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Post by kmik on Nov 18, 2018 21:39:44 GMT -6
It's believed by many that the corrupt DOJ flew over Keddie by helicopter on Sunday around noon, snapped aerial photos, landed at Gansner Field, and hit the ground running trying to cover up this crime (which shouldn't have been hard to do had they have really wanted to cover up this crime). And if Crim and Bradley came into the investigation around noon on Sunday then why is Shaver the one who went to Don Davis's house at 4:45pm (Sunday) to interview Sheila? Wouldn't it seem logical for the DOJ to start their interviews with Sheila and Ricky on Sunday if they were in town?
Ricky was interviewed by Crim and Bradley at Don Davis's house on Monday 4-13-81 at 9:27 a.m. and they probably interviewed Sheila around the same time. The documentary had a couple of clips of an interview Sheila had with Crim and Bradley but it's obvious by their questions and her answers that this interview is not being conducted on Sunday.
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amada
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Post by amada on Nov 19, 2018 9:32:30 GMT -6
It would seem very logical for the DOJ to start their interviews with Sheila and Ricky on Sunday. When the DOJ comes into an investigation aren't they taking over the investigation at that point and handling everything? Obviously I could be totally wrong about this. If this was a massive cover up did they know where Tina was or what happened to her? Did they already know who committed the murders? Just throwing questions out into the wind. I really wish they would release Sheila, Ricky and Greg's interviews fully. Justin's as well. I understand why they are not, but it would be nice to see what they said right after the murders. The three kids left alive should have been interviewed extensively since they were the only ones left alive and there is no possible way they heard nothing during the murders. Kids are usually scared of things that go bump in the night and there should have been lots of bumps that night. Greg was pretty young and even he should have heard something especially if his Mom or his brother made noises. If Justin opened the door and looked out of the room and saw things and had to have heard things then the other boys had to have heard something. It seems impossible that they did not. Again I would love to read those interviews...
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Post by kmik on Nov 19, 2018 21:15:09 GMT -6
I'd like to think if the DOJ were in Keddie on Sunday by noon that they would have conducted the 4:45p.m. interview with Sheila - not Shaver. Shaver had already attempted to interview her at the scene Sunday morning but she was too upset (which is understandable but they should have interviewed her right there right then).
As for "coverup"? There were too many LE out working on this case trying to solve it so if it was already "solved" Sunday morning I don't believe they would have ever put the time in they did. The cover up is really aimed at Marty and Bo - so do I believe they wasted years covering for Marty and Bo yet left enough info in the case files to make a documentary? Absolutely positively not.
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amada
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Post by amada on Nov 20, 2018 11:18:11 GMT -6
I completely agree. No matter how upset Sheila was they should have interviewed her on the spot or immediately take her down to interview. That did not happen, but what did happen was that they were allowed to be around other people (some of who are believed to be involved) and to talk to other people. Really makes you wonder how much "coaching" was done on them before their interviews. Just a bad decision for LE.
Again, I completely agree. I do not believe there was a cover up. It just doesn't fit.
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Post by raemen2 on Dec 7, 2019 14:37:57 GMT -6
The full interviews would be compelling and could be a game changer in terms of opinions/ theories as to what occurred that night. It’s my belief that LE sooner rather than later believed that Tina could some how involved in the murders. If this was the case, it’s some what mind boggling that with different interview/interrogation tactics LE is willing to use they were unable to “break” the children’s professing - we slept through the night, we don’t know, we don’t know. It’s kind of like they were telling the truth. Wonder, if at any or what point any of the Smartt’s or Justin had legal representation?
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Post by kmik on Dec 7, 2019 21:19:01 GMT -6
Just my opinion but I don't think they would have had legal representation.
I love to go over the info we have but yes seeing all of the case files and reading all of the interviews (Sheila, Ricky, Greg, Don and Nancy Davis, the Seabolts etc) would no doubt have us all as confused as the PCSO obviously is.
Josh was not allowed to look at the case files for the first documentary but he and Sheila were allowed to go into the Keddie Room to see the timeline (which he filmed and was mostly Marty Smartt info). By 2002 Marty and Bo had been dead and the PCSO had years to learn that Marty and Bo were dead long before Josh was allowed to comb through case files for the second documentary so it's no mystery to me now as to why he was given the complete interviews of two dead men.
I can't help but wonder if LE has tried to use genetic genealogy. I'd find it real hard to believe that somebody's dna isn't all over the tape that was used, the door knobs, the bed sheet with the blood smear, electrical cords, or at the very least the cabinet door if indeed that is blood on it.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 8, 2019 18:17:13 GMT -6
DNA testing would be expensive. And, PCSO would have to justify that expense by claiming it's a cold case--which Gamberg and Hagwood have been more or less claiming they've more or less closed.
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camfaults
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Researching cold cases of California.
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Post by camfaults on Dec 8, 2019 20:37:58 GMT -6
DNA testing would be expensive. And, PCSO would have to justify that expense by claiming it's a cold case--which Gamberg and Hagwood have been more or less claiming they've more or less closed. If money is an issue, Hagwood should contact Oxygen to get this show featured on The DNA of Murder with Paul Holes. Holes is a tenacious investigator, just look at his success with the Golden State Killer.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 9, 2019 7:20:49 GMT -6
Well, the problem with asking anyone for money for DNA tests is, they'd have to admit the case is unsolved.
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Post by kmik on Dec 9, 2019 10:49:50 GMT -6
But Tom, haven't they admitted that it is unsolved by them not acknowledging that it has been "closed"?
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 12, 2019 5:59:50 GMT -6
Well, the whole PR campaign has been centered around "Bo and Marty did it. So put us on TV." To get a grant for DNA testing, they'd have to say, "We're stumped." Remember--they'd also have to get DNA from Marty's kids, right? I don't think they have Marty's DNA lying around. If they do, he's been ruled out. I do NOT see Marty's kids voluntarily contributing their DNA now.
Remember something else--there's a very, VERY good chance that Hagwood IS covering for SOMEBODY. Maybe not for murder, but any outside review of this case is going to once again bring in outside investigators like Crim and Bradley, whose reputations have been tarred and feathered by all this. I don't see Hagwood inviting scrutiny of himself and his department from the DOJ or the FBI.
Now, here's an interesting question, IMHO: Where is Dana's diabetic kit? Not to mention the air rifle. If it's true that someone had been holding on to a duffle bag, that may or may not have contained some or all of those items, then what were they holding onto it for? Blackmail? Do they, or someone else, still have it?
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camfaults
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Researching cold cases of California.
Posts: 46
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Post by camfaults on Dec 14, 2019 2:58:51 GMT -6
What if the problem if Gamberg? I question his involvement in this case. Here we have a guy who was fired more than once from the same sheriff's department, and now he is volunteering at that same department to investigate a cold case involving at least one person that he knew and rumored to have used as a drug informant. If Frank Davis' account of seeing a man fitting the description of Gamberg arguing with Sue outside her cabin, then were they romantically involved and having a lover's spat? Was Sue mad at Gamberg for something he did in relation to Johnny and/or Dana?
Back to Dana's diabetic kit. I would like to know what it looked like and how he carried it on his person. Was he able to stuff it in a pocket or down his pants? Was he carrying a bag that night that also contained this kit?
And what about the scissors that Phillip Shearer said he handed someone during the crime? Did scissors make the cut to Johnny's throat? And if scissors were used, were they removed from the scene along with the air rifle? Why take the air rifle but leave the butcher knife and steak knife? Why not throw all the weapons used in the attack into a bag or wrap them in a towel or piece of clothing to remove them from the scene and then dispose of them later?
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 14, 2019 8:07:00 GMT -6
Yes, the wounds on Johnny's throat were made with a narrow, non-serrated, pointed blade. Like a pair of scissors.
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Post by jmo on Dec 18, 2019 17:44:38 GMT -6
LE that had a hand in the investigation.
Bradley, Leonard, Hitch, Crim, Thomas, Wright, Brubaker, Marinovich, Forcino, Shanks, Harrison, Thrall, Shaver, MacKenzie, Klement, Vasos, Palmer, Martin, Huber, Stoy, Valintine, Leiber, Day, Johnson, McCarthy, Christensen, McGorray, Hagwood, Gamberg....to name a few. How great of a criminal is Martin Smartt that he can fly under all of LE's noses for so long? (And, Marilyn? And, Bo?) And, Marty isn't really even a suspect until he's dead. I forget. Did Marty ever know? Doesn't seem like it.
That is until Gamberg meets Josh (who thought this was just going to be a little money making blip)? I'd bet all the juicy rumors were started right about that time, too. Then, when Josh is gone, Gamberg picks up Dmac (who has a bit of agenda and "flair" of his own).
I can name quite a few suspects off the top of my head that I could make a documentary about and make them seem guilty. I'm still all over the place but, I refuse to believe LE was covering for M/M/B if that's still the Gamberg/Dmac theory.
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Post by kmik on Dec 18, 2019 19:01:48 GMT -6
I agree and yes I believe that Marty knew Marilyn was pointing fingers at him. I fully believe that the DOJ talked to Marty about the Cheeseman/Reno counselor report in 1981 because Josh Seabold wrote an article for the paper in 2011 and said the PCSO let him see the follow up report.
I'm back and fourth myself on what I believe but I do not believe (from the files we have) that Marty was ever a good suspect - just someone conveniently pointed out to LE by Marilyn and the Meeks. And no way all those that had a hand in the investigation covered for Martin Ray Smartt or any drug coverup created by Doug Thomas. Doug Thomas has never shied away from being interviewed, even Josh said in his book he was more than helpful.
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