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Post by justcurious on May 6, 2018 15:28:49 GMT -6
Thank you Admin Horan, I found what I wanted. This is speculation but I haven’t seen it anywhere else, also it does match the evidence.
Pair of glasses on TV tray between beds in west BR (girls)
All the photographs of Sue that I’ve seen show her wearing glasses. She must have been near sited as reading glasses wouldn’t be worn in dressed up family photos or exiting a car. Anyone who wears prescription glasses can tell you that they are expensive especially for a single mom of 5. As such she would have treated her glasses with care as they were not easy to replace. Sue would have taking off her glasses when she went to bed that night and put them on the night stand where they were found after the murders. The location of Sue’s glasses also tell us that she was sleeping in the bedroom at the time the attack started. The attack most likely started with Sue or Tina in the girls / Sues bedroom as she would have grabbed her glasses first and possibly turned on a light if she was woken by noises in the other room of the boys being attacked.
Another thing I have been pondering (so please don’t take my head off) is that a sexual assault on Sue really can’t be ruled out just because LE didn’t find semen. The attack may have been interrupted by the boys’ entry into the house before any kind penetration or ejaculation happened. Sue was killed wearing a Muu Muu (not the most flattering or sexy garment but comfy) and a bra. Sue was petite and it doesn’t appear that she was physically endowed enough in the chest area to require wearing a bra at night. It’s just a guess, but I think that she was wearing the panties (that was later used as a gag) and bra for modesties sake because the neighbor boys Dana and Justin were staying in the house that night. Also, the underwear had to be removed before the tape was placed around her ankles or you wouldn’t be able to get them off. If someone was trying to stage the underwear they would have had to go into the girls bedroom and riffle through multiple drawers trying to find Sue’s underwear verses Sheila’s or Tina’s. That would have been one really calm killer(s) if he/she took the time not to make a mess out of searching those drawers.
It is remarkable to me that LE didn't search every nook and corner. I really is odd.
Curious what you think,
Just Curious
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Post by raemen2 on May 6, 2018 17:25:17 GMT -6
....it's also quite remarkable that Sheila and the Seabolt boy did not go to John's bedroom to look for Tina or Sue ( as there is some initial confusion who was under the blanket) while they where removing the boys through the cabin window. If they didn't tell LE to check John's room for Tina, to me, it implies the kids knew Tina wasn't down there. I don't believe for a minute that LE was not in that bedroom,
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Post by karis on May 6, 2018 19:43:06 GMT -6
I've never thought about that but why didn't the kids check the basement? Good thought. Gamberg said in the recent article that he does not have anything on the basement. I feel the police did check that since they were at 28 and collected evidence for many days after the murders.
Jc, it has been insinuated that Sue's panties were cut off of her because of a nick in that area and maybe the panties were cut. If she woke up just from hearing a scuffle in the living room it's possible she didn't grab the glasses.
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Post by justcurious on May 6, 2018 20:27:37 GMT -6
Hello Karis, Sue had 5 kids and 1 bathroom - I'm pretty sure she was used to hearing screaming and yelling from the kids. I don,t know if she heard a ruckus from the living room at anytime day or night that she would assume it was something she would have to get up for. Me personally, I put my glasses on for anything other than a trip to the bathroom at night. Even at that, it,s just too easy to trip, kick and run into things when it,s dark AND blurry.
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Post by karis on May 6, 2018 20:59:02 GMT -6
I also have prescription glasses that I seldom wear unless reading or driving at night. I was a single mom who raised 3 kids and any friend they drug to my house.
Everybody is different but on weekends if I went to bed they were free to stay up later but only without yelling or the tv blaring. And if I heard any of that going on I would have gotten out of bed without glasses. But I can only speak for myself and can't speak on how Sue conducted her house everyone's reactions are not the same
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Post by justcurious on May 6, 2018 22:34:48 GMT -6
Very true! As they say, I'm as blind as a bat without mine.
I was thinking about LE not looking in John's room but maybe since Sheriff Thomas lived at 28 before Sue and kids, he only thought of that as a storage room. The boys room also had two beds and a cot in it so that equals the number of boys living in the house. Who would even think to question it. (I think I spend as much time writing my post as I do going back and fixing the autocorrect changes)😆
That and some people in LE see poor communities as where the criminals live so people who live there tend to be looked at as throw away people. I hope I'm wording that right. Don't want to offend anyone.
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Post by karis on May 7, 2018 5:53:08 GMT -6
I know that Dmac says Doug lived in 28 but we have no proof of that (not that it would even matter). We also don't know how many beds were in the basement or how it was arranged. I don't imagine the guys working for the PCSO were rich and as a matter of fact Dennis Forcino had a lot of family that had lived in Keddie. A lot of people living in Quincy were just as poor as the people in Keddie. And don't worry offending anybody here.
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Post by justcurious on May 7, 2018 23:29:22 GMT -6
It was probably Dmacs site that I saw that on, I signed up on both sites at the same time looking for the police records. A FB page I watch on Butte county crimes had a large post on the murders about a month ago so I've been interested in it since. I read that some of the people involved now/did live in Butte. Wondering if they are still located here. Thought for a moment I might see something that others haven't in this case but am now realizing how overwhelmingly confused with rumor/hearsay/loss of evidence etc. this case has become over the years. Unless/until DNA comes in don't think it will be solved.
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Post by kmik on May 8, 2018 7:15:04 GMT -6
Are you familiar with camp 18 area? Karis and I would like to know if Tina's case is a Butte County or Plumas County cases.
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Post by Admin Horan on May 8, 2018 13:39:25 GMT -6
Curious: Well, it's funny you should ask, because no one has ever seen any evidence that anyone ever looked in the basement. For all we know, Tina was hiding in the basement.
Funny, because, Sheila and Jamie didn't look in the basement, either. Supposedly.
Now then, according the crime scene photos, Sue had a LOT of blood squished up between her toes. That can't be her blood, and Dana was only choked to death. Sooooo, that HAS to be Johnny's blood. And since Sue couldn't have walked through a puddle of Johnny's blood AFTER she had been tied up and gagged, and since she couldn't have gotten defensive wounds on her hands and arms AFTER she was tied up and gagged, we know that Johnny was dead BEFORE Sue was beaten, tied up, and gagged.
The conclusion is obvious and simple: Sue woke up, in the girls bedroom, came out to the living room, interrupted whoever just as they were about to cut Dana's throat, got shot once with the pellet gun, beaten, and then tied up and gagged.
In other words, Sue was NOT the "original target." See what I mean? In fact, it looks like they didn't want to kill her, at all. They may have even left her alive, and then someone else--Justin--killed her after they left.
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Post by kmik on May 9, 2018 5:16:29 GMT -6
I do feel like the police went through the basement (not sure about collecting evidence). We know they went in after Phillips story which was in May. They were outside taking pictures of 28 the week of the murders so no doubt they went in there but obviously there wasn't much in the basement. All of this basement talk just makes me wonder if the basement was really Johnny's "bedroom". Maybe this was just a room he hung out in, and if he had company then possibly they slept there (he was at the Meeks every Friday night). The cot in the boys room upstairs just seem to indicate that 3 people normally slept in that room. I can't see Sue having the extra money to furnish a bedroom for Johnny plus have an extra cot upstairs.
Sheila told in her book that Alysa had a room similar to Johnny's basement room but on the documentary Zonita said Sheila slept on the couch (I'm assuming in the living room). If the Seabolts had a basement room why not give it to Jamie who was older? Maybe these rooms were just to hang out in (and possibly sleep in in warmer weather)? |
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Post by justcurious on May 9, 2018 22:52:04 GMT -6
Admin Horan and Kmik, I've only lived in Butte county for a few years. I had seen in a different post here that someone thought the murderer might be tied to the mill. That may have been too early though, so I asked a friend if camp 18 was a hunting spot. He said yes it is and in the tag D area. Suppose to have a lot of little streams around it. I don't know if hunting tags were issued that far back but if they were it might be interesting to see if anyone's name pops up that is connected to Keddie. As far as staying in the basement, I thought I read somewhere that the temps on the 11th was 54 degrees for the high. Unless that storage area had electricity that could power a space heater,it would have been really cold at night. Also basement might not be the right description for the room since it isn't underground. The way they build here is by using a raised floor due to the ground not being level. When that's done there are areas under a house can be almost a second story below the house level that is empty area(think of a room high crawl space). I would imagine that the room was utilizing that area. I would go to camp 18 but most of the SO and BLK roads are now locked closed in Butte.
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Post by kmik on May 10, 2018 7:48:57 GMT -6
Basement is probably not the right word. The weather report is on the same page as the murders so you are right it wasn't hot. Good thought on someone possibly hunting in that area and probably why the police asked Marilyn in 1984 if Marty hunted or fished. Someone had to be familiar with that particular spot. I think that's why Dmac drags so many into the murders because somebody has to be connected to that area! I wonder if the police were able to or tried to go back and look for people who had permission to hunt or fish there or even owned land close by
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Post by jmo on May 10, 2018 16:09:02 GMT -6
Wow. We call them "crawl space". But, super good point. Why didn't they look for Tina there? It amazes me what I don't think of... and what other people do. Two. Thumbs. Up.
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Post by kmik on May 10, 2018 20:15:13 GMT -6
So glad we have this forum (thank you Tom Horan)! We are able to discuss this case as a group just like we used to do on MK and Meanie's forums. So many good points have been brought up here that we have never even thought of. So glad our little group is always thinking outside the box. And always love to hear from anyone familiar with the area.
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