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Post by Admin Horan on Oct 28, 2017 9:16:47 GMT -6
Remember, and this my pet hypothesis until we get more actual documents, Sue was probably lying on the couch/watching TV when the boys arrived home, and THEN she went into the girls bedroom.
Here is a question I keep forgetting to ask--just what IS Jamie Seabolt, Jr's alibi for that night? We all pretty much assume he was in the Seabolt cabin (26, right?) all night. But, how does that square with Zonita's "morals?" Really? The "older girls only" sleepover included Jamie? I don't know about that, especially when there is NO mention of it in any known witness "statements." And in a family who, by both choice and necessity, live a kind of "pioneer" self-sufficient life, it's odd that Jamie did not go out and help his dad "cut firewood" that morning...
Why does it matter? Well, as the old cliche correctly goes, the first suspects include A. The last person known to see the victims alive; and B. The person who "discovers" the bodies. C. Family/spouses. D. Known enemies. That's Sheila Sharp, on at least three of those four counts, according to Sheila herself. And Sheila's stories don't line up well. But Jamie ALSO supposedly went through Cabin 28 before police arrived. What time did SHEILA SHARP go to bed? Why don't we know? She SAID she dropped an armload of clothes on the living room floor before she ran back to Cabin 26. What clothes? The red shorts SOAKED with blood found exactly where she said she dropped HER night clothes? If not, then which ARE her clothes?
The only thing Sheila could have "gained" by murdering her mother is "emancipation" from her mother. And maybe revenge for making her give up her baby. The Meeks family swear they repeatedly offered to help take care of Sheila and the baby. Tina may have struck up a "relationship" with another Meeks boy (or maybe just imagined she had). Not only did Sue maybe put the kibosh on that, but Tina naturally saw how Sue treated Sheila. None of which explains what happened to Johnny, let alone Dana. Unless, of course, it does...
I still want to know what Sue got in exchange for Sheila's baby...she MUST have known the parents. They lived near her sister, and Sheila had little to no trouble finding them. That strongly indicates a privately-arranged adoption. Those cost money.
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Post by jmo on Oct 29, 2017 21:27:32 GMT -6
Heck 'n yes. That would have gone to motive in 3-2-1. In 1981. NO DOUBT.
I need to ask...Just another hammer in the pond? Is there some doubt about the hammer in the pond? I thought it was engraved THIS IS MARDE'S HAMMER AND BO USED IT TOO haha
And, I don't know where you want to move this to but can everyone stop talking about Marde's FAKE birthday??? We have birth records, marriage records, military records, etc. and ONE has a mistake on it. (OR IS IT??) The only place I can find that shows Marde's birthday as 4-11 looks like a sketchy "Ancestry.com" or something. Not saying that someone made that up but I'm really thinking that SOMEONE MADE THAT UP.
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Post by jmo on Oct 29, 2017 23:07:17 GMT -6
I can agree that Sue was on the couch watching TV and then went to bed. But, someone must have "convinced" her to come out of the bedroom without her glasses.
And, Jaimie...what DO we know about him? Why didn't he go cut wood with Sr.? Was that normal? Seems odd. Why was he home? WAS he home? Can someone post the low down on Jamie? Seems I don't know very much about him other than he was the one Sheila "woke up" (?) to go with to check on her family. If Sheila was screaming like a banshee, I don't think any sane adult would allow another kid to go check it out first. After all, nobody would know what they'd be walking in to, right? Any Jamie statements out there??
I like the A,B,C,D of it all. Why not start from there? It would be nice to actually eliminate some people. Sheila for starters. What time was church? Did she really go home for "a curling iron" or "clothes" like she said? If you're staying at the Seabolts and know you're going to church on Sunday (no surprise there!), don't you just bring that stuff with you?
As far as the adoption goes, didn't the kids say they had a good Christmas? How do you do that on $250 a month military pay? I'm still not convinced Sheila's baby had anything to do with the murders (yeah, yeah, I know) but, all that aside, wouldn't Christmas consist of socks and pencils? Takes money to travel to OR, too. Pretty sure they knew where that baby was going. And, while I'm on it...how sure are we that Richard was the father? Another unpopular notion that people don't want to talk about.
We tend to stay away from ripping on Sheila because God bless her if she knows nothing but, good grief.
1. She's raped by her father. (Another Avery look alike FFS. Did nobody stay away from perms in the 80s?) 2. She has a baby at 14 that she gives up to a family that she could very well keep in contact with but she doesn't. 3. She (and Tina!) have huge Mom problems. 4. She says she's protecting "the boys" but isn't worried at all about Tina. 5. She's sleeping three feet away (under a window!) and hears nothing and sees less. 6. She goes home EARLY to get (a curling iron) (clothes) for church and drops clothes that aren't found. (Or at least we haven't seen a record of anything like that.)
On and on. But, that still leaves us with WHO murdered these people and why was Tina dressed and gone?
So many reports that I'd like to read. So many reports that were never written. So many follow up questions that should have been asked. Oh, Sheila. What do you know?
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Post by kmik on Oct 30, 2017 5:41:32 GMT -6
From the Shaver report: 4-12-81 Approx 0930 hrs I contacted Seabolt, James Lee Jr. 15 yrs. He said that Sharp, Shelia Ann spent the night at his house, that her sister Sharp, Tina 12 yrs had been there until approx 2200 hrs and Tina went home. This morning at 0800 Shelia went home, but then came running back screaming that someone in there was dead, described the blood and knife. He and his mother went with Shelia back to the house, his father, James Seabolt had gone woodcutting in early AM. The looked into bedroom window and saw the boys sleeping in bed, but could not locate anyone in the other bedroom. The mother and Tina were not there. He helped get the boys out through the window. He then went into the house through the open rear door. He was trying to determine if anyone else was there. He checked all the rooms and found no one other than the bodies in the living room. He left closing the rear door behind him. (This is the only time Jamie said he went inside he later said he did not go in the house)
From the PON List: (This could be Sr. not sure) RHODES, VICKY
Knew Sue through Head Start Prog. But nothing personal, knew Jim Seabolt, had argument with him @ another woman and he hit her
<BRADLEY>
From Timeline A: March 1981 (2-3 weeks before the 187) Jack, who lives across from the Wheeler's, asked James Seabolt jr. to get Sue so she could meet friend (Daryl Josephson). (James Seabolt Jr./Bradley
The info T. Curnow gave on the 2 guys was investigated as far as we can see (including the report on S. Foster and C. Cook). He was hypnotized and a portion of that can be heard on a deleted outtake. But Josh was only interested in Marty and Bo. As for Jamie Seabolt, that's really all we have and I don't think that's a conspiracy I just think that is all Josh saw or collected that included info on Jamie Seabolt. We all know there is a full statement for him (and many others) somewhere but not in our info. As for Shelia's things I'm sure that is on a report we just don't have it. The SacBee ran a story on the murders last year and in the photo they used you can clearly see what appears to be some things crumpled up at the front door where she said she dropped her things (the photo had to have been taken soon after the murders were reported because Sue's car is still in the backyard). I think it's important to remember that just because we don't see a report on something doesn't mean there isn't one. It just means we don't have everything. The info given to or taken by Josh is all we have. This was never intended to be "investigated" by the public. If he had more he never shared it.
JMO, my sister and I have discussed this case almost every single day for the last 3 1/2 years. It's not the normal unsolved murder case. There were so many possible motives, so little evidence, 3 boys who survived, 3 people who were left dead on the living room floor, one missing, and one family member spending the night next door.
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Post by cancersucks on Oct 30, 2017 11:47:08 GMT -6
I may be wrong but didn't I read somewhere that the Seabolts had a dog who barked at strangers but the dog didn't make a sound that night? So, he must have known who was out there.
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Post by kmik on Nov 1, 2017 19:17:37 GMT -6
I don't know what she said in 1981 but this is what she said on the deleted scene:
CS, I'm not sure what anyone really remembered after 28+ years. Such a cluster!
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Post by cancersucks on Nov 2, 2017 7:54:10 GMT -6
Ha! I know somewhere I read the exact opposite!
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Post by Admin Horan on Nov 3, 2017 7:40:38 GMT -6
jmo: FWIW, I have some experience as an investigator, and based on the known forensic evidence, I have put together a pretty good "chronology" of what happened in the living room. To summarize: Sue was attacked LAST, not first. There's no other way to fit the forensic evidence.
So, assuming that Sue was lying on the couch when Johnny, Dana, and possibly someone else arrived at Cabin 28, Sue may very well have gone into the girls bedroom to let them hang out in the living room. An hour or so later, she got up (maybe she heard something) and went back out into the living room. Seeing Johnny lying on the floor in a puddle of his own blood, she rushed over, turned him onto his back, screamed, started to run for the front door, and was shot and battered with the missing Daisy 880 air rifle. Then she was bound and gagged. Why gagged? Why not kill her outright? That indicates a powerful reluctance on the part of the killer(s) to kill her. That is, they were hoping they could leave WITHOUT killing her. And when they did finally killer, they covered HER, and not the other two victims, with two blankets. Hmmmmmm....
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Post by jmo on Nov 3, 2017 20:52:53 GMT -6
810411-2200c Paula Varker, Cabin 18, is awakened by her dog barking towards the vacant lot behind the Sharp residence. She looks at the clock & goes back to sleep. <Paula Varker / Crim> I believe the people in 17 and 27(?) reported they didn't hear any dogs.
Your summary sure makes sense to me. Maybe a fight started between Dana and Johnny and it escalated very quickly. It's logical. So, just a quick question...
Seeing that both Dana and Johnny both ended up dead, do you think A. someone came in with them? B. they were caught off guard by "intruders"? or C. nobody else (outside of that cabin) is involved with the killings?
I still think Justin is the one that covered her. For whatever his reasons may have been...
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Post by jmo on Nov 5, 2017 23:52:22 GMT -6
I can't find the post on the "proof" of Sue sleeping with Marde so I will just post this here.
The "PROOF!!!" (according to David) is non other than Mike Gamberg's wife, Linda (Young) Gamberg. Apparently. SHE is the now-named bartender who came through with this little nugget. Anyone remember a Linda Young being interviewed? I'd like to see WHEN she said this. I'd like to know WHEN she bartended and at WHICH bar she saw Marde and Sue all lovey dovey.
This is not proof that Marde and Sue were sleeping together. If it was proof, it would be provable.
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Post by jmo on Nov 6, 2017 0:12:20 GMT -6
Mike and Linda were married in Aug of 1966 so they would have been married for 15 years in 1981. I find it hard to believe that the ONLY person to come forward with information on Marde and Sue sleeping together is a bartender and it's Mike Gamberg's wife.
Because that's not fishy as hell.
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Post by jmo on Nov 6, 2017 0:55:49 GMT -6
David has NOW CONFIRMED that Mike Gamberg's wife is the one who gave Johnny and Dana a ride home. She was around 35 and married to Mike but, didn't come forward before because "she didn't want to get Kathy in trouble" because Kathy was sleeping with Dana?
Unless....Dana and/or Johnny were actually narcing and feeding Linda drug information? What other reason would Linda be in a car at all with Johnny and Dana? What kind of vehicle did Linda drive? Anybody see her drop off the boys? Spang perhaps?
Or, maybe David's just playin'. But, why bring Gamberg's wife into all this?
Gamberg made a good Avery Shreiber back in the day. I wonder if HIS legs appear too short for his body. haha No wonder everyone is keeping their friends close and their enemies closer. Whew.
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Post by kmik on Nov 6, 2017 6:45:02 GMT -6
JMO, I think 28 is saying that he can now confirm (after rereading all the info) the story that the bartender told of Marty "shagging" Sue. He said that Sue took 2 typing classes at FRC - one with Marilyn and Mike's wife - the other class Sue took with Marty and the bartender. So I guess since Mike's wife remembers the bartender, Marty, and Sue taking a class together (meaning the bartender knew exactly who Sue and Marty were) they must have been "shagging". There is just so little mention of Sue going to FRC at all. This is all I see from the PON list:
MARSHALL, BETTY Instructor FRC, had Sue Sharp in two classes <BRADLEY>
REID, RUSSELL FRC instructor, Sue started one class but dropped out after 9/18/80 <BRADLEY>
The Smartt's didn't move to Keddie,CA until July 1980. Sue moved to Keddie from Quincy in November 1980 after Shelia went off to Oregon to have the baby. I can understand Sue dropping out of Russell Reid's class after 9/18/80 - and wonder if she dropped the others as well since there is very little mention of her attending school. Sue seeing Marty wouldn't be a surprise at all - but it coming to the surface after all these years would be. And it still would not prove he was in 28 killing anyone.
Who knows? The bartender story (if true) is questionable. Kathy B. couldn't take the boys home so she called her mom, who called her mutual friend (the bartender), who picked the boys up later between 10-11p.m. So was this the same bartender from Pioneer Bar who said Karl Spang was not in the Pioneer Bar that night? How would she have known who was in the Pioneer Bar that night if she was in Keddie between 10-11pm (maybe later)? Why would anyone say they kept the story a secret because of Dana's affair with Kathy when the police already knew the story?? And the forum has known for years that Dana and Kathy had been seeing each other! So who would have been surprised?
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Post by jmo on Nov 7, 2017 0:59:10 GMT -6
Thanks Kmik! It sure sounds fishy. I don't see how he/she "didn't want Kathy to get into trouble". Good grief. A murder investigation and that's what they worried about? What odd people.
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Post by karis on Nov 10, 2017 9:53:11 GMT -6
My question is why can't Mike solve this case without Vidocq? Or can he. He has all the information at his fingertips. What he doesn't have I'm sure Dmac can fill him in on. After all, he is the expert on this case. He has wrapped this case this up and put a bow on it for Mike. If this case not being solved is due to corruption and cover ups in the PCSO then why didn't Mike and Greg allow Vidocq to investigate this case in 2010? If they truly believe the Marty Theory then what do they need the VIDOCQ Society for? Can they not solve it themselves? Why would Mike need to ask Dmac anything when he has Greg Hagwood (not to mention Sheila and the rest of the family)?
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