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Post by mysteriouscourtier on Nov 21, 2020 5:43:59 GMT -6
But the biggest indication that the Hand of Death was real is how closely Lucas's story of how he was inducted into the cult parallels the story of Thomas Creech. Creech is a serial killer on death row in Idaho right now, and the way his case unfolded was similar to Lucas. Initially arrested on suspicion for a double murder, he soon began confessing to a lot more killings around the country, and claiming that he did many of them while in a satanic cult and/or as murder-for-hire. His confessions actually allowed police to find several bodies, with about 9 of his reported killings being officially confirmed by law enforcement. And I have to find the original source, but I have come across a claim that Maury Terry once said on a radio broadcast that he linked Creech to the same Process cult network behind Son of Sam. What is most significant in the linked Oui article about Creech is his story of how he first got recruited into this web of performing deeds for organized crime: By the way, this heroin operation went to the very top according to Creech, with Colorado Senator Gary Hart as well as Colorado Governor John Love and Ohio Governor John Gilligan being three big names implicated in it. Creech even claimed he was on his way to Denver to fulfill a contract on Hart's life when he got arrested in Idaho, and this is backed up by initial reports saying that an informant had told authorities Creech was coming to Denver to kill Hart. Hart's campaign for Senate was managed by Hal Haddon, a political kingmaker in the state of Colorado whose firm's clients have included JonBenet Ramsey's parents, Rockwell International Corporation (in the case against them for environmental violations at Rocky Flats nuclear plant), Hunter Thompson, Hamburg cell associate and Saudi elite Homaidan al-Turki, and Ghislaine Maxwell. Do you have any police investigator reports, for Thomas Creech and his alleged confessions? Or alternative sources for his satanic cult claims? There is a contradictory claim on Murderpedia; "Members of his jury were unimpressed, and Creech was convicted on two counts of first degree murder on October 23, 1975. State law made the death penalty automatic, and he was formally sentenced to hang on March 25, 1976. Investigation of Creech's confessions, meanwhile, listed his verified victims as Gordon Stanton and Charles Miller, killed near Las Vegas; Sandra Ramsamoog, 19, of Salem, Oregon; William Dean, in Portland, Oregon; Riogley McKenzie, murdered outside Baggs, Wyoming; Vivian Robinson, of Sacramento, California; and Paul Schrader, age 70, in Tucson, Arizona. Creech gave directions to alleged Satanic ritual sites near San Diego, Seattle, and Missoula, Montana, but authorities describe the solid evidence as negative in each case. As with Henry Lucas a decade later, many of Creech's confessions remain impossible to verify or disprove" From that Oui article; "Tom Creech was introduced to LaVey by Angel, and he attended two Church of Satan rituals in late 1966. Tom was enormously impressed by LaVey and became a firm believer in the reality of Satan and Satan's powers" That's odd, because LeVay was NOT "a believer in the reality of Satan and Satan's powers". Church of Satan was specifically non-theistic, i.e., it's an (admittedly anti-Christian) "philosophy" that masquarades as a 'church', because American laws allow that. You don't have to profess belief in a deity, and LeVay did not - neither Christ-Jehovah nor Satan as a supernatural opposite Deity to them. Later, when Creech is quoted talking about attending ritual sacrifices circa 1974, for which he supposedly supplied multiple victims, he says; "The victims wore robes 'so their Karma wouldn't be released' ", is a nonsensical claim. There's just no such concern expressed in any of the popular culture satanism mythologies, that I'm aware of. Also; "sometimes the ritual called for beheading". What ritual? Was it ever published? Can anyone cite & quote this 'ritual' that "calls for beheading"? Can't imagine a "satanic" rationalization-justification for that. The purpose is...what? But Creech was allegedly involved with criminal biker gangs, and in communities where such 1%-ers control the street-walker prostitution trade, it's not unheard of that some women end up murdered and dumped by them. God knows, there's been a terrible & tragic slaughter of sex trade workers in North America over the last 70 years or so. Mostly younger women, but also some men and boys. Many of these deaths, attributed to one or another 'serial killer' as we know, but certainly not all of them. I could understand, if Creech had contracts to pick up, murder, hack apart and dispose of "problematic" ladies on behalf of his biker gang buddies. And who knows, they might be sick & twisted enough to put such victims through some parody of a ritual sacrifice that they invented, "just for yucks", along the way. This sorry excuse for a human, Robert Pickton, alleged to have biker gang connections, and to have slaughtered 49+ women involved in the sex trade. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 21, 2020 9:24:36 GMT -6
"What a joy, to be comprehended!"--Abraham "Save The Union, but Abolish Labor Unions!" Lincoln, Esq.
I keep telling people Anton "LaVey" was NOT a "Satanist." But they don't want to hear that. Oh, there are Satanists, but he wasn't one. Hubbard wasn't a Scientologist. Mary Ann "DeGrimston" MacLean is not, and never was, a "Processean." Stephen King doesn't believe in ghosts, vampires, or even ESP. "You don't have to read encyclopedias to sell 'em." --Roy "Rubberman" Munson.
But, one wonders if the Hand of Death was perhaps an early incarnation (get it?) of the Matamoros. And then, there's Israel Keyes and Philip Arthur Thompson. Apparently, they were allowed to pursue their "hobbies" in exchange for performing certain services for the DEA, CIA, and others. So, suppose there was a "Hand of Death" gang. Suppose Henry Lee Lucas did dirty work for them. That doesn't rule out getting his jollies on other victims on his own time. Richard Ramirez was mentored by a Green Beret cousin, Miguel Ramirez, who initiated young Richard into Miguel's own hobbies. Albert Anastasia murdered people for fun, as well as for the mafia. That's why they hired him.
Suppose you needed someone, anyone, a commie, or a chisler, or anybody, interrogated, or done away with? Who ARE you gonna call? Mister Rogers?
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Post by mysteriouscourtier on Nov 21, 2020 13:34:27 GMT -6
"What a joy, to be comprehended!"--Abraham "Save The Union, but Abolish Labor Unions!" Lincoln, Esq. I keep telling people Anton "LaVey" was NOT a "Satanist." But they don't want to hear that. Oh, there are Satanists, but he wasn't one. Hubbard wasn't a Scientologist. Mary Ann "DeGrimston" MacLean is not, and never was, a "Processean." Stephen King doesn't believe in ghosts, vampires, or even ESP. "You don't have to read encyclopedias to sell 'em." --Roy "Rubberman" Munson. But, one wonders if the Hand of Death was perhaps an early incarnation (get it?) of the Matamoros. And then, there's Israel Keyes and Philip Arthur Thompson. Apparently, they were allowed to pursue their "hobbies" in exchange for performing certain services for the DEA, CIA, and others. So, suppose there was a "Hand of Death" gang. Suppose Henry Lee Lucas did dirty work for them. That doesn't rule out getting his jollies on other victims on his own time. Richard Ramirez was mentored by a Green Beret cousin, Miguel Ramirez, who initiated young Richard into Miguel's own hobbies. Albert Anastasia murdered people for fun, as well as for the mafia. That's why they hired him. Suppose you needed someone, anyone, a commie, or a chisler, or anybody, interrogated, or done away with? Who ARE you gonna call? Mister Rogers? Touche, and a tip of the hat, Prof. Moran Anton LeVay was a self-professed satanist, that does make him a satanist, but not a theistic satanist professing "the reality and power of Satan". Not like Lawrence Pazder's fantasy satanists, waging eternal spiritual warfare against their hated enemy Jesus, despite knowing The Lord will ultimately prevail as scripture fortells, going around turning crucifixes upside-down in hope of inflicting a pinch of spiritual "points of damage" on the supposed Creator of the Universe. LeVay was a philosophic satanist, and his philosophy was closer to Crowley's extreme individualism. "There is no God, but man" - Aleister Crowley. Who would I call? Good question. Who did the Cia call? Sam Giancana and his professional hitmen? George White and his Corsicans? Serious professionals in any case. I'd hope to NOT rely on killers so psychotic, or brain-damaged in the womb, or simply careless and stupid that they HAVE to get caught eventually. And when they are, these nuts leaving a sloppy trail of bodies wherever they go, they'd spill every detail of their crimes not only to police investigators but to anyone interested in writing about them for the press. A bit more discretion & professionalism, I'd hope for.
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 22, 2020 11:25:06 GMT -6
It's "Horan." Not "Moran." And no, LaVey was not a "Satanist." Any more than Father Guido Sarducci was a Catholic priest. Morgan Freeman once played the part of the President of the United States in a movie. That doesn't make him a politician. He once played a gangster pimp in a movie. That doesn't make him a gangster pimp. (He was really, really good in both roles. As usual for him.) Tupac Shakur and Lil' Wayne acted like gangstas on their albums and music videos. That doesn't make them gangstas. LaVey pretended to be a Satanist. He has followers who are sincere Satanists. There are prison gangs who are practicing, believing Satanists. But LaVey was just a huckster playing a long con on the public.
You didn't understand my other [rhetorical] question, either. If you ARE the "CIA," or the mafia, or whoever, who can you use to torture and murder people? A sociopath with a pre-existing taste for blood. And where do you find one of those? We have warehouses full of 'em. We call them "prisons." It's where the Nazis got a lot of their heavies. And apparently, that's where the CIA and others went fishing for them back in the 50s and 60s. In fact, they apparently studied the SS and thought, "Hey! These are good ideas! We should do this stuff!"
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Post by marionumber1 on Dec 26, 2020 10:49:17 GMT -6
Do you have any police investigator reports, for Thomas Creech and his alleged confessions? Or alternative sources for his satanic cult claims? There is a contradictory claim on Murderpedia; "Members of his jury were unimpressed, and Creech was convicted on two counts of first degree murder on October 23, 1975. State law made the death penalty automatic, and he was formally sentenced to hang on March 25, 1976. Investigation of Creech's confessions, meanwhile, listed his verified victims as Gordon Stanton and Charles Miller, killed near Las Vegas; Sandra Ramsamoog, 19, of Salem, Oregon; William Dean, in Portland, Oregon; Riogley McKenzie, murdered outside Baggs, Wyoming; Vivian Robinson, of Sacramento, California; and Paul Schrader, age 70, in Tucson, Arizona. Creech gave directions to alleged Satanic ritual sites near San Diego, Seattle, and Missoula, Montana, but authorities describe the solid evidence as negative in each case. As with Henry Lucas a decade later, many of Creech's confessions remain impossible to verify or disprove" Yes, those were the 9 victims that Creech was solidly linked to, as also described in this New York Times article: www.nytimes.com/1975/10/18/archives/defendant-on-trial-linked-to-9-murders-in-west.html I have been working to obtain police records on the Creech investigation to see exactly what he said but have been unsuccessful so far; nevertheless, I am inclined to believe the Oui article was working from reports and/or investigators as inside sources given the amount of depth they go into. Indeed, it is hard to really prove that what Creech says is true, though I think the fact that his claims predated the so-called "satanic panic" of the 80s and how it matched up at points with independently-given claims of Pacific Northwest cult activity in the Ted Bundy police files gives it authenticity. Well I think you got it: "parody of a ritual sacrifice". Honestly, Maury Terry's work was weakest when he tried to read too much into the occultism aspects of crimes, and I really don't think that most of these people were serious adherents of satanic religions. There were enough broad similarities that did match actual satanic religions and also likely a lot of invented mumbo-jumbo to go with it. The "satanism" in these cults was really just a belief system to help mentally orient these members around committing senseless violence as if it was for some higher purpose. The thing about these satanic religions is that even if they are outwardly legitimate or even (as in the case of LaVey) run by non-believers, they will attract their share of true believers who often take things far more seriously and much darker than the mainstream organization itself. One might even occasionally speculate, based on the backgrounds of these organizations, that they were set up to covertly attract people like that while maintaining an apparent sheen of legitimacy. The background of the Process Church, for instance, is intriguing given that the New Orleans lawyer who incorporated it was Thomas Jude "Tommy" Baumler, an infiltrator working in the office of former FBI man and CIA asset Guy Banister, who also employed none other than Lee Harvey Oswald.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 27, 2020 10:00:25 GMT -6
Outstanding work, everyone! We should also keep in mind, it's SOP in many, many gangs and mobs that, 1. When you know you're copped for one felony, go ahead and confess to other felonies that your gangmates committed. This includes murder. He knows he's headed for the gallows, so, he takes a few more murder raps for the team. 2. If you can't razzle 'em with dazzle, baffle 'em with bullshit. Confess to everything, in an attempt to confuse the issue. That way, there's a chance your entire confession will be thrown out. I suspect that's what the Manson Family did, because they did it all the time. But then, their luck ran out. 3. Let the right people know, "If you don't get us out of jail pronto, we'll tell the feds WE were the ones who broke into Ellsberg's shrink's office."
If--IF--Creech and Lucas WERE telling the truth, then why WOULD law enforcement admit they believed them? You think Gary Hart got within one bimbo of the Presidency by not having friends in all the right places?
It's well-established that Latin American cartels have been using voodoo and other cult mumbojumbo (backed up with real violence) to control and intimidate people inside, and outside, the cartel. It's stupid to assume they don't do the same damned thing on this side of the border. If not Creech and Lucas, then SOMEBODY on this side of the border works with and within the cartels.
BTW, the "driveaway" drug delivery business is precisely what John Gale and company were doing in the 60s and 70s and 80s. When one of them got busted driving one of those cars across the desert, he helped himself by setting up DeLorean. (I'm not saying DeLorean was "innocent;" I'm saying, he was set up.
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Post by marionumber1 on Dec 27, 2020 12:03:21 GMT -6
Outstanding work, everyone! We should also keep in mind, it's SOP in many, many gangs and mobs that, 1. When you know you're copped for one felony, go ahead and confess to other felonies that your gangmates committed. This includes murder. He knows he's headed for the gallows, so, he takes a few more murder raps for the team. 2. If you can't razzle 'em with dazzle, baffle 'em with bullshit. Confess to everything, in an attempt to confuse the issue. That way, there's a chance your entire confession will be thrown out. I suspect that's what the Manson Family did, because they did it all the time. But then, their luck ran out. 3. Let the right people know, "If you don't get us out of jail pronto, we'll tell the feds WE were the ones who broke into Ellsberg's shrink's office." This also sounds a lot like what Lucas did, to a T. He willingly confessed to hundreds of murders that he didn't do, leaving him in a perfect position to take it all back a few years later and claim he was never a murderer at all. The truth is almost certainly somewhere in the middle, with Lucas most definitely responsible for killing Becky Powell, Kate Rich, and probably a number of others — like John P. McDaniel and those other northwest Florida murders I mentioned in the OP — but all of that was lost for a simpler narrative about a confession hoax. (Never mind that the usual suspects like intelligence asset Hugh Aynesworth were key players in advancing that narrative.) I also do suspect that some of Lucas's false confessions were, similar to what you say in #2, confessions to murders that he knew other fellow cult members had committed. And I think he had some kind of juice akin to #3, seeing how then-governor George W. Bush pursued a commutation of Lucas's death sentence despite never having shown or subsequently showing any concern about the possibility of innocent people on death row.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 27, 2020 20:35:20 GMT -6
Yeah. GREAT point. And not just commuted the death sentence of any old serial killer--Henry Lee Lucas. I mean, if you somehow erase all the murders, he's still one of the scummiest scumbags of the 20th Century. And the public knew it. Yeah. George took a ton of shit over it. He could have gone for the low-hanging fruit, like a Hispanic killer. But LUCAS? ?? Yeah. I forgot about that. And remember, it was his rapport with Hispanics that put him into office in the first place. Hell, he CAMPAIGNED in Spanish. And more power to him. I'm just saying, he had a LOT of friends...Remember his war on drugs? On "cartels?" Well, you saw who won. It was touted as "Plan Colombia." Remember? Let me tell you how narcotics "enforcement" works. The current county prosecutor makes a deal to go after ONE gang, on behalf of another gangs. That's how you get all these high-profile busts that don't even dent the local traffic. That's because they busted the COMPETITION. Plumas County (Keddie) is a perfect example. As a "reserve" deputy, Mike Gamberg himself busted a whole mess of pot farmers all over Plumas County. Guess which ones? The ones not doing beeswax with the Hells Angels. And while we're on the subject, guess where all the Hippies of the Haight ended up when San Fran chased them away? Plumas County. Who the FUCK's ass did Dubya even kiss by sparing Lucas? Life in prison. Not on death row. Out and about. Lucas was almost as at home in prison as Manson. Yeah. I forgot all about that. And with Bush Sr doing every kind of deal you can imagine with Medellin...
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