Post by Admin Horan on Jun 5, 2017 11:16:51 GMT -6
This is a transcript of the second hypnosis session with Justin Eason in May. In this session, Justin no longer talks about a dream he had on the morning of April 12. This time, he "remembers" waking up and sneaking out of the boys bedroom and witnessing part of the crime. In this version, he changes his description of the long-haired suspect to "blonde," but otherwise, stands by the descriptions he gave of the two "suspects" in his first hypnosis session about the "dream." There are several problems with this "memory" of Justin's:
1. Long, BLOND hair was found in Johnny's hands at his autopsy--a fact not known to Doug Thomas the first time he hypnotized Justin on April 13 (according to a story in the FRB, that session definitely took place on April 13, NOT April 14.) Did Thomas accidentally prompt Justin's "memory" on this point? We don't know.
2. There is no way any of this story can be true, according to the physical evidence, and even the floorplan of the cabin.
3. Because Justin's descriptions, and the composite sketches made based on those descriptions, were originally based on a "dream" he had, the sketches were not made public. The day AFTER Justin "remembered" this version, the sketches were made public. The ONLY change made was the long-haired suspect now had "blond" hair.
The "dark" haired version looks exactly like Gary Mollath's yearbook photo. The "blond" haired version looks exactly like Cary Walke, Chuck Walke's brother. Apparently, NO ONE on dmac's or Mean Kitty's boards ever heard of Cary Walke, but he is a convicted pedophile.
Dr. Dash hypnosis session
PCSO Report wrote:
Dr. Dash: Today is Tuesday May 19th, 1981 and my name is Dr. Jerry Dash. I am a psychologist licensed in the State of California. I practice at Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles and in Burbank, California and we’re here today in the office of Sheriff Thomas in Plumas County and we’re in his office and he is here with us behind the camera and also we have with us on camera a 12 year old boy whose name is Justin and Justin what is your last name?
Justin: Smartt.
Dash: Justin Smartt. And Justin has talked to the Sheriff before, has been hypnotized by the Sheriff before and the reason he has asked me to come up and do some additional hypnosis with you Justin is to see if there are other things that you might remember about all the things that happened that you have talked about so far on the night of April 11, 1981 when you went to sleep a couple of houses up from where you were living at the time, and you already talked about some of those things in the hypnosis isn’t that right?
Justin: Uh huh.
Dash: We’re using videotape today. It was really my idea because sometimes it’s good to have a picture recording of what takes place for anybody who might want to learn about what we’ve talked about. Now, this is not being conducted in a secret way you know when we’re talking about things that are being investigated by the Sheriff. That’s kind of public you know, or can be public later on. So we want to have a recording of it, O.K.?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: I think that today I will probably be the only person asking you questions although there may be someone from the Sheriff’s Department or the Sheriff possibly asking you some questions later on. Now, you have been hypnotized before, is that right?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: Do you have any questions for me about hypnosis or about anything at all related to hypnosis?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: Do you know what kind of Dr. a psychologist is? What kind of Dr. is a psychologist?
Justin: A hypnotizing person.
Dr Dash/J. Smartt
Page Two
Dash: A hypnotizing person, right. I’m not the kind of Dr. that gives shots or medicine, but my work is just talking with people. And that’s what we’ll be doing the whole time today. Are there any other questions at all that you would like to ask me before we begin, anything at all that you want to ask?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: Do you remember what it felt like before when you got hypnotized? Remember how you felt? Can you tell me a little bit about how you felt? When you were hypnotized.
Justin: Relaxed.
Dash: You felt relaxed, O.K. Anything else? I understand also when you were hypnotized before that there was an artist there? Was there hypnosis taken place at that time? Do you remember talking to the artist?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: O.K., can you tell me a little bit about what happened you know, what went on when the artist was there? What did the artist do?
Justin: He was drawing.
Dash: He was drawing? What was he drawing?
Justin: Pictures.
Dash: Pictures. And how did he know what to draw?
Justin: Me telling him.
Dash: By you telling him, O.K., so I think that one of the things we’ll be doing when you’re hypnotized is to have you look at the drawings that the artist made and see if there is anything that you would like to change about those drawings or see if you would like to leave them the same. See if there is anything you want to make different or if you think they’re O.K. the way they are. Now, before we do the hypnosis, ah, do you have to go to the bathroom or anything like that?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: So, you let me know if you want to alright? Now, a lot of times when I do hypnosis, I like to have kids look at my watch, O.K.? I’m going to let you hold my watch. And I want you to just stare at the second hand. Going around like that, and everytime it goes past one of those 5 second marks, we’re going to wait until it gets up to the top there. Everytime it goes past one of those 5 second marks, I would like you to take a deep breath.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Three
Dash: Take one now, that’s good and just keep staring, only at the watch and you might find Justin that with each breath that you take you get a little bit deeper relaxed and you start to feel more relaxed as the second hand goes around, around and the watch gets kind of heavy, and by the time it gets all the way back to the crown and your eyes blinking more and more, they get heavier, soon the watch becomes too heavy to hold, and I will take it from your hand and then I’m going to press down on your shoulder, and when I press down, just let your eyes close. You’re doing a good job and let your muscles get completely loose and limp, kind of floppy, just like a damp old dish rag, loose and limp and relaxed and I think you can begin to let your muscles feel very very loose and warm and relaxed, just like cooked spaghetti, loose and limp and floppy and right now all that you need to think about is getting your muscles as limp and floppy as possible and from time to time I might press down on your shoulder just like that and when I do, that will be a little reminder for you to go deeper and deeper relaxed with each breath that you take. Now, I’m going to ask you to use your imagination, right now and see in front of you an old flight of stairs, the kind that you might find in an old hotel, very very wide sturdy steps, maybe with a beautiful, thick, dark colored carpeting going down the steps and a sturdy handrail, very strong handrail going down along the side that you could hold on to if you’d like. I’m going to be counting backwards from fifteen down to one. With each number that you hear, I’d like you to take another deep breath and another step down, so when I finally reach the count of one, you can be very very much more relaxed than you are right now, doing a very excellent job. Beginning with fifteen going deeper and deeper, that’s good and the fourteenth step, more relaxed more comfortable. There’s never any need to rush when you’re relaxing yourself and thirteen, doing deeper and deeper, just getting as comfortable as possible, twelve, eleven, deeper and deeper, deeper, and deeper relaxed and ten and you’ll find that you can stay this relaxed even though you may be talking even though you may open your eyes and still be very comfortable and now you’re going deeper and deeper, eight that’s good, you’re doing a very very good job, seven, drifting deeper and deeper all the time, you’ll find that you can stay relaxed and stay comfortable even though you will be talking about things, as you remember them, even though I might ask you questions or someone else may ask you questions, you can stay relaxed even though you may be opening your eyes and talking as you walk down to the sixth step you can go deepr and deeper, deeper and deeper relaxed, more and more comfortable all the time, deeper and deeper and deeper, the whole time very very comfortable, five, very deeply pleasantly and comfortable relaxed, four, and three and I’d like you to wait just for a minute right here on the second step because I’m going to be describing something else. A very large beautifully carved wooden door and on the other side of
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Four
Dash: this door is a very special room that we can call your memory room and in this room are all of the things that we’ve ever seen or heard, all the things that are in your memory that you remember from time to time and all these memories are on video tape and waiting to be put on a video tape player so that you can describe them once again and you’ll see all these things in very great detail. All that we’re going to do is pick out the tape that we’re interested in viewing. And the reason that we’re having you pull the tape out to play is so that you can just stand back and describe what went on and what you remember so that you don’t have to live through it again, but describe what you see, but not what you remember. So walk down the step number one. Very relaxed and comfortable. As long as you can stay that way. And through this door till you walk over to the far end of the room where there are some big file cabinets and you go over to the first file cabinet it has four drawers, and the drawers in the bottom has all the tapes from April, because that’s the fourth month of the year. We walk over or you walk over to that file cabinet and pull out the bottom drawer which is the fourth drawer, you pull out tape from April 11. Take this tape over and you sit down in a big comfortable easy chair and in front of you is a large T.V. set and a video tape machine. It’s going to play that tape. And this tape really is a tape of fall the events that occur on that night when you went to sleep in that house, a couple of houses from where you lived at the time. Okay. And you go ahead and sleep in the chair and I’ll put this tape in the machine, and I’ll put the machine on just like that, and give this a chance to light up, okay. Now I’m going to count from one to there and when I reach, the set is all warmed up. The tape is going to start to play. It’s a very, very special tape that is kind of like a news show, that will describe and tell us everything that happened that night. And then you’ll describe what you see very accurately. Very, very accurately you’ll tell us what you see on that tape. But first I would like you to watch the whole tape from start to finish, just from the time before you went to sleep until many hours later. And this tape we can speed up, we can freeze the frame, we can zoom in, we can diverse, we can slow down, because it’s such a special tape we’re showing. Now you go ahead as I count from one to three and we’ll take all the time that’s needed. And when you’re completely done you’ll see on video tape of that night of April 11. I want you to let me know by having this thumb raise up in the air. Okay. Now, one, two, three, tape is in the machine, and just let it play, sit back in that chair and watch and see and then I’ll talk to you again, Justin. Take all the time you need to let the tape play.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Five
Dash: Now while you’re relaxed and while you’re comfortable, you’re doing just fine, Justin, doing just fine. We’ll rewind this tape all the way back to the beginning and then we’re going to play it again. And then this time as you’re sitting there very comfortably in the easy chair, I’d like you to describe what you see on that screen, every detail, even what you think might be the least important, I’d like you to describe every single thing you see on that screen. Everything that the tape is showing, the whole thing from start to finish. You’re doing extremely well, the tape is re-wound, doing very, very well. And I’ll count to three again and the tape will play, this time maybe a little more slowly, and you take your time and describe every single detail. Even the very unimportant ones, even the most unimportant ones. Just sit back and describe very accurately what you see. Alright, one, two, three, we’ll click the tape forward again. Go ahead, staying very comfortably and describe what you see on that screen.
Justin: I’m watching the Love Boat, and I see Greg, his mom, Ricky and me. And Tina walks in and says she is going to bed, and then she goes to bed. And then we watched Love Boat and then we go to bed. And their mom was still laying down, and the T.V. was still on. Then me and Ricky slept…….talking…….then I have a dream….
Dash: Okay
Justin: On a boat…..about a mile away from the shore…..and there’s a lot of people on my boat……Johnny and Dana….get into a fight with a man…….there’s another man in the crowd that has the same kind of clothes as he does…….and they throw again…….Johnny and Dana overboard….and I run down to their mom and she had a cut on her chest, and then…..got in a lifeboat and escaped….and then I took a rag and put it on her chest…and then I threw it over-board.
Dash: Umm, mmmm
Justin: And then I woke up, the next morning.
Dash: Okay.
Justin: And then I had to go over to the Seabolts’.
Dash: To the where?
Justin: Seabolts….And they said that someone was murdered in the house……..And Sheila said she thought it was Ricky and her mom and Tina……..Sheila and Ricky had to talk with the, with one of the deputies, and then I had to…….
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Six
Justin: Then Sheila, Ricky and Greg left to their uncle’s, and then I went home and got my mom, then she came out and we spent the day at Keddie, then we left that night……At Nina’s house…….we spent the night……….
Dash: Um, mmm.
Justin: The next morning………we went to the Sheriff’s office………..
Dash: Umm, mmm.
Justin: Then after that I went home…… and played with Ricky. We went to the Arcade…..and played games…..and then Ricky went home….then that night me and my brothers were playing with the electronic games on T.V……….then we went to bed……
Dr. Dash: Um, mmm
Justin: Then the next morning we got up and we went and watched T.V………then we stayed at the house all day……then we had horse races that night……and played tower…..then went to sleep…..we played the games again…..and we played and Ricky went home and after that we watched T.V. and went to bed. And next morning at ten we went to the funeral. Then came back to the house and went bowling…..And then came back home and went to the Arcade…..and the Sheriff was there. And the Sheriff came and picked me up and brought me to Joan’s house. Then I watched him leave….
Dash: Is there something else on the tape that you see? Well, Justin, you’re really doing a terrific job, and just being very, very accurate and helpful and I’m going to ask you to stay relaxed more and go over some of these things with me. It’s very, very interesting to me and I’m going to ask you some questions about some of these things, if that’s okay. Alright? I’m going to go back almost to the beginning of the tape. Do you see her mom still lying there and the T.V. is still on and me and Ricky start talking and then you said, then I have a dream and that’s kind of interesting to me and I would like you to talk to me a little bit about that and tell me what you mean when you say I have a dream, because you say me and Ricky start talking and then I had the dream. Can you tell me about that please?
Justin: I went to bed, then we talk for about five minutes….
Dash: Yeah
Justin: Fell asleep. Then I had a dream.
Dash: The dream about the fight?
Justin: Um, ummm.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Seven
Dash: And aside from what you’re calling the dream, do you recall anything else from that evening, anything at all. Anything all that took place?
Justin: No.
Dash: That you may have heard or saw. Anything at all that you might remember.
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Listen, let me ask you about what you recall in the dream, okay? You say we’re about a mile away from the shore. There’s a lot of people on your boat, and Johnny and Dana get into a fight with a man.
Justin: Um, um.
Dash: And there is another man who has the same clothes.
Justin: Um. Um.
Dash: Now who throws Johnny and Dana overboard?
Justin: The two men.
Dash: The two men, okay. Are those the two men that you talked about before when the artist was here?
Justin: Um, um.
Dash: Okay. Now you just sit tight right there for a minute I’m just going to ask the Sheriff a question. You’re doing just fine. Now, Justin, you’re doing just great. Now I’m going to show you what the artist had drawn. That’s what I went over to ask the Sheriff about. And I’m going to show you, we have two drawings and you say these are the drawings of the two men who had a fight with Johnny and Dana. I’m going to ask you to, in a minute, to stay relaxed and open your eyes and look at this one and see if there is anything at all that you would like to change about the first drawing I’m going to show you. Now, staying very relaxed and comfortable, and you can open your eyes but stay in the hypnosis now, and take a good look at this drawing and tell me anything at all that you would like to have different. It may be the nose you want to change, if anything.
Justin: ?
Dash: This is exactly the way you would like it to be?
Justin: Yes.
Dash: Now take a good look at this drawing…..and I’ll
Dr, Dash/J. Smartt
Page Eight
Dash: show them to you again, okay. Now, I’m going to show you the second drawing and I’d like you to do the same thing, okay? What about that new_______________?
What about that drawing?
Justin: ?
Dash: Justin, do you know who this man is?
Justin: ?
Dash: If you take a real good look at him….Have you ever seen a person like that before?
Justin: In the dream.
Dash: In the dream. How about outside the dream?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Did this man go by a name, did he have a name in the dream?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Is there anything you’d like to change, to make that drawing different? ………………Okay. I’ll show you this drawing, the first drawing again. You tell me if you know who this person is? Look like anybody at all that you’ve ever seen before? Did you ever hear this person referred to by a name?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Now I’m going to ask the Sheriff if there are any 1 questions he wants to ask. You can just close your eyes for a second and let yourself relax. And Sheriff Thomas is going to be talking to you again.
Doug: Justin, can you hear me? I’d like you to open your eyes one more time and look at these two subjects again. Did either of these subjects, did this man call anyone by name?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Doug: Okay. I want you to look at this other picture. Did this man call anyone by name?
Justin: Um, um.
Doug: Who did he call?
Justin: Sue.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Nine
Doug: Sue. What else did he say?
Justin: That’s all.
Doug: Okay. Thank you. You can close your eyes again.
Dash: Sheriff, are there any other questions you would like to ask Justin?
Doug: (Very low conversation with Dr. Dash.)
Dash: Are you going to leave or……
Doug: In about ten minutes. I’ll just have someone else come in here and change the tape. You can go as long as you want.
Dash: Alright. Justin, you’re doing just great now. Sheriff Thomas did ask me to talk to you about a couple of more things, and I agree that it would be important to have you talk about these things in a little bit of detail. I would like to go back on this tape to the point of which these uh, two men are having a fight. I would like you to tell me just what you see them doing as we look at the tape. And you describe just what you see them doing, what kind of fight, what happened to Johnny and Dana and the mother.
Justin: ? and Dana gets thrown into the water and their mom gets cut in the chest.
Dash: The mom gets cut in the chest. And what does she get cut with?
Justin: With a knife.
Dash: With a knife? Suppose we zoom in real close on that, okay. Real close on that. And I’d like you, please, to describe just everything that you see about her getting cut with the knife.
Justin: ?
Dash: Mm, mm
Justin: It’s a pocket knife.
Dash: Mm, mm. Do you see the pocket knife there?
Justin: Yeah.
Dash: Now, let’s zoom in real tight, get a real close up shot and take a good long look at the pocket knife, and describe anything about it that you see.
Justin: It has about three____________
Dash: Mm, mm.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Ten
Justin: It’s brown ……………..and it has some other gadgets on it.
Dash: Some other gadgets on it, mm, mm. What other gadgets do you see on that pocket knife?
Justin: A can opener.
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And a screw
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And scissors.
Dash: And scissors, okay.
Justin: A spoon and a fork.
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And that’s all
Dash: And does the knife have any kind of writing on it?
Justin: No.
Dash: Any kind of little symbol?
Justin: No.
Dash: Or sign on it?
Justin: No.
Dash: Who’s holding that knife or who’s using that knife?
Justin: The man in the black hair.
Dash: The man in the black hair. Now I’d like you to zoom in and focus in and tell me what he’s doing with that knife.
Justin: He’s cutting her
Dash: He’s cutting her. And tell me where he’s cutting her.
Justin: In the chest.
Dash: And looking very closely, you can describe as best you can, just where on her chest he’s cutting her…..Take a big close look and say where he’s cutting her on the chest.
Justin: In the middle.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Eleven
Dash: Right in the middle? Mm, mm. And what’s the lady doing, what’s their mother doing?
Justin: Nothing.
Dash: And is that man in the black hair saying anything:
Justin: Sue.
Dash: He’s saying Sue? And what else is he saying? Do you hear nothing else?........Which hand is he using?
Justin: His right.
Dash: His right hand. And what is the other man doing?
Justin: Sitting there.
Dash: He’s just sitting there……….Is there anything else that you remember this time that I am talking with you that maybe you didn’t remember last time? Anything else you think would be important for us to go over?.....Anything else you remember the man saying?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Relax for a minute, take a couple more deep breaths and I’ll give you a little break, just a little rest…………And then I’ll be talking to you a little bit more. (Long pause) I’d kind of like you to sit back up in that chair and stay rested. We’re just about done. Justin, what else can you tell me about the clothes that these two men are wearing?
Justin: They were wearing Levi jackets and Levi’s. They had tee shirts. I don’t know.
Dash: What color are those Levi Jackets?
Justin: Blue
Dash: And both men have the same jackets or different?
Justin: Same.
Dash: And how about the Levi’s pants, what color?
Justin: Same as the jackets.
Dash: Same as the jackets. The tee shirts, what color?
Justin: White.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Twelve
Dash: There white. Now, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions, not about the tape we just played, but just about in your own memory, okay, what you recall. And you think back to that now. I’d like you to tell me if you have, if you remember any sound or noise, anything that stands out that you remember.
Justin: Thumping.
Dash: A what?
Justin: Thumping.
Dash: Can you tell me more about that noise, about the thumping.
Justin: It was just a thump.
Dash: Was there more than one thump? Or just one?
Justin: There’s three.
Dash: Three thumps? Anything else besides the thumps?......Do you remember anything at all about your conversations with Ricky that night?
Justin: We were talking about what we’re going to do tomorrow. That’s all.
Dash: And that’s all, huh? Is there anything about what happened that night that is bothering you or worrying you? Anything about what happened that’s upsetting you?
Justin: (No response. Possibly shook head no.)
Dash: Alright. Need to see if the Sheriff has anything else that he would like to learn about, o.k.? Any other areas that you’d like to ask about?
Doug: Nothing right now.
Dash: Justin, is there anything else that you would like to mention to us today?
Justin: No.
Dash: No, well, I know that you cooperated very very nicely that you’ve helped out a great deal and you know sometimes people remember things after they leave the office and if you do I think it would be very important for you to get back in touch with Sheriff Thomas just in case there’s anything else you remember about that night that you can tell him. You’ve been very relaxed and very cooperative the whole time and in just a moment, I’m going to have you come up out of the hypnosis and I’m going to do so by counting from 1to 5.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Thirteen
Dash: And when I reach 5, just let your eyes open, come all the way back awake, alert, all the way out of the hypnosis and feeling fine, alright. Now one, just beginning to become more awake and alert—two, more awake and alert still—three, four, just letting your eyes begin to open and five, your eyes come all the way open, taking a minute or two to come all the way back, out of the hypnosis, you’re feeling fine. Justin, are there any questions that you would like to ask me right now?
Justin: No.
Dash: Anything at all? O.K., then, I think that just about does it for today and I think you did really a very very good job, how are you feeling?
Justin: Good
Dash: Good. Alright, I think that should do it.
Doug: Did very good, you’re getting used to that, you get really relaxed.
Dash: Is this one still going?
Doug: Still going. End of tape.
1. Long, BLOND hair was found in Johnny's hands at his autopsy--a fact not known to Doug Thomas the first time he hypnotized Justin on April 13 (according to a story in the FRB, that session definitely took place on April 13, NOT April 14.) Did Thomas accidentally prompt Justin's "memory" on this point? We don't know.
2. There is no way any of this story can be true, according to the physical evidence, and even the floorplan of the cabin.
3. Because Justin's descriptions, and the composite sketches made based on those descriptions, were originally based on a "dream" he had, the sketches were not made public. The day AFTER Justin "remembered" this version, the sketches were made public. The ONLY change made was the long-haired suspect now had "blond" hair.
The "dark" haired version looks exactly like Gary Mollath's yearbook photo. The "blond" haired version looks exactly like Cary Walke, Chuck Walke's brother. Apparently, NO ONE on dmac's or Mean Kitty's boards ever heard of Cary Walke, but he is a convicted pedophile.
Dr. Dash hypnosis session
PCSO Report wrote:
Dr. Dash: Today is Tuesday May 19th, 1981 and my name is Dr. Jerry Dash. I am a psychologist licensed in the State of California. I practice at Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles and in Burbank, California and we’re here today in the office of Sheriff Thomas in Plumas County and we’re in his office and he is here with us behind the camera and also we have with us on camera a 12 year old boy whose name is Justin and Justin what is your last name?
Justin: Smartt.
Dash: Justin Smartt. And Justin has talked to the Sheriff before, has been hypnotized by the Sheriff before and the reason he has asked me to come up and do some additional hypnosis with you Justin is to see if there are other things that you might remember about all the things that happened that you have talked about so far on the night of April 11, 1981 when you went to sleep a couple of houses up from where you were living at the time, and you already talked about some of those things in the hypnosis isn’t that right?
Justin: Uh huh.
Dash: We’re using videotape today. It was really my idea because sometimes it’s good to have a picture recording of what takes place for anybody who might want to learn about what we’ve talked about. Now, this is not being conducted in a secret way you know when we’re talking about things that are being investigated by the Sheriff. That’s kind of public you know, or can be public later on. So we want to have a recording of it, O.K.?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: I think that today I will probably be the only person asking you questions although there may be someone from the Sheriff’s Department or the Sheriff possibly asking you some questions later on. Now, you have been hypnotized before, is that right?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: Do you have any questions for me about hypnosis or about anything at all related to hypnosis?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: Do you know what kind of Dr. a psychologist is? What kind of Dr. is a psychologist?
Justin: A hypnotizing person.
Dr Dash/J. Smartt
Page Two
Dash: A hypnotizing person, right. I’m not the kind of Dr. that gives shots or medicine, but my work is just talking with people. And that’s what we’ll be doing the whole time today. Are there any other questions at all that you would like to ask me before we begin, anything at all that you want to ask?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: Do you remember what it felt like before when you got hypnotized? Remember how you felt? Can you tell me a little bit about how you felt? When you were hypnotized.
Justin: Relaxed.
Dash: You felt relaxed, O.K. Anything else? I understand also when you were hypnotized before that there was an artist there? Was there hypnosis taken place at that time? Do you remember talking to the artist?
Justin: Yah.
Dash: O.K., can you tell me a little bit about what happened you know, what went on when the artist was there? What did the artist do?
Justin: He was drawing.
Dash: He was drawing? What was he drawing?
Justin: Pictures.
Dash: Pictures. And how did he know what to draw?
Justin: Me telling him.
Dash: By you telling him, O.K., so I think that one of the things we’ll be doing when you’re hypnotized is to have you look at the drawings that the artist made and see if there is anything that you would like to change about those drawings or see if you would like to leave them the same. See if there is anything you want to make different or if you think they’re O.K. the way they are. Now, before we do the hypnosis, ah, do you have to go to the bathroom or anything like that?
Justin: Huh uh.
Dash: So, you let me know if you want to alright? Now, a lot of times when I do hypnosis, I like to have kids look at my watch, O.K.? I’m going to let you hold my watch. And I want you to just stare at the second hand. Going around like that, and everytime it goes past one of those 5 second marks, we’re going to wait until it gets up to the top there. Everytime it goes past one of those 5 second marks, I would like you to take a deep breath.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Three
Dash: Take one now, that’s good and just keep staring, only at the watch and you might find Justin that with each breath that you take you get a little bit deeper relaxed and you start to feel more relaxed as the second hand goes around, around and the watch gets kind of heavy, and by the time it gets all the way back to the crown and your eyes blinking more and more, they get heavier, soon the watch becomes too heavy to hold, and I will take it from your hand and then I’m going to press down on your shoulder, and when I press down, just let your eyes close. You’re doing a good job and let your muscles get completely loose and limp, kind of floppy, just like a damp old dish rag, loose and limp and relaxed and I think you can begin to let your muscles feel very very loose and warm and relaxed, just like cooked spaghetti, loose and limp and floppy and right now all that you need to think about is getting your muscles as limp and floppy as possible and from time to time I might press down on your shoulder just like that and when I do, that will be a little reminder for you to go deeper and deeper relaxed with each breath that you take. Now, I’m going to ask you to use your imagination, right now and see in front of you an old flight of stairs, the kind that you might find in an old hotel, very very wide sturdy steps, maybe with a beautiful, thick, dark colored carpeting going down the steps and a sturdy handrail, very strong handrail going down along the side that you could hold on to if you’d like. I’m going to be counting backwards from fifteen down to one. With each number that you hear, I’d like you to take another deep breath and another step down, so when I finally reach the count of one, you can be very very much more relaxed than you are right now, doing a very excellent job. Beginning with fifteen going deeper and deeper, that’s good and the fourteenth step, more relaxed more comfortable. There’s never any need to rush when you’re relaxing yourself and thirteen, doing deeper and deeper, just getting as comfortable as possible, twelve, eleven, deeper and deeper, deeper, and deeper relaxed and ten and you’ll find that you can stay this relaxed even though you may be talking even though you may open your eyes and still be very comfortable and now you’re going deeper and deeper, eight that’s good, you’re doing a very very good job, seven, drifting deeper and deeper all the time, you’ll find that you can stay relaxed and stay comfortable even though you will be talking about things, as you remember them, even though I might ask you questions or someone else may ask you questions, you can stay relaxed even though you may be opening your eyes and talking as you walk down to the sixth step you can go deepr and deeper, deeper and deeper relaxed, more and more comfortable all the time, deeper and deeper and deeper, the whole time very very comfortable, five, very deeply pleasantly and comfortable relaxed, four, and three and I’d like you to wait just for a minute right here on the second step because I’m going to be describing something else. A very large beautifully carved wooden door and on the other side of
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Four
Dash: this door is a very special room that we can call your memory room and in this room are all of the things that we’ve ever seen or heard, all the things that are in your memory that you remember from time to time and all these memories are on video tape and waiting to be put on a video tape player so that you can describe them once again and you’ll see all these things in very great detail. All that we’re going to do is pick out the tape that we’re interested in viewing. And the reason that we’re having you pull the tape out to play is so that you can just stand back and describe what went on and what you remember so that you don’t have to live through it again, but describe what you see, but not what you remember. So walk down the step number one. Very relaxed and comfortable. As long as you can stay that way. And through this door till you walk over to the far end of the room where there are some big file cabinets and you go over to the first file cabinet it has four drawers, and the drawers in the bottom has all the tapes from April, because that’s the fourth month of the year. We walk over or you walk over to that file cabinet and pull out the bottom drawer which is the fourth drawer, you pull out tape from April 11. Take this tape over and you sit down in a big comfortable easy chair and in front of you is a large T.V. set and a video tape machine. It’s going to play that tape. And this tape really is a tape of fall the events that occur on that night when you went to sleep in that house, a couple of houses from where you lived at the time. Okay. And you go ahead and sleep in the chair and I’ll put this tape in the machine, and I’ll put the machine on just like that, and give this a chance to light up, okay. Now I’m going to count from one to there and when I reach, the set is all warmed up. The tape is going to start to play. It’s a very, very special tape that is kind of like a news show, that will describe and tell us everything that happened that night. And then you’ll describe what you see very accurately. Very, very accurately you’ll tell us what you see on that tape. But first I would like you to watch the whole tape from start to finish, just from the time before you went to sleep until many hours later. And this tape we can speed up, we can freeze the frame, we can zoom in, we can diverse, we can slow down, because it’s such a special tape we’re showing. Now you go ahead as I count from one to three and we’ll take all the time that’s needed. And when you’re completely done you’ll see on video tape of that night of April 11. I want you to let me know by having this thumb raise up in the air. Okay. Now, one, two, three, tape is in the machine, and just let it play, sit back in that chair and watch and see and then I’ll talk to you again, Justin. Take all the time you need to let the tape play.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
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Dash: Now while you’re relaxed and while you’re comfortable, you’re doing just fine, Justin, doing just fine. We’ll rewind this tape all the way back to the beginning and then we’re going to play it again. And then this time as you’re sitting there very comfortably in the easy chair, I’d like you to describe what you see on that screen, every detail, even what you think might be the least important, I’d like you to describe every single thing you see on that screen. Everything that the tape is showing, the whole thing from start to finish. You’re doing extremely well, the tape is re-wound, doing very, very well. And I’ll count to three again and the tape will play, this time maybe a little more slowly, and you take your time and describe every single detail. Even the very unimportant ones, even the most unimportant ones. Just sit back and describe very accurately what you see. Alright, one, two, three, we’ll click the tape forward again. Go ahead, staying very comfortably and describe what you see on that screen.
Justin: I’m watching the Love Boat, and I see Greg, his mom, Ricky and me. And Tina walks in and says she is going to bed, and then she goes to bed. And then we watched Love Boat and then we go to bed. And their mom was still laying down, and the T.V. was still on. Then me and Ricky slept…….talking…….then I have a dream….
Dash: Okay
Justin: On a boat…..about a mile away from the shore…..and there’s a lot of people on my boat……Johnny and Dana….get into a fight with a man…….there’s another man in the crowd that has the same kind of clothes as he does…….and they throw again…….Johnny and Dana overboard….and I run down to their mom and she had a cut on her chest, and then…..got in a lifeboat and escaped….and then I took a rag and put it on her chest…and then I threw it over-board.
Dash: Umm, mmmm
Justin: And then I woke up, the next morning.
Dash: Okay.
Justin: And then I had to go over to the Seabolts’.
Dash: To the where?
Justin: Seabolts….And they said that someone was murdered in the house……..And Sheila said she thought it was Ricky and her mom and Tina……..Sheila and Ricky had to talk with the, with one of the deputies, and then I had to…….
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Justin: Then Sheila, Ricky and Greg left to their uncle’s, and then I went home and got my mom, then she came out and we spent the day at Keddie, then we left that night……At Nina’s house…….we spent the night……….
Dash: Um, mmm.
Justin: The next morning………we went to the Sheriff’s office………..
Dash: Umm, mmm.
Justin: Then after that I went home…… and played with Ricky. We went to the Arcade…..and played games…..and then Ricky went home….then that night me and my brothers were playing with the electronic games on T.V……….then we went to bed……
Dr. Dash: Um, mmm
Justin: Then the next morning we got up and we went and watched T.V………then we stayed at the house all day……then we had horse races that night……and played tower…..then went to sleep…..we played the games again…..and we played and Ricky went home and after that we watched T.V. and went to bed. And next morning at ten we went to the funeral. Then came back to the house and went bowling…..And then came back home and went to the Arcade…..and the Sheriff was there. And the Sheriff came and picked me up and brought me to Joan’s house. Then I watched him leave….
Dash: Is there something else on the tape that you see? Well, Justin, you’re really doing a terrific job, and just being very, very accurate and helpful and I’m going to ask you to stay relaxed more and go over some of these things with me. It’s very, very interesting to me and I’m going to ask you some questions about some of these things, if that’s okay. Alright? I’m going to go back almost to the beginning of the tape. Do you see her mom still lying there and the T.V. is still on and me and Ricky start talking and then you said, then I have a dream and that’s kind of interesting to me and I would like you to talk to me a little bit about that and tell me what you mean when you say I have a dream, because you say me and Ricky start talking and then I had the dream. Can you tell me about that please?
Justin: I went to bed, then we talk for about five minutes….
Dash: Yeah
Justin: Fell asleep. Then I had a dream.
Dash: The dream about the fight?
Justin: Um, ummm.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Seven
Dash: And aside from what you’re calling the dream, do you recall anything else from that evening, anything at all. Anything all that took place?
Justin: No.
Dash: That you may have heard or saw. Anything at all that you might remember.
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Listen, let me ask you about what you recall in the dream, okay? You say we’re about a mile away from the shore. There’s a lot of people on your boat, and Johnny and Dana get into a fight with a man.
Justin: Um, um.
Dash: And there is another man who has the same clothes.
Justin: Um. Um.
Dash: Now who throws Johnny and Dana overboard?
Justin: The two men.
Dash: The two men, okay. Are those the two men that you talked about before when the artist was here?
Justin: Um, um.
Dash: Okay. Now you just sit tight right there for a minute I’m just going to ask the Sheriff a question. You’re doing just fine. Now, Justin, you’re doing just great. Now I’m going to show you what the artist had drawn. That’s what I went over to ask the Sheriff about. And I’m going to show you, we have two drawings and you say these are the drawings of the two men who had a fight with Johnny and Dana. I’m going to ask you to, in a minute, to stay relaxed and open your eyes and look at this one and see if there is anything at all that you would like to change about the first drawing I’m going to show you. Now, staying very relaxed and comfortable, and you can open your eyes but stay in the hypnosis now, and take a good look at this drawing and tell me anything at all that you would like to have different. It may be the nose you want to change, if anything.
Justin: ?
Dash: This is exactly the way you would like it to be?
Justin: Yes.
Dash: Now take a good look at this drawing…..and I’ll
Dr, Dash/J. Smartt
Page Eight
Dash: show them to you again, okay. Now, I’m going to show you the second drawing and I’d like you to do the same thing, okay? What about that new_______________?
What about that drawing?
Justin: ?
Dash: Justin, do you know who this man is?
Justin: ?
Dash: If you take a real good look at him….Have you ever seen a person like that before?
Justin: In the dream.
Dash: In the dream. How about outside the dream?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Did this man go by a name, did he have a name in the dream?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Is there anything you’d like to change, to make that drawing different? ………………Okay. I’ll show you this drawing, the first drawing again. You tell me if you know who this person is? Look like anybody at all that you’ve ever seen before? Did you ever hear this person referred to by a name?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Now I’m going to ask the Sheriff if there are any 1 questions he wants to ask. You can just close your eyes for a second and let yourself relax. And Sheriff Thomas is going to be talking to you again.
Doug: Justin, can you hear me? I’d like you to open your eyes one more time and look at these two subjects again. Did either of these subjects, did this man call anyone by name?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Doug: Okay. I want you to look at this other picture. Did this man call anyone by name?
Justin: Um, um.
Doug: Who did he call?
Justin: Sue.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Nine
Doug: Sue. What else did he say?
Justin: That’s all.
Doug: Okay. Thank you. You can close your eyes again.
Dash: Sheriff, are there any other questions you would like to ask Justin?
Doug: (Very low conversation with Dr. Dash.)
Dash: Are you going to leave or……
Doug: In about ten minutes. I’ll just have someone else come in here and change the tape. You can go as long as you want.
Dash: Alright. Justin, you’re doing just great now. Sheriff Thomas did ask me to talk to you about a couple of more things, and I agree that it would be important to have you talk about these things in a little bit of detail. I would like to go back on this tape to the point of which these uh, two men are having a fight. I would like you to tell me just what you see them doing as we look at the tape. And you describe just what you see them doing, what kind of fight, what happened to Johnny and Dana and the mother.
Justin: ? and Dana gets thrown into the water and their mom gets cut in the chest.
Dash: The mom gets cut in the chest. And what does she get cut with?
Justin: With a knife.
Dash: With a knife? Suppose we zoom in real close on that, okay. Real close on that. And I’d like you, please, to describe just everything that you see about her getting cut with the knife.
Justin: ?
Dash: Mm, mm
Justin: It’s a pocket knife.
Dash: Mm, mm. Do you see the pocket knife there?
Justin: Yeah.
Dash: Now, let’s zoom in real tight, get a real close up shot and take a good long look at the pocket knife, and describe anything about it that you see.
Justin: It has about three____________
Dash: Mm, mm.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Ten
Justin: It’s brown ……………..and it has some other gadgets on it.
Dash: Some other gadgets on it, mm, mm. What other gadgets do you see on that pocket knife?
Justin: A can opener.
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And a screw
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And scissors.
Dash: And scissors, okay.
Justin: A spoon and a fork.
Dash: Mm, mm.
Justin: And that’s all
Dash: And does the knife have any kind of writing on it?
Justin: No.
Dash: Any kind of little symbol?
Justin: No.
Dash: Or sign on it?
Justin: No.
Dash: Who’s holding that knife or who’s using that knife?
Justin: The man in the black hair.
Dash: The man in the black hair. Now I’d like you to zoom in and focus in and tell me what he’s doing with that knife.
Justin: He’s cutting her
Dash: He’s cutting her. And tell me where he’s cutting her.
Justin: In the chest.
Dash: And looking very closely, you can describe as best you can, just where on her chest he’s cutting her…..Take a big close look and say where he’s cutting her on the chest.
Justin: In the middle.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Eleven
Dash: Right in the middle? Mm, mm. And what’s the lady doing, what’s their mother doing?
Justin: Nothing.
Dash: And is that man in the black hair saying anything:
Justin: Sue.
Dash: He’s saying Sue? And what else is he saying? Do you hear nothing else?........Which hand is he using?
Justin: His right.
Dash: His right hand. And what is the other man doing?
Justin: Sitting there.
Dash: He’s just sitting there……….Is there anything else that you remember this time that I am talking with you that maybe you didn’t remember last time? Anything else you think would be important for us to go over?.....Anything else you remember the man saying?
Justin: Mm, mm (no)
Dash: Relax for a minute, take a couple more deep breaths and I’ll give you a little break, just a little rest…………And then I’ll be talking to you a little bit more. (Long pause) I’d kind of like you to sit back up in that chair and stay rested. We’re just about done. Justin, what else can you tell me about the clothes that these two men are wearing?
Justin: They were wearing Levi jackets and Levi’s. They had tee shirts. I don’t know.
Dash: What color are those Levi Jackets?
Justin: Blue
Dash: And both men have the same jackets or different?
Justin: Same.
Dash: And how about the Levi’s pants, what color?
Justin: Same as the jackets.
Dash: Same as the jackets. The tee shirts, what color?
Justin: White.
Dr. Dash/J. Smartt
Page Twelve
Dash: There white. Now, I’m going to ask you a couple of questions, not about the tape we just played, but just about in your own memory, okay, what you recall. And you think back to that now. I’d like you to tell me if you have, if you remember any sound or noise, anything that stands out that you remember.
Justin: Thumping.
Dash: A what?
Justin: Thumping.
Dash: Can you tell me more about that noise, about the thumping.
Justin: It was just a thump.
Dash: Was there more than one thump? Or just one?
Justin: There’s three.
Dash: Three thumps? Anything else besides the thumps?......Do you remember anything at all about your conversations with Ricky that night?
Justin: We were talking about what we’re going to do tomorrow. That’s all.
Dash: And that’s all, huh? Is there anything about what happened that night that is bothering you or worrying you? Anything about what happened that’s upsetting you?
Justin: (No response. Possibly shook head no.)
Dash: Alright. Need to see if the Sheriff has anything else that he would like to learn about, o.k.? Any other areas that you’d like to ask about?
Doug: Nothing right now.
Dash: Justin, is there anything else that you would like to mention to us today?
Justin: No.
Dash: No, well, I know that you cooperated very very nicely that you’ve helped out a great deal and you know sometimes people remember things after they leave the office and if you do I think it would be very important for you to get back in touch with Sheriff Thomas just in case there’s anything else you remember about that night that you can tell him. You’ve been very relaxed and very cooperative the whole time and in just a moment, I’m going to have you come up out of the hypnosis and I’m going to do so by counting from 1to 5.
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Page Thirteen
Dash: And when I reach 5, just let your eyes open, come all the way back awake, alert, all the way out of the hypnosis and feeling fine, alright. Now one, just beginning to become more awake and alert—two, more awake and alert still—three, four, just letting your eyes begin to open and five, your eyes come all the way open, taking a minute or two to come all the way back, out of the hypnosis, you’re feeling fine. Justin, are there any questions that you would like to ask me right now?
Justin: No.
Dash: Anything at all? O.K., then, I think that just about does it for today and I think you did really a very very good job, how are you feeling?
Justin: Good
Dash: Good. Alright, I think that should do it.
Doug: Did very good, you’re getting used to that, you get really relaxed.
Dash: Is this one still going?
Doug: Still going. End of tape.
According to this report, not only was Justin (main witness) staying at the Meeks' right after, Ricky was hanging out there also. What were the adults, who were entrusted with the care of these kids, thinking when they let Ricky, and Justin who were possible witnesses and survivors leave the protective care of an adult. We are told by Dmac, 1) ALL THE BOYS WERE AWAKE, 2) Justin's DNA is present on something that links him to being a participant. So therefore, what ever Justin witnessed or did RICKY SHARP knows.
