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Tina
Aug 28, 2018 22:04:13 GMT -6
Post by karis on Aug 28, 2018 22:04:13 GMT -6
Welcome curio. There is just so little information on Tina. Page 1 of this thread is really all we have.
"Outside of the conjecture that she was pregnant and someone didn’t want that getting out, was there anyone close to her “loved her like a father” that might want to rescue her so much that they would commit murder?"
Sheila said Tina had not started her cycle yet so I think it is unlikely she was pregnant. But it could be she told someone that.
It is just my opinion but I think Tina probably 1) got in a fight with her mother that night and called someone for help or 2)was planning on sneaking out that night and meeting someone. It just appears that something started in that house and got out of hand. I just can't see someone coming to the house to kill and only bringing a hammer, medical tape, and pellet gun.
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curio
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Tina
Aug 30, 2018 17:47:37 GMT -6
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Post by curio on Aug 30, 2018 17:47:37 GMT -6
Is there any sort of testimony around what Tina got up to when she was left at home by herself? Could she have planned to run away with someone that night and things turned ugly when the time came? If she had planned on running off, why not do it then? Is there any info on why she was left alone that day? And who leaves their 12 year old alone, especially with what had happened to her? I’m sorry, I’m like a dog with a bone around questions about Tina. I can’t help but think the whole thing revolves around her.
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Post by snoho17 on Aug 30, 2018 18:00:20 GMT -6
Tina was the one person who died outside the house, so I also focused initially on her being the primary target. My problem with that is going after her late at night is the riskiest time. There sre sooooo many opportunities to grab her alone any other time. But stranger things have happened, in the end I have no clue:)
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Tina
Aug 30, 2018 19:12:04 GMT -6
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Post by kmik on Aug 30, 2018 19:12:04 GMT -6
I too have a hard time believing that this whole thing doesn't revolve around Tina somehow. It's true there were plenty of opportunities (even that very day) to take Tina or for Tina to run away. What makes more sense is that a fight got out of hand and somebody was called in to help. We have very little info on Tina and what we do have was released by Josh (who got the approval of Sheila before he used anything on the documentary). Sheila said herself that Josh got her okay before releasing the report on, "Tina being pregnant and Marty being the father". I'm sure the only reason that report was released is because the rumor had Marty's name attached to it - and Marty is who Josh singled out to most likely be the killer. So much of the info we have was hand picked to strengthen his theory and to appease Sheila.
Josh played into the whole coverup thing. We've all heard the cassette tape of Rick's interview that was "SUDDENLY" cut off. Okay the cassette tape cut off, so why not just release Rick's WRITTEN interview (like they did Marty and Bo's)? There was no coverup just LE looking at a crime scene with one missing, 3 murdered, and 3 survivors who were of little help.
We all know they were asking anyone who had contact with Tina for a statement - yet we see almost nothing on the one person who was not found in Cabin 28.
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Post by karis on Aug 30, 2018 19:40:42 GMT -6
I agree with you curio, I also think it revolves around Tina.
Is there any sort of testimony around what Tina got up to when she was left at home by herself?
There is no testimony as to what Tina was doing Saturday morning that we have seen. If anyone knew or told police what Tina could have been doing Saturday morning it could have been one of the Seabolt girls. We have not seen any of the Seabolts statements, only bits and pieces in the timeline. So it may be that she was sleeping late and never left the house that morning. Sheila said Tina was there when they returned home so i assume she was home. It has been said on the old forum that Mrs. Seabolt (this was either a deleted scene on the documentary or she told this to Josh) said she heard someone "having sex" that morning. Maybe someone else may remember that story better than me. But it was said or implied that when she was told Sue wasn't there that morning she didn't want to say anymore about it.
And who leaves their 12 year old alone, especially with what had happened to her?
I think that Saturday was probably like any other for that family. As far as the molestation by a neighbor the previous summer, that report was sad to read. You almost get the feeling that the girls knew what the man was doing but they wanted the ice cream. I am not trying to take away from what happened but i just got the feeling while reading it that she didn't go home and report this the first time it happened. However, you are right, why would Sue allow her to stay by herself. I would think she would have wanted to go to town with the rest of the family that morning.
Could she have planned to run away with someone that night and things turned ugly when the time came? If she had planned on running off, why not do it then?
Anything is possible. The interesting thing with this case is anyone wanting to harm Sue, Johnny, Dana or Tina could have done it at anytime during that day when there was no one to witness it. Tina could have been taken that morning or she could have pick that time to run away but she didn't. The boys were in town most of the day and late into the night, hitching at that. What a perfect opportunity to get them then. No one did. Sue was alone during the day when Tina took Greg to play at Mr. Avery's, the boys were riding bikes and Sheila was at the Seabolts. But there again no one did.
I really wonder where was Tina that night?
From the Timeline:
810411-1700c Richard & Greg Sharp, Justin Smartt & Sue Sharp had burittos for dinner. Richard, Greg & Justin ate in the kitchen. Sue was on the couch in the living room. <Richard Sharp / Crim> Where was Tina?
810411-1715c (1715-1730) Richard Sharp & Justin Smartt go outside & play "Ditch" with Paula Seabolt & Casey, <Richard Smartt???/ Crim> Where was Tina? Could she have been playing with Paula's younger sister?
810411-1930c Tina came home from the Seabolt's and washed the dishes and returned to the Seaboit's. <Justin Smartt / Crim> Why did the timeline not include the trip to Mr. Avery's to pick up Greg?
810411-1930c Richard Sharp & Justin Smartt quit playing "Ditch" after about 2 hours & go back inside the Sharp house. <Richard Sharp / Crim> No mention Tina being there. Then again maybe she was at the Seabolts.
810411-2030c Richard Sharp & Justin Smartt come into the Sharp house after playing outside & started to watch TV. Sue & Greg were there when they came in. <Richard Sharp / Crim>
810411-2100c Tina went home from the Seabolt's at the conclusion of the Barbara Mandrell Show on TV. <Sheila Sharp / Bradley> If Tina had spent all this time at the Seabolts what was the reason for her to return home just to sleep?
810411-2100c (2100-2130) Tina Sharp comes home from the Seabolt's and goes to bed. <Justin Smartt / Crim>
Maybe the Seabolts did tell more about the actions of Tina that day but we don't have it.
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curio
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Tina
Aug 31, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -6
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Post by curio on Aug 31, 2018 19:15:12 GMT -6
Nuanced responses, thank you all so much. If there is the possibility that there are additional statements or some details that could be added to the timeline why not release that information? They’ve already given away access to so much of it in, seemingly, an attempt to solve the case. Why not go all the way?
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Tina
Sept 1, 2018 17:10:59 GMT -6
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Post by kmik on Sept 1, 2018 17:10:59 GMT -6
My guess would be that the PCSO never thought Josh Hancock's little ole amateur documentary would spark the interest of the public like it did. Do I think they would ever release anymore files? No. We have only 2 complete interviews and that is Marty and Bo's (thanks Josh!). We have no interview for James Sharp, Sheila, Ricky, Greg, Don Davis, Nancy Davis, Jackie Holbert, Justin Eason, Marilyn Smartt, the Seabolts, the Meeks, the Albins, the Dorris, Gary Wingate, Phillip Shearer, Chuck, Henry, or Steve Howard and the list goes on and on. So how on earth could we possibly say that Marty or Bo are guilty based on their interviews when we've never seen anyone else's?? I'm not saying any of these people are guilty, but their statements could possibly provide answers to many of the questions we have or at least provide a clearer picture.
Where are all the reports written by LE at the scene of the murders on 4-12-81 - because Shaver and Stoy were not the only one's there. So why did Josh choose to leave those out? It's no mystery why Greg Hagwood said Josh didn't have all the information - because he didn't.
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Post by snoho17 on Sept 1, 2018 17:41:56 GMT -6
If the police really believed the killers were two men long deceased, wouldn't the files be available through the FOIA?
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Tina
Sept 1, 2018 18:27:56 GMT -6
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Post by kmik on Sept 1, 2018 18:27:56 GMT -6
Karis and I have actually requested interviews through the FOIA. It's important to be specific on exactly what you are requesting and we had no way to know exactly how the files were labeled. We were hopeful but in the end (it only took about 10 days for a response) we were turned down. I can't understand why, after 37 years, the DOJ would not release their files (I have no hope for Plumas County). Maybe it's just all in how you word it! But it never hurts to try.
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curio
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Tina
Sept 1, 2018 19:27:57 GMT -6
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Post by curio on Sept 1, 2018 19:27:57 GMT -6
This maybe shouldn’t go into the Tina section as it goes to the discussion of others in the house but I’ve read a lot around Dana and Johnny being into drugs and maybe that caused may have been the reason for the murders. Was there any evidence of drugs in the house? I find it far more likely that someone was either fighting to take Tina or fighting for Tina. Would Tina really leave willingly with someone who murdered her brother and mother? I mean, I get that they might not be the best family to have but still. Impressionable young girl?
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Tina
Sept 1, 2018 20:41:47 GMT -6
Post by kmik on Sept 1, 2018 20:41:47 GMT -6
No evidence of drugs in the house that we know of, and it's something to consider, but I just always go back to who would murder 3 people, take one, but feel confident enough to leave 3 witnesses?? Why take the time to cut cords in the girls bedroom? Why get a sheet and blanket to cover Sue from the girls bedroom? Who would want to cover Sue? And if Sue was the target why not take her since she, according to her own brother, wasn't much bigger than Tina?
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Tina
Sept 5, 2018 22:02:12 GMT -6
Post by snoho17 on Sept 5, 2018 22:02:12 GMT -6
The 9 exemptions to the FOIA The nine exemptions are described below.
Exemption 1: Information that is classified to protect national security.
Exemption 2: Information related solely to the internal personnel rules and practices of an agency.
Exemption 3: Information that is prohibited from disclosure by another federal law.
Exemption 4: Trade secrets or commercial or financial information that is confidential or privileged.
Exemption 5: Privileged communications within or between agencies, including those protected by the:
1. Deliberative Process Privilege (provided the records were created less than 25 years before the date on which they were requested) 2. Attorney-Work Product Privilege 3. Attorney-Client Privilege Exemption 6: Information that, if disclosed, would invade another individual's personal privacy.
Exemption 7: Information compiled for law enforcement purposes that:
7(A). Could reasonably be expected to interfere with enforcement proceedings 7(B). Would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication 7(C). Could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy 7(D). Could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source 7(E). Would disclose techniques and procedures for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions, or would disclose guidelines for law enforcement investigations or prosecutions if such disclosure could reasonably be expected to risk circumvention of the law 7(F). Could reasonably be expected to endanger the life or physical safety of any individual Exemption 8: Information that concerns the supervision of financial institutions.
Exemption 9: Geological information on wells.
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Tina
Dec 1, 2018 22:01:37 GMT -6
Post by kmik on Dec 1, 2018 22:01:37 GMT -6
How long was it before LE realized that Tina was missing? I don't think it was as quick as we'd like to believe (since it's now been known for 37 years). Even if LE immediately "thought" it was an adult female under the blanket these victims still had to be positively identified.
From the Stoy Report we can see that Tina's disappearance was inserted into the report AFTER all of the victims were "later identified".
Don Davis in a deleted scene from the documentary: These victims had to be positively identified before they could confirm that Tina was missing (which obviously was not confirmed early on). An APB was sent out Monday morning at 1:55am. If the police, DOJ, or FBI were called in to search for Tina it would have been after they knew, for sure, that she was missing. We do know that Spiro Vaso (DOJ fingerprint expert) was called in to assist in checking for fingerprints in the cabin and Bruce Palmer (DOJ evidence expert) assisted at the crime scene. We don't know what day they joined the investigation.
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Tina
Dec 2, 2018 12:22:31 GMT -6
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Post by raemen2 on Dec 2, 2018 12:22:31 GMT -6
Maybe the key word is " officially". When did they declare Tina officially missing? I believe LE/family knew Sue was the victim fairly quickly. Although it appears Sue was a petite woman, from pictures I've seen of her, her physical stance is clearly that of an adult woman not a smallish 12 year old girl. Did not Don Davis ID Sue immediately at his arrival- which more or less coincides with the arrival of the first LE on scene? It would make sense that LE would search for Tina first before declaring her missing. I have to assume there must be a time frame and protocols followed in order to call in another agency to help/take over the investigation. Fortunately, today LE appears to mobilize more rapidly in the cases of missing minors.
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Tina
Dec 2, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -6
Post by kmik on Dec 2, 2018 12:49:27 GMT -6
The victims were bloody and Sue had bloody hair and a bloody face with several layers of a gag on her mouth. Don said he identified Sue after they came out of the house but had to go back later to identify her again to make sure it wasn't Tina. I don't think they were really sure which is why for a while that day Mrs. Seabolt and Marty Smart said many thought that Dana had committed the murders. I've never read Don's statement but on the documentary outtake he said after "many hours" they brought the victims out the back door and he identified Johnny and Sue. But later had to go back down to make sure it was Sue. I'm assuming Don was just going by her face and not from looking at her female parts.
Even if by "hours" Don meant only a couple of hours that still would mean the police did not know immediately. Don said he thought it was Sue, Johnny, and Tina until they brought the bodies out and he saw Dana and he didn't even know who this boy was.
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