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Post by Admin Horan on Oct 4, 2020 5:23:12 GMT -6
BPD have publicly "exonerated" the Whites THREE TIMES. You only have to exonerate suspects. Not "witnesses." And the shielding of suspects in this case was done by higher UPs, not police or even coroner's office. Just higher ups. They even bent over backwards to make sure the most recent DNA "tests" exonerated the Ramseys and the Whites. A grand jury indicted both parents, but the DA effectively quashed the indictment. And they were the ones who put on the case for the grand jury.
One ME was 100 percent certain JBR had been raped (whether by object like a paintbrush handle, or human fingers, or SOMETHING) not only at the time of her death, but probably on prior occasions as well. Another ME bent over backwards to disagree. What for? What good would that do the VICTIM?
Every minute that went by, the Ramseys cooperated less and less. And that's by far the most generous thing you can say about them.
And there's one (snicker) more thing: For 25 years, there has been all this argument over how the "intruder(s) got IN the house." But, how did they get OUT?
Brief rundown on Fleet Russell White, III: US Naval Academy. London School of Economics (a BIG hairy deal, BTW) American University Law School. Senate Liaison US Navy; Senate liaison US Secretary of the Navy. His father's sister, Lani White, is--gasp!--a real estate broker in--gasp!--Aspen, CO.
No information available for John Ramsey's buddy Fleet R White II. Funny, that. But apparently, his full name is technically Russell Fleet White II, not Fleet Russell. What's the diff? Probably to distinguish himself from his father, Russell Fleet White, Sr.
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Post by marionumber1 on Oct 4, 2020 1:02:13 GMT -6
There is a sub-forum on this site to discuss the 1996 murder of JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder CO. One of the oddest characters in the whole case is oil company executive Fleet White Jr., the best friend of JonBenet's father John Ramsey. Fleet grew up in California before moving to Boulder CO sometime in the 90s, following his father Fleet White Sr. (owner of the oil business that employed Fleet Jr.) who was a California native largely relocated to Aspen CO. When Fleet Sr. grew up in Southern California, he was good friends with a man named Gordon Christoff. The families remained close into their adult years and Fleet Sr. even become the godfather to Gordon's daughter Gwen Christoff (later Gwen Krebs). In February 2000, a California woman named Nancy Krebs came forward to claim that she had been abused since childhood by a pedophile ring with links to key people from the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. From the time she was a toddler, Nancy's mother Gwen Krebs purportedly allowed her to be abused by numerous adult men with links to the family. Those men included Thomas Boykin and Macky Boykin, sleazy members of a working-class family in Trona CA who all worked for the local Kerr-McGee plant, as well as Fleet White Sr. (the apparent ringleader), Fleet White Jr., and John Ramsey. Nancy's abuse precisely mirrored the same kind of injuries that JonBenet suffered at her death, she had documentation linking her to the Whites, and Boulder law enforcement never once disputed her account of her abuse. However, the Boulder police claimed that her information had no connection to the Ramsey case and closed the books on it. Rather remarkable considering that she implicated JonBenet's father and his closest friend in child sexual abuse that matched what happened to JonBenet. Nancy's story has many rabbit holes, but the one most relevant to this Manson sub-forum is Gwen Krebs's alleged association with Manson Family member Catherine Gillies. Gillies' maternal grandparents owned Myers Ranch, in Death Valley near Trona CA, which the Family briefly relocated to after their stay at Spahn Ranch before moving into the nearby Barker Ranch. It just so happens that Nancy not only claimed her mother was friends with Gillies, but that she had taken Nancy to the Family's ranch out in Death Valley circa 1968, when Nancy was just 6 or 7. Nancy also claimed that her abusers had once shown her items purportedly taken from the LaBianca home to intimidate her with their power and influence. So if Nancy's story is true, there would appear to be a direct link between Fleet White Sr.'s ring of child abusers and the group of people behind the murders attributed to the Family. Of course, we don't have much besides Nancy's own words, but the pieces fit well. Gwen was living in the same area around Trona that the Manson Family was staying at, and the Inyo County DA LaJoie "Buck" Gibbons who prosecuted one of Nancy's abusers Macky Boykin had formerly prosecuted the Manson gang after their 1969 arrest in Death Valley. Purportedly, there is a photo from one of the ranch raids with children being taken out and rounded up by the police, and one of them might be a young blond girl who looked like Nancy. I have never been able to find this photo myself, however. It is quite interesting to consider the possibility that two of the biggest murder cases of the 20th century, the Manson murders and the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, could be linked. But nothing will likely surprise readers of this forum anymore. |
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Post by marionumber1 on Oct 3, 2020 21:07:24 GMT -6
It seems likely to me that the whole drama of John Ramsey and Fleet White turning on each other was to save their own asses after they were put under the spotlight. Fleet probably figured he could deflect the attention away from himself by making it look like the Ramseys (particularly Burke) were the sole culprits, covertly using henchmen of his like Tal Jones and (I suspect) Thomas Cecil "Doc" Miller to push these narratives while assailing the Boulder DA's office for a cover-up protecting the Ramseys. John conversely has hinted at the guilt of every one of his former friends, especially Fleet, while acting as if the Boulder police have been conspiring against him and his family. Or maybe it was even largely for show. Looking at their actions in tandem, it feels like John and Fleet were pushing equal and opposite narratives of the case, designed to force observers of the case to choose between two false narratives: only one of the Ramseys did it (RDI) and everyone else is totally innocent, or an intruder did it (IDI) and the Ramseys are totally innocent. Maybe there were fueling an intentional false dichotomy and laughing it up behind the scenes. You also have some weird actions where both sides appear to defend each other even after their apparent split. John denied under oath in the deposition for the Stephen Miles case that any altercation happened with Fleet in Atlanta despite multiple witnesses and his own words in his book he later published. Fleet and his wife initially backed Mary Keenan as the new Boulder DA, even though Keenan was involved in an incident of the DA's office trying to gain unauthorized access to "war room" police files, and their supposed ally at the Boulder PD Steve Thomas thoroughly despised Keenan as corrupt. Nancy Krebs's lawyer Lee Hill opined that "the break down of communicaiton between the families was just superfuge" and "Much of the secaration was for show; just an apparent separation". He also expressed a belief that the Ramseys and Whites knew each other long before their official first meeting in Boulder in 1994, which I believe to be the case. |
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Post by Admin Horan on Oct 3, 2020 20:49:49 GMT -6
I had to drastically re-edit my post above. Again. Anyway, the point is, the trace DNA that supposedly did "not" come from semen (although so little trace remained, that may not be conclusive, either) came from at least two men. John and Fleet are two men, who are the same two men who last saw...and found...
And Fleet White 1. Was allowed to search the basement by himself, at 6:15ish 2. He and Fernie are allowed to leave with Burke without being searched by police. That's the only time those panties could have left that house. In White's or Fernie's pockets. And White was in the basement ALONE before he left with Burke. So it ain't Fernie. And if JBR's panties had been removed from the house prior to 6:00 am there was no reason for Fleet to search the basement. Alone or otherwise.
And, of course, the Ramseys eventually turned on Fleet White. But they were ALL in that (particularly) sick kiddie pageant world.
I don't see any mystery. Of course, I could be wrong.
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Post by james1983 on Oct 3, 2020 19:13:35 GMT -6
That alone should have made them the number 1 suspects in my eyes. There was obviously more going on here than was reported. I always thought Mr. Ramsey removing his daughter from the cellar wasn't something an average person would do. He had to have known that doing so would contaminate the crime scene.
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Post by kmik on Oct 3, 2020 19:02:30 GMT -6
Whoyou, I don't think any of us are posting over on 28 but here you are and you write and spell an awful lot like speaktruth. I don't think Dmac considers us "full of hate" because we discuss what he says .... heck he's way out in Quincy knee deep in his work with very little time to ponder on what we think.
I didn't know we had to bring anything to the table to discuss this case. We're on a forum, not writing a book, news article, or proclaiming to have solved the case. What we have found on our own is that what 28 has "brought to the table" is a theory of Josh Hancock inspired by the Meeks and Marilyn. Our desire when Tom created this part of the forum was to discuss the lack of evidence against Marty Smart and we do - and I'm sorry if that makes you uneasy. Maybe you should stay over at 28 where your thoughts are more in line with his.
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Post by Admin Horan on Oct 3, 2020 18:46:55 GMT -6
It's super-duper simple-dimple--WTF are JonBenet's own panties? 1. They were removed from the scene of the crime (supposedly the Ramsey home.) WTF for? Only ONE possible reason--incriminating evidence, like semen. Period. IF they were removed from the Ramsey house. 2. They were LEFT at the ACTUAL scene of the crime. According to both Ramseys and the Whites, JonBenet had been at the White's Christmas party that evening, and returned home with her parents after they all dropped off some other kids at their homes. But Fleet White is the last adult person outside the family to report seeing JBR alive. He said that was in the White home as the Ramseys left the party. And John is the one who reported last seing JBR alive at all. When the last person to see the victim alive is ALSO the person who discovers--and MOVES--the body, you've got a suspect. Period. And when the TWO last people are the TWO who find the body, I don't see any mystery.
The pair that JonBenet was wearing when John produced her body and delivered it to police upstairs were from a previously unopened pack bought as a Christmas present for Patsy's 12-year-old niece. No stranger could have possibly known about the existence of those panties, even if he knew he needed to look for substitute panties. So, they were put on JonBenet by "someone" who knew they existed, and where they were. But that does NOT explain where JONBENET's panties went. At all.
IF the Ramsey's and White's are telling the truth, then JonBenet's panties were removed either at the Ramsey's, or at the White's, but she must have been killed at the Ramsey's, some other place, or BACK at the White's, and the only one that makes ANY sense is back at the Ramsey's. And that's if they're telling the truth. BPD pretty much believed the Whites were telling the truth, and that the Ramseys were not. Patsy told police a really, really stupid lie about the panties. In addition to other stupid lies. And John ALONG WITH Fleet White Jr removed JBR from the scene of the crime, which was supposedly in the "wine cellar." If John put the panties on JBR, then Fleet witnessed or helped.
I really don't see any kind of "mystery" here. (I know the BPD declared that the DNA "exonerated" the Ramsey's, but that seems to have been exaggerated, at best. Very common with DNA "evidence.") Except, of course, for the mystery of JBR's missing panties. One of Patsy's "theories" was that JBR had had yet another accident, and had gotten rid of her own panties, and cleverly swapped them for a clean pair from the package she knew her mother had bought for her cousin. Except that Patsy told police that JBR got them from the drawer in the bathroom. Which is impossible.
And it doesn't explain where her "soiled" pair went.
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Post by james1983 on Oct 3, 2020 17:11:14 GMT -6
Nice work Perry Mason. If it was so "obvious" please answer why it took them 45 years to attempt an arrest? Don't say DNA since it was so "obvious" it was Crawford.
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Post by whodunnit on Oct 3, 2020 17:01:25 GMT -6
right, you've brought NOTHING to the table I've seen but hatred, hatred, so grow up. Don't use anything DMac says, sinse he's lying poison. Tell ME what you found on yor own. NOTHING. WTG!
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Post by james1983 on Oct 3, 2020 16:48:12 GMT -6
Kinda like Fall City and Sterling in Lousville lol. That was our beer of choice back in 1999 and 2000. Especially since you could get a case for $4.99 lol. They both tasted like the aluminum can they were packaged in. My grandmother is German and made the best home brewed beer I've ever had, it tasted like Heinecken but better and a bit stronger. She also made GREAT wheat beer. When she passed away I got all her beer and wine making stuff. She brewed it in a 25 gallon stone crock, it has a cast iron stand with the heating element underneath. It's over a hundred years old for sure. I also have about 40 old 7 up bottles from the 50s that she always bottled it in. Man her wine was great too. She made grape and strawberry wine. I remember helping her press the grapes when I was a kid. Damn I miss granny lol
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Omega
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by Omega on Oct 3, 2020 16:18:42 GMT -6
Kinda funny that good ole' Jimmy B. would get the name "DIEL" wrong, because back in the day he was hawking a local New York brew called "PIEL'S"! (named after the Piel brewing family)
It would definitely fall into the category of the Professor's Milwaukee's Worst tip jar!
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Post by james1983 on Oct 3, 2020 15:51:58 GMT -6
Honestly I'm not sure how John Diel/Diehl spelled his last name. Jimmy Breslin spelled it Diehl as did other journalists. July 1 1999 Los Angeles times article "horror of Sam"
"The nights were long and great and then it all turned serious. On Jan. 29, 1977, in the brick plaza in front of the Forest Hills Inn, Christine Freund, 26, sat in the car with her boyfriend, John Diehl, 30. They were about to go off after seeing a movie up the street and now a pudgy guy with a wool watch cap on ran up to the car and held a gun out in both hands and fired three shots through the passenger window and into Christine Freund’s head. She died. I lived four blocks from the shooting."
Maybe they were typos and meant Diel. Even if it were Diehl I doubt they were related. There's Diehls where I live in the Mid West. The chance they are related is really slim, but I've seen many "coincidences" throughout many different cases though.
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Post by kmik on Oct 3, 2020 15:49:08 GMT -6
Forgive me I had no idea that bundle of white was evidence bags, sure looks large and an awful lot like bedding to me
Can't tell from the photos if the hampster(s) are in the cage or missing but the cat obviously survived. Still doesn't make it impossible that a fight started in 28 over the treatment of animals -
No I just want to see any evidence against Marty that cannot be traced back to Richard and Glenna Meeks and Marilyn.
Your love for dmc is of no interest to me but if you actually have any thoughts of your own to post why in the world would you even have to mention dmac? He's a forum administrator not investigator - we love to hear people's thoughts and opinions
Hate? Have you actually been over to 28?
Work? Work? Karis and I closed up shop last year after 22 years in business for ourselves and we're certainly not looking to do any "work" for anyone other than ourselves - this is not our job just something we enjoy researching
What place would that be?
Don't ruin what he's got right? What's he got right? Honey months after being banned from his forum we all tried to come together on Meanies old forum and help him only to be bitten once again - but you know what they say about a snake - no matter how much skin it sheds it's still a snake
Look we're here to discuss this case and if it get's "solved" tomorrow and I'm wrong about anything I won't be out anything but maybe a little time -
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getem
New Member
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Post by getem on Oct 3, 2020 15:08:22 GMT -6
Maybe this is the answer to Vickie's brilliant question:
I love this. I love when a whole line of BS is shot down in minutes....with proof. |
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Post by karis on Oct 3, 2020 14:49:09 GMT -6
I don't understand your post. Your are free to express yourself on this forum, as are we. We are not bashing dmac. Please tell me, in case i have overlooked it, what has dmac got right, on his own?
I am sorry, I thought this was your first post. I will go back and read anything you have written. And as for "open to new ideas" you obviously haven't read this forum thoroughly.
I could care less about his strengths, they are ruined by his vile language and his HATE. I can not take anyone seriously that acts that way. Maybe you can and great for you but i cannot.
We are researching a MURDER.. This murder was brought on by hate. He just reeks of it, so no, i cannot take him seriously. When you post you have "defecated" on a grave, sorry, that is not someone I believe to be credible. When you wish certain people dead, i can not take you seriously. When you express your politics, followed up by wishing for the death of a president, you are too unhinged for me to take you seriously.
Once again, "at least he put Josh in his place", WHO CARES!!! THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENED IN KEDDIE.
Hey don't worry about this forum. Only about 4 of us really post. It is mainly me and Kmik. Nothing we say is keeping anyone away from his forum. Most people think he has the key to unlock a case that no one else has been able to, not even Mike. Well I am not one of those people. I am not impressed with Victoria or Mike as his assistant. Now if he were out there working with the new the new sheriff maybe I might think he is on to something. But nah....
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