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Post by kmik on May 24, 2018 20:39:40 GMT -6
You're right the bullying and name calling by the Dmac follower was childish (they only do it for the praise from 28 that they never get). I'd love to ask some questions also and no she didn't say his name- though that is what she implied. As for Justin - I can't imagine a kid playing with a dead body unless they were somehow involved. Is it possible that all hell broke loose in 28 and Justin called Marty? Absolutely, but I can't understand why Marty wouldn't have used that to black mail Marilyn. As Doug Thomas said, "it's easy to frame two dead men". But neither Justin nor Ricky have apparently done that. If either one of them have ever named Marty to the police I think this case would be stamped solved because the police would be idiots to keep spending money on a cold case if 1 or 2 witnesses have named the killer(s) and they are dead.
If Justin was "play acting" with Casey then surely he play acted with Ricky in the days following the murders (because they were together). I'm sorry but Ricky Sharps silence drives me crazy. He's obviously not afraid to go on camera (because he did that in the cabin walk through) he just doesn't want to be face to face interviewed. What question is he afraid he'll have to answer?
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Post by jmo on May 24, 2018 22:26:55 GMT -6
No, not "playing" with, By messed with I meant moving stuff... like tape maybe or peeking under the blanket at Sue. Maybe lifting an arm or something? So, I should have said "messed with" the crime scene. It must have been absolutely unbelievable to him (if he wasn't involved). His first words to Marilyn were like he was in disbelief and shock.
I can't see Justin calling Marty. Marty would've just kicked the snot out of him. And, Marty would NEVER have covered for Justin without (at least!) blackmailing Marilyn to stay with him. If that was going to happen, it would have happened right away. As soon as Marilyn left him, he could have thrown her name out there as well. Along with Wade, Blaine, and anybody else he was mad at. But, none of that happened either. So, either Marty was involved (nahhh) or he knew nothing.
I think you're right--with two boys saying it was Marty (especially along with Marilyn telling everyone what a pos he was), this would have been a shut case. But, that never happened. I don't think Justin knew the killers (if he saw them at all). He'd only been in Keddie a short while and he'd just turned 12 (wasn't it just days before?). He wasn't friends with any of the older (teenage) kids hanging at the arcade and such. Even Marilyn said she was glad when the Sharps moved in to give him someone to play with. He acted even younger than his 12 years--just riding bike all day and climbing trees with boys that were five and ten.
I'm just gonna put this out there. Did Ricky strike you as odd in the video? Like maybe he was slow or autistic or something? I think it was the way he held his head and kept his eyes down and almost cowered to Sheila. I watched it a few times and it's just the feeling I get. I wonder what he does for a living now. Do you know?
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Post by kmik on May 25, 2018 5:05:55 GMT -6
I knew what you meant and it's possible he just went in the living room and messed around with the bodies. But how could a child go into a room (of a house that was not his) with 3 dead people and even touch them (and not be scared or run back to the room to tell your friend)? That would take a pretty sick kid.
No, I meant if Justin was play acting the stabbing with Casey (who wasn't in 28) then why wouldn't he do the same with Ricky who was? I think the point of how much they were together after the murders really gets lost or is never even considered. These two were friends. They had just spent an entire Saturday (and night) together, they certainly saw each other on Sunday, and they played with each other for the next several days immediately following the murders. This was very horrible and I just can't imagine they didn't discuss it and/or what they saw, did, heard, knew or thought. I feel like Justin was a troubled kid. That could be why he moved to Keddie later than they did. I remember Marilyn posting of a time the police came to the Meeks house because Justin and Walter(?) were shooting a bb gun out the window and how proud she was of Justin for telling the truth (no mention of him getting in trouble). Marilyn said Justin was pure evil according to Ms. Meeks. So because he had just turned 12 doesn't mean he wasn't troubled or evil. She described him to the police (in the phone call after they found Tina's remains) as having had some serious mental problems and consequently being delivered to her [other]ex-husband in Montana. Now this could be because of what he "witnessed" but he didn't stay around but about a week after the murders before he was delivered to somebody in MV. And that could have been for his "protection" but why? These kids had been roaming free for a week. I'm not sure about Rick. He just appeared to me to be somebody with a whole lot bottled up with no way to let it out .
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Post by jmo on May 25, 2018 11:37:01 GMT -6
Justin was never a hero. He fled home to Marilyn.
That must've been Walter's gun? It'd be easy for Justin to be honest with the police if it wasn't his gun. I think he might have denied it (thinking it would be taken away) if it was his. (In which case Walter would have been the honest one.) So, Walter...hmmmm. Mama Meeks despised anyone who crossed her and her children. Could she have made up (or embellished) the "Marilyn said Justin was evil" story because SHE thought Justin was evil--maybe for telling on Walter? That was more her character than Marilyn's. She held on to grudges forever. Even when her kids were adults, she was still flexing her Mama Bear claws.
Marilyn might have sent Justin back to his dad because her life was up in the air. She had her mind set on Wade and was more than ready to move on without Justin and his issues. So many sad aspects to all of this.
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Post by kmik on May 25, 2018 21:26:08 GMT -6
Okay I just spent 2 hours reading all of Marilyn's old 2006 post. I have to say that Marilyn was talking to anybody she could talk to. She called the PCSO and asked to see the timeline (at the time she could not as the Sheriff was out of town and had to give permission), Sheila and Richard visited her at her home, she talked to Gary Mollath, she talked with Dee Lake several times, and even called the cable company to ask about the tv cable in 1981 (more than I can say for a lot of people). She quoted things told to her by these people (so I'm guessing if she was lying they would have challenged her - they did not).
Close to the end of 2006 Glenna reappeared on the forum to set Marilyn straight (haven't gotten around to Glenna's post yet - but I've read them before) but Marilyn never seem to have a problem challenging Richard or Glenna on anything.
Here are some things from memory as I couldn't copy and paste. She said:
For 25 years she thought Marty and Bo did it but that was probably because of the influences around her.
There is nothing anyone could say to convince the Meeks or Sheila that Marty and Bo were not the murderers.
Marty was a carny. He and his daughter even talked to each other in carny language. (not sure what that would be)
She nor Marty had never met Sheila (at the time of the murders)
Justin and Tina were in the same class at school
Sheila should be straight forward since her (Marilyn's) life was an open book.
Sheila should talk to Ricky since he was probably awake.
Justin told her he thought that they hid in the closet.
Justin shot at a street light, with a bb gun, from the Meeks house and busted out a window in the house across the street (which he paid for).
Marty was mentally abusive to her and the kids but never physically.
People liked Marty that was why he was able to pull scams.
Justin lived with his father for 2 years before coming to live with them in Keddie which was in Sept or Oct of 1981 (She and Marty drove all the way to Montana to pick him up).
Justin and Tina were good friends and played around the clubhouse and down by the river.
She would like to know more about Justin and Tina's friends.
Justin was questioned on and off for about a year and a half after the murders with the police taking him out of class at school, or finding him at the bowling alley, etc... and questioning him.
His 8th grade year the school called and told her he was under a desk howling like a dog so she took him out and sent him to live with his father (for 2 years) until his father died and he was sent back to her (he was 16).
Justin was not scared of Sheila but did not want to talk to her - he had a couple of times (one being during the documentary filming) but he did not want to talk to her again.
Justin said he tries not to think about the murders.
She was beginning to think she didn't even know her own son.
Marty was hyper when he came back from Reno but that he was always hyper - and he possibly wanted to get back to Keddie to fix the car.
She remembered Craig from school because he went to FRC.
There was a Randy M who lived close to the Sharps house.
Several times she asked about a girl named Kathy who drove a yellow truck who she had heard had given the boys a ride to Keddie(she said she needed to get the video of the documentary because she thought that was on it)
She wished she had never appeared on the documentary but it was spilt milk.
I personally think that she allowed the Meeks, her relationship with Wade, and her possible concern over Justin to influence what she did and said at that time. I really believe in 2006 she wanted to know what happened and I really think she thought the boys knew. She did say that Doug talked to her and Justin in his car and didn't know if it was Sue or Tina in the cabin but Justin said Tina was missing look for her down by the river. She also said at first Doug thought the kids might have gotten at Sue but Justin put a stop to that by saying Tina was missing.
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Post by Michele on May 31, 2018 22:31:55 GMT -6
H e l l o. Dmac has gone on another rant and shut the 28 website down. I’m Sure it’s for good this time. I think for his emotional well-being it’s for the best. He has been posting crazier rants than usual lately.
Is this the only other forum site?
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Post by Admin Horan on Jun 1, 2018 8:16:57 GMT -6
Hi, Michelle! Thanks for posting! I don't know if we're the "only" other forum, but I assure you, we're the only "unbiased" one. I don't play favorites. I'm not the least bit convinced Marty and Bo are guilty, but I could easily be wrong--there just isn't enough to go on at this time. My "agenda" is to pressure Hagwood into releasing the rest of the police files, etc. Otherwise, post away!
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Post by Michele on Jun 1, 2018 10:48:24 GMT -6
Hi, Michelle! Thanks for posting! I don't know if we're the "only" other forum, but I assure you, we're the only "unbiased" one. I don't play favorites. I'm not the least bit convinced Marty and Bo are guilty, but I could easily be wrong--there just isn't enough to go on at this time. My "agenda" is to pressure Hagwood into releasing the rest of the police files, etc. Otherwise, post away! Hi Admin Horan, It would be great to have more information. Are you in contact with Hagwood? I Will probably join this site. I’ve read some posts and this seems to be a “safe” and productive environment. Thank you 😃
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Post by kmik on Jun 1, 2018 11:47:06 GMT -6
Michele, is there any particular information you are looking for (aside from what has never been released)? The best thing to do is look at the timeline, Shaver report, Story evidence report, Justin's hypnosis sessions, autopsy reports, any reports (such as Tina's molesting) and any snippets of statements made to police. There has only been 2 full interviews released to the public and that was Marty and Bo's so when trying to analyze those just remember there is nobody else's to compare them to (no Meeks, Sharps, Davis, Seabolts, Williams, Beckley, Walke, Thompson, Spang, Shearer, Alvey, etc...).
We do have reports of interviews with Marilyn, Walke, and Thompson, but no word for word interviews (which we know the police have). Dmac shutting down his forum? Don't worry he'll be back. The downhill plunge of his emotional state (which, trust me, has been going on for YEARS) is self induced. This case hasn't driven anyone else over the edge and I assure you he is not the only person who studies this case 24/7.
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Post by Michele on Jun 1, 2018 14:54:00 GMT -6
Hello Kmik,
I have read a lot on the 28 site. I was just interested to see if there is any other information that has not been made public.
I keep an open mind but I do see where Martin could be the likely culprit only based on some of the following reasons:
1. Therapist confession 2. Statement “Justin Could have seen something w/out ME detecting him”. 3. In his very 1st interview (days after the murders) he mentions victims hit with hammer & the tapping of the hands this way and that (how known?). 4. In the area...Walking past the victims house at least 4 diffferent times. 5. Says they went back to bar around 1am...screams heard a little after that. 6. His extreme temper & drug use 7. Disappeared to “Reno” the following day. 8. Missing hammer (how ironic).
What I do not see is any proof of Marilyn’s involvement...
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Post by raemen2 on Jun 1, 2018 14:57:01 GMT -6
He also edited and/ or deleted the foul mouthed tirade and attack he and another poster that went on with Marilyn's daughter over at K28 on Facebook.
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Post by Michele on Jun 1, 2018 15:09:03 GMT -6
He also edited and/ or deleted the foul mouthed tirade and attack he and another poster that went on with Marilyn's daughter over at K28 on Facebook. Did he delete it? That was terrible! I have never heard such vile garbage in my entire life. I can’t imagine what I would want to do to him if he was speaking about my mother that way. Even tells her go “F” your brother. Lori does not deserve that. Even if Her Mom was guilty...that’s not Loris fault😑.
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Post by kmik on Jun 1, 2018 15:53:42 GMT -6
Well I'm not trying to sway anyone's belief that Marty was involved because we do not know. I just don't see any evidence of it beyond speculation mainly years after the murders.
Here are my thoughts:
1. Therapist confession: Show us written documents of exactly what was said and how this confession came to be. The therapist's neighbor, Dr. Cheeseman, that reported this to the PCSO, was a Plumas county therapist and these murders were big news. Marty's therapist knew where Marty lived and for all we know he's the one who brought up the murders to Marty. Seems this became important to Marty's therapist when Josh tracked him down 28 plus years later to question him.
2. If you read what Marty is discussing before this was said he was talking about how Justin would often wake up when Marty got up to stoke the fire. If Marty was in 28 Justin didn't have to "detect" him he knew he was there.
3. How would Marty have known about the victims hands and the hammer? Justin by his own admission went into the living room. If we are discussing this case 37 years later there is no doubt Marty, Marilyn, and Bo questioned Justin endlessly the day of the murders since he was in the cabin. I believe Justin told them things they never ever told the police. Plus Don Davis ID'd the bodies and I'm sure told Sheila who in turn told the Meeks who in turn discussed it with the Smartts. This was probably common knowledge a day or two after the murders.
4. This was the shortest route to their cabin they had to go past 28. Read Timeline A. and you'll see that Marty and Bo were not the only one's who made more than one trip to the bar.
5. We have no idea if the scream (only heard by 2) was even connected to the murders. At 1:15 there were MANY people in Keddie wide awake and out and about.
6. No proof that his temper was any worse than the next guys and as for his drug use - there were probably a lot of people in Keddie on drugs. Didn't Mike G. make a statement in the last article about knowing a big drug house that was in Keddie at the time?
5. Marty's interview was on Tuesday April 14, 1981 and he said he went to Reno the day before (Monday, 13, 1981) this is also what Marilyn and the Meeks said "the day after the murders". Over the years Sunday became the day he supposedly went to Reno but that's not what he nor they told.
6. Please don't even get me started on the guy finding the hammer while looking for a ring that was lost at a wedding he attended in Keddie (was it lost in the pond?) and then reported to Dmac and not the police?? Yep it's ironic
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Post by kmik on Jun 1, 2018 21:26:24 GMT -6
I would like to add that Art Jawad was a student who lived in Cabin 11(?) with James Jones.
From Timeline A:
810411-2330c Arthur Jawad walks from his cabin to Back Door Bar & buys 2 beers. <Arthur Jawad / Bradley>
810412-0045c Art Jawad leaves his residence & tells James Jones he is going to Kathy Boscoe's house to spend the night. <James Jones / Stoy>
810412-0045c Mike Malone arrives at Art Jawad & James Jones cabin about the time Jawad leaves & the two watch Saturday Night Live. <James .Jones / Stoy>
810412-0100c Arthur Jawad walks back to Back Door Bar. <Arthur Jawad / Bradley> Mike Malone leaves James Jones & Art Jawad's cabin. <James Jones / Stoy>
810412-0115c (0115-0120) Arthur Jawad leaves Back Door Bar and sees old P/U in parking lot. Does not hear any dogs barking. <Arthur Jawad / Bradley>
810412-0130c James Jones goes to bed at his Keddie cabin & Jawad is not there. <James Jones / Stoy>
Kathy Bosco lived in the cabin next to the Albins. She never mentioned Art Jawad coming to her cabin although she did say she got up around 4:00am and saw the back porch light on at the Sharps. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but Art Jawad was also in a report as being one of 3 people who were given a polygraph test.
According to the timeline Jack McLean is someone else who made 2 trips to the bar and Dana Green (I think this was the female Dana Green) left and returned to the bar with a friend.
Throw Mike Malone in the mix as the guy who came to James and Art"s cabin around midnight. Is this the Mike M. Jan Albin thought was a devil worshipper? When the police asked Chuck if anyone might have seen them in Keddie that night he said Mike M might have. When Mike M. was questioned about seeing Chuck in Keddie he said he didn't remember. (Makes me wonder why Chuck thought anyone saw them if they only dropped into Keddie to see Tom Schmid - whom they never saw). This case was a cluster without even mentioning Marty Smartt.
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Post by mamadawg on Jun 2, 2018 19:42:11 GMT -6
I was a part of the 28 forum for quite a while. I didn't post very often as I didn't want to get cussed out or ganged up on. The way people were talked to was just brutal. I've been thinking that Dmac has some serious mental problems for some time now. When I read how Joe McPlumber was being treated here, it felt a little like the 28 forum. Whether or not you agree with him, he's pretty level headed and is an excellent source of information. I never got the impression he had something to hide or lie about, but that's just me. I really hope that there's no bullying here and that this a place where ideas are welcomed, even if you disagree with them. Justice said this was a safe place. I hope he was right.
I think Marty and Bo were the killers. Yes the evidence is circumstantial, but there's a lot of it. The argument that Marty was too much of a wimp to be a killer doesn't fly with me. I worked with someone that was a serial killer and LE is not sure how many people he killed, maybe in the hundreds. None of us that worked him could believe it, he was a major wimp. Frankly, I can't believe I know a serial killer, but I do. I'm not convinced Sue was the target and I'm not convinced that Tina wasn't. I do think the boys were awake and that Justin and Rick know what happened. Bo and the Mafia? I don't know, way out there in my opinion. I think Marilyn and Justin were involved, but I'm not sure to what extent. In my opinion, the Meeks weren't involved.
The thing that bothered me so much about the 28 forum was the vulgar way the children (now adults) were treated and talked about. They were savaged by the murders, then they get savaged by that forum, not fair. They've been through enough, leave them alone. Despite that, Justin needs to talk. He needs to come clean, no matter what it is. It's time.
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