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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 13, 2020 9:41:47 GMT -6
I don't see anything wrong with people seeing how we self-correct. That's at least as important as the information itself.
If you need to be able to create threads somewhere, LET ME KNOW. It was probably an oversight.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 13, 2020 9:39:34 GMT -6
I'm confused. You're not saying OJ was INNOCENT, are you?
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 13, 2020 9:34:19 GMT -6
I would say it's a neo-Gnostic (that is, Templar/Masonic) movement in Talmudic (in Spain, Portugal, and Morocco) Judaism. In THAT sense, you might say it predates the 3rd Century AD. Remember, Moses DeLeon was contemporary with Roger Bacon, Ramon Llull, and Albertus Magnus. And yes, tragically, a lot of people believe in this gobbledegook. Tragic, because it's all gobbledegook. It isn't science, and it isn't religion. And it rears its ugly head over and over.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 13, 2020 9:24:41 GMT -6
Nope.
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Post by kmik on Nov 13, 2020 6:44:56 GMT -6
Thanks Hope for all of the work you have done getting all of these files into one place - not an easy job!!
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Post by marionumber1 on Nov 12, 2020 16:13:41 GMT -6
I've always been skeptical of Toole & Lucas as "a homosexual couple", or Lucas as a bisexual and Toole as his Gay lover, also. Not impossible, but they might have been portrayed that way to make them a better fit with Gayland Hurst's perverted theories about "satanic" perverts. Hurst was an influential figure with The Rangers and Texas prison authorities at that time. For whatever it's worth, Max Call's book largely plays down the indications that Lucas was a sexual deviant, even throughout the time Lucas was in the cult. You get the impression from the book that Toole came on to Lucas but Lucas rejected him, and was adamant he would never see Toole sexually. The book also makes it seem like the 12 to 15-year-old Becky Powell was a promiscuous temptress who came on to Lucas, with her as the dominant one in the "relationship" and him going along. You often see the "she came on to me!" nonsense when pedophiles try to defend their actions. Also in the book, it is claimed that Lucas left his family on the East Coast after being falsely accused of molesting underage girl relatives of his, but I'm not so sure the accusations were really false. At least one of the early crimes in his spree actually was kidnapping underage girls. These self-serving narrative elements that play down Lucas's possible bisexuality and evident pedophilia seem more likely, in my view, to have come from Lucas and simply not been questioned by Call. The closure of the Adam Walsh case with Toole as the perpetrator does leave a lot to be desired. Arthur Jay Harris dug up several witnesses who were adamant that Jeffrey Dahmer, who lived in the area at the time, was the likely assailant they saw. But even more interesting, as I pointed out in my OP on this thread, is that there are several indications Toole and Dahmer may have been members of the same cult who were in on the crime together. And if Adam's kidnapping was a Hand of Death crime, that raises questions about whether it might have been contracted. A little upthread, I posted a snippet from Harris's book about how John Walsh's boss John Monahan was connected to a major drug smuggling network. John Walsh also talked in his book about how upset he was that the police wouldn't categorically deny rumors of a tie between him and the mob. From p.284 of Tears of Rage: From Grieving Father to Crusader for Justice : the Untold Story of the Adam Walsh Case by John Walsh (1997): All of that, combined with John Walsh's complete acceptance of the dubious case closure with Toole and refusal to sanction a DNA test with the man (A.W.) claiming to be Adam, does make me wonder if he doesn't want the whole truth of the case to emerge.
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 5:48:08 GMT -6
Nope, no corrections here, your observations seem spot on to me! Good thought regarding Yuba County & Kathy. Kmik recently pointed out sexual assault was believed to have occurred in her case and shouldn't that mean there is some evidence to check. I hope and assume so. If there is DNA evidence, I wonder if it has been uploaded into the database? That would be a great start. Did you happen to listen to the episode on Keddie Paul Holes' did on his podcast, The Murder Squad? It was nicely done and he offered Plumas County assistance. I hope they take him up on it, with all his connections the case may finally be solved. And just to clarify my thoughts about Tina, I don't necessarily think someone came there with the intention to kidnap her. But i do wonder if perhaps she planned on meeting someone that night or called someone and somehow things got out of control. Just the way I was thinking. And how about this.....turns out in 1981 Kathy was telling PCSO that she had heard Donna Williams was the one who rode the boys home.... 
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 5:18:20 GMT -6
Unfortunately, the original is blurry and illegible. Including an excellent post made by Meanie in 2016. Her transcription includes the residents on the Keddie roster, some additional residents of the dorms & WP trailers, plus any corresponding information relating to each person:  Meanie Mar 08 '16#1 Roster of Keddie Residents as of April 12th, 1981 Cabins 1-45 1. Tom K. 2. Jim L. 3. Connie G. 4. Margaret D. 5. Ted K & Bev M. 6. Bill A. 7. Roy L 8. Steve C. & Joel S. 9. A Ubongen 10. N/A 11. Arthur J & James J 12. Vacant 13. Vacant 14. Tom & Viv S -Arrived home about suppertime and saw Tina washing dishes at the kitchen sink of Cabin 28. He stayed up until 2am watching television; heard & saw nothing. Henry T & Chuck W came by about 3am but left because the lights weren't on. 15. Vacant 16. Mike P & Barbara M -Barbara awoke at 1:15am, heard muffled screams coming from the back yard they shared with Cabin 28. She woke Mike and he heard them too. 17. Vicki K. -Fell asleep in her chair watching TV. Heard & saw nothing. 18. Ron & Paula V -Their dog started barking at the vacant lot behind Cabin 28 about 10:30pm. 19. Vacant 20. Julian R -Not at home, cabin empty. 21. Vacant or N/A 22. Vacant or N/A 23. Victor & Kathy K -Cats acting strangely, coming in and out all night. Mr K stayed awake all night long and drove to the store at 3am. 24. Kathy B. -Little pink cabin right across from the driveway of Cabin 28. Saw the back light on at 4am. Had dogs that should have barked. 25. The Albins. 26. Marty & Marilyn -Walked to the bar about 10pm. Walked past Cabin 28 four times, remarked that the lights in there were off and felt it was unusual. 27. The Seabolts -The dog started barking at some point during the night. Mr Seabolt had a hard time sleeping. He left the house before dawn to go chopping wood. 28. The Sharps 29. Pam & Danny P 30, 31 Vacant 32. The Stockingers 33. The Wheelers 43. The Hales 44. The DuPonts 45. The Asturias The Dorm & RR Trailers: -The Olsens -Maggie L -Steven L. Claims he left Keddie on April 10th to spend Easter with him mother. He told other people he stayed in Keddie alone to do acid and walked past Cabin 28 a number of times. He was dating one of the girls from Cabin 23. -Daryl J. -Dated Sue for about 2 weeks prior to her murder. Spent the night of April 11th with his ex wife in Paradise. -Jack W. -Naomi K. -Judith L. -Paula R -Rhonda D
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 5:08:59 GMT -6
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 5:03:06 GMT -6
   187 PC HOMICIDE SHARP - WINGATE PERSON CONTACTED SHARP, SHEILA (PREVIOUSLY LISTED) SHARP, RICKIE (PREVIOUSLY LISTED) ON 6-4-81, 1715 HRS, I TELEPHONED SHEILA, IN OREGON, TO ASK HER SEVERAL QUESTIONS. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO DRIVES A WHITE AND DARK GREEN BLAZER, THAT VISITED YOUR HOUSE IN KEDDIE? A: "SHEILA" - NO. "RICKIE" - I SAW ONE AT SAFEWAY AND ONE AT THE KEDDIE RESTAURANT, BUT NONE AT THE HOUSE. Q: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT AN ARGUMENT SUE HAD WITH A MAN, IN MARCH, ABOUT 10:00 P.M., OUTSIDE YOUR KEDDIE HOUSE? A: "SHEILA" - NO. "RICKIE" - NO. Q: WOULD YOUR MOTHER NORMALLY HAVE TOLD YOU IF SHE HAD AN ARGUMENT WITH SOMEONE? A: "SHEILA" - YES Q: DID TINA GO TO A DENTIST. A: "SHEILA" - YES, WE ALL WENT TO THE DENTIST BY J&J HARDWARE _ Q: DO YOU KNOW IF SUE BOUGHT A PACK OF CIGARETTES ON SATURDAY (4-11-81) ? A: "SHEILA" - YES, SHE BOUGHT A PACK THAT DAY. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHERE SHE BOUGHT THEM? A: "SHEILA" - AT THE LITTLE STORE IN KEDDIE Q: DID SUE VISIT ANYONE IN QUINCY, BESIDES THE MEEKS? A: "SHEILA"- JUST JOE BAZE, BUT SHE DIDN'T LIKE HIM BECAUSE HE DRANK. Q: ARE YOU SURE JOHNNY DIDN'T HAVE A PELLET GUN? A: "SHEILA" - HE DIDN'T HAVE A PELLET GUN. MOM (SUE) MIGHT HAVE PUT ONE ON LAY-AWAY FOR JOHNNY, BUT SHE DIDN'T PICK ONE UP. Q: WHAT COLOR OF HEAD BAND DID JOHNNY USUALLY WEAR? A: "SHEILA" - HE ALMOST ALWAYS WORE RED Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT COLOR HEAD BAND JOHNNY WAS WEARING ON SATURDAY? A: "SHEILA" - RED "RICKIE" - RED Q: WERE THERE ANY OTHER COLOR HEAD BANDS OR BANDANA'S IN THE HOUSE? A: "SHEILA" - YES. A DARK BLUE ONE WITH LITTLE WHITE MARKS ALL OVER IT. I LOOKED FOR IT BEFORE THAT SATURDAY, BUT I COULDN'T FIND IT. I WANTED TO WEAR IT, SO I LOOKED FOR IT SEVERAL TIMES. Q: I DESCRIBED THE MAN THAT FRANK DAVIS DESCRIBED, AND ASKED SHEILA IF SHE KNEW THE MAN A: I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE AROUND KEDDIE THAT SOUND LIKE THAT, BUT NO ONE AT THE HOUSE REPORTING OFFICER: SHANKS ___ ? __ OFFICER: SHANKS FURTHER ACTION: YES
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 3:40:28 GMT -6
Lipsey was later a registered sex offender who had been found guilty of committing ‘lewd or lascivious acts with a child under 14.’
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 3:16:39 GMT -6
 Tina's teacher -Joel Lipsey: the full report - 5 pages by jhancock » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:34 pm In Cabin 28: The Keddie Murders Part II, there is a brief mention of Tina's teacher; one woman in the documentary expresses her belief that this teacher was connected to her disappearance in some way. Here is the case file that will supplement that interview in full. Joel W. L. was interviewed at the Plumas Co. Sheriff's Office on 9-24-81 by Special Agents Bradley and Crim. Joel related the following: He heard from another teacher on the day of the Keddie murders that Tina Sharp was killed. He came to Quincy to check and talked with someone in the sheriff's office and then he joined the search because he was brand new on the search team and thought he could be helpful if Tina was around because he was one of her teachers and she might respond better to him. He came to the PCSO about 4-6 weeks after the incident and talked to Ken Shanks about Marilyn S. and her kids. MArilyn told him she thought her husband, Marde S., had made statements about hating kids and that he did not like women. Marilyn told him she has seen some bloody clothing shortly after the murders. He is a special education teacher and Tina was in his class part time. Tina was in the fifth grade during the 1980-81 school year. He works with slower children and teaches remedial reading, math, etc. Tina was in the fourth grade when she started attending his class. He had Tina three hours a day. He said Tina made specific references to her home life. He never remembers Tina speaking of her father. Tina was very concerned about her older sister Sheila when Sheila went to Oregon. Tina did not seem like an unhappy child. Her clothing was not the best. In his opinion Tina was underdeveloped in her social skills compared to her peers. At one time Tina said her mother's new boyfriend, named Joe, was coming around a lot and this excited Tina because she thought her mom might get married. Tina was very affectionate and liked to sit on his lap and hug him. He said this was not unusual and other children do the same thing also. He said Glenna Sue Sharp was very quiet and talked very little when she attended conferences. Tina had learning problems and didn't act like she was as mature as most 12 year olds. Tina was street-wise and knew how to take care of herself. She was exposed to her older brother and her older sister who had been pregnant. Regarding her physical maturity, Tina was 12 going on 10. She was small for her age. Tina was open and a very hard worker. He couldn't give her enough work to do. Tina rarely mentioned her home life. He doesn't think Tina was trying to reach out to anyone. The family group seemed to be pretty cohesive. The last time he saw Tina was the Friday before Easter vacation when she was playing handball. Tina seemed happy, no different than any other day. She gave him a hug and then went back to her class. He saw nothing in his observations of Tina to base an opinion on whether she was sexually promiscuous or not. He wouldn't say it was impossible she could be because of her exposure to her family and the Meeks family. He saw her one cold fall evening dancing in the Pioneer Bowl parking lot with Walter M. Tina was closer to the Meeks kids than any other kids at school. Tina liked to go to Spanish Falls with her brothers and friends. He doesn't feel Tina could be a participant in the crimes. He said his former teacher's aide, Gretchen H., might have information that could be helpful to the investigation. He showed agents pictures he had taken of Tina. He said he takes candid shots of the children and then they use the pictures in Mother's Day, Christmas cards, etc. On the night of the homicide he was out with Tanya H., dropped her off (at her house between 11 and midnight); he then returned to his home and went to bed.
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 2:30:47 GMT -6
Original Police Report - D. French and Tina's Molestation Report Supplemental Report from 7/6/81:
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 2:26:41 GMT -6
Original Police Report - D. French and Tina's Molestation Report 7/1/81 Pages 9-10: 
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 12, 2020 2:21:11 GMT -6
Original Police Report - D. French and Tina's Molestation Report 7/1/81 Pages 6-8:  
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