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Post by kmik on Nov 15, 2020 17:58:09 GMT -6
Plus factor in that the counselor claimed that after the DOJ followed up with him in 1981 they sent him a letter saying Marty had been arrested so he thought for all these years that the murders were solved. Here you have a guy who claimed to have a patient confess a murder to him and the DOJ even interviewed him and about a year later he quit the vet center and went to work in law enforcement about 81 miles away from where these murders happened and it never crossed his mind again? Cause that's what he said he never thought about it again until Josh Hancock contacted him for an interview. Wow! So he never even asked Dr. Cheeseman, his neighbor who was working in Plumas, if the case was closed?
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Post by kmik on Nov 15, 2020 17:45:35 GMT -6
JR, I too would have been worrying myself to death over what happened next door and especially if my stepson was there. But you also have to take into account that according to Marilyn's aunt Joan, Justin wasn't even living with Marty and Marilyn in December of 1979 (only Lori and Casey were) when Marilyn came to live with her and Marty joined them a month later. And as far as we know Justin did not move in with them until August or September of 1980. So Justin was his stepson by marriage but as far as any real connection there couldn't have been much. Heck Marty wasn't even connected with his own children. And as Hope said it's hard to wonder about his disconnect when the families of the victims seemed disconnected themselves. It appears to me that a lot of people felt like the family had this coming because of the way they lived. I want to be clear here that these are not my thoughts so that I don't get bashed like Victoria Metcalf did when she truthfully told what the rumors around town were at the time of the murders.
Here is the 2nd page of an article written after the Keddie Documentaries was released in 2011. It's basically a review of the film but the last half describes what the writer of this article (Josh Seabold) did after hearing from the documentary that in 1981 the PCSO nor the DOJ followed up on the counselor's story of the confession.
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hope
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Post by hope on Nov 15, 2020 12:45:50 GMT -6
I was re-reading the FB posts Dmac has made over the past couple of months & one post made on Sept 21, 2020 stuck out to me. I'm going to make a post myself with some questions & thoughts I had after reading it again. In Dmac's post he mentions this regarding the counselor:
"He (Gamberg) then begins contact with the VA Outreach Center in Reno, trying to get Bo's and Marty's records. He knew it was the Outreach Ctr, not the VA Hosp itself, because he'd been in contact with the counselor. They advised he'd need a court order, which he got after filing a Probable Cause statement with DA Hollister. This PC statement goes into further details about how Crim and Bradley flat out falsified their reports, but he won't put it in the true terms. Too early in his investigation to call a spade a shovel full of shit."
According to the above, Gamberg was awarded a court order to obtain any records from the VA Center. It does not specify when this occurred. So, what were the results? I am guessing either:
1. No records were available, which is understandable given the length of time that has passed.
2. The records did not reveal the info they were after (what the counselor told years later).
If the records included notes from the counselor regarding Marty's confession I think they would have been posted, or at the very least we would have heard about it. That would put an end to the doubts or at least substantiate the claim.
And JR, the emotional disconnect is certainly strange. I could not imagine something like that happening next door to me either and know I would have behaved differently. Add in the fact his stepson was there at the time. If that was my child I wouldn't let them leave my side and be sick with guilt that they had to endure something so traumatic. But Marty wasn't the only person who acted in such a way. A lot of people seemed like that was just another day, the murders didn't seem to faze them. It is so odd to me. Justin and the Sharp children were allowed to roam around Quincy all alone the days following the murders. It's hard to believe none of the adults in there lives were concerned for their safety. And the fact everyone acts like they never discussed it with the kids. I understand you don't want to upset them, but they have already been through the most horrible thing a person can go through, let alone as a child. At least some good may have come out of talking with them, perhaps they could have found out who was responsible.
There's the comments Sue's sister Jackie made in the deleted scene on YouTube. She said the murders did not affect her. Even if she and Sue were not close it is a strange thing to say. I couldn't imagine that happening to my family, especially my little niece. You can't think of one way it affected you? Really?
Then I think back to the letter kmik posted that Don & Nancy Davis sent to the Feather River Bulletin. At this point Tina was still missing, yet the letter seems so emotionless. I would be begging the people of Plumas County to please come forward with any information, no matter how insignificant as it may be the missing piece of the puzzle to solve these murders and bring Tina home. Sorry for the long post, but people's behavior after these crimes was certainly odd. And as you said JR, its 40 years later and still on our minds.
Here is the letter Don & Nancy Davis wrote:
28 April 1982 FRB:
MURDERS SHOULDN'T BE POLITICAL Editor: On last Wednesday's People's Dialogue, sheriff's candidate Chesley Pence made what we consider to be an irresponsible statement to the public concerning the investigation of the Keddie murders. The Keddie murders cannot, in any way, shape or form, be considered a political issue at this time. Sheriff Shanks and Investigator Brubaker cannot make any comments on the case without jeopardizing the investigative process of this open case. We have been personally assured by both Mr. Shanks and Mr. Brubaker, and since his appearance on People's Dialogue, by Mr. Pence, that they sincerely do not consider this to be a political issue and we are confident that they will not allow it to become an issue to be missued by the public for political gain. We recognize, support, and symphathize with the community's concern about the yet unsolved Keddie murders. The person or persons who killed Sue and Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate and are responsible for Tina Sharp's disapearance invaded the lives of the entire community. But, as the immediate family of the Sharp's we wish to make it publicly known that we will not allow a few select people in the community for any reason, and expecially not for politically motivated reasons, to drag out and abuse our pain, our grief, and our hope that these criminals may yet still be stopped from committing another such heinous crime and be brought to justice. Further, our family is satisfied with the on-going investigation of the death of Sue and Johnny Sharp.
Don and Nancy Davis Quincy
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 15, 2020 9:21:15 GMT -6
Oh, I think they had a vested interest in producing the Septuagint as soon as they took over from the Persians. "Jesus" quotes from it several times in the Gospels. "Jesous Sirach," a ["Sadduccee"] apostolos sent from the Alexandria Temple to Hellenize the Jerusalem Temple, quotes from and refers to it even more extensively, and this is aroooouuuuuund 200-175 BC. In fact, the "Greeks" cobble together the Old Testament, which didn't even exist as a complete collection of Hebrew texts until the Greek version is produced. And this is probably completed, more or less, by around 250-225 BC. Rough guess.
Here's the part most people don't understand: "Jesus of Nazareth" was probably NOT the first Sadduccee (Hellenist "Jews," called "greeks" in the New Testament) "Christ." The proto-Septuagint was prrrroooobably an attempt to propagandize Alexander the Great as the protochristian "Christ." (As opposed to the "Essenic" protochrist, Darius the Great.) The "Pharisees," empowered by the Maccabees, not only try to cleanse the Jewish world of Hellenistic influences, but by the time the Romans get them out of the Temple, THEY are no longer concerned with either a Greek or a Persian Christ, and make a half-hearted effort to make Augustus "Christ." The Romans, per se, have no deep interest in acculturating the "stiff-necked Jews," and are concerned mostly in finding a "client king" to govern Jerusalem for them.
That's right, kids--"Jesus of Nazareth" is an attempt to sell the Pharisees ANOTHER [crypto-Hellenistic] "Christ," this one a bona fide (get it?) "Nazarite" who, conveniently enough, knows his Septuagint by heart. This goes over like a pork balloon, and to this day, the Pharisees (Orthodox Jews) are still waiting on a Messiah.
Am I oversimplifying? Of course. For example, there are THREE (or possibly four) "Jesuses" in the Gospels, and a possible fifth referred to in other books of the New Testament. There is the "Pharisee" (yes, I use these terms broadly) who debates Sadduccess and Essenes; there is a "Sadduccee" (who has apparently occupied a high position as a result of the Roman overthrow of the Maccabean Pharisees) debating Pharisees and Essenes; and there is the Essene who performs all that Enochian riding into Jerusalem on the Ass of Set prophesying the Winnowing by Fire of blah, blah, blah. Etc, etc, etc. HE is referenced by Roman historians as "Antigonus" (Aramaic name erased from the books, but since 1/3 to 1/2 of all boys born there at that time were named Yeshua...) who, supported by the Essenes (and their covert patrons, the Persians) in the power vacuum left by the defeat of the Pompei party by the Caesar party, leads an apocalyptic attempt to take over Jerusalem that sounds an aaaawwwwful lot like the Gospel stories of Jesus near the end of his career, and is betrayed by "the Jews" [Pharisees,] "bound over to the Romans," and crucified--not by Pilate, but by Mark Anthony--on the "hill of skulls" outside ANTIOCH, not Jerusalem. Not coincidentally, the FIRST "Christians" (well, ChrEstians, but that's a hair to split another day) already exist by the time the "apostolos" Saul/Paul even arrives. This "deal" leaves the Pharisees more or less in command of the Jerusalem/Temple culture, with the Romans having a deep interest in suppressing both the Sadduccees, who are supported by the Seleucids who never stop itching to overthrow the Romans, and the Essenes, who are supported by the even more dangerous Persians. Over time, this fails, and the Seleucid culture reemerges as "Christianity."
Interestingly, the Sadduccee Jesus not only quotes frequently from the Septuagint, he also quotes from a now-lost book of Moses. That's the material that drives the Pharisees up the wall, but again, these are meant to be read by Sadduccess, not the Pharisees. Which raises another interesting topic--just what DID the pre-Hellenistic era "Jews" (if they even existed as we know them) really believe about Moses? Archaeology tells a different story--in interesting ways--about King Hezekiah than the "Bible" does. And the biggest difference revolves around the "Moses" cult (I'm using the academic term here) as practiced--and suppressed--in those days.
Long story short? By the time of Origen, et al, "Moses" is the FIRST Hellenized "Christ," and "Jesous" is the SECOND coming of that Christ. Huh? What? Where does it say that in the Bible? Well, Constantine the "Great" sets himself up as, among other things, the second coming of "Christ." Not the third. So, by the time the version of "the Bible" we know and love is produced between 300ish and 450ish AD, it is rewritten one last time to make "Jesous" the FIRST coming of "Christ," so that Constantine can be propagandized as the SECOND coming. A myth that fades over time.
Think of "the Bible" as a Wiki, that gets edited over time. Not once. Not twice. Continuously, at least until it is "finalized" into two versions, the Codex Vaticanus, and the Codex Sinaiticus. Those two versions are rapidly copied and distributed, making any further revisions more or less impossible.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 15, 2020 8:38:08 GMT -6
It was surprisingly seedy looking. It was clearly second-hand, and the custom purple/metal flake paint job was flaking off. But now he's dead, you hear these stories about how cheap he was. And how paranoid. That's how I found out how he knew my name--he was PARANOID. He HAD to know the names, etc, of anyone who came near him. So, apparently, he had seen me a few times in the building at Warner Bros in Culver City (I only went there a FEW times, but more than once) and must have asked someone to find out who the hell I was, because he ALSO saw me several mornings a week either getting into my car, or walking to work along Overland Ave near Olympic (on Fridays, I worked in the office, instead of going out to client locations, and I was the only person in LA who lived within walking distance of work.) I never bothered him; only waved "good morning," so after a while, he would leave the windows down, and when he saw me, he'd say, "Good morning, Tom," etc. What impressed me was, he went to work at 8:00 every morning just like every other Midwesterner living in LA. Except, he went to work in a cheap purple limo, and yes, he wore "those" Purple Rain clothes to the studio EVERY DAY. One morning, Madonna (it could have been Susanna Hoffs) was asleep in the back seat next to him, head in his lap. One Saturday night, on the Sunset Strip, going into a nightclub as the "escort" of a coworker whose out of town fiancee was Somebody at Apple Records, I heard someone going down the Strip holler, "Hey, Tom!" It was Prince, going by in his limo. Everyone, including my coworker, was like, "Who the hell is that guy, that Prince is waving at him?" But that's apparently the way he was, in a lot of ways. Just a nice, paranoid, Midwestern boy working hard in the Big City.
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Post by kmik on Nov 15, 2020 7:02:28 GMT -6
Yes Hope we've discussed the probability that the "b" he was talking about was Glenna Meeks.
I believe that Cheeseman and the therapist, who were neighbors of some sort, were at some point discussing these murders for the conversation of Marty's confession to have ever even taken place. The therapist had another man working with him at the center so why didn't he tell this "confesson" to him or the lady that they worked for? I fully believe the therapist asked Marty about the murders in Keddie and I believe it was because either:
*Doug Thomas knew after Marty's first interview that Marty was seeing the counselor, so maybe he sought him out to question Marty about the murders or Doug Thomas asked Dr. Cheeseman (who worked in Plumas) to do so. (Doug Thomas was desperate to know if Marty knew anything that's why he was riding Marty around in his car, tape recording him)
*Cheeseman, as Tom has said, was possibly Marilyn's doctor and she brought up Marty's possible involvement to him and he approached his neighbor the counselor.
Whatever happened it's pretty clear to me that Cheesman played some part in all of this "confession" coming about but even taking that into consideration there's no way the therapist remembered all of this years later yet never even followed up on the case. Sorry to get off subject but I love to discuss this "confession"!
JR, I do believe that Marty was concerned about what had happened in 28 but Marilyn left him and he was in debt so that's what was driving his attention. And I believe he was very excited to do these scams with Bo (easy money in his eyes) |
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Post by johnreno on Nov 14, 2020 23:15:46 GMT -6
Marde is not on my list, but I have marveled at his preoccupations following 4/12. Call me sensitive, but I’d be in shock for a month if something like cabin 28 happened essentially next door to me, even if my stepson wasn’t in the house! Maybe I’m underestimating Marilyn’s feminine wiles, but Marde often sounds like a lovesick teenager. It’s just hard for me to imagine how he seems to “skip over” the event emotionally. But here I am 40 years on and dwelling on it, so maybe I’m the wrong person to ask.
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hope
Full Member
Posts: 139
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Post by hope on Nov 14, 2020 20:56:08 GMT -6
No problem! Glad it was there for us to find. And yes, the police probably confiscated the letter while they were searching cabin 26, while Marilyn was living with the Meeks. Seems like Marilyn was actually being truthful when she said she does not remember ever seeing that letter.
In addition to "please forgive me" it looks like he wrote "God(?) I love you more than life please forgive me Marilyn. Love Marde". He just wanted her back.
And not to change the subject, but I just wanted to mention a thought I've had regarding Marty's therapy sessions. Prior to his confession, he mentioned a "bitch" who was keeping his wife away from him. I have always believed the "bitch" he was referring to was actually Mama Meeks and not Sue. That would make the most sense. Going off memory, that session took place after the murders, while Marilyn was living with the Meeks. I think it has been incorrectly assumed by most people that he was speaking of Sue when there is no evidence Sue ever kept Marilyn from Marty, especially after she was already dead. What are your guys thoughts on that?
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Post by kmik on Nov 14, 2020 20:17:43 GMT -6
YOU GO GIRL! Good eye! If Marilyn moved out of Keddie April 12, 1981 and this letter was mailed 2 weeks later it's possible she never got it or she got it and gave it to the police - who knows. You can clearly see where he wrote on the outside - Please forgive me. My guess is that he was not asking her to forgive him for murder (and especially not if she was the one who ordered the hit) but for his jealousy. My mind is sooo far from Marty Smartt!!
Thank you so much for finding this!! |
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Post by james1983 on Nov 14, 2020 18:36:51 GMT -6
I know William Ramsey has talked about this subject, but it goes a lot further. Most people have heard the comments during the prayer breakfast where George W. Bush said "Ozzie mom loves your stuff". What's interesting is there is a correlation between 9/11 and the song planet caravan written in the early 1970s. September 11 is the Egyptian New Years and coincides with the flooding of the Nile. The ancient Egyptians used the Dog Star Sirius as a way to gauge when the yearly flooding would happen. The Dog Star is called the silver star in occultism. On September 11 2001 at the time the first plane hit the sun was in Mars. Mars is the god of war. Now listen to the original (the best lol) version of planet caravan and compare it to the astrology of that date.
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Post by james1983 on Nov 14, 2020 15:11:15 GMT -6
I have to disagree. Pythagoras wasn't a gnostic, he was an initiate of the Greek mystery schools which later Gnostics adopted and made their own. The only thing in common with Pythagoras and Gnosticism is the idea of the monad, which was Pythagorases way of coding the idea of the Greek god Pan. The same goes with Zorosater, his ideas weren't adopted into Gnosticism until after the time of Christ. The same goes for astrology etc. an example would be that there used to be only ten zodiac signs, then later it was raised to twelve to fit in with Christian gnostic ideas like the twelve apostles, shortly after the time of Christ.
There was no evolution of real Christianity. The entire OT speaks of Jesus Christ all the way down to the burnt offerings and feast days. I do agree that the Roman church and orthodoxy has indeed adopted some of the gnostic ideas. Modern Rabbinic Judaism is all of those things, but not Daniel as in the OT. Daniel refused to kneels before the Babylonian gods as did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. That's why they were tossed into the burning oven. The only thing in common with Christianity and the earlier pagan cults is the idea of a resurrecting god. It shouldn't be a surprise that that these ideas are found all throughout the Middle East as the OT spoke of it, and the OT reached all that area and then some. The biblical story of Jonah tells us he traveled to Ninevah to preach to them.
I have 1 question. What books did the Gnostics "sneak in"? The reason I ask is when one reads the gnostic gospels like Thomas, you can easily see the gnostic ideas sprinkled in with passages from the NT.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Nov 14, 2020 11:31:32 GMT -6
Let's remember, my Hollyweird fave Prince Rogers Nelson hailed from the Twin Cities. And he was deeply, DEEPLY, into Doomsday. Deeply. I see you are still peeved at the Paisley Prince for not giving you a lift in his purple limo, while passing you by on the Sunset Strip, in a past life!  |
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 14, 2020 10:50:21 GMT -6
And let's remember, things in the Walsh clan at the time of Adam's disappearance weren't exactly apple pie, either.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 14, 2020 10:39:40 GMT -6
Just because John D Rockefeller sold Standard Oil to Wall Street, doesn't mean he didn't continue to have massive influence. Let's remember, my Hollyweird fave Prince Rogers Nelson hailed from the Twin Cities. And he was deeply, DEEPLY, into Doomsday. Deeply.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 14, 2020 10:36:26 GMT -6
Um, I'll handle the snarky, morbid editorializing on THIS website, if you don't mind. Seriously, though, this is, again, EXCELLENT information. Excellent.
BTW, guess who talked Jimmy Carter--who had no serious intentions of making a life career of politics after serving as "governor" of Georgia--into running for POTUS? (According to His Jimminess directly, when he told his mother, "Mama, I'm going to run for president," she said, "President of what?")
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