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Post by karis on Jul 20, 2017 11:32:47 GMT -6
We all know that the "Marty" theory is certainly the most popular theory. Your thoughts on the case Zodiac (although you have no theory set in stone) always encourage us to think outside the box. But one of the most interesting theories was posted on Keddie28 last year by a member named "racerkey" under "case files", "New Potential Evidence Collected".
His theory is that, according to the facts that we have, S. Howard and G. Mollath were involved in the murders. While there is really no info linking G. there was information possibly linking Howard to at least being someone who should have been (and hopefully was) questioned. Racerkey linked his theory together nicely with the information from police reports which were: a statement given to Mike Gamberg in 1989, that Howard knew Dana, the green pick up truck driven by Howard, Phillip's story (which always seems to have a ring of truth to it) of being picked up in a green pick up truck along with Johnny and Dana, the description of a man seen around Keddie selling wood given by Mr. Seabolt, and the great possibility of him being familiar with Camp 18.
It always seemed that Mrs. Meeks was throwing Marty under the bus to cover for her own, but she and her sis (Phillip's mom) were close. Whatever Phillip was telling his mom was, no doubt, being discussed with Mrs. Meeks. And while we still think she was protecting her own she quite possibly was also protecting her nephew by pointing the finger at Marty. From the dates on statements taken it appears that the police did not get interested in Marty until Phillip's story. It's very likely Phillip knew exactly who he got in the truck with and Marty may never have been in the truck with them. I'd love to know if Marilyn ever knew of Phillip's story before Josh posted it on the forum.
I think that Meanie discussed on her FB page (I know we discussed Howard on her forum) that S. Howard had lived in Keddie or was friends with the people that had lived in Karl K.'s cabin before Karl moved in. I will try to find that again, but the info Meanie gave was always pretty accurate. She once said the items scattered on the floor of 28 looked like items dumped from a gym bag. It's funny that Mike Gamberg's informant said Howard retrieved what appeared to be a duffel bag from her shed before he left her house. She said she had no idea what was in it or that it even existed prior to that.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 23, 2017 14:32:08 GMT -6
Well, Sheila has said that she was carrying some clothes and dropped them after she came through the front door, so maybe some of that was her stuff?
I think that a core of reports, statements, lab reports, etc have been kept back (and filed in a separate location in the building) for a solid legal reason: After all these years, a lot of the rumors and whatnot that are in the files we have seen are not necessarily evidence of any guilt, and therefore, leaking that information is not quite a violation of those people's privacy. But leaking the actual fingerprint reports, etc, would be putting incriminating evidence in the public view--and that would be a violation of those "suspects'" privacy (even if they're not guilty.) For example, if they found Walter Meeks's fingerprints on the TV, that does not prove he was there that night, but it's still seriously incriminating evidence pointing to a living person, so it would be a serious breach of the law to leak that report. But the ones we can see are not quiiiiiiiiiiite that incriminating--except against Martin and Bo, who are dead. So, leaking a report about PCSO looking into the Lynette Mollath murder is not quite a breach of Gary's privacy. See what I mean?
That's why I'm 99 percent sure the files Josh got hold of were leaked deliberately--nothing really crucial was included.
Last but not least, there's nothing surprising about all of these guys pointing fingers at each other, credible or not, whether they really knew anything or not.
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Post by kmik on Jul 24, 2017 7:20:25 GMT -6
Karis and I (and many others) have been pouring over all of this information for a long time. And while many of the things we have found are interesting we have no information that points directly to anyone else being in Cabin 28 but the people who were there. We agree that the police had specific files/tapes/info that they didn't mind Josh getting his hands on. There is no new information for us forum members - this is it. The only facts that we truly have are that Sue, Johnny, and Dana were murdered in Cabin 28,Tina was missing from Cabin 28 and found dead three years later, and three boys who were also in Cabin 28 survived these murders. That is all we know for sure.
We would be crazy to think that the PCSO allowed any real evidence they have or information on Tina to be given to an amateur filmmaker to solve this murder case that MANY Plumas County investigators had tried for years to solve. No doubt Mike Gamberg and Greg Hagwood would love to solve this case themselves (whether they are able to or not) so there is no reason to believe that they would give out any information that is really tied to their case. They KNOW we don't have all of the information so our digging and posting is not jeopardizing their case at all. What little they have told in their interviews is only to keep the public interested.
We enjoy. and will continue, pouring over all of this but we do understand that it is naïve to believe this case can be solved by using partial information that has been hand picked.
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Post by kmik on Sept 12, 2017 21:53:09 GMT -6
Karis and I have been pouring over the old post again because we love reading what people were saying back then. This is some of our speculation from what we have read.
Sheila's cousin credited herself with introducing Josh to this case and to the Sharp family. This would probably explain why he seemed to be mindful of Sheila's feelings during his work on the documentaries and his involvement on the forums.
Josh said in an old post that it was possible (even though he doubted it) that the police went through the files before they allowed them access to the Keddie Room. That is not only possible but probable. No information on Tina unless he had it and chose not to use it. The information the police gathered on her is so important because she was not left in 28. Nobody except Justin or Ricky (we suppose Greg was in bed by 8:30) know for sure if Tina came home and went straight to bed that night or if she ever came home at all. We have no idea if she was or was not involved in what happened in that cabin that night. Only Justin and Ricky know. The only story we got of Tina was from Justin saying she came down the hall and said, "what's going on?". Who knows if there is any truth to that? Maybe Sue came down the hall asking what was going on. Either way there is no need to debate that only 2-3 people know if Tina was or was not involved in what happened in the cabin that night.
For years people have continued to build and expand on the one sided information made available on the documentaries - absolutely no question about that. NONE. No need to waste time debating if that's true. They were doing it then and are still doing it today.
The police knew of and interviewed Marty Smartt in 1981. There is no way they have ANYTHING linking him to these murders (no matter if he did or did not commit them) except that his stepson was in the cabin that night and his wife tried to point the finger at him.
Justin is the one who had a dream but then claimed it was reality. Justin is the one who claimed to have gone into the living room to stop the bleeding on Sue's chest yet he never ran for help or woke up Ricky to tell him his mom was hurt? Justin is the one who claimed to "KNOW" what happened (we're guessing due to Ed Cates unlocking his memory) while Ricky remained silent. Why is it a common belief that Justin was "forced to participate" because of Marty Smartt? Why is it a common belief that he was "forced" to do anything if he really did anything? Why would Marty force him and possibly Ricky but kill Tina? Josh said Ricky supposedly told him once that he could be the key to solving the case. How can that be true if he was asleep and/or knows nothing?
What motive did Marty have for killing these people? James Sharp, Dan French, or Glenna/Richard Meeks had 10x the motive for wanting these people dead than Marty Smartt. What was his motive again? Sue's alleged rejection of Bo? Sue's alleged counselling of Marilyn? What was the motive?
Marty Smartt's file has been in the files since 1981, 1991, 2001, 2011, right up until 2017. Are we really to believe that he was not looked at? Did everyone conspire to cover up his involvement but left all of this info on him?? Just seems the PCSO threw some crumbs to Josh and Mike Gamberg is still throwing them. It has been implied over the years that Justin had a pellet gun. If this is true then why do we have to believe that the only way it could have come into 28 was by Marty? If he had one it must have never been revealed by Marilyn or Justin. Who would Justin lie to protect? Marty, Marilyn, or himself? Maybe Marilyn pointed the finger at Marty because she was worried that Justin was somehow involved? We have no clue if Justin was involved or participated in these murders. We know Justin was in 28 that night we just have no proof that Marty was. If he was the boys could have ended this nightmare by now by telling that he was. Or at the very least just by telling the truth. It's insane. We would love to know what Josh Hancock's true unbiased thoughts on the case are today!
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Post by Admin Horan on Sept 14, 2017 11:48:07 GMT -6
You make a GOOD point: How DO we KNOW if Tina came home or stayed home? She could EASILY have left after the boys went to bed...I NEVER thought of that...
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Post by kmik on Sept 28, 2017 20:50:00 GMT -6
Karis and I have been looking at the autopsy reports. What is clear is:
Johnny and Dana had NO defensive wounds and NO blood under their wrist bindings.
Sue had blood on the bottom of her feet, defensive wounds, and NO blood under her gag.
It's possible that Johnny and Dana came home, one grabbed the cushion from the couch, one or both threw their cigarette's on the couch, and then stretched out in the floor to watch tv (maybe even falling asleep) when they were hit in the head possibly knocking them unconscious. This would have allowed them to be bound before they were beat ,stabbed, and strangled. Maybe Dana came to, broke his binding, and possibly yelled for Sue causing her to come to the living room where she began to defend herself from an attack. That doesn't make her "the target" it means she walked in on this and was attacked. It does not appear that Johnny or Dana were able in any way to help Sue. She had no bleeding wounds on her face until after she was gagged with a blue bandana and her panties. It's hard to believe one or two grown men would fight with Sue without punching her in the face and busting her lip or nose enough to draw blood - but it's obvious she had no bleeding wound to her face until after she was gagged. Maybe while she was fighting, someone else hit her in the head to subdue her. If Dana was breaking loose and Sue was being attacked and bound who was restraining Tina? Who was making sure the 3 boys weren't going out the window?
In 2016 Mike Gamberg and Greg Hagwood made it clear that the evidence they have had led them to believe that the motive for the murders was related to the abduction of Tina. But did she leave willingly or was she taken?
We think back to Sheila's interview when she was asked how she thought Tina got out of the cabin and said, " what we had, I don't think it's true - but what my uncle thought that maybe she had seen Dana kill my mom and Johnny and she probably picked up the hammer and got Dana and then ran. But all 3 of their hands were tied or taped together so I don't think that would have happened".
While it is unclear if there were other weapons used besides the ones left behind, and because we have no idea what the other weapons could be, it is very possible that everything, right down to the blue bandana and the air rifle, came from 28. According to the Cabin walk through, neither Sheila nor Ricky knew what tools were in the tool box. How would they know if they had one hammer or two? We've always found it strange that anyone entered that cabin thinking they might have to bind several people but did not take the extra step to get something stronger to use like duck tape or rope. It's very possible the medical tape came from the bathroom of 28.
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Post by kmik on Sept 30, 2017 18:30:06 GMT -6
Another thing is that Johnny and Dana's hands were bound in the front and not behind their back (they would have been able to lift their arms up). So the idea that they would have stood against a wall while a knife was being thrown at them without lifting their arms up in defense doesn't seem logical - unless we are to believe one person held up an unconscious Johnny or Dana while another threw knifes at the victims (making the person holding them up a target also).
The holes in the walls possibly do not fit into the murders at all. Sheila had only lived there about a month and I'm sure she hadn't been inspecting the walls nor Ricky who I'm sure had no idea. Mr. Seabolt may have spent a lot of time inspecting these walls before the Sharp's moved in but I wouldn't bank on it unless it was obvious like the one by the door.
It just doesn't appear these boys went much further from the area in front of the tv - that "semicircle" area where everything is contained.
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Post by dyedpretty on Oct 24, 2017 5:18:20 GMT -6
Hi, New here and first post, Thank you for making this forum, as I have always had a interest in this case but felt my Ideas would be shut down or kicked off.
Some ideas that have always popped up in my mind to ponder . Shelia had recently given birth and sent it away for adoption. Was this forced by her mother, did the Meeks not want this? Did Sheila show signs of post natal depression? Could this have been about Tina and taking her away to care for her because many felt her mother wasn’t and post natal depression playing the part of wanting to protect the all the young children and no one stopping her? Did the Meeks family agree and help because of the new Meeks baby they missed out on also. This is why now even as adults Sheila still bosses the boys about . Were the boys maybe slipped sleeping tablets while watching Love boat and this is why Justin as mixed things up because his wasn’t as strong so he slipped in and out of sleep . The blood on the boys room handle because the killers cared them into bed after the murders
Another avenue that pops up In my mind could it be that Dana was the target? He seemed the most cared for out of everyone. Has anyone reliable confirmed they saw the boys after stopping at Dana’s foster parents house. Seems odd they told them they could go under 1 condition they don’t hitchhik , but send them off without driving them or giving money for taxi or whatever. How did the expect them to get to the Keddie cabins? Foster parents can be brutal and also known to kill the foster kids. Did they actually drive them to Keddie and find out something Dana did and the punishment went to far ? Did they find out Dana was hitchhiking and drive to get him and he refused to leave and punishment went to far?
Just some things that always pop in my mind Thanks
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Post by jmo on Oct 24, 2017 11:48:59 GMT -6
This forum is 100% more interesting than others. I love your post. This really is the place to kick around ideas. I also have lots of theories that I don't claim to be factual but I think it's necessary to be able to discuss them. I have read and reread your post and I am amazed at how many different ideas there are that make me say....Hmmmm....well, maybe...... It's just crazy. And, now I have another one to think about.
We've talked a bit about Sheila's baby. There are a lot of people that think this was ALL about that baby. So, if that is true, by process of elimination we can ponder the perps (and I use the term loosely meaning they knew something was going down) being: Sharps, Meeks, maybe a Seabolt or two? It would eliminate the drug theories which might include both Karl and Carl, any shady LE involvment, (I still would like to know who owned the white car...we have a make and model--and a lot of people saw two guys--maybe I'll get into that at some point and we can either go down that road or put it to rest). Could Sheila have had PPD? I think it's very possible. You cannot be 14, get dragged to OR from CA to leave it, come home, hook back up with the dad and NOT have some sort of mental breakdown. What I can picture is Sheila laying down with Richard Meeks again and asking why why why. Fourteen year old girls can be delusional when they think they're in love. JMO And, Mama Meeks always struck me as nice to your face sorta gal. Had to have been a mess. And, wasn't Sheila's timeline a little screwy with when she got pregnant? Baby born in Feb. so she must've gotten pregnant sometime in June? Where was Sheila in June? So many terrible men around those girls. It doesn't seem to me that Sue and Sheila were upset about giving up the baby. And, Mama Meeks didn't say much about it until at the memorial where she cracked a bit and went into her "we're so glad to have found you and we're so glad you're here and in our lives blah blah blah...Nice to your face stuff. I don't think she was even that "angry" about it. Wouldn't she have confronted Sue earlier? No reports of that~not even once as far as I know. Mama Nicetoyourface Meeks.
Were the boys drugged? Good question! Who would have had access to drug them? Sue, Sheila, Tina, Meeks, Seabolts, anyone else? I wonder if they remember actually putting themselves to bed. Anyone read anything like that in any statements? I think they said they "we went to bed (after a show)" so I assume they put themselves into the the bedroom? idk
Dana Dana Dana. What the heck were you up to? Maybe we should start looking at his life. (Notes. In no particular order.) He had three sisters. His mother was a drug addict. He was sent to live with his dad. He was involved in lighting a cat on fire. He was involved in slashing tires. He was diabetic. He was charming and was a bit of a lady's man. Was he a fighter? Some say yes. Some say no. He was 17 hanging around with a 15 year old. Was he teaching Johnny "the ropes". (We already know Johnny was bucking the rules--if he had any.) Did Johnny and Dana feed off each other--what one didn't think of, the other did? Dana was sent to foster care. He was to be sent to another foster care because (they couldn't handle him? He wouldn't follow the rules? idk) There was a sighting of three (boys/men) walking down the road....would Dana invite someone to Johnny's? Probably. They were planning on sneaking out later that evening. Totally get what you're saying about foster care parents. Ummmm....sometimes not the best parenting skills. When the foster dad was filmed he acted so (nonchalant?) and almost like Dana was (expendable?). He accepted his check without taking any responsibility. And, yes--another good point you made: They allowed them to walk all around town and in between Quincy and Keddie to see what kind of trouble Dana could get in but nobody offered to give him a ride or tell him to stay home? Sounds like they were just biding their time, waiting for Dana to move on and be somebodyelse's problem. I do think there were enough sightings to believe the boys left the foster home of their own accord. Could the foster dad have shown up at Sue's to bring Dana home? Sure. But, he was pretty uncaring right from the get go. I don't think he'd go looking for him. JMO But, even if he did, it wouldn't explain Sue's gags and Tina being fully dressed and gone. I don't see foster dad thumping anyone in that house with a hammer. Could I see Dana or Johnny or Justin or Tina thumping someone with a hammer? Yes. Somebody IN THAT CABIN started this ball rolling. Could it have been Dana? Absolutely.
This crime is so brutal. GagS, kniveS, hammerS, pellet gun, tape, wire, physical in your face violence. Two different knots. Crazy stuff. Can somebody wake up one morning and snap? Oh, for sure. But, doesn't this seem like a crime that someone with a little (experience in violent behavior) did? Dana with his cruelity to animals and vandalism was on a very rough path, but the people that did this had already been down that road and my guess is they had a long criminal past before April 11, 1981. JMO
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Post by kmik on Oct 24, 2017 15:24:18 GMT -6
DP, we don't mind discussing anything or any theory because none of us were there and have no idea what happened. Hope you feel free to share your thoughts.
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Post by jmo on Mar 2, 2018 23:45:16 GMT -6
"I recieved the attached record of phone numbers called from the Sharp residence in Keddie prior to the murders 4-11-81.
1. Phoenix AZ Tonia Lancaster friend of Sharp family. 2. New London Ct. Jim Sharp childrens' father. 3. Gulfport MS Opal Spears friend of Glenna Sue Sharp. 4. Murphy OR Gail Daly Sue's niece. 5. OR Jackie Holbert Sue's sister.
"These are all the numbers called from the Sharp residence at Keddie for one month prior to 4-11-81.
SOMEBODY CALLED DEAR OLE DAD.
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Post by Admin Horan on Mar 3, 2018 10:48:14 GMT -6
JMO: Weeeellll done. Very well done. And not only do we need to look into just who Dana was, we really need to look into who all the victims were. For example, as we discussed in the podcast, I don't see a Sue who "ran away from" Jim Sharp. I see a Sue who was kicked out by Jim Sharp, and apparently, shunned by everyone else on both sides of the family. Dana knew every drug dealer in Plumas County by face and by name. Don't tell me he wasn't pressured into informing for PCSO. And that's either DeCrona, or Gamberg, who were on opposite "teams." And Gamberg is the one who shoots his mouth off about being close to Dana. Sooooooo....
There are/were THREE families clustered together in certain cities in Oregon--the Davises, the Sharps, and--the Easons. Sue did NOT "run" to Oregon. She ended up in Plumas, an absolute dead end, and stayed there, willing or unwilling, until she died. Justin was NOT sent to Oregon when his dad got sick--he was sent to Plumas. His mother shipped him back to Montana after the murders, then had to take him back after his dad died. Apparently, the relatives in Oregon didn't want him.
The really funny thing is, after Sue died, Jim Sharp still had legal custody of the surviving kids. But, apparently, he didn't want them (and the military HATES to hand over custody of dependents, ESPECIALLY the dependents of officers. Aaaaaallll Jim had to do was say, "I want the kids," and he would have gotten them.) Sooooooo, once Sue was dead, Sheila ended up moving back to Oregon, living close to her baby, after all. You might even say that the only person who apparently "benefited," so to speak, from the murders, was Sheila Sharp. A really cynical person, one who has had one toe in the filthy, rotten business of homicide for over 30 years now, one who has learned, over and over, not to make the mistake of feeling sorry for victims and their families, might be tempted to call that a "happy" ending.
Happy or not, it suuuuure is funny.
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Post by jmo on Mar 3, 2018 12:45:43 GMT -6
And, Jim Sharp married very soon after. Thoughts: Did his new wife not want his children? Better he be a "victim" and a widower than to pay for 5 children that he didn't give two sh*ts about. I know the military put a tail on him, thinking he had Tina.
The family photo, was taken around 1975, when they were stationed at the nearby navy base and living in Gulfport, MS. Gulfport was a favorite spot of Bo's. He had nearby family, and was an in-patient at the Gulfport VA right after it's believed he and Marty got together for what appears to be their last crime wave in 1988, on the East Coast. So, maybe Jim knew Bo??
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Post by jmo on Mar 3, 2018 13:05:09 GMT -6
Calls made from the Sharp home (1 mo prior to 4-11) Friend in AZ, Tonia Lancaster Father Friend, Opal Spears Sue's niece, Gail Daly Sue's sister, OR It really bothers me that someone from that house called The Father. He was a terrible, abusive, military man and Sue did NOT want their location known. Did Tina call him? She was (by all accounts) his favorite. Sue's niece. Is that on her side or his side? Did Sue get "ratted" out by someone? (location) He just needs to know you and the kids are okay...well okay...don"t tell. I wonder if his family ever suspected he had a hand in this? Was Tina dressed and ready to go? Both girls always stayed next door on Saturdays. But, not THIS Saturday. And, Dad didn't care one bit about those boys. Not one bit. Conversations: 1. Sister: Ok. You're settled. Be safe. I will. 2. Niece: Yes, we're fine. You're family. Love you, too. 3. Friend: Blah blah catch up talk. 4. Father (WTH?) 5. Friend: He found us. Plan B, Another move in store? Military boots. Glasses. Maybe they were supposed to go in, kill Sue and get out. (Make it look like a home invasion?) But, Tina was waiting. With her box. And, the boys came home. And, Sue even had extras. Tina did dishes. Helped with the lawn. Took it well that she couldn't stay next door. Went to bed. (She wouldn't be the first kid to crawl into bed fully clothed, waiting for Mom to fall asleep.) This little girl would have no idea who was taking her "to her dad", but she hated Sue. Did she try to run when she saw what was happening? Blue bleeds blue. And, military men stick together. If they needed to kill Tina to cover their tracks, they could and they would . Who's gonna tell? Dad? No. He'd go to his grave with that info. "WHO IS THIS?" Was someone making sure Sue was home?
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Post by jmo on Mar 3, 2018 13:09:40 GMT -6
And, another thing I would like to prove/disprove: How exactly (and, once again not a "Davidsaysit'ssosoit'sso") did Marde and Bo meet? What did Marde say? He met Bo at the VA? I'm just wondering if Dee had "run into" Bo before Marde "met" him. He was back and forth to the VA a lot. Which leads me to: Did Bo know James? Or, did James know someone that knew Bo? That sure would tie things up in a nice little bow. Maybe we need to K.I.S.S. **810331 Dee brings Marty back from Reno. With them is Severin John (John S) "Bo" Boubede. March 31, Bo gets to Keddie. And, in 11 days a mother and two children get murdered and there's a missing 12 year old? Were Marde and Dee, Bo's dupes??? For all we know, James might have thought his whole family would be home. Just them. We don't know. Gotta get rid of this woman she's ruining my life. I know a guy (Bo) who knows a guy (Dee).who's friends with a guy (Marde) who lives across the street. Too simple? The plan: Get in (knock knock) get out. Only problem is, Bo wasn't very good at his job. He thought he could just call and make sure Sue was home (who is this?). I'd give my eyeteeth to see #26's outgoing calls that night. Sheila: Sue always just slept on the couch. (Bo, you dirty window peeper.) But, not this night. And, then all hell broke loose when the boys walked in. But, it paved the way for James to marry Helgah in July 1982. Who knows? Maybe Helgah didn't want his baggage.
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