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Post by kmik on Nov 11, 2017 21:49:51 GMT -6
If Mike had any good evidence against Marty he wouldn't need Vidocq and certainly wouldn't need any help or tips from a forum administrator. In an earlier post I mentioned the "anonymous" letter to the school counselor. Anyone can tell by looking at the PON list and statements that rumors were going around school of Marty Smartt's involvement. Many can be connected back to the Meeks kids and Marilyn as their probable source. How would any of those kids have known (or cared) that Marty was possibly in Oregon??
The police more than likely know the source of the "anonymous" letter. I always question the motives of anyone giving out information "anonymously". A lot of times it just another way of saying, "Here is some information I heard passed around the rumor mill and I really don't know if it's true or false so I'd rather not attach my name to it because I don't personally know if it's true or false, and I don't know who even said it originally, but I hope you'll check it out".
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Post by jmo on Nov 17, 2017 21:19:14 GMT -6
If you could start your search right from scratch, knowing what you know now, where would you start? Who would you look at? Who do you think has information that could be squeezed a bit? Who would you like to reinterview? What would you ask?
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Post by kmik on Nov 18, 2017 11:10:36 GMT -6
For me it would be Justin, Ricky, Sheila, and Greg. These are just a few questions I can think of.
Justin: Did you spend Friday night at the Sharp's house or did you go to their house Saturday morning for a ride to ball signups? Did you own an air rifle or do you know anyone who did? What did your mom and Marty usually fight about? Was Marty Smartt in Cabin 28 at anytime that night? How did you witness the murders without being killed yourself? How was Ricky and Greg able to sleep through this? Did it ever cross your mind to go for help? Was there an argument in the house that night with anyone? Did you and Ricky ever talk about what happened? Did you and Ricky ever talk again after they moved away? If not why? Why have you been so undependable through the years if you really know anything?
Ricky: Before the murders, when was the last time you talked to your father? Did your mom go out on dates a lot? If so who watched you kids (if Sheila was in Oregon)? Did you kids ever play at the swinging bridge? Where did Johnny stay when he ran away from home? Was Sue and Glenna still good friends? Do you remember anything that you or your family did on Friday before the murders? Had you and Justin spent the night with each other before that night? Did Justin spend Friday night with you or did he just catch a ride to the ball signups on Saturday? Do you know of Justin or Johnny or anyone owning an air rifle? What had Tina been doing all day and why did she stay in Keddie that morning, alone? What was the reason she did not stay at the Seabolt's that night? Had she ever tried to run away from home? Before you went to bed do you remember anyone arguing with anyone on the night of the murders? How do you explain Justin being awake for the murders but not waking you up? What kept you from waking up if the door to your bedroom was propped open with clothing? Did anyone threaten you 3 boys to stay in the bedroom - if so who? Did you spend the next 3 days after the murders playing with Justin? If so was he telling you about his "dreams". Did any of the Meek's question or talk to you about the murders? Did you ever talk to Justin again after you moved to Oregon?
Greg: Did you hear anything that night? Do you remember Tina picking you up from the Avery's house? During the night were you told to stay in the closet or bedroom and if so by who? Do you remember anyone you knew having a pellet gun? Have you ever been discouraged by anyone from talking about the murders?
Sheila questions: What do you remember about the week of the murders? What did you do on Friday? Where did Johnny stay when he ran away from home and who gave him a black eye? Do you know if Johnny or Dana smoked cigarettes? Would it have been unusual for Johnny and Dana to come upstairs to watch tv? Did you have any pets? Did Justin and Ricky spend the night together often? Were Justin and Tina good friends? Did Tina have a boyfriend? Was it you or your mom who decided that Tina could not stay the night at the Seabolts? Do you know if Sue was friends with Marty or Marilyn? Did you witness Marty saying he hated or wanted to break Johnny's hands? Was Sue still close to Glenna Meeks? Why did Sue go to her house on Saturday morning? Why was Tina allowed to stay home alone? Did you see the green van/blazer, described by the Seabolt girls, near your house around 9:30pm? If not then where were you when they saw this? Did you see Tina at the Seabolts? What was she doing all day long? What were you doing all day long? Did you call Donna Williams on the morning of the murders? If so why? Do you believe Ricky would cover for Marty or Marilyn? Do you believe Ricky would cover for Tina if she was involved? Did you yourself have your own suspicions about anyone at the time of the murders?
I would love to read the entire interviews of everyone interviewed! That would probably answer a lot of these questions.
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Post by jmo on Nov 18, 2017 18:25:23 GMT -6
Thank you for the response! Great questions! Wouldn't it be nice if they would just answer truthfully??
Justin: When was the last time you saw Tina? What was she doing? Do you believe Marilyn painted that picture and the frame came from 28? Did you ever see a pink pantsuit at home? At Sue's? Do you know who the sweatshirt belongs to? Did you like Richard? Where are your shoes? When did you leave 28? Did you go straight home? Was Marde in bed? Where was Bo? Do you know Dee? Do you feel like you were hypnotized? Describe who you saw. Are you writing a book? Did you pee your pants?
Spencer: Tell me about you and Marde's childhood.
Mike: What do you want to know? If I hired a plane to fly us around the country to interview these people, would you go? PS Only room for two. haha
Spang: Oh Dear. Just start from the beginning. What is your story again?
Marilyn: Was Marde ever abusive to you? Black eye? Anything? Did you use Wade to get away from Marde? Was Mama Meeks your friend? Who was your best friend? Why did you send Justin to live with his father before these murders happened? Did you EVER call him evil? What did you wear to the bar?
The Bartender: Who, what, when, where, why? What's your connection with Mike's wife?
Richard: Are you the father of Sheila's baby? Did you see blood on Sue's car?
A: Did you really find a pink pantsuit at the pond?
Bottle collecter guy: Was this the FIRST time you saw the skull?
People living in the Yellow House: WAS there a drug rip off?
Craig: The truth. Please.
The person that worked at the church: Did you shoo Phillip away?
The radio station: What was the earliest time this crime was announced?
Just a few. :-)
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Post by kmik on Nov 18, 2017 19:31:34 GMT -6
Great questions JMO! To be honest I don't think anyone would take Justin seriously anymore. So whatever they got in '81 is probably all they will ever have that even comes close to anything remotely true. Do you think Mike would fly anywhere to talk to any of these people? Most of the ones on the list don't live too far away - so what's the hold up? My question to Mike would be, "Have you found that lack of evidence really is why this case was never solved?" It appears you're missing the same thing all those crooked cops have been missing for the last 36 years - evidence. If that's not true then why do you keep asking and waiting for more? I'm with you JMO - Spang needs to start from the beginning. Marilyn? If the bartender is the one from the PON list she died in 2006. If that is correct there can be no follow up. I don't know when or where Richard would have seen blood on Sue's door because her car should have been towed by the time he could have entered the area and guards were at the cabin for sometime after the murders. I'd like to ask him and his mother if Justin ever, during his week stay with them after the murders, told them that Marty was the killer. If so then why didn't they ever tell that on the forum?? They told the story of Marty going to Reno over and over and over and over!!!!! Also when did Walter and Justin get in trouble for shooting the gun out of the window? Whose gun was it and what kind was it? Oh, and by the way, WHO WAS Angus Lynch/David Figueiro? Who was Jim the ex and what was he doing there? To Tony and Dee: Was Marty really 6 foot tall and bullet proof as we have been led to believe? To the people who believe the was a cover up: Who were the police covering for? Marty and Bo are the only 2 people that we have entire interviews for and we could write a book on the info Josh got on them - so if the police were covering for them then why didn't the police destroy all this information for them? Cabin28: If you really believe this case is solved then why don't you disable your forum?
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Post by cancersucks on Nov 19, 2017 9:59:35 GMT -6
Marty - who are you covering up for and why?
Marilyn - how did you REALLY feel about Sue?
Zonita S. - what did you really see and hear Saturday night?
Justin - who did it??? Who are you still afraid of after all these years?
Ricky - what/who did you see killing your family?
Sheila - start from scratch and tell the truth. Give all details leading up to that night. Don't leave anything out even if it seems like it isn't relevant.
Glenna Meeks - what did YOU really think of Sue?
Sue's brother - what was your relationship with Sue and her kids? Did you ever see anything unsettling involving them while they were staying with you?
I really don't believe a lot of what people said back then so if I had to start over with a little knowledge, I'd want to know the honest answers to these questions.
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Post by kmik on Nov 20, 2017 16:19:18 GMT -6
I have to agree with you CS about a lot of people lying or omitting things in 1981 - but 2004 brought this case to light. The Sharps were not well known (even by the people in Keddie or Quincy) but the documentaries changed all of that. People have had more than 13 years to get their stories together and I'd bet that Sheila, Ricky, and Greg are even more determined now to protect the memory of their mother and Tina than they ever were in 1981 (when very few in Quincy and Keddie knew little more than Sue's name). The words that Victoria Metcalf used to describe the family according to "town gossip" (AND WAS BLASTED FOR) now seems to have been very tastefully said as compared to what has since been said to described Sue and family.
When this 35 year old unsolved case got notice from ID Discovery and People Magazine in 2016, I'd just about bet it was like '81 all over again chasing down all those "campfire rumors" trying to determine fact from fiction - but on a much bigger scale than 1981 with people just wanting to be part of the story . So I'd have a real hard time believing statements that have changed or evolved in 36 years. For instance on the ID show Sheila told how bad Marty despised Johnny, yet I was always under the impression that she didn't even know Marty and certainly didn't know what he thought about any of them. So her knowledge had certainly improved, I'm guessing, thanks to the Meeks. If no one's guilty conscience bothered them for 23 years before the story became well known it's pretty unlikely that they'd want to put themselves in the spotlight now that it is. And it's even more unlikely anyone would come forward since it's a common belief that the police have very little evidence.
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Post by cancersucks on Nov 21, 2017 5:46:28 GMT -6
Right kmik and that's why I still keep Sue's brother and ex-husband in the back of my mind. Even if the ex was in CT, who's to say he didn't hire someone to kill them? I'd like to know the real family dynamics when she stayed with him. The Meeks. I have a sneaking suspicion that they fed more twists into this story than anyone could imagine.
If I can remember, I'm going to watch that People Magazine show tonight. It's been a long time since I've watched anything about Keddie.
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Post by free2seekme on Nov 21, 2017 20:26:08 GMT -6
I wasn't sure where to post this but something has been bothering me. Why would people think marde was person to get Tina pregnant? Somewhere I also read one of the meek boys but on poi statements Kathleen B says it. She was friends with Johnny and Dana and I wonder if she heard it from them. I can't understand how this poor little girl was treated so grown up. It's almost like it was common place there. Also why after all these years would Kathleen B finally come clean about the ride? And a cops wife really??? She didn't want to get her in trouble? Big deal. Sounded like it wasn't such a secret about her and Dana anyway. I just feel like it's odd that marde would be accussed of being father. I think the pregnancy has a ring if truth to it. Sheila was 14 apparently that's ok and no one got in trouble for that but a 12 year old might finally draw some attention to the pedos everywhere.
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Post by free2seekme on Nov 21, 2017 20:31:52 GMT -6
Oh i also read that the neighbor could hear sue having" relations" but didn't hear a triple murder. Must have been some crazy sex. So many of these people's statement's make no sense and Marilyn is at the bar with hubby one night then next night just never with him again??
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Post by kmik on Nov 21, 2017 23:37:23 GMT -6
These are the excerpts of reports saying Tina was pregnant. A
In reference to the aforementioned
report re: Kathy's encounter w/
giving him a puppy & his
would eat it for supper- Kathy maintains
the subject was Martin Smartt - not a
[l]ach. The conversation took place at F.R.C. (Feather River College)
Kathy informed undersigned that she
had been told by T===h [Trish?] (who works
[at] the Plumas Co Health Dept) and by Sh===y
====== (Downtown Trailer Park) that Tina was pregnant.
B
Tina was pregnant.
====== stated she had been told
by [Beckley] that Sgt. Shanks had
told [Beckley] that Tina was pregnant
that Martin [Smartt] was the father.
C
Space #6 Downtown Trailer Park
Stated K[athy Beckley] h
her that Tina was pregnant
Martin [Smartt] was responsible
Asmus [] did not know Tina
The story of Tina being pregnant appears to have been told to the police by Kathy B, who was told by Trish (who worked at the Health Dept.) and Sherry (of the downtown trailer park) but Trish and Sherry denied telling her the story. It looks like Ken Shank's name was attached as being the one who told Kathy that Marty was supposedly the father. Why would he have told Kathy B anything?
From the PON List:
PETTIS, TRISHA
Dated Dana, didn't know @ drug use, didn't tell Beckley that Tina was pregnant
<BRADLEY>/<FORCINO>
CUDDIO, SHERRY
Denied telling Beckley Tina was pregnant
<BRADLEY>
I'm not surprised that rumors went around that Tina was possibly pregnant or that Marty's name got attached as being the father after Marilyn started pointing to him as the murderer.
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Post by jmo on Nov 21, 2017 23:42:40 GMT -6
Judith Mary McBeen passed from this life suddenly, Monday morning, August 14th, 2006 with her loving husband at her side at Seneca District Hospital located in Chester, CA. The youngest of ten children born to Henry and Dolores Lepley, she was born November 3, 1943 in North Bend, Oregon where she was also raised and educated. Judy is a 1961 graduate of Marshfield High School of Coos Bay, Oregon and went on to attend Oregon State. In 1972 she moved to Greenville, CA until relocating to Tenakee Springs and Juneau, Alaska. While residing in Alaska she continued her education receiving a BA in Library Science form the University of Alaska, Juneau. She returned to Greenville in 1997. While residing in Greenville her first time around, while bartending she met a customer James McBeen, it is said that it was love at first sight and the two were united in matrimony in Reno, Nevada on September 24, 1982.
Sue took 2 typing classes at FRC - one with Marilyn and Mike's wife - the other class Sue took with Marty and the bartender. Wow. Sue must have been terrible at typing if she needed TWO typing classes. And, Mike's wife needed a typing class at FRC after attending Oregon State and receiving a BA in Library Science from The University of Alaska, Juneau?
I think these people are all mixed up. Including Mike's wife. Why oh why would he tell 28 this and involve her? If it fits into his theory, he just spreads his trash without looking anything up. But, boy oh boy, he sure likes the "Sue having loud sexual relations" story. Why? It fits in to his theory that Sue was prostituting herself. Prettttyyy sure Sue wasn't screaming "Give it to me now, Big Boy" like we're led to believe from 28's site. And, what's with Mrs. Creepymisscreeperson standing there listening??
Sounds more like someone was raped in that house that day. Sue? Tina? Could Sue have been going to report it? That'd put a new spin on things, wouldn't it. Might bring in the Seabolt family in a whole different light....
At this point I'd bet my last dollar that the murderers were related. Blood is always thicker than water. So, who do we have? The Walkes. The Meeks. The Seabolts.
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Post by jmo on Nov 22, 2017 0:09:52 GMT -6
Seems as though ALL the pregnancy stories start with Kathy. Kathy and Donna. Donna and Kathy. If anything breaks in this case, the information is going to come from a female. So. why can't the females that grew up around Quincy/Keddie be questioned or requestioned? Girls grow up to be women that realize these old men are nothing to be afraid of...most of them have found Jesus at this point anyways....JMO
Has Mike interviewed ANYBODY other than Dmac? Hope he's earning his paycheck SOMEHOW. I'd fire him in a New York minute.
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Post by free2seekme on Nov 22, 2017 3:14:05 GMT -6
Thank you for responses. Interesting thought on rape theory. I've only been reading up since I saw rerun of people investigation episode. I've been reading for hours every night and my head is spinning from so many different plausible theories. I must admit I was fooled by that other forum but his lunatic rantings made me look further and although I think he's got some good information I do think it's cherry picked and I wouldn't dare question anything over there cuz if I did I'm pretty sure he'd have some choice words for me.i don't type fast enough for internet rumble.,..I guess I need to start from the beginning again without being swayed in one direction. I guess someone being rejected doesn't seem like a likely motive. Now rape molestation drug theft or informant or adoption all seem more plausible theories.i feel like minor discrepancies due to shock I'm sure have been made out to be liars so I think I'll start with the minor discrepancies vs blatant liars and why they would be motivated to lie. Ugh... headache lol
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Post by karis on Nov 22, 2017 8:55:51 GMT -6
Free2seekme you have nailed your opinion of dmac. Someone has been feeding him information from the start. I suspect that person has been Mike G. I am not impressed with him as an investigator. If you have access to Feather River Bulletin and you search for articles from around 1977 - (maybe) 1984 on him and his problems with the police (where he was working and had been fired) you will find sloppy police work, taking evidence home instead of booking it in, ect. If there was any kind of coverup in this case why wouldn't Greg H. bring in a neutral party, not someone who had worked there at the time and had their own problems with the police - Doug Thomas. No, after doing research on Mike G. I'm NOT impressed. Remember he, himself said he wanted to work on this case but was not allowed to or warned off the case. From all accounts he was a lazy cop. If he didn't know about the pink pants suit until dmac brought it to his attention then he didn't even know as much as dmac's forum members. The great "love letter find" was a mystery to me too as it had been on the forum for years. It was actually leaked to Josh H. during the filming of the documentary so police had access to it. If he hadn't recovered those things until recently (and he's been on the case since maybe 2013) what has he been doing? ? There is a lot more I would love to say but so much for my ramblings. Now to the story of Tina being pregnant. Sheila said Tina had not started her cycle so she didn't think it was likely that she could be pregnant. Whether that is true or not, like many things in this case we will never know the truth. From the POI list: Penny Waltermire- Tina was "a fast little girl" W/Sandra Foster and Sunshine Horlick @frc before 4-11 no males with them. Penny Waltermire was a sister to Cherry Cudio who was memtioned in the post above. Sandra foster's mother was married to Thomas Curnow's father-in-law. Thomas Curnow who was hypnotized about the 2 men he saw close to Gray's flower shop where he worked. If you listen to this session, (it's on youtube) his description sounds a lot like Justin's with some minor differences. Sandy Foster, who was living in Sacramento at the time had apparently come to town with these 2 men. She was seen at the ballfield with Sunshine and Penny, who gave the report on Tina. These were credible leads that the police were chasing down.
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