her brother, and his friend seem far-fetched as I see it. Also, how in the world would she move all those bodies around? I think Tina was the target because she was the one removed from the house. If you remember, Justin was frantically telling the cops to look for Tina. It would also make sense for Sue, and the boys, to defend her, to the death. The confession to the therapist is kind of sketchy, but it was credible enough for investigators to check it out. Then there is the police interview with Marty. That comment he made where he said Justin "might have seen me". That to me is a head scratcher. If he wasn't involved, why would he say something like that? I find it intriguing that he made a big deal out of "losing" his hammer. Then what he yelled at Wade in the jail. Marty and Bo sure got out of town in a hurry. But if it was all about Tina, why the overkill on Sue? So many questions, so few answers.
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Post by kmik on Jun 15, 2018 21:39:20 GMT -6
MD, I'm not saying Tina was the killer but the killer could have been somebody Tina was seeing. Do I think Tina could have been involved? Yes I do. I don't know that - but it is possible. On an episode of Cold Justice, the lady that does the crime scene reenactment made a very real statement in reference to a case where the ex girlfriend killed her ex boyfriend and his girlfriend. I'm paraphrasing here, but she said, "you look at this 85 lbs girl and think there is no way, but if you knock somebody in the head the game is on". To us Johnny and Dana appear to have been knocked out while laying on the floor - unaware - without a fight. Just our opinion. But the medical examiner said no defensive wounds on Johnny or Dana.
We have no written statement (only Marilyn's memory) of Justin saying, "look for Tina down by the river". This was supposedly the day of the murders after he had already claimed to have slept through the night. Maybe Justin told Marty, Marilyn, and Bo that Tina could be down by the river, but we have no documentation of him telling that to Doug Thomas. And even if he did he was just possibly pointing out places that she might go.
Investigators checked out every lead that came in and not just Marty. That was their job and it appears they were doing it. There is very little doubt that when Justin went to the safety of his own home he told Marilyn, Marty, and Bo much more than we will ever know - and probably the very reason Marty said for him to quit talking about it in front of Casey. Justin talked about the wooden handle hammer in his hypnosis so I'd be willing to bet he shared that with Marty and Marilyn also.
Whatever Marty supposedly hollered at Wade in jail didn't scare Wade who had just hauled Bo to the bus stop himself. If he was scared maybe it was because he was seeing Marty's wife. Marty and Bo, according to Dee Lake and Marilyn in their statements, were already planning their "business" deals long before the murders. According to Marty and Bo's own interviews they were headed to Klamath Falls, Oregon - just where they told the police they were going and exactly where they went. Bo's great niece Princess said herself that they came to her home in Texas sometime after the murders. Marty only stayed for a day but her dad later ended up throwing Bo out because he found out about the scams. I think it's important for people to understand that Marty had lost his job at the restaurant, was not getting diagnosed with PTSD, this was the off season for the carnival (a job familiar to him) so he had to make money. He was scamming. If they were hurrying out of town it was to make money.
I have no idea if Marty is the killer but you are right there are many more questions than answers (about a lot of things and a lot of people).
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Theories
Jun 21, 2018 14:03:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by justice17 on Jun 21, 2018 14:03:15 GMT -6
MAYBE MARDE WAS A PEDO.? Honestly, Tina was an easy targetđ
There is also the possibility that Tina was pregnant and Marde was the Father. Maybe Sue repeated this to Nina Meeks on Saturday morning and then Nina called Marilyn? (Note Marilynâs wording in the documentary âyou go talk to herâ then corrects herself to âyou go ask herâ when stating they stopped by Sues cabin on the evening of the murders.
I wonder if he also tried something with Lori Gordon and thatâs why she left and even to this day has such hate for Marde.
.....just major speculations.
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Post by karis on Jun 21, 2018 15:49:41 GMT -6
We have had the same thoughts and questions as you. We even created a thread on 28 titled, "The Family in Cabin 26". Our biggest question was if maybe Marty was a pedophile. I think we really grasped at any straw (and people are still grasping at straws) to connect Marty to anything because then it would at least make sense as to why he would be involved. But the truth is that in 37 years nobody has ever come forward or posted on the forums anything to even suggest that he was a pedophile (you know like they did James Seabolt). So obviously he was not. If there's no evidence you have to move on. There was no evidence so we moved on.
Look at the people that pointed a finger at Marty and ask yourself why:
Marilyn: Maybe she didn't want her son to become a POI since he was in Cabin 28 and the only one that had "dreams"
Glenna M: Maybe she didn't want her son to become a POI since he was the father of Sheila's baby
Kathy B: Maybe she spread the "Tina being pregnant and Marty the father " rumor after Marty's became a POI (thanks to Marilyn) and to stop the police from continuing to question her about the boys coming to her house because she certainly didn't want to tell the police that her "friend" took the boys on home.
XXXX Bartender: She was more than happy to tell the police in 1981 that Karl was not at the bar and Marty and Sue were dating but she failed to mention THE most important thing: she gave the boys a ride home that night.
(If Kathy Beckly and her "friend" would have come forward in 1981 with the TRUTH then police could have possibly ruled out them being murdered by whoever gave them a ride home. How could someone not tell the truth with Tina Sharp missing??) Yet we are willing to believe them now?
If were gonna go with speculation then I would be willing to bet that the story of Marty saying, "If they're old enough to bleed, they're old enough to breed", was made AFTER the murders while they all sat around discussing possibilities of what had happened to Tina (cause I'd also be willing to bet Tina wasn't even a thought in their minds until AFTER the murders). Why would Marty say he killed Tina so he wouldn't have a witness yet 3 boys survived?? We've stayed with this long enough to say that the "evidence" against Marty Smart is speculation and we've considered the sources (which are very questionable themselves).
And I'll speculate further and say that If Ricky and Justin (who even 28 doesn't believe were asleep) would have talked and told everything they knew in the beginning then maybe it wouldn't have taken 3 years to find Tina. There isn't even any evidence as to the cause of her death.
I hope we are one day able to look at EVERYONE'S entire statement so they can be analyzed as hard as Marty and Bo's have been. Bet that would open up a whole new series of speculation and discussions.
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Post by snoho17 on Jun 27, 2018 21:03:35 GMT -6
Hi, New here and first post, Thank you for making this forum, as I have always had a interest in this case but felt my Ideas would be shut down or kicked off. Some ideas that have always popped up in my mind to ponder . Shelia had recently given birth and sent it away for adoption. Was this forced by her mother, did the Meeks not want this? Did Sheila show signs of post natal depression? Could this have been about Tina and taking her away to care for her because many felt her mother wasnât and post natal depression playing the part of wanting to protect the all the young children and no one stopping her? Did the Meeks family agree and help because of the new Meeks baby they missed out on also. This is why now even as adults Sheila still bosses the boys about . Were the boys maybe slipped sleeping tablets while watching Love boat and this is why Justin as mixed things up because his wasnât as strong so he slipped in and out of sleep . The blood on the boys room handle because the killers cared them into bed after the murders Another avenue that pops up In my mind could it be that Dana was the target? He seemed the most cared for out of everyone. Has anyone reliable confirmed they saw the boys after stopping at Danaâs foster parents house. Seems odd they told them they could go under 1 condition they donât hitchhik , but send them off without driving them or giving money for taxi or whatever. How did the expect them to get to the Keddie cabins? Foster parents can be brutal and also known to kill the foster kids. Did they actually drive them to Keddie and find out something Dana did and the punishment went to far ? Did they find out Dana was hitchhiking and drive to get him and he refused to leave and punishment went to far? Just some things that always pop in my mind Thanks That hitch hiking caveat always bugged me too
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Post by snoho17 on Jun 27, 2018 22:36:44 GMT -6
Did Tina leave to meet someone? Sue probably did sleep on the couch sometimes, and as 1 person I wouldn't bother folding it out either. But sheilas gone for the night so more space in the girls room. The only predictable sleeping arrangements were the young'ens. Just some musings
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 1, 2018 2:14:30 GMT -6
Oh how the wheels in this brain go round and round. I was one who originally believed Tina to be the primary target, then Sue, then the boys. Weird ass crimes can be committed for weird ass reasons beyond any theory that's been discussed. Wish my thoughts were a little more organized, but what I'm thinking is comparing each victim against traditional stats of victimology. 1) Families. When whole families are murdered the perpetrator is usually a family member or someone close. Bad business deals/partners, family beefs, and robbery are common 2) Sue, adult female. Over 50% of murdered women are killed by intimate partners. Of which, it appears as Sue may have had a few."In 10 percent of those cases, violence shortly before the killing might have provided an opportunity for intervention."** Stalkers should/shouldn't? be included as they can fully believe themselves to be in a relationship with their victims.University of Gloucestershire "found stalking was present in 94% of the 358 cases of criminal homicides they looked at. Surveillance activity, including covert watching, was recorded 63% of the time." 85% of the victims were killed in their home. The stats go up when others intervene and become victims also. 3) Should Johnny and Dana be classed together? Same demographics ie age range, dysfunctional families, possible drug dealings. The two differences I see are A-Apparently Dana was VERY sexually active (did Johnny date at all?) and B-Dana was a destructive 'lil shit. Teen boys seem to be killed over drugs, girls,faction/territory disputes, rip offs slights and fights.Young,dumb,and full of testosterone teen boys naively live life to its self destructional fullest. 4) Tina our wild card. Here I'm going to assume first that she too was a victim of homicidal violence. Over 50% of child homicides are committed by a parent. The runner up is associates of the child. Middle childhood is a time when a childâs homicide risk is relatively low. Homicides of children in middle childhood show a mixed pattern. Some result from child maltreatment and others from the use of firearms. Some are sexually motivated, and some are committed as part of multiple-victim family homicides.-DOJ I think we can possibly rule out Tinas (alleged here) murder being sexually motivated. As stated by others, Tina was not overly supervised. School was still in session it would have been easier to pick her up coming or going. She was in an exposed environment much of the time. But.....that being said, We've all heard of rare cases where a perpetrator waits for lights out and then steals off with a child in the night. Tina may well have been conditioned into an overly sexualized child. Pedophiles can smell that a mile away, they are sick opportunists. If Tina were to leave willing with an adult, I would assume some "grooming" to have taken place beforehand (any evidence of such?)... And 5) Supposing that Sheila herself could have been a target. She could fit into almost all of these scenarios. She's a woman/child, a wild rebelious teenager, and a sexual abuse survivor. Of women who were killed by partners 15% were pregnant or had RECENTLY GIVEN BIRTH. Now let me speculate wildly, Sheila seems like the one person that no one could have a motive to harm, but what if she was supposed to be the target of the kidnapping? I know I read scenarios where a perpetrator may have been planning to "save" Tina. Insert Sheila into Tinas victimology, does she fit? Just a few last ramblings 1) Murdered teenage boys are statistically killed by someone(s) over 18. I started with the family as a whole,then individuals, and lastly with the family. Can this crime be considered mass murder? If so I found this interesting from the NCJRS- Some 40 percent of mass murderers committed their attacks against family members and are often used to cover up other crimes. Mass murderers are more likely to be white, older, and male than single-victim homicide perpetrators. Mass murderers do not choose their victims randomly, but show a discernible relationship between victim characteristics and offender characteristics. Revenge is identified as the overwhelming motive in this form of murder, followed by love, profit, and terror."
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Post by kmik on Aug 1, 2018 22:11:41 GMT -6
Great post! Here are my thoughts on the possible target.
Sue: She was home alone every weekday with all the kids at school if anyone wanted to kill her in 28 or take her away and kill her. If her husband wanted her or the kids dead he could have killed them or had somebody kill them when they were in Connecticut (the first or second time).
Johnny: He was at school through the week and at the Meeks on Friday nights (roaming where ever he pleased). He literally roamed from morning till night on April 11th - Plenty of opportunities to hunt him down without going to 28.
Dana: He was at school through the week and, although he lived at the receiving home, had little supervision. That's evident in the documentary when his dad said he was about to be moved to a more secure home. He literally roamed from morning till night on April 11th - just like Johnny a sitting duck if anyone wanted him dead.
Sheila: She was at school through the week. She had only been home about a month before the murders so not a lot of time for someone to become obsessed enough with her to murder her family. As for the Meeks and the baby, I've never read that Richard had a hard time with her giving the baby up for adoption. I've also never read that Richard and Sheila were an item or in love with each other. I know they got together during the filming of the documentary but they are not still together. She said in her book they had sex and she got pregnant - no mention of them being in love.
Tina: She was at school all through the week and obviously was allowed to roam around Keddie. On the day of the murders she was home alone from around 9:00am till noon. Plenty of time to kidnap or lure Tina out of the house. My reason for believing she was the target is:
Doug Thomas said she was an integral part of the investigation. She was and still is.
She apparently had been sexually molested before. From the molesting report it appears that she did what she did for ice cream money (and I'm certainly not saying she asked to be molested - she was a child).
She did not stay at the Seabolts (for whatever reason) as she did most Saturday nights.
She was the only one missing from Cabin 28.
A knife, hammer, and electrical cord from 28 was used in the murders. The medical tape and gun has never been ruled out as coming from 28. She took a coat and shoes.
Sue was covered with a sheet and blanket that came from the girls room (Don Stoy said from Tina's bed).
Her good friend Justin was spending the night in 28 and is the only one who claimed to see/hear anything. But even he couldn't tell the police what happened to Tina except that he didn't know, or she came down the hall dragging a blanket (which is possible she did to cover Sue) or that he saw from a crack in the bedroom door 2 men drag her out through the kitchen (to which Don Stoy said that was impossible). Did Justin lie to cover for Tina leaving 28 with someone she knew? Is he still covering for her today because of the guilt he feels for not telling the truth to begin with?
John Douglas developed a criminal profile that listed Tina as the target. He's no idiot. He didn't develop this on lies fed to him by LE. He based it on their backgrounds and the crime scene.
*By the way Trish Pettis (who had dated Dana and knew Phillip) said the rumor was Tina hated her mom (just answering another post and nothing to do with me thinking Tina was the target)
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 3, 2018 20:54:41 GMT -6
I rewatched Joshs' doc again and noticed the neighbor "Frank" and his ex both alluding to MULTIPLE fights between Sue and a boyfriend.
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Post by kmik on Aug 3, 2018 21:21:09 GMT -6
Yes they make it appear that they both saw this fight that supposedly happened around 10:00pm on a Friday night. Just can't imagine that they were the only 2 in Keddie on a Friday night to hear this argument that supposedly took place in the front yard.
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Theories
Sept 30, 2018 12:21:07 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by louclou on Sept 30, 2018 12:21:07 GMT -6
Hello everyoneâșđ I'm new and was very sad upon hearing this from beginning 81. Somewhat personal connection, I was year older than Dana. There has been one thing that kept popping out to me. The sofa cushion under Dana's head (barely) I read somewhere placed (1-comfort 2-from care like Sue being covered) just a thought having 4 of my own. Teens/kids gathering on floor watching TV get comfy ntm hard lay flat to watch anyway, especially small space, more room laying lengthwise feet closest to TV. I feel it's possible they pulled it off sofa for that very reason. Maybe when they came in Sue got up to go to bedroom? Brought them the blankets? Her glasses on nightstand leads me think she at least was or had settled in along with robe hanging on closet door. There's also possibility they had just started pulling hide-a-bed out. Was there any blood on blanket & sheet covering Sue? How was it determined where blankets came from. JUST throwing out another. Dana & Johnny kicked back, intruder(s) enter, surprised or not tcb with them. Sue hears enters room, begins defending/trying help her son/ and Dana. She's overtaken, gaggad and maybe from pure evil & rage (impulse? planned?) try to rape her. Tina awakens, someone tends to her by leaving or who knows. Sue succumbs to injuries. Victim's/ things staged. Find what looking for (toolbox?drugs?) Before leaving turning Sue on her side (think read she was turned) with rigor beginning unable to do much else. Maybe at the very least, not knowing their thinking; me personally giving the respect she deserved possibly covering her also. Maybe so the boys upon waking would'nt see their Mom any worse than already was (not known awake or not?) Thank you for creating this forum I have enjoyed and been extremely interested in the plausible, reasonable and possible theories,t thoughts & idea's you intelligent people have!
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Post by karis on Sept 30, 2018 14:29:37 GMT -6
Hello louclou! Yes I too am glad for this forum. We can come here and discuss things without being called names. I agree with you on the cushion. I have 3 kids and when they are watching tv they grab a cushion off the couch. That is the reason I assumed the cushion was on the floor. I just think the boys came in, Sue went to her room, the boys start watching tv or listening to music ect⊠From there it is just anyone's guess. In my opinion, (and its just an opinion based on my being a single mother with 3 kids) something started within that house and it got out of hand. Teenagers often get involved in things or with the wrong people before the mother can get a handle on things. Situations can turn ugly fast. This family had problems. That is a documented fact. Sue's own sister-in-law stated that Johnny was out of control. Sheila and Tina had their own problems. That doesn't make this family any different from any other family or Sue a bad person or mother. And it does seem that Sue was target of this rage. There does appear to be a "cover-up" but I don't think it had to do with the police.
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