What are your guys thoughts on those bruises? Anyone else not buying that they were caused by the table leg? It's hard to believe the killers would take the time to rip the leg off that card table and use it as a weapon. In the middle of everything going on. And we know Dana was still breathing when those wounds were inflicted, since there was hemorrhaging. Definitely was not done post mortem.
Why take the time to do that (I also don't believe weapon 4 was used to cover up the fact a gun was involved in the murders). Its more likely weapon 4 was a weapon of opportunity, something else from inside the cabin that was easy to grab. Or something the perps brought with them and took, along with the air rifle, when they left.
I've wondered if it was a baseball bat. If the perps brought the pellet gun and then took it with them, why not a bat as well. We've talked before about how it looks like a gym bag was dumped out in the living room. That'd be the perfect size to remove the gun and a baseball bat.
I'm out of the loop, the table leg hid a gun? On the Interior Photos thread Kmik and I had this exchange "We've discussed how it appears as if a gym bag got tossed, I just noticed the baseball down from Dana's left hand by the wall. Tossed gym bag, stolen tool box, someone was definitely looking for something... kmik
Jul 21, 2021 at 4:54am via mobile QuotelikePost OptionsPost by kmik on Jul 21, 2021 at 4:54am Don’t it just make you wonder,”where’s the baseball bat”? snoho17 Senior Member **** Jul 21, 2021 at 9:32am Jul 21, 2021 at 9:32am Why yes it does kmik!" So I'm kinda circling back today, and zigzagging.
Posted by snoho17 I'm out of the loop, the table leg hid a gun?
A few years ago, weapon #4 / the table leg was discussed on keddie28. It was said that was used to disguise any wounds made by the pellet gun. To cover up that a gun was involved in the murders.
It could have been the barrel of the gun that left those bruises.
But all those items tossed around the living room, it definitely looks like a gym bag was dumped out. That out of place baseball, the red & white shorts, white & red tube socks, Rick & Justin having baseball tryouts that morning. Could they have taken a duffle bag with them to try outs?
Yeah, that is true. Very good point. So, it would have to be the thin side of butt connecting the skin in order to leave that sized bruise. I need to go back and read exactly what the ME said. Was the bruise on the L/R buttock straight across, one strike hitting both cheeks? There was at least one on the back of his thigh too. I measured my kids wooden bat and it's 2" in the mid to upper mid section. I was expecting it to be wider. And the legs of a folding table I have measured 1".
Snoho, did you read anything re: width of bruise in comparison to width of the weapon in tramline bruises? From what I've come across the bruise is typically the same size as the weapon. I know bruises are usually larger than the object that caused them but that appears to not be the case in tramline bruises.
The posterior aspects of the body are unremarkable except for 2 roughly rectangular zones of bruising over both buttocks. Each is approximately 2 inches in greatest dimension, and on section hemorrhage is present in the underlying fat. Also present on the posterior aspect of the left thigh in its mid upper portion exists another
2 inch zone of roughly rectangular bluish-red oozing which also shows underlying hemorrhage on section.
Almost all of Dana's injuries were inflicted from behind. Attacked from the back and never had a chance to defend himself. Severe blunt force trauma to the back of the head and left side of the face, strangled from behind, struck in the buttocks from behind. But what sequence did they occur? Kmik & Karis have mentioned it looked like J&D came home, grabbed the couch cushion & laid on the floor to hang out, watch tv, go to sleep. Johnny also had a pillow underneath him. Were they sleeping & someone snuck in and attacked them? Or were other people in 28 hanging out with them that night. Then for whatever reason attacked Dana when his guard was down or once he had fallen asleep?
Need to go back and read the full report but I'm thinking strangulation was done last. Head injuries first, unexpectedly from behind. Perhaps he tried to get up after the initial blow, onto his hand and knees, and that's when he was struck in the buttocks. Assaulted some more and then strangled because he was still alive. So sad to even type. But that could explain why Dana had zero defensive wounds and why his bindings were not like the others.
Johnny would have been alerted/woken up (if not attacked at the same time as Dana) but quickly subdued by another perp. And he would have been outnumbered, 2-3 against one. He had the one bruise on his knuckle and the hairs in this hand. So perhaps he was able to get some hits in. Sue hears the ruckus and comes out to the living room, scream heard could have been hers. She steps in the blood. Now the perps either have two people to deal with or a hysterical mother if Johnny was already gone. So they gag & bind her. Bind Johnny and if he is still mobile, perhaps that is why they bound Johnny & Dana together. So that Johnny could not get away. Tina walks out at some point so now they have 3 people to deal with. The perps have the hammer, air rifle, & maybe a baseball bat and use those weapons on Sue and Johnny. But when taking longer than they wanted, this time instead of strangulation they go to the kitchen and grab the knives.
P.S what is that white fabric(?) on the couch cushion, that was underneath Dana. It is in the photos after Dana was removed. Can anyone tell what that might be? Maybe a t-shirt, a dishtowel? Could that have been use to strangle Dana? Why was it there?
fractures may be present (Figure 9.4). The butt of a rifle may also be used to beat a victim. Figure 9.5 shows an individual, who after being shot, had his jaw broken with the butt of a .22 rimfire rifle.
Last Edit: Sept 3, 2021 16:34:51 GMT -6 by snoho17
Jesus Christ, that video! Ouch. What type of person would be aware of/know how to execute that maneuver? Specifically while holding a weapon. Military? LE officers?
Great info on the triangular wound. Once you know, it's obvious. Can see the matchup between the weapon and the wound. Thanks for that! It's been a while since I fully read each victims autopsy reports. Going to revisit them, you've reignited my interest : ) While you're in your deep dive, do you have any thoughts on what caused the small puncture wounds to Johnny & Sue??
Yes, I think you may be on to something. They both had severe lacerations to their ears. I know Dana's was almost tore off along the back of his ear, along the crease. I used to think those was from hammer hits to the side/back of the head. But that maneuver matches their injuries, especially Dana with the ear laceration,severe jaw fracture, and damage to his mouth & teeth. Those all occurred to his left side.
It flashed through my head too, snoho : ( That may have been the first blow to set things off. Or at least the first blow Dana received.
Someone also had a triangular laceration, but I forget which victim.
ETA: It was Sue who had the triangular laceration
A skip zone is present between the ear and the scalp portion of the wound. A 3/4 inch laceration is present in the mid occiput posteriorly. It occurs approximately l inch above the ear level. It is triangular in shape.