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Suspects
Aug 16, 2019 23:13:14 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 16, 2019 23:13:14 GMT -6
Suspects
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Suspects
Aug 16, 2019 23:19:28 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 16, 2019 23:19:28 GMT -6
I've been trying to chase down why Phillip Thompson was looked at other than retaliation for ratting on his friend. Found this article very interesting as the murder described was once connected to the zodiac killer, and the real killer was once connected to the keddie murders. Also air strips and south American gun/drug trade...phew. www.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2008/04/a_long_wait_for_justice.html
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Suspects
Aug 16, 2019 23:19:54 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 16, 2019 23:19:54 GMT -6
Small world!
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Suspects
Aug 16, 2019 23:21:24 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 16, 2019 23:21:24 GMT -6
Frank Davis: once arrested for but not charged in another murder, any info?
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Suspects
Aug 17, 2019 0:09:52 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 17, 2019 0:09:52 GMT -6
Carl Kautzer was once looked at, why? He had left keddie by this point and I've seen no connection or interactions with the sharps. So what drew attention to Carl?
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Post by kmik on Aug 17, 2019 12:57:28 GMT -6
We don't know because we've never seen an interview with Karl nor statements made by him. The PON list states that Doug Albin said he looked like one of the composites. He, like Frank Davis, had moved out of Keddie the first of March. He moved from Keddie to Lawrence Street, but while living in Keddie had the Sharps house practically in his backyard. The cabins to the side and back of the Sharps were:
#13- Frank Davis moved out March 1, 1981 (thrown out of Keddie because of drugs)
#14- Tom and Vivian Schmid (Tom saw a female doing dishes and was up unil 2:00am)
# 15 Karl Kautzer and Michelle Matsosich moved out March 1, 1981 (friend of Frank Davis)
# 16 Mike Plyer and Barbara Martens (heard a scream)
#17 Vickie Krois (Her boyfriend lived in Idaho and drove a white and green blazer)
Frank Davis told the police that Dana used to visit the people who lived in #16 before Mike Plyer moved in (January 1981). So Frank knew Dana well enough to know he had visited the people living 3 cabins down from him. The Keddie roster does not list who lived in #16 prior to Mike Plyer but I bet the Albins knew.
In the 1986 report Karl is listed as one of three suspects whose prints are to be resubmitted for new testing yet we have nothing in the info we have that would explain why - but I'm sure the police know.
As for Frank involved in a murder, from memory I think the murder happened when he was younger and he supposedly went to some guy's house with a friend and the friend shot the guy- but I'll try to find that story to be sure.
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Suspects
Aug 18, 2019 22:20:26 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 18, 2019 22:20:26 GMT -6
That would be great, I'll keep looking as well
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Post by kmik on Oct 2, 2019 20:32:08 GMT -6
Someone was nice enough to assemble this Karl S. info into one place!
Karl Spang report - two pages
Postby jhancock » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:04 pm
Karl Spang was originally going to be a part of Cabin 28: The Keddie Murders Part II. Many will recall that Karl was mentioned sporadically throughout the police timeline; he expressed to us that he had been repeatedly harassed by Plumas County police during the time of the murders. We had an interview day and time set up, but a gentleman we had previously interviewed took it upon himself to contact Karl's daughter "on our behalf." This young man frightened Karl's daughter, and because they both believed he was part of our team (he wasn't), Karl canceled the interview.
Here is a two-page report about Karl's experience. The date of the report 5-5-81:
I recontacted Karl Spang by phone to confirm that he will take Deputy Wright to Meadow Valley and to arrange a hypnosis session with Sheriff Thomas. Prior to talking to him, however, I talked with his mother. She told me that she was waiting up for Karl on the morning of 4-12-81 and he arrived home around 0100 or 0130 hr. Also there was nothing she noticed unusual about him. She said he told her he was coming home from Quincy when he noticed a black or dark-colored LTD or similar car that had San Rafael on the license bracket along the side of the road (Hwy 70) between Keddie and the Greenville "Y." The vehicle had a flat tire so Karl stopped to help them. He said two people were inside and they well-dressed and so he changed the tire for them because he was dressed in his "grubbies." She said he thought it was unusual that those people were dressed the way they were happened to be at that location with a flat tire (Karl told his mother this that Sunday morning when he got home). His mother said that was about all she could remember about anything he had to say. I asked her if he mentioned a party in Meadow Valley and she said he didn't.
I then talked to Karl. He refused to give me any further cooperation in this case, stating he was afraid for himself and his children and that he can have witnesses testify that he didn't go to Quincy on Saturday 4-11-81. Also he said that is all he had to say and if he is asked to cooperate further he will obtain an attorney and file harassment charges against the S/O. Also that he will not take anyone to Meadow Valley and will not consent to a polygraph
or hypnosis.
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Basic Case File (According to MK)
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810414 Crimley Int w/ Marty
Smartt: But you live here awhile and you see em. I used to work in the restaurant here and I become familiar with a lot of the customers and that one individual you know, just the way he carried himself, he looked like trouble. He looked out of place for that type of establishment, is what I mean. He was in a t-shirt and levi's and wearing a buck knife, extremely long hair ah, ('See Spang' is written in pencil beside this quote)
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PoN:
BOHNE, KELLI
Karl Spang told Terry Armanino @ two guys in van on road near Keddie night of 187's
<THOMAS>
COMPTON, RAYNARD
Spang said he & Dana made deal with him to sell LSD, he was at party in MV, denied
<STOY>
DELIZIO, MARK
Info on drug dealer, 4/10/81 guy told Sue he should kill her, Cruzita Jaramillo was witness, Jaramillo said it was different Sue, connected Dana Green w/ "Dana" that Spang said was at party in MV
<WRIGHT>/<STOY>
GEER, TONY
Owner/Manager Morning Thunder, didn't recognize Dana or Spang
<BRADLEY>
LEPLEY, JUDY
Bartender Pioneer Bar, K. Spang not there on night of 187
<WRIGHT>
MAREINA, BETH
Lived with Ross Posch, bought Spang's van
<WRIGHT>
POSCH, ROSS
Spang's employer
<WRIGHT>
SANDERS, BEATRICE
Spang's mother, confirms his time home 4/12/81, he stopped outside Keddie to help two men in Blk/Blu car with flat tire, knew nothing about party
<STOY>
SPANG, KARL
Said he bought LSD from a "Dana" & a black that lives with a WMA on Lee Rd behind Big O Tire w/ Wht Mustang in front, "Dana" Y black were at LSD party in MV, V/Wingate & Sharp left party w/ "Dana" & another WMA to Keddie in a Blue LTD or similar car & Brn small car w/ 4 other people, Blue car had flat tire later, he followed 6 people (inc. John & Dana) to Keddie from party in MV
<STOY>/<WRIGHT>/<CRIM>
TEIXEIRA, DAVID
Supposed friend of K. Spang, hadn't seen Spang for a year, no knowledge of 187's
<BRADLEY>
TUCKER, JOHN
(Not contacted), Spang said he referred him to "Dana" for dope deal if he needed it
<STOY>
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Keddie Roster:
Rogers ? 810411-0000b Karl Spang states that he saw Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate at Rogers party in Meadow Valley. He states that he had seen both boys about town before. That's how he knew them.
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TIMELINES
810411-?a Karl goes to the Morning Dew (Morning Thunder) to contact “Dana.” “Dana” is a WMA, 18-22, dark brown shoulder length hair, mustache, starting a beard with a space between the ends of the mustache and beard. “Dana” said he was picking up drugs at a party in Meadow Valley. (unk morning)
810411-0000c (Morning -Time Unknown) Carl Spang goes to the Morning Dew (Morning Thunder) to contact "Dana" to obtain drugs. "Dana" is a WMA, 18-22, dark brown shoulder length hair, mustache, starting a beard with a space between the ends of the mustache & beard. "Dana" said he would pick it up at a party at Roger's house in Meadow Valley. <Carl Spang / Stoy>
810411-2130a Karl S. leaves the Greenville show and drives to Meadow Valley. He sees “Dana” and another man, “John” or “Jake,” and inside were two WMAs, well dressed, and two other WMAs. The six got into a dark blue LTD and a small car and Karl followed them to Quincy and then to Keddie. (9:30-10:00 pm)
810411-2200a Karl Spang leaves Greenville at 10:00 pm and goes to a party at a trailer house in Meadow Valley. Saw “Dana” and his partner and a dark sedan with San Rafael license bracket and a little brown car. Says there was a keg of beer at the party. Saw what he thought was a drug deal going down. All six persons left the party in the two cards. He says he followed them to Keddie. In a later interview he says the party was a week before and gave other inconsistencies (note: the “Dana” above is not Dana Wingate).
810411-?b Karl S. states that he saw Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate at Roger's party in Meadow Valley. He states that he had seen both boys about town before. That's how he knew them.
810411-?b Karl S., while at a party in Meadow Valley, saw a "dark colored nice car" with "San Rafael" on the license plate holder. Two clean-cut men with photo-ray glasses were apparently selling dope from the car. Karl said that Johnny and Dana were at the party. He knew the boys from around town. He also knew Tina and Sue Sharp. The dark car and a small tan car left for Keddie possibly with the boys. <Wright>
810411-?b Karl S. stated that on the way to Keddie the dark Sedan had a flat on the left front wheel. The car had a square rear end with "San Rafael" on the license bracket. Just before Karl got to Keddie he saw the little brown car parked to the side of the road.
810411-?b The brown car drove past the Sharp residence, then turned left down the hill. Karl doesn't know where it went. He didn't see any car lights anywhere. Karl stayed for about 15-20 minutes, then drove past the Sharp residence. The black car was still parked in the same place. There was a yellow bug light, which was lit, on the front of the Sharp house. He didn't see the brown car again. <Crim>
810411-2300b Karl S. stated that on his way back to Greenville was when he saw the black car with the flat tire. He thinks this was the same car he had seen the week before at Meadow Valley. When he got to the Keddie exit, he saw the small brown car parked just east of Keddie. This car was small, like a Vega, Datsun, or something similar. He thinks this is the same car that was at Meadow Valley the week before. Approximate time: 11:00-11:30 pm. <Crim>
810412-?b Karl S. stated that he followed the two cars to Keddie in his van. The blue LTD or similar car was parked in front of the residence just south of the Sharp residence. The light-colored small car drove past the Sharp residence and turned left. Karl drove past the blue car and the Sharp residence. He saw that the inside lights were on and the curtains were drawn and the orange porch light was on the front porch. Then Karl turned down the same street as the smaller car and he couldn't see it anywhere. Karl drove to the pond across the bridge and parked there to wait for the vehicles to come out. The vehicles never came out, so he left and went straight to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville. Approximate time: midnight. <Stoy> <Wright>
810411-?a Karl S. follows the two cars from Meadow Valley to Keddie. The blue LTD parks in front of the house just south of the Sharp residence. The small car went past the Sharps and turned left. Karl then drives his blue and primer ’67 Chevrolet van across the bride to the pond and waits for the vehicles to come out. He waits long enough to smoke a “joint” and then leaves and drives to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville. He also admits making up parts of a previous statement to a deputy.
810412-0100z (approx 0100-0130) Karl Spang arrives home, according to his mother, who waited up for him. She noticed nothing unusual about him. He told her he was coming home from Quincy when he noticed a black or dark-colored LTD or similar car that had San Rafael on the license bracket along the side of the road (Hwy 70) between Keddie and the Greenville "Y." The vehicle had a flat tire so Karl stopped to help them. Two people were inside and they well-dressed so he changed the tire as he was dressed in his "grubbies." She said he thought it was unusual that those people were dressed the way they were happened to be at that location with a flat tire. He didn't mention a party in Meadow Valley.(1ec) <Spang to >
810505-?z Karl Spang refuses to give me any further cooperation, stating he was afraid for himself and his children and he can have witnesses testify he didn't go to Quincy on 4-11-81. He advsed if he is asked to cooperate further he will obtain an attorney and file harassment charges against the S/O. He will not take anyone to Meadow Valley and will not consent to a polygraph or hypnosis. (1ec) <Spang to >
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Josh's Timeline
54. Karl Spang stated that he saw Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate at Roger's party in Meadow Valley. He states that he had seen both boys about town before. That's how he knew them.
55. Karl Spang, while at a party in Meadow Valley, saw a "dark colored nice car" with "San Rafael" on the license plate holder. Two clean-cut men with photo-ray glasses were apparently selling dope from the car. Spang said that Johnny and Dana were at the party. He knew the boys from around town. He also knew Tina and Sue Sharp. The dark car and a small tan car left for Keddie possibly with the boys.
60. Karl A. Spang stated that on the way to Keddie the dark Sedan had a flat on the left front wheel. The car had a square rear end with "San Rafael" on the license bracket. Just before Spang got to Keddie he saw the little brown car parked to the side of the road.
61. The brown car drove past the Sharp residence, then turned left down the hill. Spang doesn't know where it went. He didn't see any car lights anywhere. Spang stayed for about 15-20 minutes, then drove past the Sharp residence. The black car was still parked in the same place. There was a yellow bug light, which was lit, on the front of the Sharp house. He didn't see the brown car again.
62. Karl Spang stated that on his way back to Greenville was when he saw the black car with the flat tire. He thinks this was the same car he had seen the week before at Meadow Valley. When he got to the Keddie exit, he saw the small brown car parked just east of Keddie. This car was small, like a Vega, Datsun, or something similar. He thinks this is the same car that was at Meadow Valley the week before. Approximate time: 11:00-11:30 pm.
74. Karl A. Spang stated that he followed the two cars to Keddie in his van. The blue LTD or similar car was parked in front of the residence just south of the Sharp residence. The light-colored small car drove past the Sharp residence and turned left. Spang drove past the blue car and the Sharp residence. He saw that the inside lights were on and the curtains were drawn and the orange porch light was on the front porch. Then Spang turned down the same street as the smaller car and he couldn't see it anywhere. Spang drove to the pond across the bridge and parked there to wait for the vehicles to come out. The vehicles never came out, so he left and went straight to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville. Approximate time: midnight. Reported to Stoy and Wright.
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Suspects
Nov 1, 2019 21:37:35 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Nov 1, 2019 21:37:35 GMT -6
I'd really like to know who the interviewee was who scared karl, who had no real reason to be in keddie around the time of the murders, is.
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Post by kmik on Nov 2, 2019 7:46:15 GMT -6
In a 2011 chat on Josh's forum a member by the name of Bliss posted that it was "Seabolt" that scared Karl away. Bliss never confirmed which Seabolt so we can only guess but I think if it were not true (that Karl was contacted by a Seabolt) Josh would have corrected Bliss.
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Post by snoho17 on Nov 7, 2019 16:09:09 GMT -6
Clipping about silveira being interviewed a bout the murders. I'm usually on my phone, but I'll try to post the image from my computer later. I never took him seriously but the cops apparently did. I got jaded on serial killers because it seems like most murders I read about get 100 "where was bundy?" comments. Even if he was dead for 17 years
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 11, 2019 6:50:23 GMT -6
Who???
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Suspects
Dec 21, 2019 19:51:31 GMT -6
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Post by snoho17 on Dec 21, 2019 19:51:31 GMT -6
So karl told his mother he stopped to change the Ltd's tires, but never mentions it to police? He comes up to them on their way INTO keddie, changes their tire while 2 carloads of people watch THEN all inconspicuous like, follows them into keddie? Does he make a habit of following random people around for no reason?
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kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Dec 22, 2019 0:35:49 GMT -6
I wasn’t sure what thread to post this in because my question could fit in probably two or three of these threads, so if it needs to be moved please let me know and I will post it somewhere else!
So as everyone knows the Keddie28 site is back up. I’m not going to lie and say I haven’t read it because why wouldn’t I? I am curious George. But I haven’t commented on it and have no desire too.
One thing I noticed on his page is the mention of a Tony “The GreekL G (not sure if I should post his whole name).
Dmac names him as a suspect. Of course. But I have scanned through as many of these threads as I can and have even tried finding where and why dmac says this man is involved and I truly can’t find his mane anywhere (please tell me if I’m missing it). I don’t see him on the PON list, the suspect discussions, NOTHING.
Does anyone know what this is about and why dmac thinks he was involved? He SLIGHTLY fits the description of who was supposedly fighting with sue outside her house. Emphasis on slightly. That’s the only connection I could make with this man and this case.
Someone please enlighten me on what is going on lol
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