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Post by karis on Jul 26, 2019 8:13:35 GMT -6
I love those documentaries but they are more confusing when you read the police reports. The documentary got me and kmik (my sister) interested in a case I had never heard of. I was convinced that Marty was the killer and all the cops help cover up this big conspiracy. I joined a forum and begin to research the case with the documents that had been released. It soon begin to appear to me that the cover up was the documentary not the police reports.
" Everybody's got hidden facets"
That is the truest thing written about this case. No one has ever come forward and said their initial testimony to the police was false or made up by the police in this big cover up.
" Zonita was recounting her story pretty matter of fact.."
According to the account both she and Sheila told the police that morning, Tina did not have permission to spend the night. Who told Zonita that? I feel sure she didn't get that information from Sue. Zonita's phone was not working that night and i can't see Sue going next door to tell Zonita this. Both she and Sheila also Sgt Shaver that morning that her mother did not give Tina permission to spend. But 20 plus years later they both state on the documentary that it was in fact one or both of them that thought Tina should go home and let Sheila have a night to spend the night without Tina. Who made that decision? Was it Sue, Zonita, Tina, or Sheila?
" but these women new a sweet, guileless little girl"
There were a lot of rumors going around in the beginning of this case. Tina was in fact missing and no one knew where she was at or if she was still alive. Once Tina was found dead I'm sure people felt sorry for a girl that they felt may have been murdered so people's stories may at that point have changed. We just don't know because the one thing that police have never released is the information regarding Tina. Why?
ASMUS, KAREN
K. Beckley said Tina pregnant and Martin Smartt was father<BRADLEY>
BECKLEY, KATHLEEN
John & Dana at her house 18300 - 1930, sober, old girlfriend of Dana, Tina was pregnant
<BRADLEY>/<SHANKS>
CUDDIO, SHERRY
Denied telling Beckley Tina was pregnant
<BRADLEY>
WALTERMIRE, PENNY
Tina was "a fast little girl:", with Sandra Foster & Sunshine Horlick at FRC Thur before 4/11/81 no males with them
<LEONARD>/<FORCINO>
These statements are on the POI list. There is not much information available to us regarding Tina. Joel Lipsey, her teacher said she was "street smart". The report we have available regarding the "molestation" is very hard to read. It almost leaves you with the feeling that Tina and her friend went to this mans house in order to get some ice cream money. But it doesn't make what he did right.
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Post by dt2016 on Jul 26, 2019 16:49:58 GMT -6
Hi, If Justin assisted Tina and Rick didn't know that, that would account for their silence also. Justin would have had to find out what Rick had seen though. Did they even know the Walkes or Chuck and Henry? Tina being "streetsmart" leaves a lot of implications.
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Post by karis on Jul 27, 2019 7:37:12 GMT -6
Hi, If Justin assisted Tina and Rick didn't know that, that would account for their silence also. Justin would have had to find out what Rick had seen though. Did they even know the Walkes or Chuck and Henry? Tina being "streetsmart" leaves a lot of implications. Whatever Justin saw Rick Sharp knew. YouTube: Keddie Murders: Cabin 28 Tour 2 Sheila and Rick in the girls room - "Rick, you know what they were saying? Heather was telling me Tina was grabbing phone cord from here and helping them out. No where in here is there any sign of any where you can have a phone in here. Rick: Yea but it could have been run under the carpet, it could have been coiled up. (I think there is a picture dmac had of the phone cord coiled up laying between the hall and living room) Heather was working on the documentary with Josh. She had to have seen this information when going through the police files. Who told the police that Tina was helping? Someone did and it could have only been Justin, Greg, or Ricky. SHARP, GREGSue's son, talked @ events on 4/11/81 evening, said he woke up during the evening <CRIM> If Greg woke up Rick had to have woke up also. It has been written or posted that Ricky and Justin was trying to keep Greg quiet or from crying. (Sorry I can't remember where that is posted Kmik may can) So if Greg was awake, Rick was too. What is the common denominator with those three boys? It definitely is not Marty. It could only be Tina. Tina and Justin were friends and may have been in the same class at school. She was closer in age to Justin than Rick. I think the boys kept quiet because Tina told them she was going to come back. Marilyn said Justin was telling them Tina was down by the river to go look for her there. Maybe the boys didn't want to get Tina in trouble so they didn't tell everthing they knew. They waited for three years. By the time she was found they were older and knew the implications of not telling what happened earlier. Also who would believe Justin then? He had told so many stories and with out Rick to back him up no one would have believed him anyway. And Rick Sharp is not talking. I am not saying Tina murdered anyone. I don't know who was in that house. Tina, or Tina and Justin could not have done all this by themselves. Someone else was also there. It could have been Marty. Maybe someone came to kill the boys over drugs. Maybe someone came to kill Sue. But why did that person not take Dana instead of Tina. Everyone would have blamed the crime on him. Whoever was in that house that night allowed Tina to leave with them. They either waited on her to dress or she was already dressed and allowed to leave alive with them.
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 7, 2019 1:31:30 GMT -6
Awesome! I'd always wondered who this heather" was sheila referred too. I thought it was just a local girl relating one of the many rumors around town. But she was in fact working on the documentary.....wow
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Post by karis on Oct 24, 2020 17:41:48 GMT -6
I believe that the DNA they have belongs to Tina and they have known this for years. You know that (small) amount of female DNA? As you listen to this outtake Sheila is repeating to Rick what she had been told by someone that had seen this information in a file.
From Dmac's facebook page:
Sheila said phone cord but the cord that is mention in the report we have seen is listed as cord from a lamp in the GIRLS bedroom that was in a box under the card table. That is also repeated in an outtake from the second documentary. Dmac knows that Marilyn gave her DNA and it did not match what they had.
We have NOT seen the report so i cannot say for a fact it was Tina's. But that documentary dates back to maybe 2004-2006 and there is some reason that it has always been said that the kids were MADE to participate.
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Post by hope on Oct 24, 2020 18:25:02 GMT -6
I believe the same thing karis. I was asking when Justin's dna was first mentioned on the tape because I was wondering if Josh's team came across that report as well as one with Tina's on the electrical cords, and that is where the comment of Tina helping collect electric cords came from. It makes sense. And Tina is the one person I can see dmac not wanting to publically name as the source of the 2nd dna hit.
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Post by kmik on Feb 25, 2021 22:11:51 GMT -6
When Jackie Holbert was asked on the documentary outtake if she interacted with the police at all she said, " No, uh, the only thing that we did was, I know we brought Greg down to the police station and waited while they were gonna hypnotize him, and that was about the only time we ever really talked to the police. When asked about Greg being hypnotized she said, "They tried to, he was only five years old and he was the one that was hyperactive, they couldn't get, that's what they told us, the guy came out, and I mean it's a big six foot something policeman came out with him under his arm like this, he was laughing and he said we can't get him to stay still."
I can't say for sure but I'd like to think this happened before they left for Oregon because I seriously doubt that LE made them come back to Quincy for this interview. If Ricky or Greg told LE that they were awake or saw anything that happened I do not think LE would have told Jackie. But if either boy told LE they saw something then I'd have to think they also told Jackie or Sheila and for whatever reason they just decided to keep that to themselves.
The documentary was made years after the murders and people's memories fade but it's obvious that Jackie did interact with LE due to her statement about the gun and we know LE interacted with Sheila and Ricky's shortly after they moved to Oregon with Jackie because of the phone interview and the "friend list" - so there was contact made she just either forgot or chose to say no to avoid being asked what was said.
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Post by kmik on Mar 2, 2021 21:23:21 GMT -6
Here is a comment I recently read concerning the Keddie murders:
Here is what I found on criminaldefenselawyer.com:
There was no crime committed by police when they talked to these kids or pulled kids out of class. Aunt Jackie took Greg down to the station to be interviewed and if she didn't want him to talk to LE she didn't have to take him. She took him and didn't appear - on the documentary outtake - to have any regrets at all about the police trying to hypnotize him. I know Justin has insinuated that he wouldn't let police do him again like they did when he was a kid but that's because he wasn't use to any authority and he couldn't keep his stories straight - and they knew it. (he was asleep/he was awake, he saw one man/he saw two men, he was looking through a crack in the bedroom door/he miraculously described the sole of one mans shoe, it was a dream/it was reality, etc....)
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Post by kmik on Mar 5, 2021 8:46:41 GMT -6
If Ricky or Greg really gave the police ANY information against MBM in their 1981 interviews then why haven't they (Ricky or Greg) come forward to dispute what has been told for the last 40 years - that they slept through the night/Greg woke up during the night? I have yet to read of Ricky or Greg giving a different account (or any account) of what they told the police in 1981.
In Dmac's haste to prove "corruption" and "falsified reports" he really needs to consider that the public may very well buy what he's saying but there are three men still living who KNOW if these reports are true or false - and for the last 40 years they have not publicly disputed anything that the police documented - not them or anyone else.
Dmac says that the boys have remained silent because of threats made to them by Marty Smartt BUT he also claims the boys gave LE info in their interviews and LE falsified the report?? Can't have it both ways either they remained silent or they didn't and if they told the police 40 years ago MBM were involved why haven't they told it since??? So either Dmac is wrong or LE lied.
But please don't forget that for 36 years the police said they did not know who took the boys home and when it was revealed in 2017 it was said that the person DIDN"T tell in 1981 because of Kathy Beckley's relationship with Dana yet Dmac continues to imply the police KNEW in 1981 who took them home and covered it up - how could they have known if the person didn't come forward until 2017??
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