|
Post by jmo on Mar 30, 2018 18:37:29 GMT -6
Because we simply do not have enough supects. haha
Didn't Sheila say her mom "never hurt anyone" in response to the question: Did your mom have any enemies?
Marilyn: The Tina thread, Shiela told me, she remembers her mom getting into a dispute with James over something. Ahe could'nt recall just when, but thought it had something to do with Tina.
I think we should consider the possibility that Tina became a target. When a bunch of us went out to Keddie in April, I alone talked to the caretaker. He mentioned that his suspicions were on James Seabolt Sr. That he was into little girls and hid underware in the little fire house (fire hose is kept)in front of his cabin. I later asked richards mother if this was true. She said, "Yes". I know that the Seabolts are now divorced. And I know that there were some sexual issues with James Seabolt Jr. in 1984 or 1986. I have talked to the person that took him to court. She said he just got a slap on the wrist, and she was beaten up in school by his friends. Remember it was James Seabolt Sr. that removed the boys from the bedroom window.
Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: guilty
When I watched the film, I was blown away at what Zanita Seabolt said. She talked about all the comings and goings at the Sharp cabin. I never noticed anything like that, and it could have been a question that Josh asked her to make her react like she did. However, she was a strict Morman, so if they do judge us like DMac said (dirty gentiles), then I can see where she would get that idea. James Seabolt was not a Morman but as I said she was a very strict one. James just kind of stayed out of her way and she did more taking care of other families than she did her own, (house work and such). There marriage ended in divorce, so I've been told.
*There have been a few people that have Seabolt, Sr. on their radar. Most have been shot down (insert all kinds of nasty words here). But, Sheila herself said Sue had a problem with Seabolts (if this is to be believed).
Remember the "wild, crazy, loud sex" Sue was supposed to be having that Mrs. Seabolt was all privy to? Might be a bit more to that story....
Just throwing this out there. I'd like to read any Seabolt statements/timelines if they're out there.
|
|
|
Post by jmo on Mar 31, 2018 13:44:52 GMT -6
Henry said that they had gone to Livermore to visit friends of Chuck's and that on the way back to Quincy they stopped at Keddie because Henry wanted to see his brother-in-law who lives there. Henry did not know who Chuck's friends were that they visited in Livermore. He said they drove his (Henry's) red 1978 Toyota pick up. They arrived at Keddie around 0400 hr on 4-12-81. Henry was certain that they did not see anyone on Highway 70 around the old service station and they continued into Keddie to his brother-in-law's house where they pulled into the driveway for a few seconds. He noticed that it did not appear that anyone was up so he drove out. On the way out of Keddie he noticed the vehicle that Chuck was talking about and that it was parked facing the street in the driveway next to the Keddie store in front of the garbage bins. Henry also said he was sure the vehicle, a pickup, unknown make, was white or light color. He saw one subject next to the pickup outside. Henry said he thought maybe the subject was dumping garbage. He said they continued out of Keddie and that he took Chuck home and then returned home himself.
"James Seabolt was up at that precise time to go cut wood. It would make sense to empty the bed of the truck first."
**Seabolt went to cut wood at 6. How/why would these boys see him around 3-4 at the dumpster?
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Mar 31, 2018 18:35:34 GMT -6
Well, I understood that Zonita told police that Jim had left very early, as he hadn't been able to sleep. But, again, where is Jim Seabolt's full statement?
Now, what's-her-name on the documentary had said she thought Jim Seabolt should be a suspect, because he was rumored to be a pedophile. As far as I know, Zonita was FLDS, not "mainstream" LDS, and quite a few of them (and some Seventh Day Adventists, not to mention other Christian fundamentalists) believe in "Biblical marriage;" that is, when a person reaches puberty, they are an adult. Warren Jeffs is an infamous example, but he was by no means unique. And if Zonita was half as religious as she claimed, there is NO WAY in hell (get it?) she'd marry a man who WASN'T a Mormon.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Apr 9, 2018 11:31:49 GMT -6
It's funny (sorry I keep using that word) you should bring up Zonita's story about hearing loud "sex" type noises coming (again, let me apologize) from Cabin 28..........
......like, "porno" sex type kind of noises.....I wonder?
A portion of people from Plumas previously postulated (sorry. English major) that Sue was a prostitute of some kind.
Cuz here's the thing. People either have not very nice things to say about Sue, or nothing at all. I cannot see how anyone who doesn't live in Plumas could think she was a very good mother. Her husband kicked her out and didn't even want the kids. She seems to have been blacklisted by the rest of the family. A woman with zero job skills moved to a place with zero jobs. She wasn't getting ANY support from her husband. Not much evidence of any kind that they were dealing much in the way of drugs. Sue's husband was a convicted child rapist. her best "friend" in Keddie is currently married to a convicted child rapist. Hmmm....
|
|
|
Post by jmo on Apr 10, 2018 14:50:25 GMT -6
Hey. Some lady moves in next door to me with five chitlins, I wouldn't be inviting her over either. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. I don't ever walk through those doors where now, all of a sudden, I'm shaking my head wondering how I got talked into taking care of somebody else's children. No Shanks. (See what I did there? haha)
I had to google postulated. (Sorry. Norwegian. haha) People only started postulating after the Dfact got involved. I don't remember anything being said prior to that? His 1 + 1 always seems to equal CORRUPT LE and SUE'S A WHORE. Zonita was the only one to hear that, correct? That's some pretty loud consensual sex. Does anybody else find it odd that she didn't give us/them a name? Wouldn't enquiring minds want to know? That's always my first question when I hear a little juice. WHO?? Tell me she didn't hang around to see who it was...phtttt...
And, on a different path (yet the same?), I wonder what the reason was that they divorced.
|
|
|
Post by kmik on Apr 10, 2018 21:01:03 GMT -6
In the book Josh Hancock wrote (so who knows how accurate) he quoted Glenna Meeks as saying that, "Sue left her husband because he was an alcoholic".
Also included in the book is a class (diary) project that Sheila did for her sophomore English class in 1982. She wrote:
In a deleted scene from the documentary, Jackie Holbert (Sue's sister) said she moved to Plumas County because she had no place else to go:
I'm guessing when she was kicked out the second time James gave her the car and she went to Quincy with Don.
When I have more time I'll type up the entire interview with Jackie and maybe it will be easier to understand why Sue went to live with Don (even though she had lived with Jackie - Jackie had 6 kids of her own - and they obviously were not close. She said she loved Tina but yet tells that the murders did not affect her other than having her sister die that way (no mention of Tina or Johnny's death). Not saying she didn't care for her family but it just seems that the only way it changed her life was having the kids come live with her which she said was what she wanted.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Apr 11, 2018 1:06:12 GMT -6
Well done!
See what I mean? Jim kicked her out for what? Several times. Okay, she lies to Glenna Meeks about that. But then Don Davis LIES TO POLICE about it. She sponges off her sister for a year and a half. Never gets a job. Never gets another man. Jackie is probably the one who guilted Jim into taking her back.
"My mom didn't want us to move to Connecticut." Hmmmmmm. See how Sheila's story once again lacks that ring of truth?
What difference does it make? Ask Sheila. Why lie about it? "My mom never hurt anybody." What about Jim? What about Sheila? What about Sheila's daughter?
That phone call from Cabin 28 to Jim? Obviously, that was Sue. And Don Davis lied to police about Sue's troubles with Jim. What on earth for? To make Jim look guilty? It worked. Police believed Jim may have murdered his wife and son and another person just to "get Tina back." And not just because Don said so. Sheila obviously said so, too. Buuuuuuut, Jim didn't want ANY of them back. Not even after the murders. I mean, even if Jim DID murder Sue, he obviously didn't do it to get Tina back. If "Marty did it," then why is Sheila trying to frame her dad? Why is Don Davis? To get "revenge" on Jim? "I don't care who murdered my sister and my nephew and my niece. Let's use their murders to get some payback on my brother-in-law."
Jim wanted a divorce, but Sue wouldn't give it to him. She clings, clings, clings to a child rapist. He repeatedly throws her out. She moves to Pedoville, USA. (Her BFF in Keddie, Marilyn, is married to a child rapist NOW. Marilyn's longest marriage by far.) And when Sue et al get murdered, who gets framed? Sue's husband, and Marilyn's husband (at the time.)
Not only is it important to thoroughly understand the background of the victim in a homicide, but when the survivors and witnesses LIE about the victim's background, and then lie about what they do or do not know about the murder, the "mystery" starts to clear up.
Okay, so Jim wanted a divorce. Sue wouldn't give him one. THAT'S a very common motive for murder. Don and Sheila are trying to frame Jim for Sue's murder. Sooooooo, why LIE about their relationship?
The most important question is very, very simple: What ELSE did Sheila (and Don Davis) lie to police ABOUT? Why? to protect Marty and Bo???
........or, to protect Sheila? The ONE person we can see who, you COULD say, "benefitted" from Sue's death. And here's the thing--not only did this whole mess work out for Sheila--getting to move BACK to Oregon (for the THIRD time, NOT second,) to be near her baby (and her aunt and cousins, for that matter) but also, she KNEW, even BEFORE the murders, that if "anything" happened to her mother, she would NOT be sent back to live with her dad. And the funny thing is, she lied to to police about it ALL.
Then, (here's the best part!) she (and her favorite cousin) rope Josh Hancock and Jesse (shoot. I have his last name somewhere...) into making a documentary about this tragic "mystery." So far, so good. But Josh turns up all this stuff about the TRUTH about Sue and Jim, and about the best "suspects" (The Walke brothers and Henry Thompson) and what happens then? Josh and Jesse get into a whole bunch of trouble, pedophilia wise, and the "documentary" gets edited. HEAVILY edited. To make Bo and Marty look "guilty."
What did McNarie say his job was at Cosgrove/Muerer productions? Video editor? Funny, that.
Funny, funny, funny.
|
|
|
Seabolts
Apr 11, 2018 7:15:23 GMT -6
via mobile
jmo likes this
Post by kmik on Apr 11, 2018 7:15:23 GMT -6
I don't imagine Jackie had any contact with Jim because she didn't have much with Sue after she moved to Quincy (other than Sheila having the baby) by her own admission. A lot of people focus on their own family and do not get caught up in other family problems. Jackies attitude on the murders seem to be that she wasn't really suprised. In Josh 's book Jackie said Johnny had a violent temper and Sue was having problems with him. So the whole family knew she was having problems with the kids but they had ltheir own life and kids to worry about.
Sue had filed for a divorce because it was in the FRB.
|
|
|
Post by Admin Horan on Apr 11, 2018 9:47:24 GMT -6
More excellent work!
So, maybe she moved to California because more favorable (to her) divorce laws? At least that's a reason. But she only needed 6 months residency to file in California. Do you remember WHEN she filed? That might explain the phone call.
And a divorce from Jim still wouldn't help Sheila move back to Oregon.
|
|
|
Post by jmo on Apr 11, 2018 10:48:43 GMT -6
If Sue had filed for divorce, that is what Jim wanted. Afterall, he up and married another woman shortly thereafter. It's quite fair to say he didn't want the responsiblility for the five children. Nor the expense. Sheila saying it will take a while before "they" can explain things says a lot. I do think Sheila knows more than what she was saying. Holes everywhere. But, on to the Steves...1-2-3-4 "Steve", a friend of Margaret Krois was reported to be "in Keddie the night of April 11 and was high on speed". This "Steve" is a friend of Chuck Walke and is 6'1", 190, 28, with long black hair and a mustache. This Steve was later identified as Steve Lucas (Steve I) who says he was out of town having left his Keddie dorm on April 9 or 10 for Easter vacation and returned April 14. Who reported this "Steve"? Could it be Little Helpful Richard Meeks? So, what "Steve" was this if it wasn't Steve Lucas? Were people just throwing around the name Steeeeevvvve? Now, on to "Steve II": Steve Howard. He was out tooling around with his buddy. Or, buddies. Or, brother. We all know that story. Or, stories. **I have to make a note here. When Howard and Thompson said they saw a guy (or two) and that one had what looked like a "big splotch" on his arm above the elbow but under his shoulder, I wonder if that could be a hideous tattoo? Enter Steve Durham. Little Richard (awww...eversohelpful) says THIS Steve arrived at the arcade around 10 pm and told him he had just given Dana and Johnny a ride to the park and then back to the Exxon. They say they all left around 2. Pretty much the end of "Steve III's story. But, I have to give an honorable mention to someone else. Steve McKim. I call him "Steve IV" because, well, Steeeeeeeeeve. In February of 1981, Steve McKim and his mother come to California from Illinois to see their relation Scott McKim, who was living in a cabin near Twain. Twain is about 11 miles E of Keddie. Steve doesn't have a car and he does not drive. We have a report of Banier Heater saying this Steve, Steve IV "left a duffle bag and contents and sunglasses" with him (prior to April 11) in Spring Garden (about 14 miles SE of Keddie). Ronald Lingenfelter says Steve dredged with him on Squirrel Creek and stayed with him at the Heater house. He lived at Elizabeth Town but soon to dredge river. (Whatever the hell that means.) Ronald says Steve IV stayed at his place in Twain from June 13-17. The police obviously asked Ronald about Steve because (Ronald) says Steve wore dark brown or black cowboy boots with a squiggly design on the toes, had a fold-up knife, and wore shaded sunglasses with metal frames. He would know if Steve slept on the couch. Now, people can disagree with me, but I feel (a person) can wear cowboy boots and not own a cowboy hat, but IF (a person) has a cowboy HAT, they are wayyyyy more apt to have cowboy boots. Just seems to go like that. Now, Kathy McKim (Martin) gave info on Steve. She said he was "violent" and "beat" her. She didn't say he was a troubled lad. She didn't say he was just trying to find his way in the world. She said VIOLENT. That's a pretty strong word to use. He BEAT her. This is (maybe) the only record of someone saying someone else was VIOLENT. Even before (all the extra things that happened to the victims posthumous), someone was prettttty damn wicked. There is a note about Andy Tidwell having information on Steve McKim when he returned after September 3, 1981. Returned from where? It is reported that Steve IV "later" went to the Reno hospital as he is "crazy". Is that where he "returned" from? I'd like to see Andy's statement. Andy says Steve IV asked him to take him (Steve IV) to Quincy. Steve didn't tell him why he was leaving. Doesn't sound like Andy asked him. He just say okay dokey and washed his hands of this fella. Nontheless, it sounds like Mr. Scott, Mr. Banier, Mr. Ronald, and now Mr. Andy were all pretty THROUGH with Mr. Steve IV. That's a whole lot of people to be done with this guy in a short period of time. Not to mention his mother and Kathy. Steve McKim was 21 at the time of the murders. He was an Army vet. Born in Iowa. Lived in Illinois. Crashed on couches in Twain, Spring City, and probably a hundred places inbetween. Went to Seattle, then to Yuba City, California where he died (some records say San Mateo) in 1995 at the age of 35. That's some hard living right there. Not to muddy the already muddy waters, but this report made by S. gives me the creeps. S. said that he heard a commotion and observed a man running rapidly towards his van and flailing his arms about. S. thought at first that the man had killed a deer and was deranged, having smeared blood all over (the man's) clothing, face and hands. S. stated that the man "looked like something out of a horror movie I'd never seen that much blood in my life. He was covered. Literally saturated. He was also freaking out. He had so much energy it was unbelievable. he was flailing his arms every which way and screaming at me." S. kept saying that he had "never seen a man with so much energy." He said that he (S.) was "absolutely terrifiied". S. said that "it couldn't have been his blood (the man's) because there was just too much of it. One man would have been dead. Or in serious shock. Not acting like a raving maniac." S. did not observe any visible injury to the man. So did not think it was the man's blood. S. described the man as WMA. Approximately ?? tall. Medium build brown hair conventionally cut both short and long wearing Levis a plaid shirt and ?? shoes. The man did not have on a hat and S. doesn't ? remember him wearing glasses. The man was over twenty years old and less than forty years old. What I find odd it this: It says: Possibly 4/10/81 0200-0300 Spring 1981. Prior to April 11. Then a side note: It was determined this happened long before the murders. Now, if that happened to me (enough to come forward with this information) and then I was told I was wrong....I'd cop an "Alrigggghhhhttttyyy then attitude", too. The "S." report. Just another one I'd like to read for myself.
|
|
|
Post by kmik on Apr 11, 2018 11:24:18 GMT -6
Tom you might want to move some of this info on Sue to another thread?
According to the FRB, Sue filed for divorce September 8, 1980. The FRB states on November 10, 1980: Sharp, Glenna S. and James M., interlocutory judgement. So the divorce may possibly be the reason she visited a lawyer right before the murders.
Yes JMO, so many Steve's. Steve Durham was actually Steve Smith- but his mom married a Durham so I guess he went by both? Steve McKim's story is as strange as Steve Howard. Does anyone have to explain why the police were so confused about all the names coming up in the case? It's clearer now, 38 years later, and yet it's still confusing. But we still like to research every name on the PON list.
From reading the FRB I assume (not good) that Andy Tidwell (who gave info on Steve Mckim) and Hilder Hawkinson (who is also on the pon list) were older men (in their 70's or 80's) who lived together when the murders happened. Why would Andy and Hilder have info on Steve? What girls body in NV did Hider have info on?
JMO, do you have any idea who Angus Lynch was?
|
|
|
Post by jmo on Apr 12, 2018 16:59:08 GMT -6
Also on the FRB: April 8, 1981 Twain house burns A house allegedly belonging to Andy Tidwell located behind the old Twain Mill, apparently burned down Tuesday morning. According to the USFS, fire dispatcher, a USFS fire truck was dispatched to the scene, but the building was fully involved in flames by the time they arrived. The building burned to the ground.
Isn't that sumtin....
Interlocutory judgement in CA: "It is important for a couple to recognize that one or both of them must file for interlocutory judgment to be entered as a finalized divorce at the end of the six-month period. Some people mistakenly think that a divorce is automatically finalized upon completion of the waiting period; however, this is not the case. Someone must request that the divorce be finalized or the couple remains married in the eyes of the law. This sometimes results in ineligible marriages when one person remarries without a finalized decree." I had to look that one up. Note to self: Do not ever file for divorce in CA.
I like what you said on another thread: You'd need 6 months at the least to even touch the tip of the iceberg with this case. TRUTH.
Just some questions: How did you find out that Tidwell and Hawkinson were older men? I'd like to look into that more. And.....
WTH? Hilder knew of a girl's body in NV??? I've been looking into the report of "a 50ish year old woman gave a 20ish year old woman a ride and she said she knew who killed these people" thread. (I'm sure you're familiar with that.) The woman said her name was "Brown or something" and I think (could be way off) but she said "in Browns Valley or something". That would be interesting....Browns Valley...hmmmm....
I'm starting to bugger up these posts with random names so I'll look into my Angus file and start a new thread when I have a minute. :-)
|
|
|
Post by kmik on Apr 12, 2018 19:13:50 GMT -6
Info on Hilder and Andy come from FRB and Ancestry. They are both mentioned many times in the FRB as being in and out of the hospital, their cabin burning, one write up said they now had a phone and wanted friends to call them. In 1986 it was reported by Maggie (of the Maple Leaf Bar) that her friend Louis had moved to the convalescent home in Quincy and was rooming with Hilder who was already in the home. Andy was in and out of hospital and in 1989 it was reported he was back home in Twain living with John Doe.
So from all the reading it is clear they were older men who had lived together for some time. From Ancestry.com:
Hilder: Birth-May 24, 1911 Death-May 14, 1992 (Plumas County)
Andy: Birth-November 1904 Death-December 28,1996 (Quincy, Plumas County)
Both men are on the PON list and Hilder had info on the girl's body in NV. That's all I know.
I'll try to post the report you mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by jmo on Apr 13, 2018 22:53:08 GMT -6
Can you post where you read that statement on the girl's body? Even if it turns out to be nothing, I'd like to read it. (Maybe you can cut and paste it for me?)
I see they finally ID'd the man's body that was found on Buck's road. That took a while. That's where one of the Compton's live now.
|
|
|
Post by kmik on Apr 14, 2018 6:47:28 GMT -6
That came from the PON list:
HAWKENSON, HILDOR
Sister (Eisenmenger) said he problems w/ "Mountain Blue:", (James Cline), info on McKim, info on girl's body in NV
<BRUBAKER>/<CRIM>/ <SHANKS>
|
|