Dmac said in a recent post that Richard made this box at school and it had a hole in the top where someone had stepped on it and it doesn't appear to have a top in the pic. It's big enough to carry out a hamster but no matter if she took it or it was put back in it's cage this could be what started the whole thing and the cat could have even been part of it also.
Ricky described this box for police to draw this picture and apparently Richard Meeks told police that he (Richard) made the box at school and at some point gave it to Johnny. I don't believe Tina was ever attached to this "box" but maybe she was attached to whatever was put inside the box
Play along with me on this one... the pile of clothing (another stumper at the crime scene) perhaps an attempt to catch/ stop/ corral a hamster that was lose and running around the cabin?!
At the very least, the presence of animal hair on Johnny should/might indicate that he was on the main floor of the cabin when the violence started... he didn’t rush in from downstairs or walk in from being dropped off and was ambushed. Thoughts?
great thought raemen. Now I don't know anything about hamsters. I would have to google them to find out! Do cats eat hamsters? Was it a game between the cat and hamster(s) the boys started? The clothing on the floor (meanie posted this way back and it made sense to me) looked like it was where someone emptied a gym bag on the floor. But i could have been used as you said.
I have never believed those boys were sleeping in that cold basement that night. (That was probably a hangout room. I don't believe Sue could afford to completely furnish the downstairs. But in the younger boys bedroom was a cot and bunkbeds.) Both boys had a laceration on the back of the head. They could have been knocked out quickly by one or more persons who picked up a hammer and hit them. Not intending to kill them just stop them. But then Sue woke up.
Yes Ramen I think anything is possible and Jdub I too think a cat would eat or torment a hamster. This scenario would at least explain why there was a sudden uproar in the cabin that night. And yes Ramen someone was probably summoned to help and I think this is where the police get stumped - I believe they think this started within with the people already in 28 but they just can't nail down who came over to help.
Dmac may have to change the name of his book to : "In the Shadow of the Cat" or "Uncaged"
The first time I ever witnessed a parent other than mine get angry involved a gerbil ( bigger than a mouse, smaller than a hamster ). I was 12 and my neighbor had 2 gerbils ... we took them out of the cage to play and one of them tumbled from my friend’s hand. That little bugger took off like a bat outta hell, ran into the kitchen and made a bee line for the fridge. There was a lot of screaming and crying (my friend and I) trying to catch it and a lot of cussing... her Dad trying to get the gerbil out from under the fridge without hurting it, which was a long and tedious process. Just saying... when you’re a kid and you love a pet, emotions can run high!
I believe this diagram is of Johnny based on his autopsy report:
"Beneath the wounds labeled 5 and 6 on the diagram on the left side of the individual's head exist 2 round depressed skull fractures. Each is 1/4 inch across, and they are connected by an isthmus of fracture which is also depressed and is approximately 1/4 inch wide. The depression of the superior fracture is 1/2 inch. Brain tissue is protruding from this superior fracture."
I don't have the photo in front of me, but as long as we're going down this path, Johns' hands are clasped together in the pics. Dana's broke free, sue's are stretched apart as if trying to break free. In this scenario Dana and Sue are resisting and John is passive. Like he didn't know what was coming?
Yes, I see what you're saying. That photo of Johnny's hands stands out to me every time I see it. Almost relaxed or peaceful, which is the exact opposite what was occurring : ( I'm going to spend some time revisiting all those reports.
I'll jump over here to post a few things I've found interesting. Re: Knife attacks "Knife attacks don't last long
Indeed, the average incident time (i.e. arithmetic mean) for knife attacks, from the moment the attack is launched to the moment it stops, is 23 seconds.
"The time frame of a knife attack is usually very short - it is often over in a matter of seconds" Don Pentecost
The median time is 14 seconds which means that half the attacks last 14 seconds or less.
But 80% of all attacks last less than 32 seconds:
"The majority of attacks are carried out using a regular grip (58.8%) but the reverse grip (also known as "icepick grip") is, at 29.9%, more frequent than commonly thought.
In a small number of cases, around 6%, the aggressor changes his grip during the assault, moving from regular to reverse or vice versa. "In other words:
you will be taken by surprise and you will be overwhelmed by fear and aggression
you won't see the blade before the attack is launched
you very likely won't be able to run away and avoid the attack
you will have very little time and space to react and deploy a counter-attack
you probably won't be able to stop the first stab(s) so, yes, you will be you will be cut and stabbed a number of times but you might not even realise you've been stabbed (which is why you should always check yourself for wounds after a physical confrontation)
you probably won't have time to draw your own weapon (gun, knife, kubotan keychain, pepper spray, etc); at least not before being stabbed a couple of times
you will be likely moving backwards, your balance will be compromised, and you'll probably fall to the ground
your movements will be restricted, your fine motor skills will be gone, you won't able to access the knife bearing arm easily
any technique that is based on smooth arm deflection and manipulation has very little chance to work
any technique that rests on the assumption of a single straight thrust ('full-stop one-step zombie attack') or a wide sweeping slash has very little chance to work.https://www.urbanfitandfearless.com/2016/09/self-defence-against-knife-attacks.html
I had to transcribe this. From "Self Wounding of Assailants During Stabbing And Cutting Attacks" Jim Varnon, Max Courtney, and Thomas R. Ekis
Mechanisms for self wounding
Mechanism 1:While stabbing the victim, the assailant hits bone or otherwise resistant material. The abrupt stopping of the knife causes the assailants hand to slide forward, allowing the hand gripping the knife to slide across the blade. Such a scenario typically would cause a slicing of the palmar surfaces of the hand or fingers. If the attack continues after the hand is cut, the presence of the assailants blood on the knife handle reduces the gripping ability further, making multiple self wounds likely.
Mechanism 2:If the assailant weilds the knife in one hand and tries to restrain the struggling victim with the other, it is possible that the assailants hand on the victim will suffer a wound during multiple thrusts. Such a wound would commonly be seen on the back of the hand or fingers or on the arm of the free hand.
Mechanism 3: If a folding knife without a locking blade, such as a jackknife, strikes a resistant surface, the knife blade can fold across the assailants hand. Such an event would typically cause a guillotine like knife edge wound, either across the outer surfaces of the fingers or across the wrist or heel of palm, depending on the knives orientation.
Mechanism 4:Due to the great momentum involved in a typical stab, the knife maybe capable of becoming lodged in bone or connective tissue. If the assailant attempts to remove the knife during the continued struggle, it is possible that the hands could grasp the partially exposed blade and cause slicing wounds to the palmar surfaces.
Mechanism 5: In a slashing action with a knife or other sharp weapon, a glancing blow against a victim or a complete miss may, by the weapons momentum, cause a slash injury to the assailant. Because of the virtually limitless degrees of freedom in how this slashing motion delivered to the victim, the resulting injury to the assailant could occur to almost any part of the assailants anatomy. *We know bone was hit, skulls and ribs*
Mechanism 6: Similarly, defensive actions by the victim may cause a redirecting of the weapons arc into the assailant. Again the variety of possible movements makes for limitless lists of injuries possible.
Mechanism 7:In a struggle for control of the weapon, the assailant may grab for the weapon, resulting in slicing wounds to the palmar of the surfaces of the hand or fingers of the assailant.
Some of these mechanisms are directly related to the design of the knife. The absence of a guard between the hilt and blade certainly makes mechanism 1 more likely. Also, the absence of a bolster on the end of the hilt would make the extraction of the knife from the victim more difficult, possibly begetting actions similar to mechanism 4. It would seem likely that, in some instances, a description of the wound types could be correlated with the weapon.
Potentially valuable evidence can result when such an event occurs. If the evidence is recognized, documented , collected, processed, and interrupted information regarding the assailant and chronology of events may be available. Three distinct areas of inquiry are worthy of consideration.
First the knife, the serological testing protocol should allow for the possibility that there may be blood present from more than one individual. Photographic documentation of the visible bloodstains prior to removal is recommended.
Additionally, the suspect should be examined for cut or stab injuries that would be consistent with the weapon utilized. Such injuries should be documented with photographs. Even if the medical need is marginal, additional documentation by medical expert who can accurately describe them may be able to gauge severity, and estimate age.
Finally, the crime scene should be carefully searched for bloodstain patterns that are consistent with a bleeding assailant. Patterns away from the location of the victim, patterns out of the normal traffic patterns, and patterns consitant with cast off stains are the best possibilities for the identification of the suspect and also may provide vital information about the movements and actions of the perpetrator during the events in question. A useful reconstructive analysis of the crime scene will, of course require documentation of the bloodstains that are present. All blood stains that might conceivably have any bearing on the interpretations of events should be collected and submitted for analysis.
Last Edit: Sept 11, 2021 20:10:35 GMT -6 by snoho17
True that getem. I got a small gun gifted (all legal beagle) because concerned family members were worried about me hiking trails alone. Alot of weird stuff happens with people getting their cars broken into, ambushed and robbed, or straight up killed in the low to mid hills. I still definitely feel more secure with my knife in these settings. Like I told a friend, if someone were to jump out of the bushes what's my reaction time with either weapon? Longer with a gun, and clumsier in close quarters! Probably makes for a good visual deterrent at least. I do want to go back over those injuries and splatter with a fine tooth comb, but I'm hoping to enlist the help of someone who has (much) more knowledge than me once they get back to the area. I was really hoping to find some diagrams or photos of offender self inflicted wounds, its weird there's not much out there!
I think it's a good question. It's obvious there was a hamster cage in the living room so where did the hamster go?? Was this the hairs found on Johnny and Dana? Sue's kitchen counter appeared to be tidy so I'd have a hard time believing she left an empty hamster cage just taking up space in that cramped living room.
I've almost responded to this about a hundred but then I squirrel away as is my wont. The hamster cage looks like it got a good dose of fingerprint dusting. From a color pick the top is clear, in other pics its absolutely covered. So I think the police were also interested in the hamsters fate.