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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 20, 2016 11:46:11 GMT -6
Supposedly, Josh Hancock "acquired" a pretty big pile of documents from the Plumas County Sheriff's Office, but he has not "published" them. Some of them have showed up on Dmac's website keddie28.com/ but these seem far from complete, and access to these documents is erratically controlled. So, on this thread, we will attempt to gather all known, available California Department of Justice documents, and discuss them. In addition, Dmac has apparently obtained and transcribed the tapes of the interviews DOJ agents Crim and Bradley conducted with Smartin Smartt and John Boubede. The original DOJ transcripts supposedly exist somewhere.
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Post by kmik on Jan 23, 2017 19:46:06 GMT -6
No one owns the interviews as they were apparently stolen from PCSO to begin with. Do you want a copy of those to post?
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 24, 2017 10:40:43 GMT -6
That would be great!
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 28, 2017 11:33:45 GMT -6
Hi! Thanks for your questions:-) Tom Westcott has done something very similar to my "Zodiac Killer" work in his research debunking the existence of "Jack the Ripper." I recommend his book highly: www.amazon.com/Bank-Holiday-Murders-Whitechapel-Ripper/dp/0615932932I have been gathering the available "leaked" case files concerning the triple homicide (and disappearance of 12-year-old Tina Sharp) that occurred on or about April 11, 1981 in Cabin 28 of the Keddie, CA resort. It is becoming obvious that only SOME of the documents were leaked, especially ones that tend to frame Martin Smartt and, to a lesser extent, John Boubede. This has been more difficult than researching the so-called "Zodiac Killer" murders, since 99.9 percent of the relevant case files have become available in those murders. A lot of the "files" used in the Keddie murders media brouhaha are unofficial transcripts, handwritten copies, etc. To make matters worse, Plumas County LE did a TERRIBLE job of properly documenting their investigations.
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Post by kmik on Feb 2, 2017 19:37:59 GMT -6
In the People Magazine show Gamberg said he didn't understand why the crime unit of the DOJ was called in to investigate this crime (although this is not what he said on Josh Hancock's documentary) and implied that were only called in to interview Marty and Bo. Crim and Bradley interviewed more people than just those two. Do you find it odd that the DOJ was called in? Tina was missing and Plumas was supposedly full of drugs.
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Post by Admin Horan on Feb 3, 2017 12:28:33 GMT -6
In the People Magazine show Gamberg said he didn't understand why the crime unit of the DOJ was called in to investigate this crime (although this is not what he said on Josh Hancock's documentary) and implied that were only called in to interview Marty and Bo. Crim and Bradley interviewed more people than just those two. Do you find it odd that the DOJ was called in? Tina was missing and Plumas was supposedly full of drugs. I would have thought that NOT calling for help from the DOJ would have been a red flag. When I first heard about this case, I was under the impression (and some are still claiming) that PCSO strongly resisted offers of help. Looking at the ACTUAL documents, however, it's crystal clear that they did exactly what I would have suggested they do--Sheriff Doug Thomas requested assistance from DOJ on DAY ONE (April 12.) Two DOJ crime scene techs arrived THAT AFTERNOON to help process the scene (and then processed a lot of the evidence themselves) and Crim and Bradley (two HIGHLY EXPERIENCED investigators) began re-interviewing ALL of the witnesses Shaver interviewed on April 12, then pretty much led the investigation (more or less) from then on. The FBI also got involved immediately (on the grounds that this may have been a kidnapping case) but without a ransom demand, there wasn't much for them to do. I can't see ANY lapses on their parts. A LOT of the statements made by a LOT of people on Josh's "documentary" are flat contradicted by the actual case files. That includes discrepancies between what witnesses told police AT THE TIME, and what they "remember" 25 or 35 years later. I tell people all the time--decades-old "memories" are WORTHLESS. LE just didn't have that much to go on. Let's put ourselves in their shoes. Sunday morning, a few minures past 8:00am, PCSO receives a call from the new landlords of Keddie resort about a multiple homicide in Cabin 28. When they arrive, deputies Klement, Shanks (who had more training than most of them) and Shaver are told that Sheila Sharp had walked in the front door, saw two people lying on the floor, what appeared to be a third person covered with a blanket, what appeared to be a pocket knife on the floor near the bodies, and a lot of blood. She told them (and this story was corroborated by the Seabolts) that she ran back to the Seabolts (who had no phone) and told them what she saw. She then said that after asking the landlords to call police, that she, Jamie Seabolt Jr, and Mrs Seabolt went around to the girls bedroom window, but saw neither Tina nor Sue. She said they then went to the boys bedroom window, saw Ricky and Greg and Justin Sharp, and banged on the window to see if they were alive (they were, and woke up) then after Justin opened the window Jamie climbed in, helped the boys climb out, and then searched the rest of the house, leaving by the back door. Jamie told police that he exited through the back door, which he said was open, and closed the back door behind him. Sheila and the Seabolts told police they heard nothing unusual in the night. Justin and the Sharp boys told police that they slept all night without waking, and had heard nothing. Sheila MAY have assumed that the third body under the blanket was Tina, and that Sue was "missing," but deputies quickly identified Sue under the blanket and that meant Tina was missing. Sheila, the Seabolts, Justin, and Ricky all told police that Tina returned home and went to bed at 10:00pm. These witness statements aren't quite 100 percent believable. First of all, if no one touched the bodies, then how did Sheila and PCSO "know" that NO AMBULANCE WAS NEEDED? Second, it's impossible to stand outside the girls bedroom window and see in without a ladder. Third, it seems pretty incredible that NONE of the boys heard anything. Deputies found the boys bedroom door blocked open by clothing on the floor. If the deputies on the scene made a "mistake" it was letting Sheila and Justin leave the scene. Especially Sheila. When Bradley re-interviewed the witnesses the next day, their stories had changed--in ways that suggest VERY STRONGLY that they had talked among themselves. That doesn't mean they were lying, but it's obvious they had begun to at least confuse each other. Worse, the families of Justin and Sheila had a chance to influence their "memories." On April 13, Justin's mother Marilyn conveyed to LE some rather startling information. First, Justin had behaved oddly. He had sort of "reenacted" the crime with his brother. Then, he made the remark that he had had a dream about the people in the house being killed. Third, she told investigators things that seemed to implicate her "husband," Martin Smartt. From that point forward, Marilyn and Justin (Martin's stepson) would CHANGE more and more elements of their stories, and add more and more "details," that SEEM to implicate Martin more and more. On hearing this, Sheriff Doug Thomas decided to try this new-fangled "hypnosis" technique he'd learned to try and elicit a detailed description of Justin's dream on April 13. Justin said that, just before he woke up the morning of the 12th, he dreamed about being on "my cruiser" when several of the victims were attacked. He described two men responsible for this attack, and a Reno police artist produced sketches. But, since this was a self-described DREAM, it was worthless as "evidence." Several weeks later, as Marilyn fed LE more and more "information" implicating Martin, Justin was hypnotized by a Dr Dash after telling investigators that he now "REMEMBERED" seeing the crime. This version is substantially different from his "dream" version and supposedly has more "probative" (admissible in court) value, since it's not a dream. Yet, according to all the ACTUAL EVIDENCE from the scene and the autopsy reports, NONE of Justin's "memory" of the crime can possibly be true. All other possible leads in the case were carefully followed up on. All dead ends. If there has been ANY "coverup" on the part of PCSO, it's been their cooperation in Hancock's frame around Martin Smartt. Why would they do that? To get the public, the media, and the Sharp family survivors off their back. The problem is, the frame around Martin is pure hearsay with a liberal dash of horsehockey. And a LOT of that horsehockey is flat out lies by Hancock and Dmac concerning the actual evidence and other LE documents they've obtained. That's a summary of what I've seen so far. I'm attempting to obtain access to more files, but don't hold your breath.
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Post by kmik on Feb 4, 2017 20:13:27 GMT -6
I think a lot of people (including us) watched Josh's documentary and wanted to learn more so we joined a forum. The forum was just an extension of the documentary which was extremely one sided. We discussed the Marty theory to death till it started making less and less sense so we began to look closer at exactly who started this theory anyway. At some point you just have to look elsewhere. But most people can't comprehend questioning anything that would exclude Marty being involved.
We never bought into this "cove-up" which was never explained. Your summary (so far) sounds better than anything we have heard in a long time. Good point on the fact that nobody could look into Tina's room without a ladder. Jamie originally told Shaver that, after pulling the boys through the window, he went into the cabin through the open rear door and checked all the rooms and exited through the rear door. Not sure when or why his story changed.
The boys hearing nothing is almost unbelievable. Maybe in a bigger house but not this little cabin. Really, why won't the boys tell anything they know? Covering for Marty is hard to believe since Ricky and Greg were not kin to him (did they even know him?). Justin (who was only kin to Marty by marriage) had only been living with Marty and Marilyn in Keddie for about 4 months. Why would these 3 boys cover for a man they really could not have known very well and CONTINUE to cover for him even after his death? It makes no sense.
Good luck on your attempt to obtain files!! We hope you are able to.
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Post by snoho17 on May 13, 2021 20:22:25 GMT -6
Last night I was reading some of the evidence reports, wading through what was once meanies site. Although I did pop back to mk's soooo I of course made a mental note of following up on what I found interesting but of course lost it. What I found interesting was evidence that had to be released to the DOJ and then some of that evidence was released back to the PCSD. So I was thinking I might (try) to make a list of what evidence (that we know of) went to the DOJ and what went to PCSD. Waste of time? We know evidence was damaged/lost by pcsd but what would have still been in Sacramento? Anything viable? Thoughts?
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Post by hope on May 13, 2021 22:45:45 GMT -6
I think it's a great idea Snoho! I would love to know what evidence is still around & what has/hasn't been tested. It's hard to know though because its rarely discussed. I dont think anything has been mentioned since the tape was examined & matched to Justin & the unnamed female DNA on the cords. Are things still being tested??? There has to be more to test, I know I have a few items in mind that could be promising if they are still around.
And I've been doing the same thing! Lol. Looking back through the old forums, looking for things I previously saved, etc. Have a couple posts I'm working on but keep getting sidetracked with all the other things I come across.
PS. I think in one of the ABC10 segments Madison Wade mentions the evidence is still there. I forget exactly what she said. And I believe the wall panels are still in existence....touch DNA around the stab marks in wall??? That be nice, they most likely touched the wall with their other hand while removing the knife (or whatever it was, I believe LE said the marks were like an ice pick had made them). The "possible blood" on the bathroom cabinet door. Cant help but feel this case could be solved with today's technology
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Post by hope on May 13, 2021 23:09:41 GMT -6
Have you seen this report re: blood type of some evidence items? And Kmik started this thread using the above report: zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/326/blood-typingShe matched the numbers listed on this report with the appropriate evidence items & victim based on blood type. I've been wanting to revisit this thread because she had a great idea, trying to reconstruct the sequence of events. Unfortunately, there are only a few items listed in the report & can only get so far with blood type instead of DNA. What do you guys think about an "E for Evidence" thread and then we can all add things there as we come across them?
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Post by kmik on May 14, 2021 20:53:24 GMT -6
Hope that would be great. I wonder what evidence was lost or if Madison Wade said that because of the fridge being unplugged. I know there were some fingernail scrappings or hair that was logged as missing when LE went through what was in the fridge but couldn't that have been due to testing?
Solving this in '81 was unlikely thanks to all of the liars - but technology is so much more advanced today and a DNA hit is what it would take to solve it.
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