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Post by cancersucks on Jan 12, 2018 10:40:47 GMT -6
Wasn't there something about the timing of the Blazer though? Like maybe it left too early or late? I thought that had been ruled out as being suspect.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 12, 2018 14:18:59 GMT -6
Ruled out? Nothing has ever been "ruled out." Ignored by dmac, etc? Yeah. But not ruled out. I'd say the killers arrived and left in the Blazer. I, personally, don't see a lot of mystery at all.
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Post by kmik on Jan 12, 2018 15:04:16 GMT -6
810411-2100b A green van is seen parked in front of the Sharp residence by Paula and Pearl Seabolt. Approximate time: 9:00 pm < (Stoy)
It's possible the van was driven by xxxx bartender who supposedly dropped the boys off
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Post by cancersucks on Jan 12, 2018 18:55:39 GMT -6
Yeah, my bad. It was probably pushed aside as opposed to being ruled out. 9:00 pm was early.
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Post by kmik on Jan 12, 2018 21:42:05 GMT -6
But still around 9:00 doesn't mean at exactly 9:00pm. We know these kids were not watching a clock. I'd just like to know what they were doing outside around 9:00pm. anyway.
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 13, 2018 9:19:26 GMT -6
Well 9 was when they were going back and forth between 28 and 26, right? Whoever was driving the Blazer could easily have left and come back. The only other possibility is the green van, right? But the blazer fits Phillip's confession better, and a lot of other people's statements.
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Post by karis on Jan 13, 2018 11:28:13 GMT -6
On 5-1-81, Phillip was interviewed at the sheriff's office.
On 4-11-81 Phllip was at Feather River College, in a fairly intoxicated state. About 2100 hrs Wade M. gave him a ride to the Methodist Church. After being there for an undetermined time, he decided to go to the Exxon Mini-Mart. While at Exxon he met up with Johnny and Dana. They were getting a ride from three people in a pick-up. The pick-up was described as between a 1954 and 1957 Chev., dark green with something similar to a roll bar in the back.
I assumed he was talking about a truck. His story is really interesting but he was around the Meeks.
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Post by Lynnie2 on Jan 13, 2018 12:42:03 GMT -6
List of all reports of green/blazer 1. 2. So on.. 2200 hrs is 10 pm not 9pm Tina left Seabolts at 10pm Saturday night. Going through timelines...all of them...I see more people say heard or saw nothing. .one solely person heard muffled scream at 1:15am but people leaving bar and walking around heard nothing. A dog barked...at what 8:30 pm?
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Post by Admin Horan on Jan 13, 2018 12:44:16 GMT -6
But that's six people in the cab of a 1950s Chevy pickup. A Blazer, on the other hand, was built for six people. At one point he said Marty was driving, and he did not recognize the other two men. He could easily have lied about that. Oooorrr, they could have been Carl Kautzer and Cary Walke, or Chuck and Cary Walke. And Kautzer owned a green and white blazer, right?
Ricky Sharp said Nina Meeks called just after 9:00 and told Sue that Johnny was bringing Dana home. How would Nina know that? Easy--Wade drove RIGHT PAST THEM on his way back from square dance class at FRC, right? Except that the didn't drive them home. Mmmmaaayyyybe he felt guilty about that. And maybe HE knew the men in the Blazer, and so he and Phillip and whoever else decided to change it to an older pickup.
Suppose Wade dropped Phillip off at the Exxon, not the church, talked to Johnny and Dana and the other three men, THEN drove home. If so, EVERYTHING FITS. Except that Wade and Phillip lie about the part where Wade drops off Phillip at the Exxon.
No one else saw the older green pickup, right? But Sheila saw the Blazer AT THE EXACT SAME TIME it would have arrived in Keddie, if they did pick up Johnny and Dana just before 9:00.
Because the thing is, Phillip mentioned that a pair of scissors was used to stab Johnny in the throat--not the steak knife, or the butcher kife. And that fits the autopsy report precisely. NO ONE else ever mentioned scissors. Aaaaaand Phillip said that Tina left with the killers alive and conscious and that he went along with them to "try to help her."
Phillip's two stories have some holes in them, but not neeeaaaarrrly as many as Marty's second-hand hearsay "confession." I'm sure the Walkes knew where Camp 18 was, and probably Phillip did, too. Marty didn't, and there's NO WAY Bo did.
If Phillip/Wade told Sheila (and Justin) that "they have Tina, so just play just dumb enough" then that's EVERYTHING. How else to explain her repeatedly saying "I don't know...I don't remember" to every crucial question she was ever asked?
I just don't see much of a "mystery." Johnny brought home the wrong dogs, and Sheila (and Justin) played dumb to try and protect Tina. And framing Marty would sure help that plan, wouldn't it? But that would require Sheila/Justin (and maybe Ricky) KNOWING that Tina had been taken alive, and more or less as a hostage.
Remember--we don't even know that MARTY called that therapist and "confessed."
All of this fits the KNOWN facts and evidence a WHOLE lot better than "Marty and Bo did it."
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Post by rosedawson on Feb 10, 2018 14:46:15 GMT -6
Dmac is an obsessive narcissist. That's why if you disagree with him, he will call you a Fat Cow or a see you next Tuesday, like he did to me on Friday, 2/9/2018.
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Post by kmik on Feb 10, 2018 15:24:16 GMT -6
Tom created this forum to discuss the case. If you have a thought like, "were the boys possibly given cough medicine to sleep" then I'd have to say ANYTHING is possible because we were not there and do not know. You can READ ALL DAY and there is NO report or statement on anyone's site that specifies if the 3 boys blood was or was not tested or a question where any of the 3 were asked if they were given anything before bed. A question like that doesn't mean you've drank anyone's kool aid - it means you are one of the few who haven't. Several of them should do more reading and less posting. Always take into consideration the members who berate you on 28. It's not the "educated" ones it's the "yes men" seeking a pat on the back for their effort - which (bless their heart) they never get. We are here to discuss the case not to put anyone down - and we all have our own thoughts and questions.
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Post by rosedawson on Feb 10, 2018 16:11:20 GMT -6
Thanks for reading my last posts on 28. I've learned more on this forum (in one day) than I have ever learned on 28 because this forum gives one occasion to learn. I found this forum by searching Google for this: "Who is Dmac on Keddie?". First, that brought me to Horan's post on MeanKitty's forum, and then to this one. I will be staying clear of other forums from now on, and feel fortunate that I have found a place here to read thoughtful and respectful discourse where, should I decide to post, I may do so without fear of a vicious reprimand. I understand the importance of respectful discussion; I'm a High School English teacher and am quite happy to find a place where profanity/insanity is not the norm. You all have done a tremendous job here, and it is much appreciated!
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Post by Admin Horan on Feb 11, 2018 9:28:13 GMT -6
Gamberg's friends say he was a "narc." Gamberg says he was a "martial arts" coach to Johnny, Dana, and the Meeks boys. Gamberg says he was "close" to Sue and Marilyn. Gamberg perfectly fits the description of the man Frank Davis said had a huge argument with Sue in front of her house in about mid-March 1981. Gamberg was fired from PCSO by new sheriff Doug Thomas a week or so later--"two weeks before the murders." WHY was he fired? He says because of corruption, politics, etc. Gamberg says Dana--without Johnny--was at his house on Friday, April 10, 1981.
Sheila claimed she had no idea about this argument, or who the man was. Sheila repeatedly said she "had no idea, no idea, no idea" who even COULD/WOULD have done this. The more bits and pieces we put together of Sheila's full statements, the more obvious it becomes that she was not totally cooperative; in fact, it seems she may have been covering for someone. I don't think it's totally unrealistic to ask if one of those someones was Gamberg. (However, I think it's more likely she would cover for Tina, or Johnny's friends.) Gamberg has told me quite a few lies, and he has definitely withheld a lot of information. I'm very sure that Hancock, McNarie, Hagwood (he was 16 at the time) and Gamberg all cooked up this "let's go on TV and frame Marty and Bo" nonsense" together.
Let's look at what happened between, say, March 15ish and April 15ish. Dana Wingate, troubled teenaged son of junkie parents and currently ward of the Dorris family foster home, is on probation for a series of fairly serious crimes (and may have been guilty of something more serious than the ones he pled guilty to.) 99 times out of 100, such a plea/probation deal includes an agreement to snitch. He has become friends with Johnny Sharp, who himself is getting a reputation as a little hoodlum and nickel/dime drug dealer and thief. Johnny's friend says he and Johnny had been selling "black beautiesw" (amphetamines) around school that week.
Frank "Mike" Davis observes a violent argument between Sue and [maybe] PCSO narc Mike Gamberg. Gamberg is "close" to Johnny and Dana, and IF Dana was cooperating with PCSO in any kind of narcotics snitching, then Gamberg was definitely his PCSO handler. In fact, I find it really, really hard to believe that Dana was NOT snitching (or pretending to) to Gamberg. In late March, Mike Gamberg is fired from PCSO, and Davis is kicked out of Cabin 13 by the Albins for allegedly dealing drugs. The day/night of April 10, Dana spends time at Gamberg's house--without new bestest buddy Johnny Sharp. Saturday April 11, Dana is glued to Johnny like an Alabama tick (sorry, kmik.) That evening, Johnny and Dana keep "hitchhiking" back and forth from the Exxon station, and Gansner Park and according to some witnesses, various parties in the area. Which is EXACTLY what they'd be doing if they were supplying "baggies" [Don Stoy, whom Gamberg despises for reasons that become more and more obvious the more one gets to know Gamberg, stated on his report that a box of "baggies" was found on the living room floor of the crime scene. GAMBERG claims that Stoy "meant" "bags," as in Lawn and Leaf bags. Uh-huh.] to various customers on a Saturday night in Plumas County. Dana's parole officer states to police that he saw the boys hitchhiking that night. Really? Because that's a parole violation. NOT picking up Dana for that is itself a violation--unless said PO is on the team managing Dana's snitching. Which is precisely what a PO does in that situation. Lucilia Shumway, Dana's counselor, states to police she gave the boys a ride to one of those parties. Really? Becaaaauuuuuuse, that's EXACTLY what she's NOT supposed to do. Uuuuuuuunless...The funny thing is, both of them should have gotten into trouble, and therefore, would not have volunteered that information, UNLESS their behavior was authorized. In other words, BOTH Dana's PO and his counselor were OBVIOUSLY helping Dana and his PCSO narc. They say they did EXACTLY what they'd do if they were helping Dana "cooperate" with PCSO--for whom Gamberg is suddenly NOT getting paid to run Dana as his informant. And the funny thing is, Dana's new "Big Brother" left Quincy THAT DAY. And he had a DEA permit to buy and use opioids.
And, who was Dana snitching ON? Good question. But he wouldn't let Johnny Sharp out of his sight. In any case, when Dana ended up beaten, tortured, and murdered, nis new bestest buddy Johnny Sharp was found lying dead right next to him. In fact, they were "tied together"........with a "wire." Get it? I fnot, get this--IF Dana had been wearing a "wire" that night, it would have been taped to his body with white adhesive cloth tape. In the MOVIES, they tape it to your upper torso. In real life, they tape it around your lower waist. Dana's pants were undone (if not currently pulled down) and he was "tied up" with white adhesive cloth tape.
Aaaaaaalllll while Gamberg was "OFF" the force.
Now, suppose--just suppose--Johnny suspected the exact same thing. Suppose, just suppose, Sheila got word to some of Johnny's OTHER friends that maybe they have a little problem with Johnny's new bestest buddy. Suppose they suspect Dana is wearing a wire. Said wire would be out of range if they took Dana out of town, say to Keddie, where they could ask him a few questions. Suppose, just suppose, this Q and A session went a little too far, and panic set in. The only question is, who would Tina (more or less) voluntarily leave with, and Sheila cover for? Someone she knew? Those "friends" of Johnny's who helped Johnny ask Dana some questions? Who else? And all that "hyper" behavior on Justin's part after the murders? Could have been stress. Could have been "black beauties."
Why would Sheila not be totally cooperative? Why would Ricky Sharp not be totally cooperative? Why would Justin not be totally cooperative? Why would 15-year-old Richard Meeks be running around "investigating" and "searching" for Tina on his own, instead of helping police? Why would Sheila Sharp try to give Johnny/Dana an "alibi" for Saturday afternoon that her babydaddy, Richard Sharp, and his buddy Johnny Baze, flat contradicted?
Why would Gamberg and Hagwood be soooooo anxious to frame somebody else? In over 30 years, I've seen it again and again--when a snitch gets killed, NOBODY wants to "solve" the case. One reason is, when an informant gets killed, the police department can be SUED. And of course, an investigation would blow everyone's cover, etc, etc, etc.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't see any real "mystery" at all. Somebody needs to point to the "mystery."
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Post by jmo on Mar 2, 2018 22:06:50 GMT -6
"I do remember it being mentioned that Walter and Johnny had some kind of altercation at the arcade on the Friday night before the murders. Richard said it must have been minor because he didn't even recall why they had the fuss."
bullsh*t
Richard wouldn't forget that. He's a busy body. He probably could've written a whole paragraph on what that fight was about.
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Post by jmo on Mar 2, 2018 22:34:38 GMT -6
Chuck Walke was supposedly a rather rolly-poly young member of the local drug scene (the scene that didn't really exist according to Doug Thomas.) I have no idea where he came from or if he was in the service. Way back in 2005 some people were claiming that they had been hanging around he when he was messed up and that they had heard him say things like, "Man, I don't know how I got away with it, but I did.">>>>> Back then some people told me that he was just an easy going young druggie who had never hurt anyone. He is not on my list of shadows, mainly because since about 2006, his name never comes up in any discussion. Not so for his brother Cary, who did not make the trip to Springtown that day. Cary is now a registrant in Plumas, and it was rumored that he was supposedly at that party at cabin 8 or 9 that night. I will not say what I think about the fact that Cary looks a spitting image of the right sketch.
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