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Post by kmik on Oct 31, 2018 15:01:21 GMT -6
This statement from Marty's interview has been taken out of context so many times to prove he was in that cabin:
Marty's response was to this question asked by Bradley
It's not hard to understand (when reading without bias) the question Bradley asked:
Bradley is clearly asking if it's possible that Justin saw Sue's body from the front door of 28, Sunday morning during the investigation, when the police were going in and out of the cabin. Marty first said no the security was too tight but eventually said it was possible that Justin saw something without him (Marty) detecting it.
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Post by cancersucks on Nov 2, 2018 11:13:53 GMT -6
Bravo!!! Great post regarding context that had been cherry-picked like so many other pieces of this.
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Post by raemen2 on Nov 2, 2018 11:26:46 GMT -6
Thank you for the context, I've tripped up over this statement more than once. In re-reading the statement I believe Marty's use of the word 'notice' lends credibility to your point. One doesn't just 'notice' a brutal triple homicide and abduction as it is occurring.
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Post by raemen2 on Nov 2, 2018 11:28:21 GMT -6
... nor does one just 'notice' the perpetrator!
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Post by kmik on Nov 2, 2018 16:56:11 GMT -6
If I had to guess I'd say Bradley asked Marty this question (on Tuesday April 14) the day after Justin was interviewed at the PCSO because of the story/dream Justin told of Sue getting cut on the chest. If Justin told this in his Monday interview and Sue's autopsy was performed on Monday then the police were trying to figure out, on Tuesday, how Justin knew about this cut on her chest.
On a cassette tape recording of the crime scene photos an officer goes over each evidence photo and describes what is in the picture. He described photo 2-6A as a photo of a pair of red shorts and he explained its importance was because a boy that spent the night in the house had a dream that he had tried to stop the bleeding on Sue. The officer believed the shorts in the photo were what he had used because they were blood soaked.
In Marty's interview Bradley is clearly concerned with when Justin saw Sue.
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Post by raemen2 on Nov 4, 2018 16:19:03 GMT -6
Investigators doubted claims the boys slept through the night/murders from day one.
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Post by kathy on Nov 5, 2018 11:24:16 GMT -6
I don't think anyone thinks that the boys could have slept through this just by looking at how close they were to where the murders were taking place. I do not believe that Marty (1) included Justin in his murder plans, (2) asked Justin to keep the boys "asleep" or "quiet", (3) nor do I believe he ask Justin to lie for him knowing full well that Justin could have told Marilyn, who could have blackmailed him with murder to escape her marriage, (3) and last but not least, trusted Justin to keep his secret for years. If anyone truly believes Justin covered for Marty then who was Ricky covering for. I think all agree, as grown men they should tell what they know. Marilyn, along with the Meeks' were trying to lay this off on Marty early on, why not just say, "JUSTIN TOLD ME IT WAS MARTY". Why won't Justin come forward today and tell what he know. But more importantly, why won't Rick Sharp.
Remember those boys played togather in the days following the murders. I can't believe they didn't discuss what happened.
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amada
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by amada on Nov 7, 2018 9:28:55 GMT -6
Hi. New here, but wanted to throw some of my opinions out there. Not sure if I am putting this in the correct place. Sorry for how long this is.
First I do not think Tina was a fast and wild child. Her age has a lot to do with that, but also the time period she was growing up in. 11-12 year old girls were nowhere near as "fast" as the young girls of today are. I think if anything she was just a normal kid. Just because her older sister had a child young and her brother was obviously into some illegal activities does not mean that Tina was into either of those things. Also, even if Tina did not like her mother, that is a very common thing for girls that age. It is hormones and attitude, but still does not mean she was into anything other than any other girl her age. Yes she was apparently molested, but in my experience that usually makes young girls even more cautious with the opposite sex. I am still not sure what I think about the reason she was taken from the cabin. I do believe she was taken and I do not believe that she had anything to do with the murders or left willingly. Even for girls who want attention this is very very far fetched for me to believe that A. she helped with the murders B. left with the murderers of her own free will after witnessing what was obviously a horrendous crime. No matter what she was a young girl. Also, the whole thing about Tina not being aloud to stay at the Seabolts that Saturday night so the older girls could be alone is not so much off of what actually happens in a household with kids of different ages. Sheila had not been in keddie for very long after giving her baby up for adoption and was obviously trying to get back to a somewhat normal teenage life and I am sure Sue was wanting that to happen as well and help take her mind off of the baby. I am positive the older girls had plans for the night and I do think that maybe they were not at the Seabolts when the murders happened and had probably snuck out to go to a party or meet up with boys, but again this is normal teenage behavior.
I do not think Sue was a bad mother. I think she had her hands full with a bunch of kids and was trying to do her best by herself and with barely any money. If Sue's ex husband was indeed abusive I do not see Sue so quickly going from an obedient abused Officer's wife to letting her kids run completely wild in a short period of time. Sheila got pregnant. Surprise surprise. A teenage girl from a poor community with nothing better to do had sex and got pregnant. Not abnormal at all. Not great, but not abnormal. I think Sue did what she thought was best and had her give the baby up.
Johnny I do believe was a wild child. Teenage boys with no father and the father he did have was apparently abusive and probably not just to Sue, tend to make teenage boys run wild. My brother did. Doing drugs and stealing drugs and selling drugs are not things good boys do, but also does not mean that his siblings were trouble or into the same things he was. I really believe that what happened at Keddie did have to do with whatever trouble Johnny got into on a regular basis. Teenage boys think they are invincible and add in drinking and drugs.....
I think it is impossible that Justin, Ricky and Greg slept through the murders. Sue had to be gagged which means she was making a lot of noise. The cabin was tiny. The walls were obviously thin. I think Justin definitely saw who the murderer was. I would not be surprised if Ricky and Greg were terrified and hid until it was over. I think one or both of the older boys had to try and keep Greg quiet. I do not think that the murderers had Justin participate in the murders, but I do believe that he walked around after they left and possibly covered Sue. I do think he witnessed Tina being taken. I do not understand why they will not say what they saw and/or heard.
I do believe that Marty and Bo for that matter, acted very strange after the murders, but it does not make them guilty. I do believe that there are many other people that could just as easily have carried out this crime. Drugs appear to have been rampant in keddie and this murder definitely seems drug related to me. Alcohol does make people more likely to do something crazy (liquid courage) especially if they were already thinking about doing something crazy. Add drugs into it and anything is possible. The most terrible is possible. I have not seen many pictures of key players in the case from 1981 and I would love to see and compare to what Justin helped the police come up with. HOWEVER, I do not believe most things that Justin says as an adult. He is definitely hiding things and I would love to know what they are. I think Marilyn is guilty of hating her ex husband and helping Justin hide whatever he knows.
Last but not least I honestly do not believe most things that anyone said in Keddie. Most seem to have been hiding from their own demons. I do not think any one of them were really honest about the murders, the day after or their opinions of the Sharp's. I think most of the women did not like Sue from the jump because she was a single mom. I think insecurities got in the way and they were all worried about their men and Sue. It is amazing the stories and lies that will be made up by insecure and jealous women about other women. Also, every community has that one person that thinks they are better than everyone else even though they all live in the same situation of low income housing, dead end jobs and no chance of anything better. In this case to me that is Zonita Seabolt. She comes off as a very judgmental and manipulating woman. I think Sue did not have any friends in Keddie and the ones she thought she had just talked about her behind her back. I think the Sharp's were judged upon arrival and were doomed from day one.
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Post by kmik on Nov 7, 2018 17:19:42 GMT -6
If you read Tina's molesting report it is very clear that she wanted ice cream money and it does not appear she was cautious at all even going back over to the alleged molester's house to return the change for the ice cream. She was a child and I'm not blaming her for the molesting but it appears she knew what she was doing. Her teacher said she had learning problems but she was street wise (and that was probably very true).
I agree that Sue as good a mother as any other living in Keddie. Zonita Seabolt is probably one of the few who spoke her true feelings at the time of the murders (and I would love to know what she said). She definitely spoke her feelings years later on the documentary, acknowledging that she was judgmental of Sue, but her opinion seemed to remain the same.
A 13 year old girl getting pregnant could happen to any parent (if I'm not mistaken one of the Seabolt girls got pregnant at 15). I agree with you that Sue obviously did the right thing by making her put it up for adoption as she had enough children to look after and a 13 year old is not going to look after a baby.
It's funny that we all have heard of Marty and Bo's "flashy" suits yet I have never read one statement from a timeline or PON list of anyone saying there were two overdressed guys in the bar (and Bo would have been a stranger to most all of those people).
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amada
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by amada on Nov 8, 2018 13:46:20 GMT -6
I will have to go back and read Tina's molesting report again. With most things about Keddie I have found that if I read them over and over again things make a little more sense. I do not doubt that she was street wise with siblings like hers, and I know people who are street wise and not book smart or book smart and not street wise. I think it is more that I wish that Tina was a good kid and was not already following the wrong path so early in her life. I have a 12 year old daughter and I could not imagine her acting that way.
Yes it does not seem that Zonita's opinion has not changed about Sue and what I really meant was that there is always that one who is the ring leader of the gossip and in getting other people to agree with you and for me it's Zonita. I would absolutely LOVE to have been a fly on the wall to hear everything she said after the murders!
I agree about the suits. I never read anything except what MMB said about the suits. Isn't that kindof strange too? If indeed they did get all dressed up wouldn't people have talked about that? It does not seem like it was a common thing there.
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Post by 10 on Nov 25, 2018 3:14:06 GMT -6
Taking things out of context? Bravo!
Marty went into a monologue about about how silent & sneaky Justin was, about how he would get past him while he was in the kitchen stoking the fire in order to take a piss in the john. He's not only proving the context of the "me not noticing him" is 100% a confession to being in 28 during the murders, but also a decades-old statement from a dead man proving Marilyn lied in the Keddie28 chat room when she said she and Marty slept in the tiny room, the width of a closet, so the two boys could get the only real bedroom in that cabin. bs!
To say Marty's words are taken out of context to fit some bizarre lie about Marty being a murderer is shows just how hypocritical some can be- to trully take Marty's words so far out of context in hopes of getting people to believe Marty was talking about a totally unrelated Q/A regarding police stopping Justin from seeing the front room through a doorway hours after Marty forced Justin to participate in the murders.
Silly, really. And, again, very sad.
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Post by kmik on Nov 25, 2018 16:12:40 GMT -6
Bradley's question to Marty had nothing to do with who was in 28 the night before:
My thoughts are taken from what was actually said not what I invented to fit a theory. It's right there in black and white. Would you like to veer off on Phillip now?
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Post by kmik on Oct 4, 2020 19:45:15 GMT -6
Pieces of another interview that Crim had with Marty on 4-16-1981:
Almost 2 weeks after Marty told Crim what the Meeks boys were saying, Phillip is interviewed and now includes Marty Smart in his story. Phillip was Glenna's Meeks nephew but the Meeks certainly never told it in the years they were posting on the forums. I guess he was a little weird with women because it was reported in the May 20, 1981 edition of FRB that Phillip plead not guilty, in Superior Court, to breaking and entering with the intent to rape. His trial was set for June 29.
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Post by snoho17 on Oct 10, 2020 17:28:11 GMT -6
Omg YES! It ALWAYS bothered me that philip had been allowed to spend the night. But this story fits well. I've asked why sue would allow this till my face turned blue, but it's not like he came home with the kids, just a one off thing. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by hope on Oct 10, 2020 19:14:52 GMT -6
Yes, I too always wondered about that blurb on the timeline. Unfortunately, just like everything else in this case 1) who can you believe since no one seems to be truthful and 2) wish there were more details in these reports. Why wouldn't Mona let him stay the night? Why did Marty change his mind? How did Sue get in the mix? What time was Phil supposedly in Keddie on Saturday 4/11? What day did the Meeks boys tell Marty this?
Mama Meeks never saying Philip nephew when his name came up on the old forums is certainly odd and suspect. What better way to draw attention away from him than to draw everyone's attention to Marty. Not to mention he was supposedly already drunk when dropped off at the church. Could be mean when he drank & didn't like Dana, according to (Trisha)? He told his mother he thought he may have been in the cabin during the murders, was he prone to blackouts? But then his story gets pretty ridiculous. I dunno, sorry guys, just thinking out loud a little here
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