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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 14, 2017 21:58:58 GMT -6
How much noise would two or three or four teenaged boys make on a Saturday night if no one was murdering anyone? I don't think the murders were all that loud. A neighbor apparently heard Sue scream at 1:15, but even if that woke up the boys, would they even think it was unusual? We're not talking about the Brady Bunch. Domestic violence was the NORM in the Sharp family, in Justin's family, in Dana's family. Teenaged boys fight all the time. It's normal. The question is not, "Why didn't they wake up?" The question is, "Why would they?"
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Post by kmik on Jul 15, 2017 5:50:19 GMT -6
Yes the murders may have happened quickly and nobody had time to really scream. Two different articles in the FRB refer to it as a "groan" that was heard but the summary on the timeline said "scream". At 1:15a.m. Keddie was very much alive with many coming and going.
For us I think it's hard to believe (even if Ricky and Greg slept through this) that Justin didn't wake them up out of pure panic to ask what was going on in their house. The noise must not have been normal for Justin because he didn't sleep through it. Justin told many stories but he put himself as a witness to the murders right down to trying to stop the bleeding on Sue (the police go over this on their recording of the crime scene photos). So we know he saw these bodies on the living room floor (whether he was involved or curious). Was he so unaffected by what he saw that he went on back to the bedroom and went to sleep until he was pulled out of the window all the while knowing that Sue, Johnny, and Dana were dead, and Tina was missing but didn't even wake the boys to tell them? We can't believe that they were all still asleep at 8:30 the next morning especially 5 year old Greg who went to bed early.
Before we knew there were clothes laying in the doorway preventing the door from being closed to their room it was easy to say," yes they possibly slept through this". Many probably wonder does it really even matter? Yes, it definitely does but we will probably never know if they did or didn't.
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Post by kmik on Jul 19, 2017 16:10:15 GMT -6
I also think it is important to remember that Justin was sleeping on the top of a cheap metal (no doubt squeaky) bunk bed.
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Post by kmik on Jul 25, 2017 21:55:05 GMT -6
Dmac should be so relieved that I do not have a FB account. He types so fast he doesn't even take time to think about what he says.
1. If he believes (as I do) that the boys were awake during the murders but were threatened then they should remember WHY they woke up and by WHOM they were threatened.
2. He shouldn't find it funny at all that he hasn't seen any crime scene log sheet with any mentions of findings in the boys room because he hasn't seen all the information (same reason he hasn't seen any CS photo's of the basement or bathroom (from which we know evidence was taken). Maybe his buddy Mike can explain to him why he isn't privy to that information.
3. He honestly needs to admit that he has no idea if Sue was out trolling for spend the night company, "IN SOUTH KEDDIE", on the night of the murders. He is getting this straight from someone who claimed he was told this by his mom years after the fact - (and I was in chat when this person was questioned and he said it was Marilyn not Sue who asked if he could spend the night - needless to say the discussion ended there, but not Dmac's endless tale.
4. He's quick to remind everyone that Sheila's first, get together, after her return from Oregon went down in flames. According to the PON list she had spend the night company just a week before the murders (Karrie Best). So she'd already had at least one get together.
5. Something else he shares often is that he nailed Marilyn to the wall when she joined the forum last year. Maybe I missed something but I've read nothing that ANYONE said that nailed her to the wall.
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Post by cancersucks on Jul 26, 2017 16:52:21 GMT -6
1 - This is why I still firmly believe that the killer(s) are still alive and the boys are still afraid of them even though they're adults now.
2 - Right. Because the info that got out to the public is only what LE wanted to get out. I'm sure there's so much more under lock and key.
3 - That never had the ring of truth to it. Sue was shy. She was poor. And she had a house full of kids to take care of anyway.
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Post by meankitty on Jul 27, 2017 13:57:55 GMT -6
Kmik, I didn't know about #3 on the list about Sue trolling around for sleepover company. Could you tell me more about this incident in chat, if not here then in an email.
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Post by kmik on Jul 28, 2017 6:04:31 GMT -6
Dmac is getting this story from someone who was a kid living in Keddie at the time of the murders. This person got the story years later from his mom. But according to the info we have this guy's mom was gone all day from Keddie and did not return until 9:00pm that night.
In 2015 this person was in chat with me, Butterfly Valley, and Dmac. He told the story but told us it was Marilyn who knocked on his door. Butterfly Valley and I were confused because we thought Sue was the one out knocking on doors so we asked who he was talking about Sue or Marilyn and he said Marilyn. And he wasn't confused on who he was talking about because he had just told us what a bully that Justin was to him. He said there was no way his mom was letting him stay with him because they weren't even friends. It was very clear he was talking about Justin and very clear he was talking about Marilyn (he even described her as looking wild). But according to the info we have this guy's mom was not even home until 9:00pm that night so I don't think that it was Marilyn or Sue. I don't think he intentionally lied I just think he was relying on someone else's memory. And whether he lied or not he said it was Marilyn not Sue.
Dmac later emailed us and said this person was just confused because he was remembering a story that was told to him by his mom. Pretty sure I have that email. My sister was not able to be in chat that night but the chat was still up the next day and we went over and over it because we were so surprised. Can not believe that the story of Sue trolling for company is still told as fact. And people are still soaking it up like a sponge because it satisfies their minds that Sue was so scared that night that she was trying to round up a bunch of kids to protect her. (where is the logic in that?)
When Marilyn posted on Dmac's forum last year she said she couldn't imagine Sue asking for anyone's kids to spend the night because she didn't even ask for her (Marilyn's) kids to spend the night. I don't know - Marilyn may be a liar - but I'd have to agree with her on that one.
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Post by cancersucks on Jul 30, 2017 16:51:46 GMT -6
See, that's what I said. From all I've read about Sue's personality (and finances), I never believed she'd knock on doors asking for kids to stay over. Marilyn doing it makes a whole lot more sense to me. Thanks for posting that!
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Post by kmik on Jul 30, 2017 17:02:58 GMT -6
According to the PON list Marilyn nor Sue were out knocking on doors that night. Maybe another night but not that one.
Cancer, I hope people understand that me nor my sister ever set out to turn anyone against Dmac's theory - but it was things like this and the inability to question it on his forum (although we tried) that turned us.
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Post by cancersucks on Jul 31, 2017 16:06:53 GMT -6
kmik - I fully understand what you're saying. I read his theory. In my mind I questioned a couple things but after seeing how nasty he got with people I'm not going to question it either. When I did make post about the full version of the love letter on a different site, I got blasted by him. As you know, I'm in a fight for my life and I will not tolerate someone berating me because I question something. IMO, someone who has a good theory will politely answer the question, explain their side of it then wait for the person to respond and continue the conversation like adults. If they have something to hide or aren't sure, they scream, curse, bully and berate people who question them so they can beat their opinion into that person.
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Post by kmik on Aug 1, 2017 10:35:52 GMT -6
I agree and since none of us were there and the police aren't depending on us to solve this case then anyone's opinion is as good as ours.
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Post by kmik on Aug 7, 2017 15:07:12 GMT -6
From PON list:
AVERY, WILLIAM
Lived Keddie, Tina at his house 4/11/81 @ 1930 to get Greg Sharp who was playing with his son
If Sue was out trolling for company why didn't she pick up Greg from the Avery's house instead of sending Tina? No mention of Mr. Avery's kid being invited by anyone to spend the night in 28.
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Post by cancersucks on Aug 11, 2017 11:17:03 GMT -6
Because that whole bit about her trolling for kids is made up.
It's been quite a few weeks since dmac posted about Justin's DNA in the kill zone. I've been watching for an arrest or update everywhere. What's happening? I still haven't seen a thing.
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Post by kmik on Aug 11, 2017 16:04:37 GMT -6
Yes Cancer if Justin's DNA is in the "KILL ZONE" and possibly on a "weapon" then I would think that would be enough to at least arrest him so that maybe the police could question him more. We have no idea if Justin had anything to do with the murders at all - and we've also not heard about his DNA match from anyone but Dmac. So until the police confirm that it's just suspicion (and certainly not anything that many of us haven't already suspicioned).
My thoughts are if Justin's DNA is on anything (medical tape, weapons, door knob) then he was fully aware of the murders in 28. A few days ago someone posted on 28 that they always knew there was no way Justin, "could have slept in a room right next to where these people were being murdered so horrifically and not even known about it". But the poster made no mention of Ricky who was also sleeping in the same room and the very one who said he did sleep through it. What Justin told is far more believable.
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Post by cancersucks on Aug 11, 2017 18:21:42 GMT -6
It's been so long since dmac posted that. I would think the police would have picked Justin up long before now even if it was just for questioning.
Admin Horan had written previously about noise. The only thing I can think of is that Ricky would have been used to lots of noise with 4 siblings, their friends, a mother, previously a father, cousins, friends, etc. in all the places the family stayed over time. Justin wouldn't have been the same. Just 1 brother, mother, stepfather, Bo for 2 wks. It would have been a much quieter environment for him to sleep.
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