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Post by karis on Mar 20, 2018 6:26:22 GMT -6
This statement comes from another forum:
Here are statements made to, or about Kathy B. I decided to put them in one place in order to see if I could follow the logic of the statement above. (I have trouble understanding how anyone (Kathy, her mother, or the "mutual friend") could keep their secret in 1981 with a twelve year old girl missing.
Timeline A: 5:50p.m.(Pat Dorris/Bradley) Johnny and Dana left foster home after a visit to go to KATHY B. for a ride to Keddie
Ken Shanks report: I talked to Kathleen Beckley. She told me on Saturday 4-11 Johnny and Dana were at her house. They were there from 6:30 to 7:00-7:30. Beckley said Johnny and Dana were planning to hitch hike to Keddie. Beckley tried to talk them into staying, but John said his mother was expecting them. She said both John and Dana were sober, they hadn't been drinking or smoking pot. Dana had a shot of insulin while he was at the Beckley house. The only thing they to drink, at the Beckley house, was a tab cola. Neither boy mentioned having any problems with anyone. BECKLEY TOLD ME THAT PAT DORRIS TOLD HER THAT DONNA WILLIAMS HAD GIVEN JOHN AND DANA A RIDE. *She doesn't mention to Shanks the phone call from her mother to come to dinner nor that SHE knows who took the boys home.
Timeline A: 6:30-7:00p.m.(Kathy Beckley/Bradley) Johnny Sharp and Dana Wingate arrived at Kathy Beckley's apartment in E. Quincy to get a ride to Keddie. Johnny had a week old black eye, and was wearing red bandana & Dana's blue vest. Dana gave himself an insulin shot while there. Neither were intoxicated.
Timeline A:7:30-7:40p.m.(Kathy Beckley/Bradley) Beckley's mother called her for dinner & boys said they would hitchhike. Beckley/Bradley
Victimology report dated May 13, 1981 Wingate was recently becoming a "ladies man" with the girls @ school. He was rumored to be having sexual intercourse with a 27 year old unmarried woman in the Quincy area.
*Now it would seem that by May 13, 1981 Kathy would know that the police knew of her relationship with Dana. And we are to believe this information because "Marty shagging Sue" was attached to it? So what if he was, Sue seemed to be "shagging" a few. Kathy seemed to be in possession of information about Marty and Tina not Marty and Sue.
ASMUS, KAREN K. Beckley said Tina pregnant and Martin Smartt was father < BRADLEY>
CUDDIO, SHERRY Denied telling Beckley Tina was pregnant < BRADLEY>
PETTIS, TRISHA Dated Dana, didn't know @ drug use, didn't tell Beckley that Tina was pregnant < BRADLEY>/<FORCINO>
This is a report from Mean Kitty's forum. It was hand written and a little hard to read. I will copy as it was transcribed.
A: In reference to the aforementioned report re: Kathy's encounter with_______________giving him a puppy and his_______________ would eat it for supper _________ not a (l)ach . The conversation took place at FRC.
Kathy informed undersigned she had been told by Trish (pettis) who works at the Plumas Co Health Dept. & by Sherry C.(downtown trailer park) that Tina was pregnant.
B: Tina was pregnant ___________ stated she had been told by Beckley that Sgt Shanks had told Beckley that Tina was pregnant and that Martin (Smartt) was the father.
C: Space #6 Downtown Trailer park stated Kathy Beckley told her that Tina was pregnant Martin (Smartt) was responsible. Ausmus did not know Tina.
*Now if Kathy Beckley was credible in 1981, I would think Tina being pregnant by Marty was more important than "SUE SHAGGING MARTY". It just seems by reading these statements Kathy was the one spreading the "Tina was pregnant" story. Why? She couldn't have been jealous of a 12 yr old girl. After all, Dana had many girlfriends and a baby on the way.
Kathy/ her mother/ the mutual friend/ karl spang Okay I will try to see if I can get all this straight. When Kathy couldn't give them a ride she told her mother who then called a mutual friend (the bartender ) to take them home.
LEPLEY, JUDY Bartender Pioneer Bar, K. Spang not there on night of 187 < WRIGHT> Don't know if Judy is the one who took the boys or not. We are not privy to that information for what ever reason. Karl Spang told his story and changed his story a couple of times. Why was he in Keddie in the first place? Karl did describe following a car into Keddie with a San Rafael license plate. I find that interesting because Kathy Beckley was from San Rafael. Her brother Ed, moved there in 1973 as a high school teacher. Her mother and father moved there in 1976. She had a child born in Quincy in 1977.
So we are supposed to believe that in 1981 Kathy Beckley told the police that Tina was pregnant by Marty Smartt and the bartender told in 1981 that Marty was shagging Sue but NEITHER one bothered to tell the police WHO took the boys home? And Mike Gamberg finds them credible?? Besides the anonymous letter to the school counselor these are the ONLY two people to link Marty Smartt with Sue and Tina.
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Post by Admin Horan on Mar 20, 2018 7:34:17 GMT -6
Great work! There are other problems:
1. "X gave the boys a ride to Keddie; therefore, Martin Smartt and John Boubede committed the murders and kidnapped Tina." I don't follow the logic, here, unless it's to try and say that they were NOT murdered by their ride.
2. "Y withheld info about Z giving them a ride, because Z would have gotten into trouble for sleeping with Dana." How does giving them a ride to Keddie prove that Z was sleeping with Dana? Sue gave them a ride to Quincy (supposedly.) Does that mean Sue was sleeping with Dana? I mean, if Z was sleeping with Dana, she wouldn't have to worry about Johnny or Dana saying anything, would she?
3. Several other women, some in their 30s, admitted/bragged they were Dana's "girlfriends." None of them were arrested.
4. WAS Sue sleeping with Dana?
5. The thing is, one very, very, very obvious reason so many women were "dating" Dana is because of his access to druuuuuuuuuuugs. Johnny's own frigging uncle told police Johnny was using drugs. Johnny's friends said he was stealing drugs and selling drugs. Everybody in town said the murders probably had to do with drugs. Doug Thomas, who was in charge of the case, said it was probably about drugs. Half the residents of Keddie, including Smartt, were dealing drugs. The crime scene sure looks like the people responsible were high on some kind of drugs. NO ONE has come up with ANY OTHER HALFWAY PLAUSIBLE MOTIVE. Drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs. But Gamberg and Hagwood keep shrieking "Drugs had nothing to do with it! Drugs had nothing to do with it! Drugs had nothing to do with it!"
6. Half the people in Plumas County have obviously lied about what they were doing that weekend, and it's obvious they're lying because what they were doing that weekend has something to do with drugs. "I gave them a ride to Keddie because I was having sex with Dana." Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. "I gave them a ride to Keddie in exchange for a BAG OF DRUGS." Now, THAT might be something to LIE about. Wouldn't it? "Drugs had nothing to do with it! Drugs had nothing to do with it! Drugs had nothing to do with it!" Riiiiiiiiight.
7. Aaaaaalllll of these rumors about Tina being sexually mature/active/pregnant (a "fast little girl.") The source? Well, aaaaaalllll of these "ladies" were "friends" of DANA'S. Aaaaaallll of the rumors about Dana having sex with every female in Plumas? Maybe even Alysa Seabolt? Well, TINA was a "fast" female in Plumas. Does that prove Dana was having sex with Tina? No. But he might have BRAGGED about it. AFTER the supposed phone call from supposed Nina Meeks to Sue saying that Johnny was bringing Dana home for a sleepover, Tina tells Sheila and Zonita "I have to sleep at home tonight." Funny, that.
8. This is Gamberg's and Hagwood's theory: "Yeah, aaaaaallll the evidence points to some kind of drug related thing. But the funny thing is, it turns out to be because of some bizarre and incomprehensible state-wide conspiracy to cover up for Martin Smartt blaming Sue for breaking up his marriage to Marylin, so he killed her, her druggie son, her druggie son's druggie friend, her daughter, then, with the massive cooperation of half the law enforcement personnel in California, rigged the bodies and the crime scene to make it all look EXACTLY like a drug related thing. Then, a couple of days later, he left his wife for good and lived happily ever after, anyway. And we can prove it. The world's most unreliable secret witness told us thirty five years later about a third-hand story that the world's other most unreliable witness said she gave the boys a ride to Keddie that night. Case closed, and we make Sherlock Holmes look like Inspector Clouseau."
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Post by kmik on Mar 20, 2018 19:18:00 GMT -6
This has been so unbelievable!
1. Yes! Kathy and her mom's "mutual friend" thought it was more important to tell that Marty was seeing Sue than to tell she took the boys home. Why in the world didn't she just say they were hitch hiking and she picked them up?
2. If this "affair" with Dana was suppose to be a big "secret" then why did the "mutual friend" know about it in the first place?
Karis has put this in order for people to understand that Kathy Beckley had SEVERAL opportunities in 1981, that we know of, to come clean on how the boys got home - but she did not tell it. Yet by 2017 we're suppose to find her and the "mutual friend" credible? Well their credibility (and motive for keeping it a secret) has been called into question because they failed to tell the truth in 1981! And make no mistake if we question this then there is no way that 28 doesn't (he may be a psychopath but he's not stupid).
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Post by Admin Horan on Mar 21, 2018 11:44:38 GMT -6
PS: I keep losing track of the answer to this question, but, did ANYONE back in the day EVER say ANYTHING about giving the boys a ride FROM Keddie back to Quincy Saturday afternoon?
I mean, NO ONE would have a reason to lie about THAT, right? I keep harping on that, because NOBODY seems to have confirmed Sheila's story about the boys coming out to Cabin 28 for an hour or two to do yard work, then hitching back to town. Nobody saw Sue pick them up, nobody saw them doing any yardwork, nobody saw them hitching back to Quincy, nobody picked them up and drove them to Quincy. Her babydaddy, and his friends, contradicted her story. Paula (Alysa?) sooooort of confirmed her story, in a back-handed way.
Lots of people have lots of reasons for not admitting the drove to Keddie Saturday night. But no one has a reason to hide driving them to Quincy that afternoon.
Chief said Marty Smartt, driving someone else's dark 1957ish Chevy pickup, drove them to Keddie that night. That's not totally implausible. We have zero idea where Marty was BEFORE he and Bo and Marilyn headed out to the bar. But--Chief may very well have lied about that, after prompting from the Meeks clan. But, in order for the Meekses to prompt him to say that, THEY would have to know about CHIEF riding along to Keddie that night. But, IF they "knew" from Chief that Marty had driven Chief, the boys, and two other men to Keddie that night, then why didn't THE MEEKSES say something about it BEFORE Chief got himself arrested 3 weeks later? And if they made the whole thing up, then why "wait" until Chief got himself arrested on an apparently unrelated charge?
And where did Marty and Bo suddenly get 20 dollars-plus in cash to blow at the Bar that night? Suppooooooooooose Chief was more or less telling the truth. Why, and how, would Marty end up driving around Plumas County in Steve Howard's 1957 Chevy pickup truck, picking up Johnny and Dana and Chief? And why would Marty not tell that part of the story? Weeeeelllllllll, maybe Marty and Steve Howard and say, Baird McKnight Jr, were driving around LOOKING for Johnny and Dana. Maybe Marty went along because A. He had a pretty good idea where to look and B. Johnny and Dana might be more willing/less nervous to get into a vehicle driven by Marty and C. Marty's car was on the blink. Then Marty and Bo and Marylin establish an alibi at the Bar, blowing 20 dollars they didn't have to blow until McKnight gave Marty 20 bucks for helping him track down Johnny and Dana. An alibi Howard and McKnight (and Chuck and Henry, for that matter) don't have.
What if everybody (we know of) more or less told the truth (at the time. Not all these tall tales told years later.)? What if the only lies they told, like Chuck and Henry lying about driving out to Keddie to drop off some coke at Cabin 9, were things they had to hide, but have nothing to do with the actual murders? If so, then the only person who stands out as maybe lying about things that might be directly related to the murders is Sheila Sharp. The last person who supposedly saw the victims alive; the person who supposedly discovered the bodies; the one person we could maybe say "benefitted" from Sue's death. The only person who seems to have not been honest with investigators, and was certainly no help at all. IF I'm right about Sheila, okay, then why on earth would she lie about Johnny and Dana being at Cabin 28 for a couple of hours Saturday afternoon? Such a lie would not "explain" any witness statements. Okay. What PHYSICAL evidence might it "explain?"
Well, how about the clothes Johnny and Dana were wearing? Dead Johnny was wearing Sheila's red gym shorts. There is some confusion about Dana's boots, his bandana, etc etc. Ooooooooorrrrrrr, maybe it's about that mysterious blue sweatshirt. The one the crime scene experts "left" where they found it, in the bathroom, until after Sheila had been taken through the cabin. What I mean is, I'm not asking what it was doing there. I'm asking, what was it STILL doing there? They actually removed the medicine cabinet door. Don't tell me they "didn't" pick up the blue sweatshirt. I think that very probably, they had "questions" about it, and took it back to Cabin 28 and left it there for Sheila to see...Why?
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Post by kmik on Mar 21, 2018 16:18:22 GMT -6
1:00 p.m. Donna W. says she picked up Johnny and Dana at the Roadrunner/Big O tires. and took them to Exxon. They tell Donna that they are going to the foster home and then to Keddie. (afternoon) (Donna Williams/Shanks)
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Post by Admin Horan on Mar 21, 2018 17:02:02 GMT -6
Yup. That's it. And that is NOT a ride from Keddie to Quincy--that's a ride from the east side of Quincy to the west side.
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Post by kmik on Apr 28, 2021 18:45:19 GMT -6
From the video/podcast dmac tells of "Kathy" confronting Alyssa at school and gives a brief description of this "Kathy" that has to be Kathy Beckley - and part of the story is over a locket that she gave to Dana. This is completely weird. All I can go by is what we have in the files and this "report" um if true leaves me with the vision of a 27 year old woman going to school to confront a 7th grader over a locket??
We are missing ALOT here so that makes for a lot of unanswered questions. If this "Kathy" is Kathy Beckley my questions are:
1. Who reported this incident to LE?
2. Was Kathy working at the school or did she just barge into the school to confront Alyssa? (I just can't get this vision out of my head and it ain't pretty)
3. Why would a grown woman give a locket to a guy? (this sounds so childlike)
4. Was this "locket" something that she gave to Dana or something that he or Johnny had stolen from her?
5. Who/what made her think/know that Alyssa had this "locket"?
6. Did Alyssa have this locket and who gave it to her?
What were Johnny and Dana really doing at Kathy's house that night? Dana had other options as far as a girlfriend so Kathy would have been low on the list unless it was for drugs or alcohol because Dana was already having sex with other girls.
Kathy and the bartender lied, by omission, for years - xxxx did not tell this story until confronted about it in 2017. If LE had "corruptly overlooked" her telling them in 1981 then she could have reported it to the FRB, who had reported FOR YEARS that it was STILL unknown who gave the boys a ride. She did not tell it. But what she and Kathy both did was to try and give police some more bull on Marty Smartt to go along with the gossip already stirred up by Marilyn and the Meeks. By May/June when Karl was being heavily questioned was when they told all of these Marty stories and by then everyone in Keddie/Quincy had heard of Marty Smartt.
Marty was at FRB talking about eating puppies - what a flipping joke Tina was pregnant and Marty was the father - what a flipping joke Marty and Sue were having an affair - this joke was nothing more than a last ditch effort to take the heat off of them
I think everyone is way more interested in what these reports actually say in full rather than some Don Stoy garbage that has nothing to do with this case YET dmac continues to cruz right on along doing nothing more than running this case into the ground.
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Post by hope on Apr 28, 2021 20:26:54 GMT -6
⇡⇡ All of this ⇡⇡
You summed it up perfectly, 1000% agree. Kathy is one of the biggest liars & rumor spreaders in this case as far as I'm concerned.
Let me tell you, I have the most unflattering visualization in my head as well! Not a good look. Sounds like an unstable woman, almost 30 years old, going inside the high school to confront a little girl. Over a 17 year old boy.
A locket is a strange thing for a woman to give to a boy. Why would a boy want a locket? Either she gave Dana the locket at some point and he gave it to Alyssa. Or he did steal the locket because he wanted to give it to Alyssa. Whichever way it happened it raises some questions. Kathy was so upset? mad? over this locket she barges into the high school - haha, it sounds so ridiculous - to confront Alyssa. But everything was ok between her & Dana? She wasn't mad at him over the locket - whether she gave it to him or stole it - or the fact he had a new girlfriend? I find that hard to believe.
And, the bartender didn't tell that she was the one who gave the boys a ride that night because she didnt want to get Kathy in trouble for sleeping with Dana. Yet....Kathy obviously wasn't too worried about people finding out since she's in the high school confronting Dana's new girlfriend. And she had no problem telling LE the boys were at her apartment that day. But we're supposed to believe she didn't ride the boys home because she didnt want anyone to see that? And the bartender didn't tell because she didnt want kathy to get in trouble over Dana? Doesn't sound like it was a secret. She might be trying to keep something secret but doesn't seem like it was sleeping with Dana.
Not to mention a 12 year old girl was missing at this point. Coming forward immediately, saying who rode the boys home, would have narrowed down the possibilities for LE. And like you said, every single FRB article for years mentioned how it was still unknown who rode the boys home that night. And they chose to keep quiet.
I dont care who xxx bartender is, all i know is kathy confirming her story means nothing to me, kathy is not realiable & she sounds like one messed up woman. Lots of questions & yep without knowing what exactly was said in these reports, all we can do is form our own opinion on the info we have heard...and its not pretty.
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Post by snoho17 on Apr 29, 2021 14:52:16 GMT -6
I would assume that if a grown woman showed up to a school to pick a fight with a girl we would have heard about this? I'd think it would create quite a buzz
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Post by hope on Apr 29, 2021 16:34:53 GMT -6
Yeah, I'd think that would have caused a buzz as well! And it may have, we just never heard about it. That PON list is huge and only a handful of statements were ever released to the public by Josh. And it seems like he was mostly looking for items related to Marty & Bo + other people considered suspects by PCSO. Kathy's rarely discussed, just as the older woman sleeping with Dana.
This is what Dmac posted on his site. He came across Alyssa's statement. But only posted this snippet. Without the full interview for context it's hard to say for sure, but based on this it does sound like she went out of her way to confront a little girl over Dana! At the beginning of part 3 of that podacst he says the 'Kathy' in this report was Kathy Beckley.
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Post by kmik on Apr 29, 2021 20:52:00 GMT -6
I agree Hope, is this was Kathy Beckley who sought out Alyssa, at shool, over a locket then her seeing Dana was not the reason xxx bartender didn't come forward. That was just the excuse she used in 2017 when confronted
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Post by kmik on Apr 30, 2021 21:38:18 GMT -6
Enter Cindy Zimmerman:
ZIMMERMAN, CINDY Dana told her he was going with Alicia Seabolt, Cindy out of town night of 4/11/81 <MARINOVICH> What brought Cindy to the attention of LE? Did she come forward, was her name brought up by someone else, or was she just randomly questioned? Jerri Roll didn't even report hearing this high school gossip. Did Cindy know about this "locket"? If so did she tell Kathy B? Did Cindy even know Kathy?
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Post by snoho17 on May 11, 2021 15:18:33 GMT -6
Since we're trying to look at facts, what lies did Kathy's mum tell? I must revisit
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Post by kmik on Jun 2, 2021 21:25:00 GMT -6
Snoho I've never seen a report or statement from Kathy's mom - and surely she was questioned. Going over old post on the xxx bartender.
Okay these post start in 2017 and end in 2020. Here is what I gather from reading them all at one time:
*5-10-81 (two months after the murders) xxx bartender said Karl was lying about being at the Greenville Bar.
* XXX bartender said she knew Sue from FRC two semesters ago.
* One semester Sue was in a class with Marty and the xxx bartender.
* Based on Mike's full class roster Sue took 2 typing classes but not in the same semester.
* The full class roster list Sue, Marilyn, Mike's wife Linda, and xxx bartender in the same typing class(no mention of Marty in this typing class)
* Sue took 2 typing classes but not in the same semester and the bartender was in a typing class that Marty wasn't mentioned as being in - only Sue, Marilyn, Linda Gamberg, and xxx bartender. Did the bartender have a typing class that Marty Smartt was in? If not then when and where did she take note of this affair?
*How in the world was this bartender able to "confirm" that Marty and Sue were having an affair? Maybe "suspect" but "confirm"? Was she was out on a date with them?
* While this bartender is being praised for her "information" in 1981 of Marty and Sue having an affair and of Karl Spang being a liar I see absolutely nobody, with the exception of MeanKitty, even question this info:
MK asked a "real question" and it was not received well. How accurate was the bartenders story and did she really know Sue or Marilyn OR Marty enough to know if she was confusing Sue and Marilyn - or was she intentionally lying?
How in the world can she be praised for her 1981 assumption/story that Marty was seeing Sue or that Karl Spang was a liar since she didn't even give LE the answer that she knew in 1981 - to one of the biggest questions they were asking - That she took the boys home?? She lied by omission in 1981 and she lied again in 2017 when she said she didn't want to get Kathy in trouble for seeing Dana. Kathy wasn't worried about what anyone thought in 1981 when she confronted a little 14 year old girl, AT QUINCY HIGH SCHOOL, over a locket she had given Dana.
Appears to me she and Kathy had a couple of months to get her "story" together before she contacted LE about Karl Spang's lie and Marty and Sue's affair. Just protecting herself by casting suspicion elsewhere.
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Post by kmik on Jun 3, 2021 6:38:46 GMT -6
It has been said that the police should have known who took the boys home in 1981 and dmac seems to have known by 2010 that LE knew who took them home so why did it take Mike 7 more years to find out? Must have been buried as deep as the 911 tape and love letter.
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